Looking for 223 Trainer build advise

[SeattleDude]

Hi guys. I am getting info a PRS competition and long range shooting.

Currently just about done with build in 6.5CM and looking to build trainer rifle in 223 in the future.

6.5CM build is Defiance Action with HawkHill Marksman profile barrel finished at 26 and Hellfire brake, Timney Calvin Elite, MPA BA Competition Chassis, Vortex Viper PST FFP Scope.

It would be great to build another one just like it in 223, but I had to save up, sell stuff, and I could barely afford the build lol.

What can you recommend? I wanted this trainer to have same trigger so maybe go with R700 action? or save up again and do it "right"

Does 223 build need to have muzzle brake or not?

This is hard decision to make. Or should I just shoot the hell out of this 6.5CM build and if I burn out barrel so be it?

Thank you! Help a newbie out.

 

[Conrad]

Practice like you play, get another 6.5 CM barrel. Additionally, if you're trying to save more $/round and time, for Short range and positional work, find a load with cheaper bullets and maybe even a powder that is easy to throw by volume. Part of training is getting feedback from recoil....223 is too forgiving for that. You could also get a 308 trainer barrel for additional recoil practice, and longer barrel life. 223 "trainer" is an excuse to get a fun gun to shoot, nothin wrong with that, but I think there are better ways to train.

 

[arm017]

How many rounds do you shoot per week on average?

 

[SeattleDude]

How many rounds do you shoot per week on average?

Not much at all. I shoot 3 gun matches pretty regular and USPSA. So I am just getting into long range precision rifle... and your question pretty much answered my question. It will probably take a long time to shoot out 6.5 barrel =)

 

[Citius7]

Sell ur 6.5. Buy a TL3 shouldered 6.5 creed or whatever for Comp and pay for a 223. Same contour and length. Same concept at the above poster but instead of blowing out ur creed barrel shoot 223. Same scope trigger weight chassis. Easy. Cheaper than 2 guns ever would be

 

[TheOE800]

TL3 with two barrels and bolt heads would have been my advice for a ground up build.

 

[cageli]

While it is doable, switching barrel/bolt head back&forth, plus scope adjustments, would be lots of hassle to deal with. I have been there, now I just have multiple rifles. Just practice with your primary rifle, I see no issue in that at all. Of course, if this is just a lead to get another toy, go for it man!

 

[IndianaRem5r]

You do not need a brake on a .223. My .223 has less recoil than my .243 with a brake. I love my .223 and shoot it more than my other two (larger cartridge) rifles combined.

 

[JamieD]

I have always had a .223 trainer to match my .260. Through the mid 2000 and on. I also use to loan it to students when the rifle they brought to our school broke down. I picked up real fast that by removing their equipment and recoil, I could teach them twice as much, twice as fast. Last year we had 7 on the line.. It works so well for training and will get to 1000 years (although it does not hit real hard).

If you are going all in, make it an exact twin to your match gun - It is a trainer for your other rifle. You don't want to pick up your match rifle and it feel or handle different in any way. It is an expensive investment, but I actually shoot my .223 more than anything else. It is just too much fun.

Good luck and if you do it, let me know your afterthought and weather you think it was worth it. I think the answer will be yes.

Take Care,

JamieD
Wolf Precision
Synergy Arms

 

[Sheldon N]

This is hard decision to make. Or should I just shoot the hell out of this 6.5CM build and if I burn out barrel so be it?

Thank you! Help a newbie out.

Start with shooting out the 6.5 barrel. By the time that barrel's gone you'll know more about what you want and whether a 223 trainer is something you need.

A 223 trainer starts making a lot more sense when you shoot 50-100+ rounds per week on average. My thought on the cheapest way to get a 223 trainer for your setup is to run switch barrel. Buy a 223 bolt from Defiance ($350), a Criterion "remage" barrel, barrel vise, action wrench, go gauge and barrel nut wrench. You could then swap and headspace your own barrel back and forth on the same chassis with no gunsmithing needed.

The economics of a trainer like that work out to breakeven on cost after you've shot 2k rounds for the initial setup, and then for every barrel afterward the breakeven is way better, pays for itself every 1k rounds or so. If you know you're going to be shooting out multiple barrels then its definitely the way to go.

 

[SEMO Shooter]

Different strokes for different folks. I agree with JamieD.

My match rifle is a .260 with a surgeon action. I recently had a .223 trailer built with the same barrel profile, same trigger, and same stock, but on a trued Remington action. The Remington action reduced cost by about $800.00. I'll end up shooting the .223 trainer more often and more rounds per year than the .260.

 

[steve123]

Practice like you play, get another 6.5 CM barrel. Additionally, if you're trying to save more $/round and time, for Short range and positional work, find a load with cheaper bullets and maybe even a powder that is easy to throw by volume. Part of training is getting feedback from recoil....223 is too forgiving for that. You could also get a 308 trainer barrel for additional recoil practice, and longer barrel life. 223 "trainer" is an excuse to get a fun gun to shoot, nothin wrong with that, but I think there are better ways to train.

To the OP, unless you really want a 223...

I live 15 minutes from being able to shoot as far as I want and find medium range shooting boring, even with my little AR/223. Some guys across the country don't have access to a long range spot without a day's trip or their local range is limited to 200-300 yards. I suppose I could see using a 223 then. Honestly in that case I'd use a 22 rimfire for practice. Heck, I practice positional, etc with a PCP air rifle in my yard. Those platforms teach me all I need to know about learning wind. As friends watched yesterday I was hitting a 15" plate at 500Y often with my 22 rimfire, now that's fun! The wind was down so the 150, 200 and 300Y steel was too easy.

I practice true long range with the same rifle and cartridge I use on match day. I need to know the intricacies of that rifle and what happens in the wind with that cartridge as well as checking dope, etc. For me using a 223 would take a away from the experience or say past 400Y anyway. I don't want to get used to a cartridge that has nearly twice the drift as the usual fantastic long range 6mm, it gets in your head approx where to aim after a while with the usual or at least that's the goal.

 

[nfoley]

I just had Owens Armory build me up a 223 trainer off a Remington 700, and am very happy I did. I will be writing up a little report on it soon but it is extremely accurate, and recoil of the 223 with no brake feels very similar to my match rifle (6 dasher with brake). I have shot mine out to 600 yds with 75g ELD-M, and even in some gusty 5-10mph winds did much better than I would have guessed.
For me this was important because I shoot a fair amount and really like the idea of saving the match barrel!

 

[MarinePMI]

Tikka Varmint (in .223) + KRG chassis. Done.

 

[Papagallos]

The Remington action reduced cost by about $800.00.

Don't mislead him into thinking that buying a new Remington 700 action and having it trued is going to save him an approximate amount equal or somewhat equal to yours. Many times it's best to buy a lower priced custom action such as a Stiller.

 

[SeattleDude]

I honestly dont have anything close to shoot past 500 yards. My range is 100-200-300 and another range is 500 yards. To shoot past that I think its about 2-3 hour drive and that's where prs matches usually are. So realistically only have 300 yards to work with for training with occasional 500.

 

[Servo93]

If cash is tight I'd just shoot the 6.5 as much as you can. Having two guns you can't afford to practice with make no sense.

My advice for a trainer;
I have a 223 I built as a part trainer and part long range critter getter. Same setup as MarinePMI. It gets shot more then the rest of my rifles because it's cheap, easy to load for and very fun.
Although, In my experience I feel a 308 trainer is more valuable. I have an AI AT so I have the luxury of fast barrel swaps on the same rifle and a 308 will teach me so much more about my position and how I'm managing recoil. My 223 weights 14.5 pounds with the suppressor, it has no recoil and shows me much less.

 

[SEMO Shooter]

Don't mislead him into thinking that buying a new Remington 700 action and having it trued is going to save him an approximate amount equal or somewhat equal to yours. Many times it's best to buy a lower priced custom action such as a Stiller.

I did not mislead. I clearly stated my 260 was built on a Surgeon action and my trued Remington 700 was $800.00 less.

 

[ratton]

I have a Tikka T3 Tactical in a KRG X-Ray Chassis. It is one one the most accurate and comfortable rifles I own. The 223 has a 1/8 twist, which is great with heavier bullets. You can't go wrong with a Tikka.

 

[Red_SC]

My main rifle has a Badger action and Sentinel stock. My trainer is a .223AI with a truer Remington action and a Manners T5. I haven't spent as much time on it as I should, I bought 4 AI mags that have been absolute junk, and got annoyed and haven't gotten better mags. The rifles handle differently, 60 degree vs 90 degree bolt throw and the thumbhole stocks feel different, but it is still valuable training.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I can't figure out if ".223 trainer" is a paradox or oxymoron. The biggest joke I ever experienced was training/qualifying on the GAU-5 converted to shoot .22 LR.

 

[346ci]

I bought a .223 trainer for these reasons, cheap to feed and my fiancee can shoot it with no recoil. I have the T3X Varmint, only changes were I had the barrel cut down/threaded. While I may change the stock later on, it works great and shoots bug holes.

 

[Sogan]

I bought a .223 trainer for these reasons, cheap to feed and my fiancee can shoot it with no recoil. I have the T3X Varmint, only changes were I had the barrel cut down/threaded. While I may change the stock later on, it works great and shoots bug holes.

Who did you have perform your thread/cut and what crown did you go with?

 

[loudandproud]

I built mine as a .223 AI and I love it. I shoot over 150 rounds a week with it and i would destroy my 260 doing that and could never afford it. Awesome gun... 223s are so fun.

 

[346ci]

Who did you have perform your thread/cut and what crown did you go with?

Josh at PVA, he decided the crown. I knew what ever it was would shoot..

 

[Forrest84]

I thought it was silly getting a 223 trainer but I can shoot it in club matches competitively and train while spending less than half on Ammo and saving barrel life considerably. Also it gives my girl a fun gun to learn on too.
So it’s not really that odd of a concept. Now if you need to spend les money up front and have limited training time yeah just build one gun and shoot it as much as you can

 

[Dthomas3523]

I honestly dont have anything close to shoot past 500 yards. My range is 100-200-300 and another range is 500 yards. To shoot past that I think its about 2-3 hour drive and that's where prs matches usually are. So realistically only have 300 yards to work with for training with occasional 500.

For 300 yds and in, you could always save up and buy a vudoo .22 barreled action. Drop it in your mpa chassis (only 2 bolts, it’s quick). With either a second pst, or mount the same one. Once you know your zero for both, you just set the turrets back and shoot a couple rounds to tweak zero.

You’d be looking at about an 1800-2k investment for barreled action and trigger depending on buying new or used.

After that. You’re looking at 10cents per round for stuff like sk standard plus ammo. I am able to easily make impacts on 4” plates at 300 yds with my vudoo setup.

The only thing you’d be lacking in training is recoil and that’s not that big a deal as a braked 6.5 is pretty tame and you can fill in your practice with some 6.5 for that.

Oh, and the barrel will last you the rest of your life.

Moderate investment now = huge savings in the long run

 

[Jaman]

Tikka Varmint (in .223) + KRG chassis. Done.

Unbelievable!! I am already thinking about a 223 trainer. And this is the advice I find.

 

[MarinePMI]

Unbelievable!! I am already thinking about a 223 trainer. And this is the advice I find.

LOL! At least I'm consistent. (I will say though, you will have to have the Varmint threaded if you want to run a brake or can). If the new .223 CTR's ever show up, then that'd be a moot point.

 

[Jaman]

LOL! At least I'm consistent. (I will say though, you will have to have the Varmint threaded if you want to run a brake or can). If the new .223 CTR's ever show up, then that'd be a moot point.

The funny part is I don’t even have a first rifle and I am already mentally preparing for the need for a second “trainer” rifle for the fun stuff

 

[MarinePMI]

It's a sickness. And there is no cure, only therapy. Trigger time.

 

[Jaman]

LOL! At least I'm consistent. (I will say though, you will have to have the Varmint threaded if you want to run a brake or can). If the new .223 CTR's ever show up, then that'd be a moot point.

And on the note of using a can, did you set up a trust, or title the can to you personally?

 

[MarinePMI]

These days you're better off submitting your form 4 as an individual (if your state allows suppressors). A trust these days, now requires every person on the trust, to be fingerprinted and back ground checked every time you add an NFA item to the trust. A major PITA that is not worth it if you have a choice.

Check out the suppressor sub-forum; a lot of information there by folks a lot more schooled in that than I. (Plus, we don't want to hijack this thread too much).

 

[Jaman]

Thanks.