Looking for advice on a long range hunting rig from the reloading perspective

[Mike402]

Hey guys, I'm running a FN SPR bedded by SAC in .308 right now w/ a Bushnell DMR scope & all is good. Rifle is an absolute tack driver w/ 42.4gr of Varget behind 178 AMAX's in Lapua brass.

Only issue is that this rig is too heavy for hunting (or I'm just getting too old). Looking for a standard weight hunting rig w/ enough juice to take down whitetail, hogs, and elk.

At this point I'm leaning towards the Savage 11/111 Long Range Hunter Savage Arms

I like the adj muzzle break & factory cheek rest. Here is where I need help

1) Should I get it in 300WM or 7mmRM? I'll be primarily handloading, so wanted to get opinions on availability of components in either, and which you would choose in today's environment and why. As I understand it, the 7mm has higher BC, more efficient bullets, but shorter barrel life. The 300 has more knockdown power (makes bigger holes) on game, but comes with more recoil (mitigated by muzzle break I'm thinking). For my intended purpose, the knockdown power would only matter for Elk. I thought about 30/06, but didn't think the slight increases over .308 were worth the expense/effort of doing all this.

2) Scope choice. I was reading that braked magnum guns are extremely hard on scopes. Any recommendations on mid range scopes (say under $800) in the 3x-12x range that would be: fairly light, able to withstand the battering, repeatable, and able to hold zero? If the answer is no, you have to spend more money to get all that, then fine, just looking for the straight scoop.

Thanks in advance for any feedback. I really respect the collective knowledge in this community.

 

[Big Z]

I'm a 7mm slut and am a fan of leupold 3.5-10s w/ M1s.

 

[Mike402]

a fan of leupold 3.5-10s w/ M1s.

Oh Man, don't tell me that, I just sold that exact scope on this forum about a month ago to fund the bushy

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Well, here's another vote, that's exactly what I have on my 700 chambered in 300WM. 3.5X10 Leupold. Your second question is not a concern. Everything but really cheap jap scopes should hold up to recoil. As far as cartridge, I once would have been a big fan of the 7Mag. But not since I have owned a 300 (which was such a deal), I thought I might even rebarrel to 7Mag, but forgot about that, once I got into it. In my opinion, the 300 can easily do anything a 7Mag can do and more. It is a great cartridge. So is the 7Mag, but the 300 is greater. BB

 

[roggom]

For the game you are hunting a 280, 280AI. Would be right in between your 308 and the mags.

Sure the 300 and 7 mag can punch out far, but you have to ask yourself if you need all the fuss with the brakes etc. They are frickin loud.

If between the two mags, I prefer the 7.

 

[Mike402]

For the game you are hunting a 280, 280AI. Would be right in between your 308 and the mags.

Sure the 300 and 7 mag can punch out far, but you have to ask yourself if you need all the fuss with the brakes etc. They are frickin loud.

If between the two mags, I prefer the 7.

I've pretty much settled on that Savage, and unfortunately its not chambered in .280.

I hear you about the noise factor, but this would only be a rifle I would zero & shoot at game, so I'll live with it. I have a set of sport ears I would hunt with.

Wondering if you would be so kind as to expand upon why you prefer the 7mm

 

[XTREM HTR16]

What bullets are you planning on using? To me that matters more than headstamp.

 

[roggom]

I like the 7 simply because of the higher BC and less weight/sectional density.

208 amax BC 648 sd 313

168 (7mm) ABLR BC 652 SD 353
175 (7mm ABLR BC 672 sd 364

So you can get just as flat and equal penetration with a lighter bullet = less recoil. Sure the 300 will have more energy at equal range, but at most hunting ranges 300-500, it really isnt necessary.

Now all of these rifles overlap each other in power and performance. I am not saying the 7 out performs the 300, but are you really looking to punch out past 1000 on large game? To me its just a matter of efficiency.

I have a 7 mag and it is pretty darn flat, its a Tikka and with a limbsaver it is not so bad on recoil.

 

[Mike402]

What bullets are you planning on using? To me that matters more than headstamp.

Honestly I don't know enough about these two calibers to make an informed decision (pretty much the reason behind my post)

I did settle on the 178 AMAX in .308 since it shoots well out of my rifle, and has decent terminal performance. If I go with the 300, I would probably consider starting with the 208.

 

[JusAguy]

Well, this is my 1st post, but a topic I'm well acquainted with.....

Choosing btw a 7mm and a 300 mag is really all about your preference. Yep, the 300 Win mag has bigger/better in most things (including BC projectiles) - it's been hashed/re-hashed a million times. I've had both and prefer the 7mm's, but it really depends on how far I'm shooting and at what.

You can't go wrong with either.... In my neck 'o the woods, I have better OTC choices with 7mm Rem Mag if I needed some and didn't have anything loaded up....

Personally, I chose a 7mm/300Win mag wildcat and it should be finished this Spring (2015).

 

[RobertB]

I have 2 lighter weight rifles for hunting. Ones a custom shop win 70 in 300 wm and the other is a custom 7stw. The stw is really light with a bias brake and it does not kick at all. I was super surprised. The 300 has a little to it though. I like both. They both hit hard and fly well. And I can reload or buy ammo for both. A 7 RM is a great choicetthough. I stay away from savage myself. They shoot great but had too much trouble. Good luck.

 

[Clark]

8.9 pounds with scope, sling, bipod, and ammo.
270 pre 64 Win M70, featherweight taper 22" barrel, Bordon Rimrock stock.
This is overkill for deer at 400 yards.

10 pounds with scope, sling, bipod, cheek rest, and ammo.
7mm Rem Mag, Rem 700, #3 taper 26" barrel High Tech Specialties stock Limbsaver recoil pad.
This is overkill at 500 yards for deer.

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

Mike,

I'm going to be contrarian here and recommend you buy the rifle in 30-06.

I dont believe you've reloaded for the 30-06 or have much experience with it because of this line from your post "I thought about 30/06, but didn't think the slight increases over .308 were worth the expense/effort of doing all this."

What you have to remember is that most commercial 30-06 offerings on the market are loaded down to accommodate rifles/actions from the turn of the century when the cartridge was invented. The 30-06 cartridge has a SAAMI "max pressure" of 58,000psi, however cartridges based on the same case (270win, 280Rem, etc) have 65,000psi as their "max pressure". Most commercial ammo is loaded below the 58,000psi threshold.

Here are a couple of my 30-06 loads that will be going hunting with me this year:

178gr AMAX
57.5gr H-4350
Korean Mil-Surp Brass
Tula LRP
3.30" COAL
Vel = 2,980 - 3000+ fps from my magneto speed chrono

185gr Berger VLD
57.7gr H-4350
Korean Mil-Surp Brass
Tula SRP
3.34" COAL
Vel = 2,910 ft/s

This was fired from my 26" Savage model 112 in a laminated stock.

The loads above are accuracy nodes. I did not see pressure signs until about 59-59.5gr H-4350. By then velocities were well over 3,000ft/s w the 180s and 3080 or so with the 178s. The recoil of the loads above is completely manageable and i can shoot those loads all day in a match.

Do you think those velocities are "slight increases over 308 not worth the expense/effort?

Will those velocities work for your application?

Do a search on here for 30-06 loads in the reloading dept forum and there are a plethora of 30-06 loads that will more than do you well.

Best

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I had a LRH is 7mm that couldn't hold a 5" group at 100 yards. Savage wouldn't do anything about it. I'd look elsewhere. The Remington long range and sendero are much better options.

 

[mkollman74]

Buy a tikka in 6.5 swede or 300wsm... I hunt with both cartridges, and of the two, I actually prefer the swede. Both are great though.

 

[Victor N TN]

You can walk into any hardware store in the country and get 30-06 and maybe 300 WinMag. When you start with custom calibers, it gets harder to find if you leave home without it.

For shorter ranges (inside 300 yards) our WallyWorld has had some VERY good Tasco scopes 3X9X50 for $40. While I have other rifles and more expensive glass. That's what I carry on my hunting rifles.

I know others will fuss about my comments. But good luck with what ever you choose.
Victor

 

[Powermac]

I have a weakness for the 7's so i would personally have gone with a 7 RM between those two, the 300 will have a bit more energy and a bigger bore so it will most likely seem a bit more effective at the longer shots, but both will take elk out to considerate ranges using a good bullet, shot placement is the key any way.
But to match the ballistic performance of the 7 you will need to use some serious bullets, at high velocity and the 300 will have significantly more recoil.
Although i think the BC of the Ablrs posted above is a bit on the optimistic side, it gives you a fairly good example.
A 7 RM with a 180 berger hunting or 175 ablr etc, will do you good out to 8-900 yards if you venture beyond that then maybe the 300 is a better choice for the larger game.

As for choice of rifle the Savage retails for 1100? for that price you could get a Tikke T3 lite put into a Manners Mcs-t or similar for the same price, still meeting all your criterias and being of superior quality, so to me at least i would not even think about another gun for the price range.

 

[steve123]

Tikka T3 Hunter 6.5x55 JRTA351 on sale!

IMO Savage = fail

With the money you save - Bushnell LRHS 3-12x44 for the scope.

300WM kicks like !@#$ in a light rifle. 7RM isn't too bad. I've owned a couple different belted mags and ended up having to buy a Innovative Technologies belted magnum size die to get the area right above the belt sized back down far enough to close the bolt. Nice tool but stupid having to do so in the first place. I'm not buying a belted mag again!!!

 

[Mike402]

Mike,

I'm going to be contrarian here and recommend you buy the rifle in 30-06.

I dont believe you've reloaded for the 30-06 or have much experience with it because of this line from your post "I thought about 30/06, but didn't think the slight increases over .308 were worth the expense/effort of doing all this."

What you have to remember is that most commercial 30-06 offerings on the market are loaded down to accommodate rifles/actions from the turn of the century when the cartridge was invented. The 30-06 cartridge has a SAAMI "max pressure" of 58,000psi, however cartridges based on the same case (270win, 280Rem, etc) have 65,000psi as their "max pressure". Most commercial ammo is loaded below the 58,000psi threshold.

Here are a couple of my 30-06 loads that will be going hunting with me this year:

178gr AMAX
57.5gr H-4350
Korean Mil-Surp Brass
Tula LRP
3.30" COAL
Vel = 2,980 - 3000+ fps from my magneto speed chrono

185gr Berger VLD
57.7gr H-4350
Korean Mil-Surp Brass
Tula SRP
3.34" COAL
Vel = 2,910 ft/s

This was fired from my 26" Savage model 112 in a laminated stock.

The loads above are accuracy nodes. I did not see pressure signs until about 59-59.5gr H-4350. By then velocities were well over 3,000ft/s w the 180s and 3080 or so with the 178s. The recoil of the loads above is completely manageable and i can shoot those loads all day in a match.

Do you think those velocities are "slight increases over 308 not worth the expense/effort?

Will those velocities work for your application?

Do a search on here for 30-06 loads in the reloading dept forum and there are a plethora of 30-06 loads that will more than do you well.

Best

Very thought-provoking post. You're right, I have zero experience loading the 30-06, but have fired it before. I have a LOT of 178gr AMAXs that I have stockpiled for my .308, so it would be great to be able to use them in a hunting rifle as well. I'm getting 2650 @ 58k psi out of my rifle now. Looking at the Hornady 9th edition manual, I am seeing the 178AMAX topping out at 2600/2700 for 30-06 w/ all loads listed. Now I know Hornady is uber-conservative, but I figured what would be the point of dropping $1,500 for scope/rifle to basically have the same performance? Never took into consideration the delta between original chamber pressure capability vs modern.

I also have a surplus of 4064 that I'm not using, so hopefully that combo could work for me.

 

[BC 6.8]

For the hunting you are describing, I would go with a .270, .280, or 30-06. If you really want to get into the magnums and are dead set on the Savage LRH, then I would go with the 300 WSM. It's a more efficient cartridge that is easier to tune and will be easy to load with 165 gr bullets for whitetail with laser trajectory and 180+ gr bullets for elk and hogs for more punch. It is short action and a little shorter overall with a little less recoil than the 7 RM or 300 WM. The only downsize is you will only have 2 rds in the mag and one in the pipe vs 3 rds in the mag and one in the pipe with the others.

 

[Mike402]

I stay away from savage myself. They shoot great but had too much trouble. Good luck.

I had a LRH is 7mm that couldn't hold a 5" group at 100 yards. Savage wouldn't do anything about it. I'd look elsewhere.

Buy a tikka in 6.5 swede or 300wsm...

As for choice of rifle the Savage retails for 1100? for that price you could get a Tikke T3 lite put into a Manners Mcs-t or similar for the same price, still meeting all your criterias and being of superior quality, so to me at least i would not even think about another gun for the price range.

Tikka T3 Hunter 6.5x55 JRTA351 on sale!

IMO Savage = fail

Yikes I had no idea Savage had such a bad rep out there. Glad I posted on here, getting some good info!

 

[Mike402]

I've owned a couple different belted mags and ended up having to buy a Innovative Technologies belted magnum size die to get the area right above the belt sized back down far enough to close the bolt. Nice tool but stupid having to do so in the first place. I'm not buying a belted mag again!!!

Another good piece of info. So I can infer from this post that a cartridge like the 30-06 will be easier/less finicky to load than a belted magnum?

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

Mike,

Any rifle you buy will have it's detractors. No rifle/riflemaker is without problems...reference the massive trigger recall by Remington.

What ever rifle you buy, get it in the 30-06 caliber. Make sure the rifle comes w a 26" or longer barrel & that the barrel twist is 1:10.

Yes, the 30-06 will be easier to reload than magnum calibers, will have less recoil, and will have barrel life in the 4-5,000 round range vs 1,100-1,500 for the 300WM.

Also, while you can load the 30-06 w powders more suited for the 308 (4064, Varget, 4895, etc) you will be using powders with too fast a burn rate to give you the optimal performance out of your 30-06.

Look for the following powders to use in your 30-06

H-4350,
IMR-4350,
AA-4350
RL-19
RL-22
4000MR
Superformance
W780
H4831/H4831sc

All those powders will give you the long range performance you are looking for out of the 30-06.

One last thing. Ditch the Hornady manual. Use manuls put out by powder manufacturers or Lyman. The bullet makers limit are ultraconservative in their recommendations.

 

[steve123]

Another good piece of info. So I can infer from this post that a cartridge like the 30-06 will be easier/less finicky to load than a belted magnum?

To me yes, only the sizing aspect. Non issue with standard bottle neck cartridges.

Let me back up a little. On the second reloading cycle some of the brass was getting a little hard to close the bolt, maybe 10%. It wasn't till the third firing and sizing when I started having more problems with the belted mag brass. Some people don't seem to have these problems???

 

[Mike402]

Thanks for all the great info - especially Tx. I'm going to schlep around to all the local gunshops & see what's in stock. Leaning towards the 30-06 now, just seems more practical & the fact that you can get ammo everywhere helps too.

 

[wapiti16b]

It may be harder to find factory ammo ( Nosler ) but the 280 AI would be my first choice in a light to medium weight barrel contour of no less than 26"s and if you reload it's very easy to load and is much more kind to your barrel and your shoulder . I 've shot 30/06s in many guns ranging from M1 to Winchester carbine M-70 bolt guns and they were all pretty accurate and easy to load and find ammo for but if you reload I really don't think they hold a candle to the 280AI . All that said my go to gun for Elk is my Sako 300WM with 210 grain VLDs just in case my old legs can't get me there in time for a close to medium range shot. It only hurts when you miss !

 

[mercracing]

Looking for advice on a long range hunting rig from the reloading perspective

To answer your second question. Vortex. I have the crossfire II 4-12 on a .338WM .300WM and a 7mmWby. Never had a problem with recoil knocking the scope around.

As for question one, you say you want to only sight it in and take it hunting. Then go big or go home buddy. 300WM all day!

 

[Mike402]

Even if the gun doesn't shoot for crap you can buy a good aftermarket barrel and get it put on for less than $500. You really can't get into a custom rifle any cheaper than that. As for a lower cost scope you may want to consider a vortex viper HS LR in 4-16 x50mm.

This was EXACTLY my thinking. I figured it would be a luck of the draw if I got a shooter from the factory. I'm a fan of their accu-trigger, and I like the way the rifle looks, so I know the gamble is in the barrel. I'd be happy with 1 moa to be honest with you & save the bughole shooting for my .308.

I was also leaning towards one of the Vortex models based on what I've been hearing, but still need to do some more research.

 

[Mike402]

I shot the savage LRH in 7mm mag, and with factory win ammo. I thought it shot just fine. I liked the cheekpiece. I thought the rifle was a great value long range rifle. I only shot it at 300 yds, but I wasn't disappointed, considering it was someone elses gun and he was shooting cheaper gray box win ammo.

So I'm assuming it had the muzzle brake on. How was that experience? Too loud? Could you live with it? Or would you recommend a non-braked gun?

 

[stealthgoat]

My old deer lease in Tennessee was down in a hollow, steep hills with 150 yards max shot, so Win M70 Classic Feather Weight 6.5x55 Swede & Swaro PH 1.5-6x42 scope (or M70 pre-64 in 30'Gov) was perfect. I carried the FN A3G with heavy US Optics on a couple long hikes, and I grew to appreciate the featherweights more.

So I got chance to hunt bigger northern deer in a beanfield 700+ yard very possible, and all of a sudden "I needs to get me a long range magnum". Enter a M70 Laredo 7mmMag Long Range Hunter in McMillan A5 with US Optics. I really love the Laredo 7mm, it's a great shooting rifle. But reality is that the 308 or 6.5x55 kills deer quite dead, and rumor is 30'Gov (30-06) has accounted for a few deer too over the years And a lot easier to load than a belted magnum....

My 8 point stepped out at 52 yards, and 7magnormous didn't kill it any deader than my my 6.5 swede would have

I love the Laredo but I didn't need it. If your SPR is really too heavy, I also vote for something like 30-06/280/6.5.

 

[Drifter™]

Hey guys, I'm running a FN SPR bedded by SAC in .308 right now w/ a Bushnell DMR scope & all is good. Rifle is an absolute tack driver w/ 42.4gr of Varget behind 178 AMAX's in Lapua brass.

Only issue is that this rig is too heavy for hunting (or I'm just getting too old). Looking for a standard weight hunting rig w/ enough juice to take down whitetail, hogs, and elk.

How much does your current rig weigh, and what is the target weight for a new setup?

I ask because you could probably tweak your existing setup to meet your needs. You could save ~0.5 to 0.75 lbs by switching to a lighter weight scope (such as a Leupold or March), and another ~1.5 to 2 lbs by changing to a lighter weight stock (such as a McMillan Edge / carbon fiber). A good 2-pt padded sling with flush cup swivels on the side of the stock would make it easy to carry.

As an example, 2.5 lbs lighter with what was a 13-lb setup would feel substantially different.

You already know that your rifle will shoot, what load it likes, etc. Use the money saved to upgrade the scope and stock, and sell the takeoffs here of the Hide.

 

[308220]

Id settle for another 308. You are already familiar and comfortable with the caliber. Why change? Now days people think you need a different caliber and load for every type of hunting. Varmint calibers/bullets for varmints. Deer calibers/bullets for deer. Elk calibers/bullets for elk. Its really a waste of time and money. Pick a good medium and go with it. People killed Elk for decades with pumpkin balls. Will a 175gr SMK not kill a varmint since its not a "varmint" bullet? Or kill a deer since its not a hunting bullet? You get the idea. All this "I need more power!" is a product of analizing too much numbers and not enough shooting.

The performance gains youll get with a 30-06 is very minimal and youll never see it in the field. In real life scenarios. And you get more recoil. Sound like a winner? No. Can you look at a dead deer and say "Wow! That was killed with a 30-06!". No. A deer shot with a 308 or 30-06 is a dead deer. Same scenario with a 300wm.

The 300wm shoots flatter than the 308, and comes with considerable more recoil. Are you really wanting all that recoil for a gun that you'll shoot maybe a handful of times in your life past 500 yards at live game? Anything farther is not your typical every day hunting. And for that kind of hunting id suggest a 338 Lapua/Edge and call it a day. And get your retina reattached later on.

As for 7mm's I cant really comment because I have no shooting experience with them.

Good luck with your numbers game.

 

[Mike402]

How much does your current rig weigh, and what is the target weight for a new setup?

I ask because you could probably tweak your existing setup to meet your needs. You could save ~0.5 to 0.75 lbs by switching to a lighter weight scope (such as a Leupold or March), and another ~1.5 to 2 lbs by changing to a lighter weight stock (such as a McMillan Edge / carbon fiber). A good 2-pt padded sling with flush cup swivels on the side of the stock would make it easy to carry.

As an example, 2.5 lbs lighter with what was a 13-lb setup would feel substantially different.

You already know that your rifle will shoot, what load it likes, etc. Use the money saved to upgrade the scope and stock, and sell the takeoffs here of the Hide.

Here's a pic of my setup:



Between the DMR, Spuhr mount, ACI, level indicator & bipod i'm at about 15+ pounds right now. I have humped the hills out here in the desert shooting coyotes & jackrabbits with it, and it just gets to be too much by the end of the day. Maybe twenty years ago when I was a lean and mean Marine, but too much pounding dirt and boot & ut runs has taken a toll on my back. I'm looking to top out at about 9-10lbs fully loaded.

The ironic thing is that I sold a Leupold 3.5-10x M1 on this forum to fund the Bushnell. Not interested in changing the stock as I had it painted & bedded. So this one will stay as it is. Besides, I enjoy shooting it off the pod too much to change it.

Appreciate the input, but I'm sold on buying a whole new rig with lighter components all the way around.

 

[Mike402]

Id settle for another 308. You are already familiar and comfortable with the caliber. Why change? Now days people think you need a different caliber and load for every type of hunting. Varmint calibers/bullets for varmints. Deer calibers/bullets for deer. Elk calibers/bullets for elk. Its really a waste of time and money. Pick a good medium and go with it. People killed Elk for decades with pumpkin balls. Will a 175gr SMK not kill a varmint since its not a "varmint" bullet? Or kill a deer since its not a hunting bullet? You get the idea. All this "I need more power!" is a product of analizing too much numbers and not enough shooting.

The performance gains youll get with a 30-06 is very minimal and youll never see it in the field. In real life scenarios. And you get more recoil. Sound like a winner? No. Can you look at a dead deer and say "Wow! That was killed with a 30-06!". No. A deer shot with a 308 or 30-06 is a dead deer. Same scenario with a 300wm.

The 300wm shoots flatter than the 308, and comes with considerable more recoil. Are you really wanting all that recoil for a gun that you'll shoot maybe a handful of times in your life past 500 yards at live game? Anything farther is not your typical every day hunting. And for that kind of hunting id suggest a 338 Lapua/Edge and call it a day. And get your retina reattached later on.

As for 7mm's I cant really comment because I have no shooting experience with them.

Good luck with your numbers game.

I do get what you're saying, and agree with you to the extent that I have settled on the 178 AMAX as my one and only load for everything.
I would just feel better w/ a little more power /range than what the 308 offers. Fully realize that its more than capable of killing animals, but in the real world of imperfect shot placement, longer range, etc., I like a little more of a safety net. Same way I felt in Somalia when I was issued 5.56 & 9mm ball ammo. I'd much rather be overgunned than under.
With regards to analyzing numbers, the other day it hit 117 out where I am, which means I'm not out there shooting that much. I enjoy reading reviews, analyzing numbers & scenarios in Quickload, and discussing these things in forums like this. I'll enjoy the process of getting a new rifle/caliber & working up loads. Especially since business is slow for me rt now.
Finally as far as recoil is concerned, getting a muzzle break so shouldnt be a problem

 

[Clark]

I am a gun nut.
I reload over 60 different cartridges.
I have 25 reamers.
I build varmint rifles and shoot rodents with them in the summer.
I try to build 3 rifles every year and then shoot some ruminants with one of those rifles in the fall.

I am not a great marksman. I practice at long range every fall with a number of rifles, pick the best one to hunt with, and note the range at which I am a sure shot for the 12" kill zone.

In doing this over the years, I have found the winner to be 7mmRemMag loaded to the threshold of a lose primer or two, and backed off a couple grains, [This is as much as 11 gr more than published].

By how much does 7mm loaded to the max beat the other cartridges loaded to the max?

Typically I hunt out to 500 yards.
Sometimes 620 yards, sometimes only 400 yards, it depends on my results that year.

Typically the 7mmRemMag will reach out 100 yards further than a 22-250, 6mmBR, .243, 6mmRem, 25/35, 250/3000, 257Roberts, 257 Robert Ackley Improved, 257 Robert Ackley Improved rimmed, 25-06, 260Rem, 6.5x55, 6.5-06, 270, 7x57mm, 30-30, 303Sav, 300Sav, 308, 7.5Swiss, 30-06, 300WM, 303Brit,7.62x54R, 8x57mm, or 338WM.

Bart Bobbitt has shot a 3.3" 20 shot group at 800 yards with a 308.
I am not him.

If I get a 5" 5 shot group at 500 yards with a 7mmRM, I think, "This is going to be a good year."

What does it all mean?
The 7mmRM is an unfair advantage over other cartridges in 10 pound hunting rifles, in accuracy, trajectory, windage, and power on target at long range.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

There are a lot of folks who keep saying that a 30.06 only gets marginal performance edges on a .308. I would venture to guess that most of those folks do not have a 30.06 because they have convinced themselves that the .308 is really the way to go.
However, it has been said, and I'll say it again, the 30.06 is the poor-man's magnum. If you play with different loads/powders/bullets, you can see a major performance edge on the 30.06 in the higher bullet weights. The .308 loses its performance on longer distances and heavier bullets, while the 30.06 just keeps on going. I just had a 30.06 re-barrelled and chambered in 30.06 Ackley Improved. This rifle is pushing 230 grain bullets at 2700+FPS and ringing steel at 1000 yards with authority. I shot through a 1" plate at 120 yards with no problem.
My suggestion to you, OP, is get a 30.06. if you pay attention and do research, you will be able to make that rifle do what you want it to and will not be sorry.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

"Typically the 7mmRemMag will reach out 100 yards further than a 22-250, 6mmBR, .243, 6mmRem, 25/35, 250/3000, 257Roberts, 257 Robert Ackley Improved, 257 Robert Ackley Improved rimmed, 25-06, 260Rem, 6.5x55, 6.5-06, 270, 7x57mm, 30-30, 303Sav, 300Sav, 308, 7.5Swiss, 30-06, 300WM, 303Brit,7.62x54R, 8x57mm, or 338WM."

I'm old enough to know not argue with a man who has a favorite cartridge, and knows what it will do. (you never win)

So, just to clarify; are you saying your 7Mag is (what?) flatter, or more accurate with stated 230gr. bullets, shooting @1000 yards than a 300WM in any configuration? In how many ways is it superior, as a big game hunting cartridge. No challenge, just curious as to how you think? BB

 

[Clark]

No challenge, just curious as to how you think? BB

If you put different motorcycles on the a racetrack the pros do best with a high winding engine, but the amateurs do better with a wide torque band.
Likewise in rifles, a putz like me will do better with a 140 gr 7mmRM with 11 gr more powder than max published, while David Tubb can lob in 250 gr bullets from a 308 to win a championship.
David is as good as they get for wind doping.
I get up early and hunt before dawn to avoid wind doping.
I don't like to correct for range more than 8moa from a 200 yard zero.

I have lots of 300 Win Mags.
They are never going to shoot as well for me as a 7mmRM.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

As they say, there are many like it but this one is mine. A 700 chambered in 300Win. Magnum. For more than 30 years, I've hunted mule deer with a 165 gr. at ranges inside 430 yards, kinda my ethical limit. I can't say a 7Mag is better, within those parameters, maybe it don't matter? BB

 

[Clark]

This is the fist sized exit hole on the 3x5 mule buck I shot Oct 2013 with the 7mmRM 140 gr Nos Bal Tip 70 gr H4350 at 477 yards as seen on page 1 of this thread.

 

[AHall]

Pick the smaller option and run barnes ttsx bullets. Problem solved.

 

[Clark]

My plan is to blow as big a hole through the lungs as I can. The guys I hunt with are into partitions and do not agree with me. Last year one shot a bull elk with a 300 win mag. The bull stumbled over the hill and was finished off by a young man with a 22-250. The young man tagged it, and the old man with partitions got bupkis.

 

[Mike402]

Well to recap, let's see... Here are the recommendations by caliber:

30/06 - 5
6.5 Swede - 1
7mm - 5
300wm - 1
280 - 2
308 - 1

Just goes to show everybody has their favorite, when in reality just about any of these cartridges will do the job. I've decided to go w/ 30/06. Tx_Flyboy made some pretty compelling arguments - ease of reloading (component & factory ammo availability & no belt), lower recoil, plenty of power for what I intend to hunt, etc just seems like the right choice. Thanks for all those that posted with advice & pics of successful hunts. Appreciate it...

 

[BuzzBoss915]

That's a shame and the moral is BANG/FLOP. Because of the angle, hit only one lung and he launched through the Acacia thorn. Intense tracking, with much bleeding, (me) but it was midnight before my Kudu was in the truck. BB

PS can I change my vote to 280Ackley?

edit: PPS I'm up in Yucca Valley almost every week end.

 

[Mike402]

edit: PPS I'm up in Yucca Valley almost every week end.

Whoa small world gunny, that's 20min away from me. High Desert range? Pm me & maybe we can meet up. I've got a good spot out in the desert I frequent, good for 600 or so yards if you're ever interested.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Maybe, appreciate the offer, but I'm there because of my girl friend, know what I mean? Actually, I'm a member of West End Gun Club. That being said, I could very well appreciate a good spot to let it out to 600 yards. I will keep you in mind! BB