Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

[smack]

I'm getting ready to load some 190Gr Matrix bullets with my 7mm WSM. I can't find data anywhere. matrix didn't have any suggestions.

I'm going to use H1000 and H4831SC, I did a little math and came up with a 64gr charge of H1000 for the upper end. Could anyone run the #no's for me and see if I'm close.

I don't have a QL program or the like.

My COAL, kissing the lands is 3.0

71.593 H20 case capacity

190 Matrix

Caliber Inches: .284
Length: 1.526
Weight, grains: 190.0
Core Density, lb/ci-in: 0.4097
Core Weight, grains: 141.0
Jacket Density, lb/ci-in: 0.32
Jacket weight, lb/ci-in: 49.0
Ogive Radius, calibers: 13.0
Meplat Diameter, inches: 0.071

Real world BC is around .770

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

I thought I read somewhere that Mr Litz tested this bullet and it's true BC was .674. The same as the Berger 180 Hybrid.

 

[bward]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought I read somewhere that Mr Litz tested this bullet and it's true BC was .674. The same as the Berger 180 Hybrid.</div></div>

You are correct. Unless Matrix changed their design, there's no way the Litz BC is that much off.

 

[smack]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

Yes way...

http://www.austargets.com/matrix190.htm

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMACK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes way...

http://www.austargets.com/matrix190.htm </div></div>

I don't have a dog in this fight, but you have two guys saying it's X, the company saying it's Y (static?) and Bryan Litz stating it's .673 (G1) and .344 (G7).

Two guys shoot at 600 and 1k yards and declare it's X, the company who makes the bullet states it's Y and B.L., who's pretty well regarded, but does work for the competition, tells us it's a bit lower than both claims.

Either way, it's seems to be a very slick bullet. I shoot a 7 RM, but it's a 9.25" twist, however, it seems that these might just stabilize in my Gen 1 Sendero.

Chris

 

[smack]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

I got a chance to give them a go today, I parked them on top of 66.8grs of H1000. Just loaded up a few to see if they would even shoot. Fired one round at 300 yards with my 100 yard zero, just to see what the real world drop was. Made a elevation adjustment and I fired the last 4 rounds for group off a Harris bipod with a rear bag. It shows promise, I'll take it out to 600 and work with the charge and the seating depth. This is the first load I have tried with them.

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

Not bad for a first effort...

Jeffvn

 

[B.Bates]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

what barrel twist are you running?

any idea as to your speed?

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

Sure looks like they shoot!
I'm curious about your velocity too.

 

[smack]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

30", 9 twist Shilen

Right at 2980

 

[smack]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

Tightened them up a bit at 300 yards by jamming them .010 but had a stiff bolt lift at 66.8grs of H1000. So I'm going to back the charge off a bit and give it a try. Tired the jumped .010, .020 and .030. My role didn't care for them being jumped. The .030 did come in at just under a 1 1/2" group at 300.

7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD, 66.8gr H1000, Fed 215, .010. Jammed. Warm load, I need to back it off, stiff bolt lift.

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

Overall avg BC .673 G1. At 3K FPS .706 G1

 

[smack]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Overall avg BC .673 G1. At 3K FPS .706 G1</div></div>

Real world BC are higher. As posted prior.

http://www.austargets.com/matrix190.htm

 

[bward]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to lean towards the data published by the number one authority in bullets designs and ballistic coefficients, being Mr. Litz, over an Internet article that begins with the phrase "We done some range testing."

 

[smack]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

Seeing that Litz is in with the "Other" bullet manufacturer, lean wherever you choose. It doesn't change the real world BC any.

 

[BryanLitz]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

It has nothing to do with 'leaning'.

Look at the bullets side by side, SHOOT the bullets side by side, and make your decision.

'Real world' results are only as accurate as the measurements, and the method of determining BC by drop is the least certain method there is. The BC's I provide are a result of measuring time of flight to the 1/10th of a millisecond, which provides BC measurements to within +/-1%. What are the error bars associated with the drop method?

It's true I work for Berger, but there are many cases I report higher BC's for bullets of other brands because that's just the truth. Recognizing the truth, we (Berger) set about to improving and making things better than the other guy. So the fact that we tend to have higher BC bullets is a result of awareness and proactive, deliberate design than it is of slanting the results.

-Bryan

 

[smack]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

What higher BC bullet does Berger have in the 190gr 7mm class? Exactly, so are you saying that the BC data the Aussie's came up with on the link provided above is incorrect?

 

[smack]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

By the way Litz, I'm sure Berger appreciates your defending their BC's compared to other bullets on open forums. I would have appreciated some input from you more, concerning the question in my OP.

 

[bward]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

You are making yourself look stupid trying to argue with Bryan about this subject. There are so many ways to get a false bc when just looking at the drop at a certain distance. Is your chronograph speed exactly correct, is your scope height exact, is your atmospheric inputs exactly correct, etc...? He is the authority on this subject for a reason. Look through his book, there are several examples where he publishes a BC that is highest in its class for a company other than Berger.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

Berger's 180 hybrid has a BC of .674, same as his published bc for the Matrix.
I've never heard of a heavier bullet going faster than a lighter one, so the increased velocity would only be to ones advantage.
Coupled with the fact someone usually has sales on Berger's, the economic factor makes it a no brainer for me to shoot the Berger. Unless you're buying at some discount from Benchmark, the matrix's are $3.00 a box more than the Berger.

I personally don't know Mr Litz, but from what I've noticed, he is about as straight of a shooter as you could find in the firearms community. There's no reasonable excuse to question this guy. His info has only made our shooting easier.

 

[jbailey]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

I am highly skeptical of the 0.77 G1 BC claimed as well. Based not only on Bryan's work, but also on the bullet dimensions reported on that Australian Long Range Shooter website. They report the 190gr Matrix has a ogive radius of 13.0 calibers and a meplat of 0.071". Those two dimensions, among the most important in determining a bullet's form factor (which in turn is very important to a bullet's BC), are both sub-optimal.

Given that the 190gr 7mm has a sectional density of 0.337 lb/in^2, it would need to have a G1 Form Factor of 0.437 to offer a G1 BC of 0.77. That would make it the best designed bullet I have ever seen, which I think is highly unlikely given the ogive radius and meplat reported. Is this possible? I guess so, but I would rate it highly unlikely.

By way of contrast, to get the 0.67 G1 BC that Bryan claims, the bullet would have a G1 form factor of 0.50, which is much more realistic in the context of the reported dimensions.

In either case, 0.67 or 0.77 BC, it is an excellent long range bullet and worth shooting.

 

[smack]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

Thanks James.

 

[smack]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

Milo, most often than not. When a guys puts as much money as they do into a custom or semi custom rifle. I don't think the majority care about a $3.00 difference in price per box of bullets, at least I don't. But that's just me.

 

[bohem]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

SMACK- Try some Retumbo under that Pill. Start the Retumbo where you were getting sticky bolt lift on the H1000.

 

[smack]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

Thanks, I'll give it a shot.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Looking for input: 7mm WSM 190gr Matrix VLD.

Smack,
If the retumbo doesn't work, try about 68gr of N570, high energy stuff. Works in a saum, should in the wsm.
Where do you guys get those custom and semi custom guns? And how much do they cost?