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Looking to getting in to reloading
- Thread starter cjs88
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a single stage press like a rock chucker from RCBS , balance beam scale , Die set for the cartridge your loading for and a bunch of misc stuff, brushes, chamfer tools, dial calipers, Powder measure. RCBS used to make a kit to get started, that's what I did 30 years ago. Seams like I never quite buying stuff. I assume your doing rifle, you'll need a case trimer as the brass grows from use usually. Reloading manual from Hornady or Berger is a good Idea also. Eventually you'll buy a tumbler to clean brass, maybe a annealer, powder trickier. If you get into high volume a Dillon 550 is a good reloading press, loaded tens of thousands of rounds on it for pistol mainly but Iv'e done some rifle on it also. I just ran some numbers on cost of loading 6.5 creedmoor using Lapua brass, hornaday ELD match bullets, H4350,CCI primers.
Came out to like $.63 cents a round.
Came out to like $.63 cents a round.
What is your budget? Starting out reloading has a significant initial spend. Then its normally a constant draw on the wallet as you try and improve things.
Bare minimum is single stage press, scale, dies, calipers, debur/chamfer tool and way to trim cases. Look for uses stuff in your area if you wanting to save money. Lots of folk get into reloading to find out its not for them.
Bare minimum is single stage press, scale, dies, calipers, debur/chamfer tool and way to trim cases. Look for uses stuff in your area if you wanting to save money. Lots of folk get into reloading to find out its not for them.
That RCBS starter kit is about $319.
If you got the time a lot of the items can be found used at gun shows. A decent Single stage press will last a life time. Another helpful tool down the road is a chronograph.
Not 100% necessary but is nice to compare your load velocities to the reloading manuals (safety Issue) and also how consistent your loads are. Figure you will cut your cost per round in half but like the fellow up above said there's a good bit of up front costs.
If you got the time a lot of the items can be found used at gun shows. A decent Single stage press will last a life time. Another helpful tool down the road is a chronograph.
Not 100% necessary but is nice to compare your load velocities to the reloading manuals (safety Issue) and also how consistent your loads are. Figure you will cut your cost per round in half but like the fellow up above said there's a good bit of up front costs.
I don't like kits as I would rather see guys buy the higher quality tools to make reloading less painful and more enjoyable. In the long run you'll save a bunch of money if you can afford to buy once cry once rather than buying cheap now and better quality later on.
With that said, I get it that sometimes the up front cost is too prohibitive and upgrading over time is preferable. Lyman does make a full kit called the "ultimate reloading system" or similar that is the only kit I'm aware of that contains literally all of the bare essentials to get started for roughly $600.
My basic tool list:
• Reloading press
• Powder Dispenser
• Brass Trimmer
• Tumbler (or another way to clean brass)
• Cartridge specific Die Set (full length sizing die and bullet seating die)
• Reloading Manual
• Loading Blocks - maybe not a must, but cheap enough that they're too nice to have to skip
• Case Prep Multi Tool (at least chamfer and debur)
• Priming Tool
• Case Lube
• Bullet Puller
• Calipers (measuring is the key to safety and consistency)
• Scale (can be manual beam or electronic, powder dispensers with built in scales are even better)
With that said, I get it that sometimes the up front cost is too prohibitive and upgrading over time is preferable. Lyman does make a full kit called the "ultimate reloading system" or similar that is the only kit I'm aware of that contains literally all of the bare essentials to get started for roughly $600.
My basic tool list:
• Reloading press
• Powder Dispenser
• Brass Trimmer
• Tumbler (or another way to clean brass)
• Cartridge specific Die Set (full length sizing die and bullet seating die)
• Reloading Manual
• Loading Blocks - maybe not a must, but cheap enough that they're too nice to have to skip
• Case Prep Multi Tool (at least chamfer and debur)
• Priming Tool
• Case Lube
• Bullet Puller
• Calipers (measuring is the key to safety and consistency)
• Scale (can be manual beam or electronic, powder dispensers with built in scales are even better)
Here is one way to keep costs down and try out reloading:
Search for Lee Precision Anniversary Challenger kit ii. You can get it for about $130. Sell the scale on EBay and buy a used RCBS or similar scale. Get a Frankfort Arsenal digital caliper and powder trickler and buy a reloading manual. That plus components and you can start reloading.
Search for Lee Precision Anniversary Challenger kit ii. You can get it for about $130. Sell the scale on EBay and buy a used RCBS or similar scale. Get a Frankfort Arsenal digital caliper and powder trickler and buy a reloading manual. That plus components and you can start reloading.
The balance beam scales that come in kits work well but are very time consuming. I started out using one, then moved to a digital scale and lee powder thrower using my fingers to “trickle” up to my desired charge. After a few years of that I graduated to an autotrickler. The charge masters are quite decent and can be found second hand in the E&E. I highly suggest one! time=money. I would look at a giraud trimmer, it is well worth the money as well!
My advice is going to get me yelled at. But it depends on one big “IF”.
IF you can find someone in your area that runs a dillon 550, and is willing to help mentor you, get a dillon and learn it. For what rock chuckers are going for these days, you might as well pony up a smidge more and get the dillon. You can load single stage if you like, or run it progressive.
Either way, it’s the way to go. Just make sure you have a good understanding of what’s going on before you try to go progressive.
Btw....where are you?
IF you can find someone in your area that runs a dillon 550, and is willing to help mentor you, get a dillon and learn it. For what rock chuckers are going for these days, you might as well pony up a smidge more and get the dillon. You can load single stage if you like, or run it progressive.
Either way, it’s the way to go. Just make sure you have a good understanding of what’s going on before you try to go progressive.
Btw....where are you?
I agree even though I load on a single stage. Plenty of top competitors load on progressives now. Buy once/cry once
Surely with all the members here, whereever the OP is, there should be someone running a dillon that would be willing to mentor. If you are in north western wisconsin or around the twin cities area in minnesota, i certainly will.
First and foremost buy a reloading manual and read it. Second, it is possible to reload accurate ammo with inexpensive Lee Precision equipment. Their Hand press uses standard dies and shell holders. The scale they offer is every bit as accurate as the name brand scales. Lee also offers an economical hand case trimmer. Unless you intend to shoot in competition or long range don't spend your money on the expensive stuff. Start at the bottom and work your way up. If you decide to get better equipment later you'll find yourself still using the Lee Hand Press to deprime your brass while watching sports. Tip, don't drop the spent primers in the wife's carpet. She will get pissed at the racket they make when vacuumed. The also tend to chew up the impeller.
i will state that i started with a lee press and scale. that being said, it is LONG gone. sent off to another guy who started reloading; who moved up to a dillon. he sent the lee press to his cousin, who wanted to start loading.....who is currently prowling for a dillon.
the lee will get you started. but i would spend a few extra bucks and get the 550 model dillon. they have a stripped down version, and the regularr version-the stripped down can be added to to bring it up to being the same press the regular one is; and that can be tricked out to the limit should you want to down the road. try to find a person in your AO who can help you get started.
Lee makes the anniversary kit for 130ish. Should have everything you need to get started....except dies.
The dillon 550 basic is 300ish. You’ll need a scale, and probably a powder trickler.
And you’ll need a handloading manual-pick whichever by what bullets you shoot. Hornady,, nosler, and speer books are all very good; i have them all.
That’d get you started.
The dillon 550 basic is 300ish. You’ll need a scale, and probably a powder trickler.
And you’ll need a handloading manual-pick whichever by what bullets you shoot. Hornady,, nosler, and speer books are all very good; i have them all.
That’d get you started.
I started with a lee hand press because of space constraints then.
Bought a lee turrets snd am still running it.
I used the hand press to process brass a lot watching a movie smokin a cigar.
Where I would start to keep from wanting to upgrade your stuff immediately
Lyman 8 station turret press- $200
Used Chargemaster 1500- $240
Rcbs 2 die set- $50
Hornady one shot lube $15
Plastic trays- $10
Worlds finest case trimmer $75
Good set of digital calipers $75
Hornady Comparator set $75
Frankford Arsenal Hand primer $50
Bullet puller $15
That will give you a really good head start without wasting money on cheap sub par equipment
Lyman 8 station turret press- $200
Used Chargemaster 1500- $240
Rcbs 2 die set- $50
Hornady one shot lube $15
Plastic trays- $10
Worlds finest case trimmer $75
Good set of digital calipers $75
Hornady Comparator set $75
Frankford Arsenal Hand primer $50
Bullet puller $15
That will give you a really good head start without wasting money on cheap sub par equipment
Decent list.
A few things I’d change but that’s personal preference.
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Buy a reloading book and read it.
Have fun on your journey down the rabbit hole.
My only recommendation on equipment is buy some decent measuring instruments. calipers, micrometer, case guages etc.
Edit: Actually one more. Check out the forster classic trimmer with their 3 in 1 case mouth trimmer. Trim, chamfer, debur.
www.forsterproducts.com
Have fun on your journey down the rabbit hole.
My only recommendation on equipment is buy some decent measuring instruments. calipers, micrometer, case guages etc.
Edit: Actually one more. Check out the forster classic trimmer with their 3 in 1 case mouth trimmer. Trim, chamfer, debur.
3-in-1 Case Mouth Cutters – Forster Products
Select a product according to caliber.
www.forsterproducts.com
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A lee kit will get you going cheap.
A digital scale and calipers .
A headspace comparitor case trimmer and better champhering tool.
Lyman makes nice accessories .
Dont toss the beam scale, may need one when grid fails.
A digital scale and calipers .
A headspace comparitor case trimmer and better champhering tool.
Lyman makes nice accessories .
Dont toss the beam scale, may need one when grid fails.
In my opinion...
If you're going to splurge some where start with the case trimmer. Manual case trimming is the most time consuming of all the hands on reloading processes. Going with an electric brass prep center saves time and effort on what I feel is the worst part of reloading. The Frankford platinum trim station ($120) is a decent option. A drill press if you already have one and 3 way trimmer like the world's finest trimmer ($70) is another good budget friendly option. If you have the funds the Giruad ($500) is a game changer in ease and speed of trimming.
Then if you still have money to splurge with spend it on a powder throw/scale combo. For precision rifle you'll likely want to add a powder trickler for consistently accurate powder charges. The RCBS charge master is the defacto option to get for scale and powder measure in one ($280) and add a manual powder trickler ($25).
After the above items and all your other basics are purchased then it's time to see if there is money left for a Dillon or similar press. The way most of us reload precision rifle rounds a progressive won't save you as much time over cheaper turret press as the above items will save you.
If you're going to splurge some where start with the case trimmer. Manual case trimming is the most time consuming of all the hands on reloading processes. Going with an electric brass prep center saves time and effort on what I feel is the worst part of reloading. The Frankford platinum trim station ($120) is a decent option. A drill press if you already have one and 3 way trimmer like the world's finest trimmer ($70) is another good budget friendly option. If you have the funds the Giruad ($500) is a game changer in ease and speed of trimming.
Then if you still have money to splurge with spend it on a powder throw/scale combo. For precision rifle you'll likely want to add a powder trickler for consistently accurate powder charges. The RCBS charge master is the defacto option to get for scale and powder measure in one ($280) and add a manual powder trickler ($25).
After the above items and all your other basics are purchased then it's time to see if there is money left for a Dillon or similar press. The way most of us reload precision rifle rounds a progressive won't save you as much time over cheaper turret press as the above items will save you.
I took txwelders list and added all the stuff to my cart in brownells. Looking at $431 -the chragemaster. Might go that route but throw some of your case trimmer suggestions in.
Here is a great starter kit...
www.midwayusa.com
All you need beside this is dies and components for your desired round.
Lyman Brass Smith All-American 8 Turret Press Ultimate Reloading Kit
The Lyman Ultimate Reloading System is the only kit you’ll ever need! Outfit an entire reloading bench with premium products designed to...
www.midwayusa.com
All you need beside this is dies and components for your desired round.
Meh.....i’ve been handloading since the mid 90’s. I shudder to think how many rounds i’ve loaded since then. Get you either a case measure gauge or a caliber to measure length. There is a minimum case length, and a maximum case length. If it’s in between....good enough. I havent spent much time at all trimming cases.....probably the least most used piece of handloading equipment i have.
If you are benchrest shooting, or want the maximum accuracy...then yes, you want to get knit-picky about the small stuff and make each round as consistent as possible. This dovetails into the “hand measure each powder charge versus volume measuring” deal. Is it going to make a minute difference? Yes. But you have to be PRETTY DAMN GOOD to see those results. The vast majority of people are not. I’ve proven this time and again with various shooters. I think that time is better spent developing a load your rifle really likes.
Handloading is a rabbit hole that one can travel down for a LONG way. But it doesnt have to go to that extent in order to get real world good results. Figure out what your goal is, and then move forward from there.
I used ammo i loaded on my 550 with the powder measure throwing each charge out of my 270 winchester out at an informal shoot we had between a group of battalion rangers, 82nd paratroopers, and other infantry brothers. While i wasnt the top shooter, i placed #3 out of the group of 30ish guys. And the two guys that beat me were shooting dedicated rifles. Mine was my deer rifle. We shot at distances from 250 to just under 900 yards.
My view is.....i’d rather spend time behind the gun that fiddle fucking with minutia. What works for me, might not be acceptable to someone else. Ymmv
If you are benchrest shooting, or want the maximum accuracy...then yes, you want to get knit-picky about the small stuff and make each round as consistent as possible. This dovetails into the “hand measure each powder charge versus volume measuring” deal. Is it going to make a minute difference? Yes. But you have to be PRETTY DAMN GOOD to see those results. The vast majority of people are not. I’ve proven this time and again with various shooters. I think that time is better spent developing a load your rifle really likes.
Handloading is a rabbit hole that one can travel down for a LONG way. But it doesnt have to go to that extent in order to get real world good results. Figure out what your goal is, and then move forward from there.
I used ammo i loaded on my 550 with the powder measure throwing each charge out of my 270 winchester out at an informal shoot we had between a group of battalion rangers, 82nd paratroopers, and other infantry brothers. While i wasnt the top shooter, i placed #3 out of the group of 30ish guys. And the two guys that beat me were shooting dedicated rifles. Mine was my deer rifle. We shot at distances from 250 to just under 900 yards.
My view is.....i’d rather spend time behind the gun that fiddle fucking with minutia. What works for me, might not be acceptable to someone else. Ymmv
The other point i’d make is.......lyman, rcbs, lee, dillon, hornady.....doesnt really matter. I’m happy to see a new handloader stepping forth. Whichever way you decide to go, there really is no wrong answer.
Have fun and enjoy it, it’s provided me with a lot of enjoyment through the years.
Have fun and enjoy it, it’s provided me with a lot of enjoyment through the years.
Man, I started cheap with lee stuff. Went to RCBS, sold the RCBS, kept the lee stuff. The RCBS rockchucker money went to more bullets and power. My loads are around .5-.75 MOA with a factory howa 308. Shit man, I could get one of those $1200 German press and not notice a difference.
If I was to do it again, I would keep the lee and just get really nice dies. Then afterward, upgrade to a Forester coax.
You should have a scale no matter what. I know people loaded for decades with just scoopers, but that's because they may not have had decent options. I loaded with a beam scale for a decade before I swapped to the new Frankford Intellidropper. That thing was money well spent. Wait for it to go on sale. Brand new, $157 shipped on black Friday.
If I was to do it again, I would keep the lee and just get really nice dies. Then afterward, upgrade to a Forester coax.
You should have a scale no matter what. I know people loaded for decades with just scoopers, but that's because they may not have had decent options. I loaded with a beam scale for a decade before I swapped to the new Frankford Intellidropper. That thing was money well spent. Wait for it to go on sale. Brand new, $157 shipped on black Friday.
That's a really subjective question. I used only Lee dies for a long time. And with those was under 1moa. Again, factory howa 308 with lee dies was .75 moa really consistently. I've been using a forester micro adjust seater for a while and it's been a marginal improvement. I'd say forester and redding are the higher end of standard dies. At least that's the way I feel about em, subjectively. I still load most of my cartridges with lees and see excellent accuracy. The main thing is, the Lee dies are pretty cut n dry, you have minimal adjustments and control. So the higher end you get, you get more control, more adjustments.
That said you can do pretty well with a standard Lee 3 die set. I have anyway, and I'm barely an average shooter and reloaded.
Right now, I decap with a lee universal decapper, tumble cases, size with lee full length die (decap/expader) pin removed), then use the collet die with mandrel to open the mouth up for the bullet, lastly I seat with the forester.
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I’ve had really good luck the the cheap RCBS dies. My load is consistently in the .3s and sometimes lower at 100. I have a set of Redding type S dies also. Makes adjusting seating depth easier but that’s about it imo. The neck tension worked out to .002 in the rcbs dies with my brass so that was nice. Not sure what others are getting
I’d suggest you purchase a Lyman Reloading manual and read it. If you know someone who reloads or you’re close to a Gun Club get a little help from another reloaded. It will save you money time and screw ups. Also you can sometimes find good used equipment cheap there. Over the past 50+ years I’d hate to think what I’ve spent. You will Not save money, but you will shoot more and hopefully better plus learn lots.
I seen quite a few people say they don’t save money. Maybe I’m in the minority but I definitely save money doing it. Good factory ammo is $1.50 each, I’m shooting it for .55 or so
What is the formula used for saving money? I notice 280 ackley brass, which is what I would be reloading is about $1.38ea (cheapest I've seen so far) and I haven't even looked a t bullets. Is it because brass can be used 6-8+ time before it is too far gone to use and you calculate price off that?
Brass expense is almost negligible. @Steel head has 30+ firings on some of his 260 brass. I’ve got 14 or so on mine and started getting split necks. Pretty sure I caused that by getting the brass too hot while annealing.
I’d count on minimum 10 reloads on the brass, add in your powder, primer, bullet cost.
All my reloading equipment paid itself off in 750 rounds or so comparing to factory ammo cost.
Interesting. I'll probably buy a piece at a time here and there. Still saving for my bolt action I'm building. I have everything ordered but the action which is the most expensive piece. My reloading adventures won't be until later this year/early next year. Still an issue of finding space in my house to dedicate to reloading as well.
shoot....get you some 30-06 brass, neck it down, and fire a cheap 7mm bullet through it at a minimum listed load, and viola! 280 ackley improved brass. i do the same same with 3030 brass for my 730. OR, you could just fire 280 brass in your rifle and then you’ll have 280 ai brass-it’d be headstamped 280 then.
always be sure to label your brass.
as far as saving money.....over time, depending on how much you shoot, maybe. but it will DEFINITELY allow you to shoot more.
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The. $ saving formula for loading....well that gets tricky.
Take me loading my 357. I have brass from previous firings. I have brass friends have fired and had no use for. I’ve had once fired brass guys at the range were not keeping. I’ve bought some. So brass can be had for next to nothing in some cases, or you could just go buy new.
Bullets. Well, you can price them out and buy them new. AND a guy can find bullets at yard sales, gun shows, online forums for much cheaper than new prices. And in some cases (as in my 357) i cast bullets. I aquire the lead through people i know and lead that i find.
So that leaves primers and powder. Here there is pretty much a constant price, as i’ll not trust any powder or primers that i didnt buy new. I have loaded 357 magnum ammo for pennies a round. Same for 44 magnum.
Like i said previously, it’s a rabbit hole that can go pretty deep. It opens a lot of options for a guy. And for the record, i didnt start out knowing and doing all this....back about 1995 i was just a young guy who’s father had handloaded and decided to get a lee press so i could load the bullet i wanted in my ammo. And it just kinda went from there.
Take me loading my 357. I have brass from previous firings. I have brass friends have fired and had no use for. I’ve had once fired brass guys at the range were not keeping. I’ve bought some. So brass can be had for next to nothing in some cases, or you could just go buy new.
Bullets. Well, you can price them out and buy them new. AND a guy can find bullets at yard sales, gun shows, online forums for much cheaper than new prices. And in some cases (as in my 357) i cast bullets. I aquire the lead through people i know and lead that i find.
So that leaves primers and powder. Here there is pretty much a constant price, as i’ll not trust any powder or primers that i didnt buy new. I have loaded 357 magnum ammo for pennies a round. Same for 44 magnum.
Like i said previously, it’s a rabbit hole that can go pretty deep. It opens a lot of options for a guy. And for the record, i didnt start out knowing and doing all this....back about 1995 i was just a young guy who’s father had handloaded and decided to get a lee press so i could load the bullet i wanted in my ammo. And it just kinda went from there.
That sounds like it could be done down the road. I watched a video of a guy form firing 280 rem to 280 ackley. Is there any damage done to the rifle when doing that? Some of the comments mentioned rifle damage when form firing. Too new in the reloading/precision rifle arena to know myself.
Fire forming is something that should be done at a minimum listed load. It’s explained in the good handloader’s manuals.
Btw....when fireforming.....the purpose is to form the brass...not chase accuracy. So do run off and use premium bullets.
Btw....when fireforming.....the purpose is to form the brass...not chase accuracy. So do run off and use premium bullets.
Some save money, some don't. Depends on how you approach it and how you add up your costs.
Good bullets run $0.30 - $0.60/round
Powder costs another $0.25 - $0.40/round.
Primers $0.05 - $0.10/round.
Per the prices above $0.60/round is possible for a 280AI with quality components if you don't count brass or your time. Counting your time and brass puts you a lot closer to factory ammo costs.
It sounds like you haven't built the rifle, yet? Why pick something as niche as the 280AI if your goal is to save money?
Good bullets run $0.30 - $0.60/round
Powder costs another $0.25 - $0.40/round.
Primers $0.05 - $0.10/round.
Per the prices above $0.60/round is possible for a 280AI with quality components if you don't count brass or your time. Counting your time and brass puts you a lot closer to factory ammo costs.
It sounds like you haven't built the rifle, yet? Why pick something as niche as the 280AI if your goal is to save money?
The rifle is being built for elk hunting. Originally was going 300Wm/PRC, then switched to 6.5PRC, back to 300WM/PRC, and finally decided on something in between. Only want to get in to reloading for it to possibly save money because the ammo, while not too expensive, is scarce in factory options. I've found nice quality reloads on Hendershots for the 280AI but it's pricey.
the 280AI is great round. you did great choosing that round, and will do great handloading it. how much do you plan on shooting the rifle?
that’s probably the first question we should have asked you out of the gate. And what is your budget?
that’s probably the first question we should have asked you out of the gate. And what is your budget?
Budget isn't a worry. I think I'm just going to slowly buy pieces for reloading one by one. Main focus is saving for the action/assembly of the rifle for GAP to put together. I plan shooting it every month at least once I have it before I try and go elk hunting in Idaho with it to get the feel for it.
GAP built 280AI... well, ok then... maybe not the cheapest route, but that's certainly a hard combo to beat.
I am having them build it primarily for the Templar action. I was going with a normal Defiance Deviant then found out the Templar V2 is the same branded under a different name. It's a personal choice I guess, I've always been fascinated with the Templar Knights. I bought the stock and barrel at discounted prices not directly from GAP. I just have to send everything to them to assemble.
Your per round savings will be less until you factor in time, travel, equipment, powder, Bullets, etc plus shooting more. We reloaded shooting Competition Skeet finally figured that with practice, competition, fees, guns, shells, equipment, etc that every Registered Target was at least $1 each. Last year I competed I shot over 22,000. Now ten years later a $4-$5 round of practice is $10 or more for 25 targets and entry fees are higher. Same thing with rifles I used to load 100 rounds for about $4-$5 now I pay $55-$80 for just projectiles.
Been loading with a RCBS Balance beam scale for a long time. Never failed me.
I see the 280 AI rounds at cabelas the other day, Nosler trophy grade 140 grain, $59.99 for 20 rounds.
I have a Dillon 550 but I don't typically load my target rifle on it. I use a single stage press.
Just my opinion you don't need a electronic scale or a progressive press. If your going to be loading 300 or so plus rounds regularly then maybe but I wouldn't start out that way. A lot depends on Volume and how much accuracy your trying to squeeze out of your ammo.
I see the 280 AI rounds at cabelas the other day, Nosler trophy grade 140 grain, $59.99 for 20 rounds.
I have a Dillon 550 but I don't typically load my target rifle on it. I use a single stage press.
Just my opinion you don't need a electronic scale or a progressive press. If your going to be loading 300 or so plus rounds regularly then maybe but I wouldn't start out that way. A lot depends on Volume and how much accuracy your trying to squeeze out of your ammo.
