Not sure if this is right place for this but looking for some thoughts on who has good stock for a Belgian pup please...
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Looking for a Belgian pup...
- Thread starter texas_vet00
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I'm assuming you think you want a Malinois? If so, are you SURE you want a Malinois?
From your username I'll say that if you're in TX I probably still know at least one outfit that can hook you up. But I'll ask again if you're sure you want one.
I have been thinking that a Malinois would be my next dog. Please elaborate. First hand knowledge is so much better than the crap I read on the web.
I know a woman here that raises them. pm me if your interested.
Bogey, you ask that as if you know something. Id guess youve worked with them. I would ask the same if someone wanted a wolf. Bright, beautiful, powerful. My male drug a pitbull that out weighed him down the street and chewed his ass up badly w/o a scratch, they are also hardheaded, stubborn, and relentless when they set their mind on something.
I discussed them with a breeder that I've dealt with for high drive GSDs. They said the typ Malinos was like a intense GSD.
No personal exp.
I would like to know more about them. I've been wanting to get one. a guy I worked with breeds them with German shepherds I've thought about getting one of those. I have had two Gsd one had to be put down other one I think she had heart attack
I have owned and trained Malenois in bite work. Most are hyper and don't make a great house pet. Best for someone with experience handling a high drive dog with the time and place to give it lots of exercise. Great police and defense breed.
I have a beautiful medium drive GSD, it takes little time to keep her happy let her outside to chase birds four or five hours, toss her the frisbee a few times and it's all good. If I got a little extra time she likes to run along side the gator usually about 22 mph for the first mile, 17 MPH for the second mile, Then she will settle into a 10 mph lope that seems to take very little effort for her to maintain--- but by then I usually let her go for a swim in the lake to cool down then go lay in the shade for a while.
A high drive dog, well if you need one thats what you need. Just make sure it is what you need, and that you know what that means.
A high drive dog, well if you need one thats what you need. Just make sure it is what you need, and that you know what that means.
It is true. There is such a thing as "too much dog". And, believe me having too much dog to handle isn't an easy thing to "just deal with"
Not to be a dick but that is a medium drive dog? That sounds almost lazy. I question what everyone's dog experience here is. Having had German short hair pointers i will say that their drive and endurance is absolutely amazing. Everything i have read says that the German shepherd and Belgian have less energy that what i am used to. From what i read the Belgian is more compatible with other dogs and is why i would pick the Belgian as i would like another short hair.
my last short hair did not lay down/take a nap during day light hours for 11 years. I shit you not and i can have my wife chime in. One day mid-day she layed down on the patio. Wife and I gave each other a look like "WTF, is the puppy stage finally over". Dog passed away 8 days later. Anyone with short hair pointer experience will know what i am talking about.
German short hairs are a wonderful hunting dog but they are generally bred as a foot hunters dog. English pointers bred for horseback trials are much bigger running and more difficult to live with. The more narrowly bred animals are for a specific purpose the more difficult they become as a general family animal. The narrow breeding for specific traits will ignore what might be described as civilized behavior in favor of the specific behavior. This is not the animals fault it is the result of narrow breeding for the chosen behavior.
PPDs have a very specific use which requires breeding for narrow behavioral patterns. Someone who is considering a dog for this purpose would do well to PM Bogey for his input.
I don't know the OP, what his experience is, or what he's looking for in a dog. So the entirety of my post is not necessarily directed at him. Rather, I post this as many people read these things or their google-fu leads them here. And I believe I may have some insight to add which may -- or may not -- be helpful.
Well I do agree that, depending on how it was bred, be too much dog. Obviously some people have a lot of experience and know what they're doing. But the reality is many, many, people get into dogs that they just end up giving up. And it is a low down dirty shame.
We had a high-drive GSD bred from champion European schutzhund lines. That dog was way too much dog for her by herself. And would be too much for many guys who think they're ready for that. Again, I understand no one likes to hear that. And many won't hear it. And that there are plenty of people who are right for that kind of dog as well. The dog didn't have hip trouble -- GSDs have a lot of health issues that may or may not affect individual dogs -- but did die in my arms of hemangiosarcoma despite thousands and thousands of dollars on top of the line medical treatment and chemotherapy (that's nothing -- I've had a dog who had tens of thousands worth of MRIs, CAT scans, and spinal surgery).
As a result of that heartbreak we've often thought of getting a BM. The ones we've looked at -- from a breeder that breeds them for work, not as a regular house pet (my wife is Israeli and in the diamond business so our dogs have a job) -- have been as described above: an amped up GSD. At my age I'm not sure I have that much run or throw left in me. High energy. High prey drive. The dogs I encountered also had a high stranger aggression. Not all dogs of any breed or even the same litter have the same drive and disposition. They may be up and down whatever comparative scale you're contemplating. So proper screening and evaluation is essential to get what you're looking for in any dog, in my opinion.
These days we rely on a Fila Brasileiro. Which is, in my opinion, much much "more dog" than a GSD or BM. So I absolutely would NOT recommend that breed to anyone unless they had a specific need for a high security working dog. They are trainable to be sure, but not in the same way as a GSD or BM. I mention them mainly to highlight that there are various working breeds. Some better known than others. And many have been bred for various tasks that may differ from other working dogs. So an assessment of what the dog's mission will be is helpful.
If I needed a dog to leave my side and track and engage someone running away -- and to do that outside of my sight -- I would definitely consider a BM for that. For protecting me, my family, and property, in situ, I personally consider a Fila superior. Years ago I did consult with a police department's head dog trainer (all Belgian Malinois, even then, due to health issues with GSDs) and his home and family protection dog was a Fila. Which he considered superior. For THAT objective. Still, NOT a dog for most people (and yes, a Fila was bred to be a tracking dog -- but you usually have to go with them as they are reluctant to leave your side for a long distance).
And yes, it may be a little apples and oranges with Filas and BMs when talking about what is "too much dog". A BM, unless bred and trained for security work, might only be too much dog in the sense of its high energy and prey drive. Whereas a Fila can be an inherently dangerous dog which has an innate distrust and aggression towards strangers and is banned in many countries. But Malinois ARE often bred and trained for various security tasks and can be "too much dog" beyond just their exercise needs. At least based on my experience. The Malinois I encountered would scare the bejusus out of most people. Like walking up to the window of a K9 unit and tapping on the glass. Instant snarling bonkers. I'm simply of the personal opinion that most people are just not ready -- physically AND mentally -- for a dog like that.
Again, there ARE people who are. And I'm sure some are on this forum. But I would say most people, even "tough guys" are not really ready for a dog like that without a lot of experience and/or training. I think a lot of "accidents" (make that incidents) happen where people are hurt. And I think a lot of dogs end up getting severely abused by "tough guys" who are clearly able to beat the crap out of the dog with a club. But are completely unable to control the dog without resorting to that. THAT is a prima facia case of TOO MUCH DOG FOR YOU!
The dog in my avatar was 173 of lean muscle and bone (we've all had friends with that Rotti that weighed 130 and was built like a sausage; this is not the same sort of thing) who could outrun, and out turn, our GSD. And he was a freaking beast. I can't emphasize enough what 173 pounds of charged up, independent thinking, muscular dog is like. It's just not the sort of thing you just pick up from a backyard breeder and think you're going to walk him around the park and show off to your buddies without problems. That is a walking liability. And an amped up BM bred and trained for protection, pursuit, whatever, is also not something for the inexperienced. If someone coming across this is looking for a security dog and isn't already experienced with a HARD working dog, you not only need to strongly consider getting a different kind of dog (giant schnauzer makes a great guard dog that is probably much more manageable for a regular guy or family), but getting, assuming you can't be deterred, the dog professionally trained; and getting YOURSELF squared away with a dog like that as well.
I would love to say "few things piss me off more than", but I'm easily pissed off. So let me say one of many things that pisses me off is people getting a dog they like the idea of, but are ill prepared for the reality of, and then dumping the dog. People can dump a normal pit bull at a no-kill shelter and it will easily pass a socialization test and will be put up for adoption (though it may be stuck there for the rest of its life because a lot of SOBs abandon pit bulls). Well a Fila, for example, bred for high Ojeriza, getting dropped off even at a no-kill shelter, is probably going to be put down because it will appear to the workers there to be completely anti-social, dangerous, and unadoptable. We wanted to go on a short trip and tried to board the dog in my avatar. We tracked down a kennel that boarded police dogs. The owner rejected our dog. Said too dangerous (and some other things). So if you (again, not you OP, I don't know you -- just people in general who may happen to read this) have any decency please don't get HARD working dog you aren't committed and able to keep for life.
Finally, I apologize for getting preachy on everyone here. I love animals. I love dogs. And, frankly, I probably like dogs more than people. I've never, for example, had a dog cheat me, lie to me, or betray me. People? Yes. Dog? No. And there are a lot of bad things that happen to and by dogs that are, ultimately, usually the fault of stupid and/or shitty people who got the wrong dog. Or should not have gotten a dog at all. Especially a working dog.
Rant over.
Well I do agree that, depending on how it was bred, be too much dog. Obviously some people have a lot of experience and know what they're doing. But the reality is many, many, people get into dogs that they just end up giving up. And it is a low down dirty shame.
We had a high-drive GSD bred from champion European schutzhund lines. That dog was way too much dog for her by herself. And would be too much for many guys who think they're ready for that. Again, I understand no one likes to hear that. And many won't hear it. And that there are plenty of people who are right for that kind of dog as well. The dog didn't have hip trouble -- GSDs have a lot of health issues that may or may not affect individual dogs -- but did die in my arms of hemangiosarcoma despite thousands and thousands of dollars on top of the line medical treatment and chemotherapy (that's nothing -- I've had a dog who had tens of thousands worth of MRIs, CAT scans, and spinal surgery).
As a result of that heartbreak we've often thought of getting a BM. The ones we've looked at -- from a breeder that breeds them for work, not as a regular house pet (my wife is Israeli and in the diamond business so our dogs have a job) -- have been as described above: an amped up GSD. At my age I'm not sure I have that much run or throw left in me. High energy. High prey drive. The dogs I encountered also had a high stranger aggression. Not all dogs of any breed or even the same litter have the same drive and disposition. They may be up and down whatever comparative scale you're contemplating. So proper screening and evaluation is essential to get what you're looking for in any dog, in my opinion.
These days we rely on a Fila Brasileiro. Which is, in my opinion, much much "more dog" than a GSD or BM. So I absolutely would NOT recommend that breed to anyone unless they had a specific need for a high security working dog. They are trainable to be sure, but not in the same way as a GSD or BM. I mention them mainly to highlight that there are various working breeds. Some better known than others. And many have been bred for various tasks that may differ from other working dogs. So an assessment of what the dog's mission will be is helpful.
If I needed a dog to leave my side and track and engage someone running away -- and to do that outside of my sight -- I would definitely consider a BM for that. For protecting me, my family, and property, in situ, I personally consider a Fila superior. Years ago I did consult with a police department's head dog trainer (all Belgian Malinois, even then, due to health issues with GSDs) and his home and family protection dog was a Fila. Which he considered superior. For THAT objective. Still, NOT a dog for most people (and yes, a Fila was bred to be a tracking dog -- but you usually have to go with them as they are reluctant to leave your side for a long distance).
And yes, it may be a little apples and oranges with Filas and BMs when talking about what is "too much dog". A BM, unless bred and trained for security work, might only be too much dog in the sense of its high energy and prey drive. Whereas a Fila can be an inherently dangerous dog which has an innate distrust and aggression towards strangers and is banned in many countries. But Malinois ARE often bred and trained for various security tasks and can be "too much dog" beyond just their exercise needs. At least based on my experience. The Malinois I encountered would scare the bejusus out of most people. Like walking up to the window of a K9 unit and tapping on the glass. Instant snarling bonkers. I'm simply of the personal opinion that most people are just not ready -- physically AND mentally -- for a dog like that.
Again, there ARE people who are. And I'm sure some are on this forum. But I would say most people, even "tough guys" are not really ready for a dog like that without a lot of experience and/or training. I think a lot of "accidents" (make that incidents) happen where people are hurt. And I think a lot of dogs end up getting severely abused by "tough guys" who are clearly able to beat the crap out of the dog with a club. But are completely unable to control the dog without resorting to that. THAT is a prima facia case of TOO MUCH DOG FOR YOU!
The dog in my avatar was 173 of lean muscle and bone (we've all had friends with that Rotti that weighed 130 and was built like a sausage; this is not the same sort of thing) who could outrun, and out turn, our GSD. And he was a freaking beast. I can't emphasize enough what 173 pounds of charged up, independent thinking, muscular dog is like. It's just not the sort of thing you just pick up from a backyard breeder and think you're going to walk him around the park and show off to your buddies without problems. That is a walking liability. And an amped up BM bred and trained for protection, pursuit, whatever, is also not something for the inexperienced. If someone coming across this is looking for a security dog and isn't already experienced with a HARD working dog, you not only need to strongly consider getting a different kind of dog (giant schnauzer makes a great guard dog that is probably much more manageable for a regular guy or family), but getting, assuming you can't be deterred, the dog professionally trained; and getting YOURSELF squared away with a dog like that as well.
I would love to say "few things piss me off more than", but I'm easily pissed off. So let me say one of many things that pisses me off is people getting a dog they like the idea of, but are ill prepared for the reality of, and then dumping the dog. People can dump a normal pit bull at a no-kill shelter and it will easily pass a socialization test and will be put up for adoption (though it may be stuck there for the rest of its life because a lot of SOBs abandon pit bulls). Well a Fila, for example, bred for high Ojeriza, getting dropped off even at a no-kill shelter, is probably going to be put down because it will appear to the workers there to be completely anti-social, dangerous, and unadoptable. We wanted to go on a short trip and tried to board the dog in my avatar. We tracked down a kennel that boarded police dogs. The owner rejected our dog. Said too dangerous (and some other things). So if you (again, not you OP, I don't know you -- just people in general who may happen to read this) have any decency please don't get HARD working dog you aren't committed and able to keep for life.
Finally, I apologize for getting preachy on everyone here. I love animals. I love dogs. And, frankly, I probably like dogs more than people. I've never, for example, had a dog cheat me, lie to me, or betray me. People? Yes. Dog? No. And there are a lot of bad things that happen to and by dogs that are, ultimately, usually the fault of stupid and/or shitty people who got the wrong dog. Or should not have gotten a dog at all. Especially a working dog.
Rant over.
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I guess a medium drive dog is a dog that is not lazy, but is not a big PITA to integrate with a normal family. I have never claimed any experience beyond simply having a dog so I'm not quite sure how you aquired the need to question my experience. I got my GSD from BM ImportGSD at the time I told him I was looking for a low drive dog. He had a nine week old litter and recommended a black pup (which he ended up keeping and naming "Hank the Tank".) My wife wanted a pup with at least a bit of brown, and so being a happily married man I ordered Roxy even though Import GSD said that she was not a "low drive" dog.
I'm pretty happy with the dog. She is friendly with all my guests, and when we go on trips she does not give our house sitter any trouble. SImple things like "sit" "lay down" she learned in minutes. The hardest thing to teach her was to play with 3 and 5 year old kids without "herding" them. She still likes in when all the kids are in one area so she can watch them all easily but I have her where she knows not to push the kids who are not where she wants them to be.
So now if my son and his friends are playing in the back yard, and my daughter and her friends are playing in the front yard she has to run around the house to keep am eye on all of them.
One thing I like that I did not really train her for but just seems natural for her is if I take her for a walk with out a leash is if she wants to explore something she will look at me to see if it is ok before she will run off. This comes in quite handy with all the damm skunks we have around.
Sounds like a great dog matey. A perfect fit for you and your family. Selective breeding lines and individual attributes really make a difference. Different breeders breed for different traits.
That said, I still don't think anyone should think "hey, those Filas look neat -- I'll just ask for a low drive model!"
That said, I still don't think anyone should think "hey, those Filas look neat -- I'll just ask for a low drive model!"
Bogey, weren't you a dog handler? If I'm remembering that right, surely you've worked with them right? I assume you've got some strong thoughts here. Perhaps I was too quick to preach in my rant above. But I always worry when people ask about working breeds. The BMs I've been exposed to were all bred and trained to be willing to bite. So maybe I have a biased perspective and my worries are overblown. Though the activity level still can't be for everyone.
The OP is probably thinking "what's up this Cartman guy's arse? I asked for a breeder referral not a lecture!" Sorry, it's the Internet. And a public forum. Everyone gives their two cents -- and then some. But as I indicated above, it wasn't directed at you personally. Many people from all over come across these threads. Hope you're not bothered.
The OP is probably thinking "what's up this Cartman guy's arse? I asked for a breeder referral not a lecture!" Sorry, it's the Internet. And a public forum. Everyone gives their two cents -- and then some. But as I indicated above, it wasn't directed at you personally. Many people from all over come across these threads. Hope you're not bothered.
Cartman wrote a freakin' book, but he's right. There are some breeds whose safe management requires a lot more spine on tbe part of the owner. There are a bunch of "Cliffs Notes" sites for starry-eyed wanna-be dog owners that break down what I'll call "breed tendencies," and they tend to red-flag certain ones. I've never owned a Malinois, but it's said that they're pretty much tornadoes on a flimsy string. I've got a Cane Corso, and bending her to one's will and getting her to be a team player is a task and a half. Like some people just shouldn't own and carry firearms, some, principally the weak-willed and the overly aggressive type-A testosterone patch jerks, shouldn't own hard-ass working dogs. It just isn't a good fit.
that is 100% true, I was in utter amazement at my GSP natural ability, but there were times I wanted to throttle her for stupid shit. I had to tell myself and my wife almost daily "they were bread for that"
PS. My last GSP followed me on a 20 mile ATV ride. I was kind of pissed as my brother didn't hold her in camp until we were out of sight and hearing. about 2 miles down the road I look over and there she is running along side the trail at about 12 mph, I thought, well maybe this will wear her out. If she slows down I will put her on the ATV with me. She never slowed, Had lunch in the woods by a lake, she played in the water the whole time and then did the 20 miles back to camp. I thought for sure she would crash, but only slept about 6 hours that night.
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I know that when the the term "not to be a dick" is seen the thought "fuck you" come in to one's mind. But you took my comments the wrong way. I was trying to say that each persons perspective is different. What one person thinks is the perfect dog/gun/car is not to another. I would like to hear other peoples experiences. I think it sounds like you have a great dog and in some ways I am jealous.
The GSPs I have had were hyperactive mother fuckers and basically uncontrollable with out a shock collar. Great field dogs but family dogs there are better if you lack patience. I have never owned a Malinois or a German Shepard but I have been around a few and they seem a lot more laid back. Aware of what is going on around them but don't have the need to investigate every damn thing 200 times a day.
F.W.I.W...
Having a performance bred Fila, or BM as a 'pet' is not my idea of an enjoyable canine companion. They are a loaded gun on 4 legs, and should be treated with the same respect. That respect warrants a level of vigilance that the majority of 'pet' owners would find exhausting. Beyond that, the degree of potential liability precludes them for 'pet' status, in favor of being a working tool in the hands of a knowledgeable handler...
Having a performance bred Fila, or BM as a 'pet' is not my idea of an enjoyable canine companion. They are a loaded gun on 4 legs, and should be treated with the same respect. That respect warrants a level of vigilance that the majority of 'pet' owners would find exhausting. Beyond that, the degree of potential liability precludes them for 'pet' status, in favor of being a working tool in the hands of a knowledgeable handler...
Interesting, thanks for sharing mag. Not surprising tho imo. From what I've read wolves are fckn monsters, probably ain't a lot of dogs out there that could tangle with one and come out on top. Completely different beast from a coyote, I've read some who witnessed coyotes encountering wolves and apparently it wasn't pretty lol. Damn glad we ain't got wolves down here.
Those GSD's sound like well trained mature dogs. A GSD, just like other breeds, can be hell until they mature and that takes about 1.5 to 2 years for them. I can speak from my limited experience that a dog deciding it's status is No.2 in charge and the wife is further down the pecking order is a problem and hard to overcome.
We rescued a 10 month old BM and he was wild as a buck when we got him. He had no manners or training. The key is to channel their energy to something positive and give them a job. We've had him a few months and he is night and day different. Previous owners both worked long hours and he spent most of his time in a kennel. He was not socialized with other dogs although he was fine with people. We have since introduced him to our lab and they are great friends. It took some time and patience but he now goes to the ballpark, tractor supply, feed store, ect. and interacts with other dogs just fine. My wife trains dogs mainly using the e-collar and he has responded very well to that training. His favorite thing is to track my son in the woods. We send my son out to hide and tell "Trip" to search and he will go find him and sit until my wife or I catch up. In less than a week he learn sit, down, heel, place. In 2 weeks he was doing extented sit, down, and place and distance sit, down, and place. These dog are crazy smart and need to be stimulated mentally and physically. If you have the time and patience, I think a Maligator is a great choice. Socialize him/her early and often to dogs, human, environments, noises, ect.
Hey Gents, sorry to have pulled the pin and then disappeared. I was tied up at work, training dogs as it happens. Cartman , 2Afan, and several others hit all the points.
FWIW my opinion is based on having been a police K9 officer, training S&R dogs, and spending 4yrs in Afgh running working dog kennels. I've worked with several hundred Mals, Dutchies, and GSDs. I've lost track of the number of dogs I've "caught" during protection work, but I know I've taken many thousands of bites. There were days where I'd catch 75 dogs/ 4-500 bites before lunch. I've seen the best and worst of working dog drives and outside of big PDs with well structured K9 programs a Mal can simply be too much.
Keep in mind that I'm basing my prejudice off of working dogs, but most people select Mals because they think they want the drives. The issue is that a sound working dog uses its brain while in drive. Mals flip a switch and go "all balls no brains". I've owned over 30 personal dogs, one of which was a Mal. To this day it's the only dog I've ever voluntarily gotten rid of.
Cartman, mad props for taking on a Fila and utilizing him well. Those fucking things make Mals look like Labs.
FWIW my opinion is based on having been a police K9 officer, training S&R dogs, and spending 4yrs in Afgh running working dog kennels. I've worked with several hundred Mals, Dutchies, and GSDs. I've lost track of the number of dogs I've "caught" during protection work, but I know I've taken many thousands of bites. There were days where I'd catch 75 dogs/ 4-500 bites before lunch. I've seen the best and worst of working dog drives and outside of big PDs with well structured K9 programs a Mal can simply be too much.
Keep in mind that I'm basing my prejudice off of working dogs, but most people select Mals because they think they want the drives. The issue is that a sound working dog uses its brain while in drive. Mals flip a switch and go "all balls no brains". I've owned over 30 personal dogs, one of which was a Mal. To this day it's the only dog I've ever voluntarily gotten rid of.
Cartman, mad props for taking on a Fila and utilizing him well. Those fucking things make Mals look like Labs.
Based on his size description alone, I'd wager that maggot's wolf hybrid tangled with one of the many 'shitbull' variants or scatterbred mongrel monstrositys that have become so prevalent these days. No surprise there that the dog showed no ability/gameness, as any real "bulldog" blood it did have was very likely diluted to the point of irrelevance. Heck, my lil' 47 lb. mt. cur has tangled with 'shitbulls' upwards of twice his size, and were summarily put in their place. That's not braggin' on my lil cross bred huntin' dog, but simply illustrating how many of these generic 'shitbull' pitbulls make look the part, yet do not retain the elusive trait of gameness/ability that has defined real "bulldogs" for the last century, +.
Real pit "bulldogs" are at the top of the canine gladiator world for a very, very good reason.
One other tidbit. There are generalities for all breeds, but understand that not every dog will share the breed's generalities. I have owned and trained quite a few German Sheps along with other breeds. The Shep I own now, does not share ANY of the standard generalities of the breed. He is the most stubborn dog that I have ever worked with. I can deal with him since I did competition and bite training for several years, but a "typical" dog owner would most likely given up and gave him to the pound because of his difficult personality.
Some dogs, need an educated, strong and persistent handler, especially lines breed for work like German Sheps and Malenouis.
Some dogs, need an educated, strong and persistent handler, especially lines breed for work like German Sheps and Malenouis.
Great looking dog. Years ago I worked a male out of Hungary and he was phenomenal. I'd love to see a picture of the Czech bitch.
I spent some time catching a monster Czech male that was well over 100lbs with forearms the size of a man's. He'd have "housed" me several times if he weren't such an overall softie.
No doubt. My dad has a little blue pitbull that bullies the 2 labs around even though they both have 30+ lb on her. But regardless I think there's something to be said for the violence of action in truly wild animals. I've had a little raccoon of all things scare me worse than any big bruiser hog when it got the drop on me and charged me in the dead of night outta nowhere, probably rabid tho cause I ain't ever seen shit like that lol.
Walking a deer track one time, the 2 labs ran up ahead of us and got ambushed by a coyote, jumped out the bushes at em when they started investing his hide. They turned tail and ran faster than I ever seen even tho they were both 2x the size of the damn thing. Admittedly our pit wasn't there and I think she actually might a squared off with it tho idk. Only time I've been up close to a live yote that wasn't in one a our traps.
Walking a deer track one time, the 2 labs ran up ahead of us and got ambushed by a coyote, jumped out the bushes at em when they started investing his hide. They turned tail and ran faster than I ever seen even tho they were both 2x the size of the damn thing. Admittedly our pit wasn't there and I think she actually might a squared off with it tho idk. Only time I've been up close to a live yote that wasn't in one a our traps.
What you say has merit, but doesnt apply in this case. Arrow chewed up a big mean assed boy with relish. The thing is is that a wolf is more like a 'proto dog' sort of like a Neanderthal is a proto human, but with a higher level of intelligence than a dog. I watch people walk their dogs on the street and they just kind of put their heads down and comply. When I try, and I do mean 'TRY' to walk one of the wolves, they have much keener senses than any dog, and hear and see EVERYTHING. A truck backfiring two blocks away sends them up a wall. While they doe wear the tag "Canis" thats were the similarity stops. This is my 5 month old Black Phase Wolf female. 55 lbs at 5 months and can run with her mother already.
As David K mentioned, in a litter thre can be great variation. Of my 7 cubs 4 were high content wolf and 3 lesser. its visible to those who know how to make the distinction.
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I don't buy that. Probably a function of your current location and lifestyle. It's a huge commitment (assuming you don't want to screw it up). If you had more time and lived in the country you might feel differently. Now it looks like you live in a trendy urban hipster area (I'm certainly not saying you're like that). Walk down the street one day with a Fila trying to get hold of anyone who made eye contact (can be a big trigger) and you would have the cops and animal control called to make your life miserable. Different area -- you're whole outlook might be different. Then again, you may be familiar enough to know you would have to develope a whole new training method and might have already concluded it's just too much of a hassle. Unless you just meant "pussy" about the liability thing. Yeah, that's a real issue. But again, different environment and you might feel differently. We did actually had to buy a new house in a new city due to animal control harassment brought on by neighbours with a vendetta for our first Fila.
I'm just throwing this out there, but many here seem to be talking about "high energy/high activity" canine's with a lot of onboard "high responsibility". And I'm not knocking that at all. What I am suggesting though, is for those who aren't in the day-to-day business of security (location or human) they might want to look at other "protective" possibilities.
Such as the Hungarian Kuvasz.
Or the Tibetan Mastiff.
I'm not suggesting that either of those are THE answer, but I am saying from some experience that they could very well be in contention for a more "family/security/laid-back" lifestyle. Done right, of course. And this too is no small endeavour.
Such as the Hungarian Kuvasz.
Or the Tibetan Mastiff.
I'm not suggesting that either of those are THE answer, but I am saying from some experience that they could very well be in contention for a more "family/security/laid-back" lifestyle. Done right, of course. And this too is no small endeavour.
All dogs have there own personality, I have three male Rottweiler's and they all have different personalities
My current situation is indeed bullshit. I won't even have a Golden up here because I couldn't offfer it the open spaces it would need. My house in AL is well suited to pretty much any dog I could want (except the damn Mal that jumped 6' fences). I'm looking forward to having real dogs again when I move home.
I did a good bit of research on Filas about 15yrs ago when I was buying that house. I was a cop and my wife was alone a good bit when I was on night shift. I made the personal judgement that even though she and I were both pretty dog savvy, a Fila was just more responsibility than I felt we could take on. I also really enjoy entertaining and having tons of folks over for BBQ and pool parties. It simply wasn't a good fit for me.
In hindsight maybe the Fila would've killed or maimed a few of my ex-wife's boyfriends
Yeah, you definitely can't have people over like that. Run a livestock hot wire around the top, inside, edge of the fence next time you have a jumper. Mmm, maybe someone needs to tell Trump about that!
Your comments have gotten me thinking about the lifestyle changes we've made to accommodate those dogs. Wow. It's actually quite a bit if you reflect on it. Well my hat's off to you for thinking carefully about it before hand. Many don't. Just because you "can" do something, doesn't mean you should.
Your comments have gotten me thinking about the lifestyle changes we've made to accommodate those dogs. Wow. It's actually quite a bit if you reflect on it. Well my hat's off to you for thinking carefully about it before hand. Many don't. Just because you "can" do something, doesn't mean you should.
I eventually did go to a livestock fence, after I found the Mal a ranch to run around on. I had to use the cattle fence to deter my American Bulldog mix from ramming the privacy fence with her head and breaking holes. She eventually just bullied her way through that too (with a livestock transformer).
Say Mtncreek, you ever heard a catching a rattle snake, chopping it into sections or what have you, and using that to bait traps for yotes? Never heard of it or tried it, just wondering. Supposed to be specifically only rattlesnakes that work..
Sure it has merit.
Just look at the drive behind your 'proto' dog fighting another canine. If your 'wolf' is indeed "wild", any fight drive displayed is to establish dominance.
Consider the unwritten rules of the animal world, you'd note that the vast majority of critters, canines included, fight only as a last resort. Wild animals don't fight for fun. The potential survival risk involved with fighting is not undertaken lightly. And once dominance has been established, the fight ends. Beyond that, animals have developed so many different kinds of displays and posturings that preclude an actual physical altercation. If a fight can be sorted via display/posturing, then both parties can avoid potential life threatening injuries. Simply stated, fighting is counter intuitive to survival, and only done as a matter of last resort...
Now, enter a real "game bred" bulldog. For that last century +, man has selectively bred this animal for combat. The psyche of the animal is not to fight purely for dominance, but rather the challenge of battle. A bulldog has been bred to enjoy combat, and physically adapted to endure it. To the point, bulldogs have been bred for the 'un-natural' trait of gameness, which manifests itself most amazingly in combat, even when losing, or at the brink of death. A real bulldog does not know the word "quit"...
Whereas in the animal world, fights usually only last as long as they have to, thereby increasing the likelihood of survival. And given the fact that a dead animal can't pass on its genetics, survival is mandatory! IN short "quitting" as soon as possible in is the best interests of both combatants. That's why wild animals, wolves included, would rather "quit" and live to fight another day (retaining the ability to breed), than to willingly participate in combat which might end in death...
As stated above, due to man's intervention, the trait of 'gameness' has literally short circuited 'natural' survival instinct in a bulldog. They fight because they LOVE it, and their 'gameness' is shown when continuing to battle, despite the outcome. This is polar opposite behavior to that of a 'wild' animal, and the reason why the trait of 'gameness' needs to be specifically bred for in order to retain in a bulldog. More importantly, that is why that trait is lacking/non-existent in almost every other breed....wolves included.
That said, if wolf/hybrids were supreme canine gladiators, people would be pitting them, over bulldogs. Now, apply that same logic toward any performance breed. A wolf/hybrid won't 'out-herd' a kelpie, anymore that it will 'out-track' a coonhound. And it dang sure ain't gonna out-fight a real bulldog. Just think, if wolf/hybirds could, all the other working breeds on the planet would have been developed for naught. And we all know that is not the case...
You do have beautiful animals and wish you all the happiness with them! Was just making light of the fact that, because your dogs have a certain % of 'pure' wolf blood in their genotype, that alone doesn't allow them the ability to compete at tasks in which specific working breeds have been purposely bred to excel at.
That's just how it is, and why your "shitbull" fight story is not a measure of much, other than to illustrate that you've got a hair triggered, dog aggressive animal to deal with, for the rest of its life. I can see there being a 'cool factor' to owning them, reckon that makes it worthwhile?
All your verbiage shows how little you know: Both about wolves and about mine in particular. And you should learn to read for content, not just what you want to hear. I wont waste more time or energy attempting to educate one who already knows it all, other than to say, you dont.
Thanks, the original owner got him from Black Jack Malinois in Mississippi. I looked them up online and facebook and they seem to be a reputable breeder.
Bro, that is a BEAUTIFUL Mal, and I've seen hundreds of them. If his temperament jives with yours then you're a lucky owner. Issues off leash with distractions are to be "expected".
Get him dialed in on-leash, marking his behavior (good and bad) and praising, rewarding, or correcting as necessary. The leash keeps him honest and doesn't allow him to get too far off track before you rein him in. How well he's proofed off-leash comes down to how much time and work you can put into him. Keep in mind that at a certain level you're always going to be competing with his drives, the drives that Mals are bred for.
We had good results by using the "Clear Signals" training methods where they were appropriate. NO single method works all the time with all the dogs, but it's a solid base for fairly and humanely working with high-drive dogs. There used to be some good videos of that method floating around the interwebs.
Thanks, he is a beautiful dog! His temperament is really good...luckily my wife stays home with the kids and she does obedience dog training so he gets plenty of mental and physical activity. We have a good friend who is a retired handler from the Marines and he recommended this Mal for us. Someone contacted him needing to rehome the dog and he recommended our family. He has been a great addition. My wife uses the e-collar for obedience related training and other methods for agility, field trials, scent work, ect. He heels really well on leash and he does pretty well off leash. Of course, all off leash training is done on our property. Antime he is in public, he is on a leash. Regarding the e-collar, his working level is an 8 out of 100. I can't feel the "stim" of the e-collar until around level 18. My wife says it holds him accountable to the obedience commands once he fully understands what they are and what is expected of him. She doesn't use the e-collar on any dog until she is confident they understand what is being asked of them. How do you feel about e-collar training? We are always looking to learn from others and open to new training methods.
It sounds like you are doing the E-collar correct. As I stated above it was the only thing that saved my German short hair from going to a new home. I was at my wits end. I knew that she knew what I was saying. Sit, come ,.... etc. But she also knew that to be disciplined she had to get with in arms reach. The collar I used had tone,tick, zap. I would also follow that order and other than the first 15 minutes of her figuring out I didn't need to be at arms length anymore I rarely had to zap her. I would guess other than the first 15 mins we only reached zap stage about 10 times over the next 8 years before she passed. 90% of the time just the tone would do the job, and that was only if she didn't follow the command the first time which she did 75+% of the time after just a couple days. I was amazed at how fast she learned it. I always thought she was smart. But while contemplating the step to the E-collar in my mind I thought I would have to basically electrocute her because she was so fucking stubborn.
We use the e-collar for our lab as well. She has been training on it for about 8 months and she rarely has to use it other than when she is super distracted. She has a very strong prey drive and occasionally we have to use it when she is in a scent and we want her to come. She and the mal have really gotten to be big budies. If he get the tennis ball, she just gently takes it from him!
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