Rifle Scopes Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

[Nickoglock2]

Many have been telling me to get a mueller APT for my new MKII trainer, but seeing the rifle has already gone over budget, I have decided I can afford something better. The problem is I cant find anything I am sure of.
It must have a mil dot retical, I 1/4 moa exposed nice target turrets, 4-14 or around that power range,Enough elevation to get a .22lr out to 200 plus yards. and side focus would be great!!It must at least have some form of AO or focus, And be proven quality,and not from china!
I currently have a Bushnell elite 3200 and it is horrible at 50 yards
25 is impossible with it.
Thanks for any help
Nick

 

[fdkay]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

Since you took China out of the equation, you have limited your choices. Not many budget scopes out there that meet your requirements.

What is your budget?

Over 500? Under 500?

Why the restriction to 1/4 moa turret? Do you want a mil-dot?
The APT is actually a very fine scope for the money, you will be hard pressed to beat it under 200 for the intended purpose.

My suggestion: Falcon Menace 4-14x mil/mil. Excellent training scope with all the features you need to learn FFP and matched turrets.

 

[Nickoglock2]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

I would like to stay under $400, The reason I want 1/4 adjustments is because I already use MOA and I have never used a MIL adjustment scope, 1/8th moa adjustments are not for me, to many clicks and usually ends up cluttered and confusing for tactical shooting., I suppose I could reasearch and retrain myself to use mil adjustments though.

The mil dot retical is a must though because I want to be able to range, and use for hold overs , ect.

 

[42769vette]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

look at the nitrex tr2

 

[Nickoglock2]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

Falcons are from china, and seem to have a higher failure rate than most. The menace looks great, and has everything I want, as far as i know, but I have read tons of bad things about them.

 

[Nickoglock2]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

Natchez is the only place I have found them, and they had little or no TR2s in stock

 

[jpspeeddemon]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44mm has all features you want for $399
or
Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x40mm for $299

 

[Nickoglock2]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

The Vortex vipers are nice, covered turrets though

 

[Nickoglock2]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

I think im just going to stick the the Mueller, It seems everyone loves them and id say its about perfect for the .22

 

[George63]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

I take it your 3200 elite is non AO?, I like the AO versions at 25 yds, not many others AO scopes adjust that low

 

[fdkay]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nickoglock2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Falcons are from china, and seem to have a higher failure rate than most. The menace looks great, and has everything I want, as far as i know, but I have read tons of bad things about them.
</div></div>

I know they are from china, however, they offer everything you could want in a training scope.
I haven't seen "tons" of bad things about them, but they have had QC issues.
What they do have is two excellent reticles, FFP and matching turrets. The glass is very good for the price range. When the turrets are cleaned up, the clicks are quite firm and audible.

Another excellent option is the rear focus SS, but it does not have matching adjustments.

Try this exercise with a mil/moa scope. Use a blank sheet of paper with a dot in the center. Walk an unknown distance, put your target up. Shoot at the dot, Make your corrections without going downrange.

I happen to be a big fan of Mueller optics, they a good folks with a quality product that they stand behind. I have just moved beyond SFP mil/moa scopes.

 

[Nickoglock2]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT





<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nickoglock2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Falcons are from china, and seem to have a higher failure rate than most. The menace looks great, and has everything I want, as far as i know, but I have read tons of bad things about them.
</div></div>

I know they are from china, however, they offer everything you could want in a training scope.
I haven't seen "tons" of bad things about them, but they have had QC issues.
What they do have is two excellent reticles, FFP and matching turrets. The glass is very good for the price range. When the turrets are cleaned up, the clicks are quite firm and audible.

Another excellent option is the rear focus SS, but it does not have matching adjustments.

Try this exercise with a mil/moa scope. Use a blank sheet of paper with a dot in the center. Walk an unknown
distance, put your target up. Shoot at the dot, Make your corrections without going downrange.

I happen to be a big fan of Mueller optics, they a good folks with a quality product that they stand behind. I have just moved beyond SFP mil/moa scopes. </div></div>


Would I be better off to go Mil Mil? I would have to relearn it, but maybe it would be better in the long run?

 

[quickdraw17]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

+1 on the SS. I have a 10x on my .22 trainer, it's priced right and it does everything I need it to do. Granted, it doesn't have variable power, but I found that I really didn't need it. As for mil/mil, if you can do moa/mil, then you should be able to pick up mil/mil pretty fast. Matching turrets and reticles make things a lot easier.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nickoglock2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Would I be better off to go Mil Mil? I would have to relearn it, but maybe it would be better in the long run?
</div></div>

There is nothing to "relearn".
matching your adjustments to reticle subtensions just makes sense and once you do it, you'll wonder why it took you so long.
Does not matter if it is mil/mil or moa/moa.
The biggest hurdle for most folks is trying to convert what their scope tells them too inches.
Measure with your reticle, make adjustments.

It does not matter if the range is 10 yards, 432 meters or 1.5 miles. If you measure 1.5 mils adjustment required, you make 1.5 mils adjustment on the scope. It is a constant, linear measurement.

FWIW, I had my falcon on a savage 10PC, which is a fairly lightweight .308 with NO problems whatsoever.

 

[BravoSector1]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

Super Sniper for fixed power or Vortex for variable.

 

[Nickoglock2]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nickoglock2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Would I be better off to go Mil Mil? I would have to relearn it, but maybe it would be better in the long run?
</div></div>

There is nothing to "relearn".
matching your adjustments to reticle subtensions just makes sense and once you do it, you'll wonder why it took you so long.
Does not matter if it is mil/mil or moa/moa.
The biggest hurdle for most folks is trying to convert what their scope tells them too inches.
Measure with your reticle, make adjustments.

It does not matter if the range is 10 yards, 432 meters or 1.5 miles. If you measure 1.5 mils adjustment required, you make 1.5 mils adjustment on the scope. It is a constant, linear measurement.

FWIW, I had my falcon on a savage 10PC, which is a fairly lightweight .308 with NO problems whatsoever. </div></div>

Now you have lit this subject in my head, I want a MIL/ MIL I never thought of it like that, I always used MOA because when I was young with a 22 I didnt even know what mil was, so I got use to seeing things in Minutes.
Now I have to come up with some new scope options. I still would rather not pay $400 for a Falcon. Unless they are easy to warranty. I will be looking into other options now.
Thanks for making me see this correctly.
Nick

 

[gjantzer]

Re: Looking for a step up from a Mueller APT

I'm a big fan of the Mueller APT. I prefer it over my $350 Weavers. Look around for a few minutes for a used APT. One thing you will notice is that they sell used for about $150.....they only cost you $161.45 brand new. Few other scopes hold value this well. People like the Mueller scopes and it shows in the resale.