Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

[Tomekeuro85]

Right now I have a stock rem 700 VLS .223

I want a .223 fast twist match barrel (to shoot 69 or 75gr), same contour as a Crusader, which I dont know what it is... Also gonna lighten the trigger and free float the barrel in the stock.

Possibly later on a new stock but for now this one is fine.

Suggestions on a barrel size and brand and who could do this for me relatively quickly?

Thanks very much.

 

[montyb]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

i'd go with a Lilja, Brux, Hart, Broughton, Krieger, ect. in Remington Varmint contour so it will fit yor barrel channel.

twist it 1:8 for the 75 Amax

 

[Tomekeuro85]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

I was also thinking Shilen?

Lilja was my other choice... I'm sure most match barrels will be so close most couldnt tell the difference.

 

[NukeMMC]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

I never shot much 223 bolt rifle, but my AR got an upper from White Oak Precision with a 1:6.5" twist, 3-groove Pac Nor barrel. 75gr Amax bullets grouped excellent, 77gr SMKs would clean 300yd prone rapids all day long and the twist let me shoot 80gr and 90gr VLDs at 600 and 1000yds with excellent results.

 

[223ai]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

I would go with a varmint or sendero contour in a Brux 8 twist, and punch it Ackley...assuming you load your own. Brux will get their barrels out fast, might have something already in stock, and their customer service is outstanding.

 

[Tomekeuro85]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

how hard is it to make .223 AI?

Can you buy .223 ai brass? or do you have to make it?

Is there significant improvements vs .223 REM?

 

[223ai]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

There is no factory 223ai brass that I am aware of, but fireforming the brass is a piece of cake assuming the rifle is chambered correctly. It really is as simple as loading a round, pulling the trigger, and extracting formed brass. Most people load to kiss the lands when fireforming, and the fireforming loads are just as accurate as fully formed loads, so you can work on your fundamentals with each shot.

The advantages of punching it ackley are that you get increased case capacity, and as a result, you can push the bullets faster. You also have less case trimming, and a very accurate round.

I am pushing 75 grain amaxes right at 3050fps out of a 22inch Rock 8 twist. from a 100 yard zero, I am right at about 14MOA in elevation to 600 yards. I like it enough that I am in the process of building another one as a purpose-built paper slayer...it'll be a hog.

 

[JPro]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

This VLS-ish rig started off as a 700SPS-SS donor rifle in 204R that I was going to built a tank of a 223AI from.

The Pac-nor barrel is of Krieger's Heavy Palma contour and measured about .935" at the 23" muzzle. With the solid-fill A5 stock that I had, it was just going to be too dang heavy and I found that less is more and moderation is generally a good thing when planning a build. I opened up a take-off VLS handle to fit the chubby barrel and had said barrel cut back to 21" and everything bead blasted.

It balances pretty well in its current configuration but I have a McMillan Remington Varmint stock ordered. Were I doing it all over again, epecially if starting with a VLS, I would do a 1-8" twist SS barrel of reputable make, have it done in factory varmint contour, likely go with flutes, and have it crowned at 21-22". That guy should weigh right at 10lbs scoped, be plenty heavy for good shooting, light enough to carry a bit, and short enough to manuever in a vehicle. No 15lb 223 rifles for me, thanks. My 21" tube gives good velocity, as I make 3050 with 75's, 3350 with 62's, and 3600+ with 50's. You would also need to cut out the spacer in your VLS mag box and put in a .25" spacer for the longer rounds. No big problem. With the factory rifle you have in hand, you could have a hammer for $500-600 bucks. A good trigger job is cheap and you can do the bedding/floating yourself. I like the 223AI but a fast twist SAAMI 223 wouldn't be hard to like either.

 

[Tomekeuro85]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no factory 223ai brass that I am aware of, but fireforming the brass is a piece of cake assuming the rifle is chambered correctly. It really is as simple as loading a round, pulling the trigger, and extracting formed brass. Most people load to kiss the lands when fireforming, and the fireforming loads are just as accurate as fully formed loads, so you can work on your fundamentals with each shot.

The advantages of punching it ackley are that you get increased case capacity, and as a result, you can push the bullets faster. You also have less case trimming, and a very accurate round.

I am pushing 75 grain amaxes right at 3050fps out of a 22inch Rock 8 twist. from a 100 yard zero, I am right at about 14MOA in elevation to 600 yards. I like it enough that I am in the process of building another one as a purpose-built paper slayer...it'll be a hog.</div></div>

Doesnt sound like too much of an effort. Are the AI's significantly more accurate? would you say its worth the extra time? Im not so much worried about speed, as this will be mainly a target rifle...

 

[223ai]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

I don't know if they are more accurate than standard .223, but gains in speed will help bucking the wind for your target shooting. It's worth the extra time for me, because I enjoy the process and the results. I am, by no means, an expert though.

edited to add: I think my dope was off on the 14moa adjustment....should be less (12-ish), but I don't have my notes with me here at work to verify...

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

Tomekeuro85,

The problem with the 223 AI, is not accuracy or performance, but cost. If it takes you 50 rounds to work up an accurate load, you will need to make 100. 50 for fireforming and then 50 for accuracy. That's double the wear tear and shooting.

Shooting more is a good thing, shooting just to fire form is a waste of bullet, powder and primer. Wildcats are always a losing proposition. More to buy (wildcats dies are more expensive), more to keep fed, and more headaches to unload when you decide you had enough.

I built enough wildcats to know. Yes, I'd have fun doing it, but mostly they were long term problems. That said, the 223 AI is one of the best out there. But what are you really buying? 150 FPS maybe on a good day....You can long throat a 223 Rem barrel (going from 2.250" to 2.60" or so), stick in a Seekins 223 mag system (2.6" OAL) and get back most of that 150 FPS, without going the AI route.

Need more velocity in a 22 centerfire, buy a 22-250. Wildcats are fun, but they will cost you $. Be sure before you buy.

Bob

PS: Wildcats I owned or built:

22 K Hornet
223 AI
263 Spence Special (6.5x57)
7x57 IMP Ackley
30/338 (338 win mag necked down to 308 cal)
35 G&A (375 H&H necked to 35 caliber)
416 Taylor (338 win mag necked to .416 Cal)

 

[223ai]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

Good post.

With a 223ai, you can get "close" to 22-250 speeds with less powder, less barrel wear, and less recoil, as I understand it. If you aren't worried about wearing the barrel out, the 22-250 would be a good option too.

Either way, have fun with it!

 

[JCH]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tomekeuro85,

The problem with the 223 AI, is not accuracy or performance, but cost. If it takes you 50 rounds to work up an accurate load, you will need to make 100. 50 for fireforming and then 50 for accuracy. That's double the wear tear and shooting.</div></div>

In the 223AI barrel life isn't as big as a concern as other barrel burners. Just ask Brad Arnett. He had a 223AI that had over 4,000 rounds down the tube and still shot less than MOA

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Need more velocity in a 22 centerfire, buy a 22-250. Wildcats are fun, but they will cost you $. Be sure before you buy.

Bob

</div></div>

The 223AI uses 1/3 less powder than the 22-250 (which was once a wildcat) and still using 55 grain bullets nearly achieves those speed levels.

 

[Tomekeuro85]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

You just confirmed all I was thinking that would stop me from doing this.

Thanks very much, very informative reply. I did notice that the dies were a lot more expensive also.

Id rather just stick with .223 Rem for now. For what I'm doing, It'll be just fine.

Any suggestions on a good smith? I was thinking to send it to Shilen and have them install one of their barrels on it in house.

 

[223ai]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

Damn, JCH posted that as I was editing my post....good data.

 

[JCH]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

and as far as resale, just how long do you think a 223AI would last on this board as long as you weren't asking for stupid money?

I think it would be gone within the hour. 223AI is gaining popularity.

 

[Asm1]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

How well does the 223 AI mag feed ?

 

[JCH]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

If you mean, How does the magazine in the 223Ackley feed?
mine feeds fine, no issues.

If you mean, How do the 223 Accuracy International Mags feed?\
I have no idea, only a select few have been able to play with them so far.

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Looking to make a few mods to my 700.

JCH,

Selling a 223 AI would probably go fast here on the Hide, but no faster than any good Bolt 223 with a 1-8" twist barrel. Put a 223 AI up for sale with a 1-10" or worse a 1-12" twist barrel, and watch it sit.

As far as the 223 AI getting "near" a 22-250 velocities, please define "near". The standard refrain of all wildcat "owners", is how they can defy the laws of physics. 1/3 more capacity with a 22-250 will always yield more velocity than any 223 AI. Yes, that velocity comes at a cost, namely lower barrel life, ain't no such thing as a free lunch....

Note: I'm not down on the 223 AI. It's a great round and very efficient. But it's greatness comes at a price, and I thought the OP deserves to know both the Pro's and Con's.

Bob