Looking To Buy an LWRC From TOP GUN SUPPLY Reputation Comments Please.

[samnev]

Runs like a champ, never jams! It shots 1.5" with a H1 at 100yd all day long with 62gr green tip.

<a href="http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/333Tahoe/media/image_zpsfd540dbd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a506/333Tahoe/image_zpsfd540dbd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zpsfd540dbd.jpg"/></a>

Nice rig Tahoe333. 1.5" groups @ 100 yards with 62 grain Green Tips is fantastic. I have never had any luck in any of my 556 AR's with 62 grain Green Tips. Not in my 2 Colt's, LMT DI CQB, POF 415 or my 2 Noveske's. I am envious of your rig. I have a Tab Gear sling on my 308 AIAW FDE Folder, great sling.

 

[Tahoe333]

The sd3g trigger is amazing.

 

[Cobracutter]

Well said Elfster1234, Killshot, Shovelstrokeed and chainring but after all of CC posts I believe no matter what any one of us has said regarding his constant use of foul disrespectful language he is never going to change. He is by far the rudest, crudest, and disrespectful poster I have ever encountered on the net. He may or may not have a valid point but he hasn't the faintest idea of how to conduct polite discourse when one disagrees with an issue at hand and can't conduct a conversation with out a plethora of four letter invectives. As for his 1:45 PM post BSMSPHD.

Sorry sweetheart. Do you need a cuddle and a kiss as well?

 

[Cobracutter]

Runs like a champ, never jams! It shots 1.5" with a H1 at 100yd all day long with 62gr green tip.

<a href="http://s1281.photobucket.com/user/333Tahoe/media/image_zpsfd540dbd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a506/333Tahoe/image_zpsfd540dbd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zpsfd540dbd.jpg"/></a>

Most AR's with decent quality barrels will shoot around 1-2 MOA. That's not bad with green tip, LWRC's do have pretty good barrels. For fucking $2K, it should cup your balls and give you a happy ending.
Having a good/decent barrel has little to do with any of the factors talked about earlier. Nice try though. Accuracy is one of the least important atributes for rifles of this type.

 

[samnev]

Sorry sweetheart. Do you need a cuddle and a kiss as well?

Will wonders never cease a post without using a four lettered invective, I am shocked.

 

[Tahoe333]

Having a good/decent barrel has little to do with any of the factors talked about earlier.

.

CC, you still haven't stated the features that "your" AR needs to be worthy of consideration ! Let alone the features that LWRC are lacking.

 

[elfster1234]

Oh lord, you sound like _nick_!!! LOL!

You know whats nice about dealing with people like you?? Is i dont need to. Its kinda like talking about politics on snipers hide.... You just dont do it.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/firearms-sale/201048-updated-forum-rules.html

When you register with the site you are required to accept the board rules of conduct... Since there has been a question regarding these rules I have modified and will post them here for everyone to read and adhere to:


In order to keep these forums enjoyable and interesting for all of our users, we ask simply that you follow these minimal rules. By participating in the Sniper’s Hide Forums, you are consenting to these rules. Violators may be warned, suspended from posting, or barred from the forums at the sole discretion of the Sniper’s Hide Moderators.

Sniper's Hide Forum Rules, we consider this the first warning and enforcement may come with no second warning.

1.Exercise common sense and be considerate toward your fellow users. Diversity of opinion and intelligent civil discourse is encouraged; by the same token, Personal attacks, rudeness, flaming, baiting, insults to others, or arguments will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Any member who threatens anyone on the forum, via PM, instant messengers, or Email, will be banned immediately without notice.

Sorry sweetheart. Do you need a cuddle and a kiss as well?

 

[Cobracutter]

Oh lord, you sound like _nick_!!! LOL!

You know whats nice about dealing with people like you?? Is i dont need to. Its kinda like talking about politics on snipers hide.... You just dont do it.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/firearms-sale/201048-updated-forum-rules.html

When you register with the site you are required to accept the board rules of conduct... Since there has been a question regarding these rules I have modified and will post them here for everyone to read and adhere to:


In order to keep these forums enjoyable and interesting for all of our users, we ask simply that you follow these minimal rules. By participating in the Sniper’s Hide Forums, you are consenting to these rules. Violators may be warned, suspended from posting, or barred from the forums at the sole discretion of the Sniper’s Hide Moderators.

Sniper's Hide Forum Rules, we consider this the first warning and enforcement may come with no second warning.

1.Exercise common sense and be considerate toward your fellow users. Diversity of opinion and intelligent civil discourse is encouraged; by the same token, Personal attacks, rudeness, flaming, baiting, insults to others, or arguments will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Any member who threatens anyone on the forum, via PM, instant messengers, or Email, will be banned immediately without notice.

Hey now. That was my best attempt at being civil. Sometimes the delicate gloves have to be put one, don't want peoples sensitive little feelings getting hurt. It is the internet after all........serious business it is.

 

[elfster1234]

It has nothing to do with feelings and delicate gloves... It has everything to do with promoting intelligent civil discourse. Nothing wrong with posting your opinion as long as you do it with respect.

Hey now. That was my best attempt at being civil. Sometimes the delicate gloves have to be put one, don't want peoples sensitive little feelings getting hurt. It is the internet after all........serious business it is.

 

[Name Enough]

It has nothing to do with feelings and delicate gloves... It has everything to do with promoting intelligent civil discourse. Nothing wrong with posting your opinion as long as you do it with respect.

Give it up elfster -
we are engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
It is somewhat sad that so many thread here have to decline to a state where they reflect so negatively on this site.
It detracts from the integrity of the info posted here. Some may fine it entertaining but I am not one of those.

 

[Fongman]

I'm not a warfighter and have never been on a two way range, but I've tested my equipment to the best of my ability with the conditions available to me.

I own 1 Noveske, 3 KAC SR15 (one older and 2 E3 Mod 1) and 4 LWRC rifles. My Noveske is the most accurate - modestly so. The KACs are definitely smooth shooters. But my go to gun would be my LWRC 10.5 M6A2 on an Colt M16 lower. The other rifles have been much more ammo sensitive. I've had more malfunctions with the others, but my LWRC has over 20k rounds down the tube and has proven it's self to me many times over. Admittedly, my LWRC 10.5 was a bit difficult to get working properly, but once the kinks were worked out (2005-ish) it has run like a raped ape. BTW I had one LWRC barrel many years ago that burnt out within 2k rounds. They had a bad batch of barrels and replaced mine for free with the updated Ni-Corr barrel. I absolutely love that barrel.

I shoot with a suppressor and have shot them all over 1k rounds without cleaning. They will all run if kept wet, but the LWRC is the last to get sluggish. Actually, I've never gotten it to the point where it's becomes sluggish like the other guns. It doesn't mean much, but cleaning the LWRC is a lot easier - when/if you ever get around to doing that.

LWRC customer service has been by far much better than my experience with KAC. Although things have vastly improved at KAC in the last several years.

That's my personal experience take it for what it's worth.

 

[FALex]

JP is not a proven combat weapon (as far as I have researched or read)

LMT (Brit DMR, MK18 USNavy), OBR (SOCOM unit purchase), GAP10 (SOCOM unit purchase), SCAR (SOCOM Rifle), KAC (MK11,SR-25,M110 and along with a bunch of SOCOM Variants) are all combat proven weapons.

JP are game guns. They are made to shoot very accurate and minimze recoil, 3Gun times, ect They use a lot of non-standard(as if there was even a standard, but you get the point) AR10 parts.
That's not to say JP is incappable of making a good combat weapon. They just are not marketed or designed as such.

Gotcha'. That makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Redmanss]

Is ARFCOM down?

 

[samnev]

The deed is done the SPR is ordered. I ended up getting it from Top Gun Supply. They were the only one that had 1 left in stock.

 

[BigBoss0311]

Congrats. Let me know how you like the ambi lower.

 

[shovelstrokeed]

Just a quick public announcement.
I just read some stuff by CC over on another section of the forum.
The guy does know how to speak civilly and appears to indeed have some experience.
I don't know what got sand in his mangina over LWRC but, don't be over harsh on him, that was only one side of him.

 

[Delta4-3]

I disagree, I've used the m110 extensively, and found it severely lacking. It's silencer is loud and heavy, as with most KAC cans. The legacy of the Knights is what got that particular weapon selected, and their cans.

It's not a question, its a fact. Top shooters in industry and the military would agree. Most shooters who are turned on, would agree.
There is a reason why they hardly ever go for sale on the secondary market.

I can build an equivalent of just about any AR on the market from COTS(JP is the other, although you can buy their parts). KAC products , you cannot. The amount of money and time that has gone into their products shows. They were building SR-25's for the military before most people in the industry even knew what an AR-15 was.

 

[samnev]

Just a quick public announcement.
I just read some stuff by CC over on another section of the forum.
The guy does know how to speak civilly and appears to indeed have some experience.
I don't know what got sand in his mangina over LWRC but, don't be over harsh on him, that was only one side of him.

I am not so sure he knows how to speak civilly. Here is a recent post on the long delays on OBR's He has a point but civil discourse I think not.

"IF Mark Larue spent 1/4 the time he does bullshit on the internet and whining like a bitch instead of building rifles and getting his house in order......Then everyone would have their guns by now. Hes down right pathetic and a strait up asshole. Outside of his guns, most of his products are obsolete shit anyway".

I never questioned his experience and if he is currently serving or has served he is to be thanked. I think almost everyone that responded negatively about his posts was annoyed at the profanity laced posts which have no place on this forum. Many have tried to clam down his invective laced rhetoric but he seemed immune to any constructive criticism,. So I for one can only judge his character but what I read. I am truly sorry the thread evolved the way it did.

 

[samnev]

Congrats. Let me know how you like the ambi lower.

Thanks, I sure will as soon as I get the rig set up and take it to the range and try it out.

 

[Cobracutter]

I disagree, I've used the m110 extensively, and found it severely lacking. It's silencer is loud and heavy, as with most KAC cans. The legacy of the Knights is what got that particular weapon selected, and their cans.

That's not really a fair assesment. The Military got EXACTLY what it wanted with the M110. KAC has tried for years to make changes to the contract with improvements that would cost the government little/nothing and would address many of the deficencies that soldiers are having with them.

The Army does not treat the MK-11/M110's as what they are, high performance sniper weapon systems that require care and maintance like other similar systems. There is hardly any institutional Knowelege or experince within the ordinance branch and armorer's really have no idea how to work on them. As a result they they trashed/thrashed and treated like any other M16/M4. Then when they are deadlined, they get sent back to KAC for overhualls (Which they STILL cant do the modifications to due to the contract and the governments reluctance to do a contract mod).

The only one to blame is the DoD. KAC has made repeated, doccumented attempts over the years to address these issues, yet they go ignored by Ignorant contracting jackasses who wouldnt even know which end of the barrel the rounds come out.

This is sometimes the nature of contracting.

EDIT: Feel free to start educating yourself here:http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=137240 and for some lighter reading, http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=90902

 

[smschulz]

Yeah, if you want to do business with somebody then Top Gun Supply is he one you want.
Top notch.

 

[Delta4-3]

Ours were babied and still sucked. That also doesnt explain why their cans are loud and heavy, and why m110's are 4-5 MOA guns. I don't think the military got exactly what they wanted, but maybe some higher ups that don't have to use them did, kind of like ACU's. One of the reasons they didn't get to revamp the m110 is because they do take SOME feedback from guys like myself, which gave the advice of start over, not to mention the premium Knights would charge to fix stuff that shouldn't need fixing in the first place. But I'm getting way off topic. I was chomping at the bit to use the m110 because on paper it fit the bill perfectly, but in the end it gathered dust in the cage while the M24 rocked on. It's a sad day when a lowly E5 can build a .308 gas gun on his own dime that will leave an m110 in the dust in every aspect, not to mention that said buck sergeant's form 1 can is way better as well.

 

[K_4c]

Ours were babied and still sucked. That also doesnt explain why their cans are loud and heavy, and why m110's are 4-5 MOA guns. I don't think the military got exactly what they wanted, but maybe some higher ups that don't have to use them did, kind of like ACU's. One of the reasons they didn't get to revamp the m110 is because they do take SOME feedback from guys like myself, which gave the advice of start over, not to mention the premium Knights would charge to fix stuff that shouldn't need fixing in the first place. But I'm getting way off topic. I was chomping at the bit to use the m110 because on paper it fit the bill perfectly, but in the end it gathered dust in the cage while the M24 rocked on. It's a sad day when a lowly E5 can build a .308 gas gun on his own dime that will leave an m110 in the dust in every aspect, not to mention that said buck sergeant's form 1 can is way better as well.

We had them briefly in OIF 3... as stated above, our m24's remained the workhorses. However, I will admit my KAC mod 1 and LPR are both solid rifles. I've owned 3 LWRC's and had no issues (other than its weight).

So coming from a vet and a "hobbyist shooter".... shoot what you want. Walk softly and carry a heavy hammer.

 

[Cobracutter]

Ours were babied and still sucked. That also doesnt explain why their cans are loud and heavy, and why m110's are 4-5 MOA guns. I don't think the military got exactly what they wanted, but maybe some higher ups that don't have to use them did, kind of like ACU's. One of the reasons they didn't get to revamp the m110 is because they do take SOME feedback from guys like myself, which gave the advice of start over, not to mention the premium Knights would charge to fix stuff that shouldn't need fixing in the first place. But I'm getting way off topic. I was chomping at the bit to use the m110 because on paper it fit the bill perfectly, but in the end it gathered dust in the cage while the M24 rocked on. It's a sad day when a lowly E5 can build a .308 gas gun on his own dime that will leave an m110 in the dust in every aspect, not to mention that said buck sergeant's form 1 can is way better as well.

Feel free to ask Kevin B and Jack about it. They are the go to guys on the military side of the house and I'm sure can address your issues. Based on what you are saying, there are reasons. GOV wanted a reflex can design, and wanted that can. KAC has since came out with new cans that are much better, Yet the gov doesn't want them. LC 118 is SHIT ammo, and is to blame for alot of poor accuracy. The QC there is shit, and you are lucky if you can get 2MOA lot to lot. The people who speced, selected, and approved those guns was did not have an infantry or even B4 background. It was fucked from the begging. Also , many people shoot gassers shitty. Its not the same as driving a bolt gun and unless they have very solid fundementals and followthrough, they won't shoot them as well as a gun with less variables.

Keep in mind, that it hasn't been untill very recent that a end user could build their own .308 gasser. Don't compare what can be done today to what was done over 5 years ago. Thats revisionist thinking and is not in the proper context.

KAC Commcercial guns do not have these problems. Great example is their new triggers. They are EVERY bit as good as Geiselle's if not better. I only run them on my KAC guns that came with them, as the price is a little high, and Geiselle is a better value. From what I have gathered from posts and talking with some KAC reps, some specialized units have been fielding their K1 and K2 variants, which are MUCH better designs with great feedback from the end user. Its a two way street. Companies like LMT, Larue, POF/GAP, ect had the benefit of KAC's R&D over the last 20 years that has made the AR10/SR25 platform into what it is today. They always seem to be trying to innovate and sqeeze that extra little performace out of already good designs. The drawback to this, is growing pains and designs that are constantly revised and evolving.

 

[macfly]

Hey cobra,
Still waiting to hear your FACTS about the LWRCs that make them inferior weapons. Feel free to educate us

 

[Delta4-3]

But I can use the same lot of LR118 in the 24 and get well under MOA. Their cans we used on our M4's were an equal travesty. I'm not saying all KAC's suck. Talking to Kevin won't change my mind because I've had this conversation in person with him multiple times. Point is, well I forgot what my point was, but that's besides the point. I've done enough derailing here....Lol

 

[samnev]

Yeah, if you want to do business with somebody then Top Gun Supply is he one you want.
Top notch.

Top notch is correct. They got my FFL this morning gave me the UPS tracking # and the SPR ships today.

 

[Tahoe333]

CC - I found this on the m4c site. Wanna comment on the KAC issues ?


From February 2009 (CAVEAT -- I HAVE NOT TOUCHED OR SHOT ONE FOR OVER TWO YEARS NOW):


Quote:
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED


Caveats: NONE


Morning Sir,


I am taking the liberty to email you about the M110 issue, and I hope that’s okay. Here’s why:


Two very good and excellent friends of mine told me you were the man. Brian and Bill, both said you were “as good as they come”. They are excellent friends of mine and we’ve known each other many years. I used to be a SWAT sniper before the war.


So if it’s okay with you, I would like to speak very frankly with you on this M110 issue. I have spoken by email with CSM XXX and he told me these issues are not new, and they had to “rework” all the 110’s they were using to run a basic sniper course recently.


So why isn’t the community raising hell? Why isn’t the Army raising hell?


Bill told me another guy you know, Chuck, used to send these guns back to Knight’s regularly because they didn’t meet spec, when he worked at joint service small arms. I don’t personally know Chuck, but I would bet he could provide a lot more info, and I’ll also bet some of it is very revealing.


Here’s what I’m hearing so far:


Bad triggers, cracked bolts, broken bolt stops, safeties falling out, shitty suppressor attachment resulting in POI shifts, cracks in lowers, and so on. Now I’m not an SF guy, or a SEAL or a CAG dude, but I am an Army sniper, and former SWAT sniper. And I can tell when a rifle is a piece of shit. This rifle is a piece of shit sir.


Not to mention when I personally saw these cracks on the locking lugs, the sniper I was working with called the number the net fielding team gave him, and spoke to a nice lady. She told him she’d add his problems to the “list of problems that have already been identified”. (?!) She had no resolution to offer. That was a big help. Then that sniper called a sniper buddy of his who was deploying, and was told they are leaving their 110’s at home cause they’re pieces of shit, and they’re taking 24’s to the war.


Bil tells me the DOE is down at Rifles Only right here in Texas training with theirs, and they’re falling apart like Walmart Bicycles.


I’m sort of floored that some people, influential people I would think, are acting like this is a surprise. I can’t see how. Other people like you, seem to realize the gravity of this situation.


You bet I’ll do a QDR, and whatever else I need to. I’ll recommend we put em all in a box truck and take em back to Florida. I don’t owe Knight’s a damn thing, but they do owe me a rifle that works, works properly, and won’t blow up in Joe’s face downrange when the lugs shear off the bolt.


Now, on the other hand, what is the possibility that some of this is being caused by bad ammo? I know M118LR is the holy grail, and I’ve shot my share of it at Haji. But what if? Chuck can tell you about how years ago Lake City was using a test barrel with a 1 in 10 twist when the Marines used 1 in 12 and the Army used 1 in 11.25 so the ammo wasn’t working out. What are the odds the ammo is just a little too hot? It might not ever show up in a bolt gun, but it’s just enough to break down a gas gun?


That wouldn’t explain what I saw, cracks in the bolt after 70 rounds, but maybe it could account for some of the problems? I’m just trying to account for all possibilities.


I appreciate your help sir, and I’ll keep in touch if that’s okay.

 

[Cobracutter]

That whole post has more holes than I care to count, and some of those "issues" were addressed years ago.

M118LR is Holy Grail? Are you smoking dope? Lake city is some of the most inconsitant shit out there and the sole reason the Navy moved forward with procurement of the MK316 . Educate yourself here: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantrysmallarms/tuesdaysessioniii8524.pdf . The rest of your post is irrelevent as far as I'm concerned, there are too many lies in there to take anything seriously.

So next time you want to cherry pick a post or data, atleast get your info right.

 

[samnev]

Please guys don't dignify this no it all's (so he thinks) posts any longer with a comment as this nonsense has gone on long enough. MODERATORS PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Professional gun forum lurkers gotta get respect for reading gun forums.

 

[msat10]

After reading this thread, I'm glad I bought an LWRC.

 

[This I'll Defend]

Cobracutter. I am new to the Hide and only really contributed a little in the last few weeks. However, I have had enough time to see the way you talk to people and express your opinion. I ask you to clean it up a bit. As a fellow veteran and still serving warrior, I want you to tone it down when you talk on this forum. You are very knowledgable and the advice you provide is often spot on. However, you suffer from a case of knowledge exceeding maturity and ego/personal feelings before consideration of others. Bottom line, you are Trolling on Sniper's Hide. Believe me, I can cuss with the best of them and have thicker skin than you would believe, but I feel like you misrepresent your fellow veterans by denigrating fellow Hide members based on their desire to purchase one product over another. Think of the rest of us on here and clean it up. No need to drag down people's perception of knowledgable individuals because you have strong personal beliefs about one product over another.

 

[Maelstrom]

To the op also check out Rainier Arms https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/manufacturer&manufacturer=147. They have good customer service and if you are military or an LEO they offer discounts. Northwest Tactical and Modern Outfitters are also gtg. Modern Outfitters offers some interesting customizations and a textured cerakote coating.

 

[Fatherdeath]

yeah what i have found out alot of company's will do military/leo discounts just email them from work and see what they offer ...But that being said thats almost always off MSRP a site or local dealer might have it for less with like a 5 percent or 10 percent discount and match or beat the MFG discount