Looking to re-chamber... Short Action Remington 700 - What to do?

[MaxLoad]

I currently have two Remington 700's, one in 223 and the other is a 308. Both SPS Tactical 20" models.

I purchased the 223 to compliment the 308 for the purpose of being a learning platform since components are more affordable which allowed me to do high volume match ammo reloading.

Its served it purpose and i'm getting a little bored with it to be honest so i'm looking to purchase a barrel and get it chambered in something a bit more interesting.

The 308 has been treating me very well, but im looking for something with a longer barrel just for the added velocity and perhaps some bullets with better BC offerings. Perhaps something in the 24" to 28" range?

I'm thinking of something in the 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm arena but with all the choices im having a hard time narrowing it down with all the different wildcats and options.

I was thinking of the 6.5 Creedmore and the 7mm-08.

I want something primarily for paper punching so terminal ballistics isn't a huge concern... I am looking to shoot past 1k, but will be staying with a short action since I already have a chassis and action that fits it. What do you guys recommend?

 

[SilverxFoX]

6.5 creedmoor. High bc and you can re use your .308 brass to make brass for it long as you reload.

 

[agbm]

6.5saum 4s

 

[Cinch]

6 or 6.5 Creedmoor

 

[knockemdown]

6.5saum 4s

Different boltface.


In 6.5, I'd do a 6.5 Creed, for ease of buying match ammo to get rollin'.
In 6mm, do a vanilla .243Win with a Match chamber, throated for the heavies to run efficiently @ mag length. If that is too 'plain' for ya, a 6SLR, or a 6 Creed...

 

[Engine 22]

6 or 6.5 Creedmoor

This-----^

 

[HOGTOOTH5R]

It sounds like you're going Rechamber the .223??? If so you're probably better off buying a new rifle and the .223 Bolt Face will not work with any of the Calibers you've listed (The .308 Will).

As far as buying new I believe Savage makes a .260 Rem and 6.5 CM in their LRP Model right out of the box ready to shoot.

I'd go with the .260 Rem for ease of getting ammo and components.

 

[flatland1]

If you're talking about re-barreling the 308, the suggestions to go with either 6 or 6.5 Creedmoor are a reasonable way to go. For paper-punching, the 6mm would be my choice, simply because of the availability of extremely accurate hi-BC 105-115gr bullets that are less expensive than comparable 6.5mm bullets. The 6XC is also an excellent option, with Norma brass being available, or fairly easy forming with 22-250 brass. Either of these slightly shorter rounds are an excellent choice for use out of AICS magazines, since they'll allow heavy 6mm bullets to be seated out and not reduce case capacity. They're also more efficient than a 243, and should give marginally better bbl life. A 26" bbl will produce good velocity with either case, yet still be maneuverable.

From a purely ballistic point of view, you're not going to give up much if any advantage out to 1000 by going with a 6 vs 6.5. Either Berger 105 Hybrid or DTAC 115 at 3000+fps will stay right with a good 6.5mm bullet that starts out at sane velocities out of a 6.5 Creedmoor.

As far as re-barreling the 223 goes, that kinda depends on what sort of accuracy you're getting out of the factory bbl. If it's very good, I'd just shoot it until its accuracy tails off, then get it re-barreled with a custom bbl in 223. Not much advantage by going to a 223 AI chamber, except for not needing to trim brass, which was enough to make it worth it to me. I love my 223 AI - it's a tack-driver, even though I don't get much more velocity than I did out of a regular 223. Either way, the biggest advantage that I see in going with a custom bbl'd 223 is accuracy.

 

[MaxLoad]

6.5 creedmoor. High bc and you can re use your .308 brass to make brass for it long as you reload.

What is the process to correctly form .308 brass into 6.5 creedmoor brass? Just use a 6.5 CM FL sizing die, or am I missing a step in between?

 

[MaxLoad]

Different boltface.


In 6.5, I'd do a 6.5 Creed, for ease of buying match ammo to get rollin'.
In 6mm, do a vanilla .243Win with a Match chamber, throated for the heavies to run efficiently @ mag length. If that is too 'plain' for ya, a 6SLR, or a 6 Creed...

.243 Win is also a consideration, I have a hunting rifle in that caliber, but it gets little to no use.

How is barrel life with the when compared to the others, including 6.5 CM?

 

[MaxLoad]

It sounds like you're going Rechamber the .223??? If so you're probably better off buying a new rifle and the .223 Bolt Face will not work with any of the Calibers you've listed (The .308 Will).

As far as buying new I believe Savage makes a .260 Rem and 6.5 CM in their LRP Model right out of the box ready to shoot.

I'd go with the .260 Rem for ease of getting ammo and components.

Thanks for the .260 recommendation.

And I was in fact thinking of getting the .223 rifle rechambered. My "plan" was to have a smith do some work on the action and I would probably end up buying a new bolt with a .308 boltface to accommodate whatever I decided to use.

My 308 rifle is shooting very well for a factory barrel/action. I prefer to leave that alone for now.

 

[MaxLoad]

If you're talking about re-barreling the 308, the suggestions to go with either 6 or 6.5 Creedmoor are a reasonable way to go. For paper-punching, the 6mm would be my choice, simply because of the availability of extremely accurate hi-BC 105-115gr bullets that are less expensive than comparable 6.5mm bullets. The 6XC is also an excellent option, with Norma brass being available, or fairly easy forming with 22-250 brass. Either of these slightly shorter rounds are an excellent choice for use out of AICS magazines, since they'll allow heavy 6mm bullets to be seated out and not reduce case capacity. They're also more efficient than a 243, and should give marginally better bbl life. A 26" bbl will produce good velocity with either case, yet still be maneuverable.

From a purely ballistic point of view, you're not going to give up much if any advantage out to 1000 by going with a 6 vs 6.5. Either Berger 105 Hybrid or DTAC 115 at 3000+fps will stay right with a good 6.5mm bullet that starts out at sane velocities out of a 6.5 Creedmoor.

As far as re-barreling the 223 goes, that kinda depends on what sort of accuracy you're getting out of the factory bbl. If it's very good, I'd just shoot it until its accuracy tails off, then get it re-barreled with a custom bbl in 223. Not much advantage by going to a 223 AI chamber, except for not needing to trim brass, which was enough to make it worth it to me. I love my 223 AI - it's a tack-driver, even though I don't get much more velocity than I did out of a regular 223. Either way, the biggest advantage that I see in going with a custom bbl'd 223 is accuracy.

Excellent post, thank you.

At one point in time I expressed interest in the 6XC so thanks for reminding me; I will re-visit that option. Ill have to do my due diligence and make an excel sheet with various loading options and bullet types to see what's really going to work out best for me... I'll probably end up with a comparison against .243, 6XC, 6 CM, .260, 6.5 CM

At one point I did consider getting a Bartlin barrel on my .223, but the purpose for that rifle was just to load in bulk and have fun and learn. Accuracy is acceptable... .75 MOA being its best group I've shot, but an average of 1 MOA-1.25 MOA is more realistic. It seems to shoot better over distance than at the 100 yard line (I haven't shot paper past 300 yards). Last trip out to BLM I was getting consistent hits (like 7-8 in a row) on 12x12 plate at 785 yards in 1-2 MPH winds.. IIRC my elevation from a 100 yard zero was about 35 MOA. As soon as the wind picked back up, it became extremely difficult, but it seems to fly true.

I never loaded the .223 rifle with the care and patience I load for my 308. Loaded bulk on a progressive using 75gr Prvi match bullets...

My 308 was a bit of a budget gem to me... I bought it used, and got it shooting .5 MOA on my first ladder using H4895 with a personal best of .25 MOA @ 100 yards. Shooting 168gr Amax at about 2550 FPS. It was my first bolt action and others tell me I got a great shooting rifle considering its a factory Remington barrel & action. I'm pretty sure I want to leave that alone, at least for now...

 

[BLDTYLRY]

6.5 creedmoor. High bc and you can re use your .308 brass to make brass for it long as you reload.

Not sure you can make 6.5CM brass by reforming 308. But you can reform 308 into 260Rem.

IF you are reloading I'd recommend 260Rem but if are are not, go with 6.5CM.

 

[OF&B]

If you'd like to keep a lot of the low cost attributes of the 223, you might look at rebarreling with a 1:7 or 1:8 twist and throat it to take the 80 grain Hornady Amax's loaded out to 2.5" OAL. It's a whole new 223. There are better bullets, but those Amax's are cheap. It'll give a little better ballistics than the 308, but still be a cheap long range round. Those Amax's are not currently available, but that'll let up one of these days. I have a similar project going and found 1200 of those bullets at 22$/100 a few weeks ago.

As a 6.5 Creedmoor owner, I'd steer you towards one of the newer 6s. 6x47L is the one I'm currently looking at. The 6.5 is a serious improvement over the 308 in ballistics, but the 6s are the next step. No, you can't simply lube up a 308 case and make 6.5 Creedmoor. I've tried it. 22-250 is the preferred brass if you want to get away from Hornady and a fire forming step is required. If you start slipping back towards the Creedmoor, look up the SAAMI pressure specs. The 140 in a 24" test barrel was good for 2690 fps, and the factory box gives 2700. There might be people out there getting 2850 fps with no pressure signs and great brass life, but you're not going to be one of them.

 

[majohnson2]

The 1st point is are you planing to reload. With out reloading you limit your choices, not to state the obvious. The 6 and 6.5 class have some great round choices. Currently I have a 6.5CM, with a 308 being rebarreled to 6XC. Both have the support of factory manufactured brass. I didn't want to deal with brass forming. The other benefit is reduced recoil making shooting less taxing on the body. Both classes can shot past a 1000 if that's were your interest lie.

 

[Jim B in CO]

If you'd like to keep a lot of the low cost attributes of the 223, you might look at rebarreling with a 1:7 or 1:8 twist and throat it to take the 80 grain Hornady Amax's loaded out to 2.5" OAL. It's a whole new 223.

Roughly how many yards would that be good for?

 

[OF&B]

Roughly how many yards would that be good for?

Depends how bad you want to hit it, what you want to happen when it does, and how big the target is.

I'm at ~1500', 28.5 inches of barometric pressure, and my calculator has it going transonic (1340 fps) between 900 and 950 yards for muzzle velocities between 2850 and 2900 fps. At 1000 yards, this load will have 1mil less drop and the same wind drift as a 308 175 smk with a muzzle velocity of 2680 fps.

I have been shooting the 77 smk from AR mag length to 1km on an IDPA target and can get 70-90% hits on a good day. If the wind is bad, that'll drop to 10-20%. That load is below 1000 fps when it gets there. Like the OP, I want a little more. It also pisses me off the Amax's are so much more bullet than the 77 smk and 2/3 the price. Loading them to 2.5" from 2.26" picks up as much case capacity as going from 223 to 223AI without the fire forming overhead.

 

[SilverxFoX]

What is the process to correctly form .308 brass into 6.5 creedmoor brass? Just use a 6.5 CM FL sizing die, or am I missing a step in between?

I'm looking into starting to make 6.5 myself and from what I've been reading you trim it to length, FL size and then neck turn.

 

[flatland1]

Going back to the idea of re-barreling your 223 - I used a 1-7tw Krieger for my 223 AI, and kept the length at 26". Never did get a reamer print from Kiff, so can't quote the freebore, but it shoots Berger 90VLDs great at 1000yds when they're seated to mag length (AICS plastic 10rd mags). I've shot several 5", 5-shot groups with those bullets at 1000, and got hits on steel out to 1400yds with it during a practical steel match a year ago. Both Shooter & Applied Ballistics show them going transonic at around 1200yds @1440' MSL, which may help explain why I didn't get hits on the 1100 or 1200yd targets, but did get one hit each on the 1300 & 1400yd ones (we get two shots on each target, from 400 out to 1400yds). I doubt anyone was more surprised than I was when we drove out to check & paint steel, and found my hits on the far targets. It's pretty danged tough to spot 22 cal hits out past 1000...and none of us heard the impacts, even with electronic muffs.

Not everyone has had that level of success with the 90s - some have found them hard to tune. I know I was surprised to find that the VLDs shot this well when jumped (as they are when loaded to mag length). But that just goes to prove what the folks at Berger have been saying for several years - VLDs don't ALWAYS shoot their best when jammed.

 

[TXTransplant]

The 6.5CM is a windcheating motherf-er. You can get factory brass and factory ammo. I think it's the easy choice here.

 

[Jim B in CO]

It also pisses me off the Amax's are so much more bullet than the 77 smk and 2/3 the price.

Newbie question: What do you mean by "so much more bullet"? It sounds like you're not saying that in a good way.

 

[OF&B]

Newbie question: What do you mean by "so much more bullet"? It sounds like you're not saying that in a good way.

I was wishing out loud that I could get the Sierras for the same price as the Hornadys and a little chagrined that I'm going to get much better ballistic performance for a lower per round cost.

The 2 bullets being compared are for such different purposes they might as well be different calibers. The 77 grain smk is about all the 224 caliber ballistic coefficient you can fit in an AR15 magazine and 223 case. It's nose length is limited to the mag length - the 223 case length, or ~0.5". Several manufacturers make the 77s designed that way. For the 80s, they concede the point it's not going to fit in an AR15 magazine and the gloves come off. The nose gets longer, the BC goes way up out of proportion to the 3 grain change in weight. Is the Hornady better? Cheaper, higher bc, but won't fit in the AR magazine anymore and it's production has been suspended until things settle down. Since we're talking about bolt guns that 223 was an afterthought for and they have the potential for 2.8+" magazine lengths after you pull assorted blocks and bolt travel limiters, the 80 grain bullets come into their own and the 223 takes on a significantly upgraded personality. Same brass, primers, and powder though. I get tons of 223 brass for free, so this is a much cheaper way to play than even 308 which I also get free brass for.

 

[Jim B in CO]

I was...a little chagrined that I'm going to get much better ballistic performance for a lower per round cost.

Doesn't sound like anything to be pissed off about...LOL.