Looking for your experiance with an ATS tuner for rimfire.

[JLP.Payette]

I’ve been reading up on Tuners for 22LR. Do you think it’s a must have for a rimfire that’s used for PRS22 matches? I like to use CCI standard velocity because I have a stockpile of it and it doesn’t group the best out of my rifles, I’m hoping a tuner will help.

 

[littlepod]

Tuners will make good things shoot better, but isn't going to make crap shoot good. Your standard velocity might get a little better with a tuner, but that extreme spread is possibly going to cause you to drop shots nonetheless due to the ammo, especially at distance.

If you really are competitive in PRS22, then I'd just get some good match ammo, and practice all you want with the CCI SV, but use something like Rifle Match, Center-X, etc for matches.

 

[littlesister]

I’ve been reading up on Tuners for 22LR. Do you think it’s a must have for a rimfire that’s used for PRS22 matches? I like to use CCI standard velocity because I have a stockpile of it and it doesn’t group the best out of my rifles, I’m hoping a tuner will help.

A tuner won't make bad ammo good and cci standard velocity is about as bad as you can get!

 

[6.5SH]

I'll throw in you are going to add another variable and that is ammunition temperature. The tune is going to be valid for a specific velocity range with that ammo. Given the temperature sensitivity of most .22 you will either need to track that and know when to adjust or to keep said ammo at a specific temperature range.

A friend ran into this exact issue with CCI-SV and an ATS (although this will affect any tuner) and a temperature at a match that was a good 35 degrees colder than when the tuner was adjusted.

 

[Defender32]

I have used an ATS Tuner and now use the Eric Cortina EC Tuner. I set my tune on SK Long Range at 70* range. I have shot it down into the Teens and NOT needed to change the tune at all. I am a 22" MTU Kreiger Barrel. The EC Tuner is way better than the ATS in my opinion. it was easier to tune and just flat out works.

 

[MDrimfirerookie]

So I actually have @Defender32 ATS tuner and my experience echo's the other's on here. It doesn't make crap ammo better and doesn't make a crappy shooter any better either. I am perfectly ok admitting my inability to shoot tight groups. It is a nice to have but the rifle has shown the ability to shoot lights out without the tuner so much so that I am debating taking it off because I stink...

 

[Defender32]

@MDrimfirerookie you don't stink its just practice, practice & practice more. I shot a 305 this past weekend out of a possible 720. It happens to everyone. The tuner helps on the 150 plus game. From 150 in its a minor improvement. That 12T is a hammer no doubt!!!

 

[CBeck]

I tried the ATS and EC on my Vudoo and never saw any improvement. Every time I thought I found something I could shoot a group, pull the tuner off and shoot a better group.

 

[JLP.Payette]

I tried the ATS and EC on my Vudoo and never saw any improvement. Every time I thought I found something I could shoot a group, pull the tuner off and shoot a better group.

Yeah. I’m kinda wondering if they are just snake oil. I’m gonna try a shaft collar on my barrel, moving it a couple thousandths between groups before I drop $200+ on a tuner unless I come by one for cheap.

 

[littlesister]

Yeah. I’m kinda wondering if they are just snake oil. I’m gonna try a shaft collar on my barrel, moving it a couple thousandths between groups before I drop $200+ on a tuner unless I come by one for cheap.

I can assure you tuners are not snake oil! I'm not sure what a shaft collar is but in order for a tuner to work it must place weight forward of the barrel crown. The problem is shooters are ordering guns with 16 to 20 in barrels and not seeing any improvement when they try to tune them. Its simple people!!!! Short heavy barrels DON'T respond well if at all to tuners. Straight taper barrels 22 to 27in, around .870 diameter will respond to a standard Harrels tuner. I have yet to test a barrel with these dimensions that didn't show improved vertical after being tuned.

 

[Cowpokey]

I've never used a tuner. With that said, I would be led to believe they won't help you unless you've maxed out your skill and equipment. You're not going to "buy" consistency.

 

[Masojoh]

I wasted an hour or two testing at 50. Moved out to 100, and things blew up on me, and I stopped for the day. A buddy shared that he doesn’t try tuning under 200 (he “groups” at 200). Seldom is the wind cooperative enough for me to feel confident in 200 yard groups.

My tuner sits in my parts box. I should sell it along with the other good ideas that get no play. My bar none, best bet on improving accuracy - sending your rifle to be lot tested at Lapua’s test center.

 

[fredfish]

I’ve been reading up on Tuners for 22LR. Do you think it’s a must have for a rimfire that’s used for PRS22 matches? I like to use CCI standard velocity because I have a stockpile of it and it doesn’t group the best out of my rifles, I’m hoping a tuner will help.

Try a limbsaver ( rubber doughnut ) for $10. I have one on most guns. I tried a tuner on my Annie for 200yd, limbsaver back on. They do work.

 

[Longshot231]

Try a limbsaver ( rubber doughnut ) for $10. I have one on most guns. I tried a tuner on my Annie for 200yd, limbsaver back on. They do work.

I have not tried one myself but surprised beyond belief when I saw a few ARA benchrest shooters with the ugly rubber doughnut on their $4000 rifles!

I'm an accuracy snob but nothing like these guys. I've known one of them for almost 40 years. He's a renowned gunsmith that also builds these outrageously-expensive-blue-blood-bench-rest rifles. He's got it on his rifle and recommends it to others!

Another bench-rest shooter that I've known for a few year has one on his rifle as well. This guy has to get therapy if one of his rounds doesn't quite get into the one-hole group.

So this has me wondering if I should get one for my Anschutz.

 

[Longshot231]

Who is this top level br gunsmith using a limb saver?

I prefer not to say. He's an older gentleman and I don't know how he would feel with his name posted on the internet.

 

[fredfish]

I have not tried one myself but surprised beyond belief when I saw a few ARA benchrest shooters with the ugly rubber doughnut on their $4000 rifles!

I'm an accuracy snob but nothing like these guys. I've known one of them for almost 40 years. He's a renowned gunsmith that also builds these outrageously-expensive-blue-blood-bench-rest rifles. He's got it on his rifle and recommends it to others!

Another bench-rest shooter that I've known for a few year has one on his rifle as well. This guy has to get therapy if one of his rounds doesn't quite get into the one-hole group.

So this has me wondering if I should get one for my Anschutz.

I have one on Annie, Vudoo, 2 CZ. My buddy at the club was trying to tune another Vudoo at 200yd with no luck. I convinced him to try LS. His next target was his best one yet 200-13x. Try it, won't hurt, very cheap. In fact I've tried 2 on 1 barrel, iffy?

 

[fredfish]

Top level br shooters do not use limb savers. The best in ara or psl or ir5050 usually have a harrell or stiller tuner, possibly a mid barrel tuner, but there are none at the very top level of br using the limb savers. I used one years ago and it did nothing. If your gun is able to be truly tuned than a harrell tuner or the likes are plenty to tune a barrel , there is no need for all the other ornaments on the barrel. Who is this top level br gunsmith using a limb saver?

One of the world record holders I think center fire, uses a tuner plus limb saver as a mid barrel tuner. One guy on this forum has same setup ( across pond I think?)

 

[obx22]

I'll throw in you are going to add another variable and that is ammunition temperature. The tune is going to be valid for a specific velocity range with that ammo. Given the temperature sensitivity of most .22 you will either need to track that and know when to adjust or to keep said ammo at a specific temperature range.

A friend ran into this exact issue with CCI-SV and an ATS (although this will affect any tuner) and a temperature at a match that was a good 35 degrees colder than when the tuner was adjusted.

That raises an interesting question, but first some background:
Shooting my preferred ammo over a chrony, I’ve noted a darn close parallel of say @ 58F ammo is 1058fps, at 74F ammo is 1074fps.
When I use these figures in my ballistic app, I get first round hits out to our range limit (400yds).

With that in mind, is there a parallel in the tuner settings vs temps ?

 

[obx22]

I have used an ATS Tuner and now use the Eric Cortina EC Tuner. I set my tune on SK Long Range at 70* range. I have shot it down into the Teens and NOT needed to change the tune at all. I am a 22" MTU Kreiger Barrel. The EC Tuner is way better than the ATS in my opinion. it was easier to tune and just flat out works.

Is the EC heavier?

 

[Defender32]

Is the EC heavier?

EC Tuner is a little heavier id say. I like it better due to the fact of not having to screw with the Allen screws every time you adjust it. The V2 EC Tuner is 100% toeless. It is a spring setup internally. A buddy of mine received #1 in the wild and we swapped out his original one this past weekend and installed the new one. Works just as well.

 

[brianf]

there is a HUUUUGE tuner thread that went off the rails a few times but tons of good info

lots of math, lots of personal experience, lots of targets

some of it makes sense and some of it is 2 + 2 =5


some top guys win with them and swear by them

some top guys win without them and say they are only good for specific situations after close to perfection is is had

all agree on if you shoot or your rifle shoots like crap...your groups will still be crap


but amazingly top guys always win...ironic right

my consensus is YMMV

 

[Farmerboy78]

Guys I shoot 22lr fclass. My rifle is a Russian vostok cm2 that had the barrel cut to 20" and recrowned. The best I could get was 1/2" groups which is horrible, when the x is the size of the bullet at 50yds. I bought a harrel tuner and running rws r50 ,which shot the 1/2" group, now will shoot them in the same hole if I judge wind correctly. ROUTINELY shoot 1570s or higher with this combination. Have shot many 200s with x count at 50yds. Tuners 100% do work, but I've heard a lighter weight tuner works better.

 

[littlesister]

Guys I shoot 22lr fclass. My rifle is a Russian vostok cm2 that had the barrel cut to 20" and recrowned. The best I could get was 1/2" groups which is horrible, when the x is the size of the bullet at 50yds. I bought a harrel tuner and running rws r50 ,which shot the 1/2" group, now will shoot them in the same hole if I judge wind correctly. ROUTINELY shoot 1570s or higher with this combination. Have shot many 200s with x count at 50yds. Tuners 100% do work, but I've heard a lighter weight tuner works better.

So much misinformation on this forum concerning tuners I very seldom respond anymore but I have nothing better to do tonight so here goes. The amount of weight needed to tune a barrel is determined by barrel length and diameter . The blank statement that a lighter tuner works better is pure BS! Barrels 20in or less don't respond well if at all to tuners. I have never seen a seen a 20 inch barrel respond to a harrels. Tuners help eliminate vertical and have very little effect on horizontal spread. I have never seen a Harrels take a 1/2 in of vertical out of a barrel at 50 yds. Not saying it's impossible. Just saying thats been my experience with close to 10 yrs of trying to tune remfire barrels!

 

[Farmerboy78]

Oh no I'm offended now, lol. As I said I hear that. From other shooters. AND, the tuner will take out 1/2" and turn it into way way less. And the theory of the lighter tuner working better is due to the harmonics changing in smaller increments for a given thread pitch the tuner encases. But everyone is the most knowledgeable here and a better shooter than anyone else and knows my rifle more than me and may also be full of bs, lol. If you are near me I invite you/anyone to come shoot it at any point and see first hand. Here it is

 

[littlepod]

Oh no I'm offended now, lol. As I said I hear that. From other shooters. AND, the tuner will take out 1/2" and turn it into way way less. And the theory of the lighter tuner working better is due to the harmonics changing in smaller increments for a given thread pitch the tuner encases. But everyone is the most knowledgeable here and a better shooter than anyone else and knows my rifle more than me and may also be full of bs, lol. If you are near me I invite you/anyone to come shoot it at any point and see first hand. Here it is

That tuner isn't a lighter tuner. That's a standard one which we would call heavy. And it extends way past the barrel to amplify it's effects.

 

[littlesister]

So much misinformation on this forum concerning tuners I very seldom respond anymore but I have nothing better to do tonight so here goes. The amount of weight needed to tune a barrel is determined by barrel length and diameter . The blank statement that a lighter tuner works better is pure BS! Barrels 20in or less don't respond well if at all to tuners. I have never seen a seen a 20 inch barrel respond to a harrels. Tuners help eliminate vertical and have very little effect on horizontal spread. I have never seen a Harrels take a 1/2 in of vertical out of a barrel at 50 yds. Not saying it's impossible. Just saying thats been my experience with close to 10 yrs of trying to tune remfire barrels!

Oh no I'm offended now, lol. As I said I hear that. From other shooters. AND, the tuner will take out 1/2" and turn it into way way less. And the theory of the lighter tuner working better is due to the harmonics changing in smaller increments for a given thread pitch the tuner encases. But everyone is the most knowledgeable here and a better shooter than anyone else and knows my rifle more than me and may also be full of bs, lol. If you are near me I invite you/anyone to come shoot it at any point and see first hand. Here it is

I hope you.re being sarcastic about being offended as my reply was not intended to offend. More on this lighter tuner theory. Assuming your barrel is in tune and this was done with a standard harrels , you simply added a certain amount of weight to the barrel to reach this tune. Now take the harrels off. Put on a CTS or any other brand and you're going to screw the thing in or out until you add the exact same amount of weight that the harrels added to get back to your original tune. How you get to that weight doesn't matter. Some people say the detent on a harrels isn't precise enough. I haven't found that to be the case. The detent ball can be removed for continuous tunning and replaced with a set screw. Never found that necessary either.

 

[Farmerboy78]

I was being sarcastic

 

[grauhanen]

Tuners help eliminate vertical and have very little effect on horizontal spread. I have never seen a Harrels take a 1/2 in of vertical out of a barrel at 50 yds. Not saying it's impossible. Just saying thats been my experience with close to 10 yrs of trying to tune remfire barrels

This is a good observation.

At 50 yards, two .22LR SV rounds with an MV difference of 50 fps would have about .35" of vertical dispersion between them. Tuners can't make those rounds shoot to the same POI.

 

[BigDaddy0381]

This was my experience with the ATS tuner, it's a rimx with a 26inch, 12 twist, Hogleg of a barrel with a anshultz'ish chamber. Follow trough riflewerks did the threading and chambering.

The left group of 20 marked 28 is eley from the first testing and ran out of that ammo.
So the rest is center x. I cleaned the barrel of all carbon and lead and anything else before I shot 25 center x into nowhere to lube up.. Then I set the tuner to zero and shot two per dot move 2 marks then 2 shots then 2 marks and so on until. I went with 33 on the tuner as it where the biggest nod. It also tells me the weight seem better a little behind the crown.
Rifle

Forgot to add this one

The first round of center X. I had 3 bricks same lot and all shot great on this setting 33

Now this was not touching anything and doing 20 rounds of center X in a different lot number I'm using now. So went up 1/10th and started practicing out to 206 and all went great.

 

[Farmerboy78]

Now compare 18 to 22 and then 32, looks like a 1/2" group shrank to 1 hole, just as I described and was told it isn't possible.

 

[littlesister]

Now compare 18 to 22 and then 32, looks like a 1/2" group shrank to 1 hole, just as I described and was told it isn't possible.

Based on the information you provided I'm not convinced your tuner has actually done anything other than move your point of aim around. I don't see any control groups. That is groups shot without the tuner on the barrel with the same ammo same day same distance same conditions. Without a control group, how do you know the tuner is actually improving accuracy? Do you consider 2 shots a true representation of a guns accuracy? You need at least 5 shot groups or more to tell anything about accuracy. Did you go back and check setting 32 by shooting some 5 or10 shot groups to see if that tune was repeatable. If that 20 shot group at setting 33 was shot a 50yds your barrel is not tuned and you haven't turned 1/2 groups to one hole.

 

[Farmerboy78]

Those aren't my targets, lol

 

[BigDaddy0381]

This was the first lot of center X with a 20 shot group set on 33.

 

[Farmerboy78]

I think you should have left your full remark!

 

[BigDaddy0381]

It's not worth the time or stooping into an argument.
I'm just posting my findings on my testing. Granted its probably not what the best have found but they work for me and the matches I shoot and do well in.

 

[BigDaddy0381]

This was the numbers for today's 20 rounds. I guess they are ok.
I've never cared much about anything other then the FPS average for what shooting I do.