Low recoil round to 1k

[OkieMike]

Your wife told you what she needs/ wants...

Yes, she did. And after I made this post and we discussed it she is doing the typical "woman's prerogative" and is already starting to change her mind.

I'm a small guy with Brittle bone disease and I shoot 308. Here is some of my free advice.
Since she already has a 308 look to lowering that rifles recoil first. Load 155 bergers with a moderate charge of powder.

Add weight to her rifle. 2 pounds makes a world of difference in felt recoil. Lead fish sinkers in the butt or in the forearm. Lead sandbag behind the grip when she shoots.
Harris bi pod on the front swivel stud. Adds a easy quick pound to my rifle.

Get a softer recoil pad and don't sand it to fit. Leave it wider than the butt, may not look pretty but it makes a huge difference in the felt recoil.

Make sure she has excellent ear protection. Sometimes we let that slip and the blast makes the rifle seems like it kicks harder.

Teach her good recoil tech as in making sure the butt is snug against her shoulder and not free recoiling into her shoulder off a rest.

I am starting to think this is the direction we're going to end up going in.

She says she loves her .308 so we're going to adjust some stuff and see if we can make it more comfortable for her.

She said her biggest problem is when we go to the public range... The table portion of the benches are too high and the rifle beats the piss out of her because it sits too high... So I guess a "booster seat" of some kind is in order. Might look at a pad for her shoulder too.

Additionally some of the suggestions you made might be in order... Add weight to the gun... I have enough lead shot to fill the void in the butt stock.

Lighter bullets: She's been shooting 175 SMK's forever. I have some 155 Palma's we can try and run a fairly light charge in them to boot.

Anything to make the bride happy I suppose.

Mike

 

[ma smith]

Inside of 750 yards, IMHO no question the .223. It doesn't need an obscure .444 bolt like ARC/Valk, and has much cheaper components.

 

[SmartDonkey]

Just looking outside the box here....... Have you considered getting a different wife?


Don't understand the fascination with 1000 yards.... why every gun needs to be able to shoot to that distance- (That being said the first time I dabbled with LR shooting I drug my target out to 1000 because that was the distance it had to be). But if you can take that off the need list- then the 223 is the answer.

Also- the 6 BR with 107grain SMK has been the easiest thing ever for me- easy to shoot, easy to reload- and didn't even do a load development.... picked a powder charge and went and shot.

 

[DJL2]

The good news is that a modern .30 cal 155 is the ballistic equal of the old 175 SMK (better in some cases). You could twin your wife's 175 load with a 155 if you were so inclined, or very nearly, and benefit from a bit less recoil in the same rig. If you're gonna pay the 175 price in recoil, a 175 TMK or 169 SMK are better choices.

You could also drop her gun into a Manners T2A - a nice beefy stock that she can adjust to fit and very likely heavier than what she's already shooting if you're talking about filling in a hollow stock.

Related, I don't shoot off a bench if I don't have to. Benches don't have much relevance to me beyond spotting for others. They're a nice place to sit, but I share your wife's opinion that they are not a comfortable place to shoot. Most of them are setup to encourage poor form and that's even with a height adjustable stool (which any shooting bench worth a shit should have).

A .223 is a nice choice... since you're a reloader, why not a .223 AI? You can still shoot factory ammo, which is nice. Run a decently long barrel and the combination of the rifle's weight and the .223s low recoil will have your wife focused on nothing but good technique and good wind calls.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

She says she loves her .308 so we're going to adjust some stuff and see if we can make it more comfortable for her.

Has she ever tried a different, lighter caliber?

I've said it repeatedly: if I had to give up all my rifles but one, I would keep one of the .22s....

 

[NewsShooter]

.223 is a good choice.

My .223 shooting 77 SMK's takes less elevation at 1K than my 308 shooting 175's in a 26 in barrel. It's like shooting a 22 LR for recoil, winds a bitch at distance. My 10 year old nephew didn't have an issue with my 6.5 CM in a chassis shooting prone. He was able to watch the impact and see the steel ram fall at 500 meters the first time he shot it. It was the second time he'd been to a range after I built him a custom 10/22.

 

[louu]

@OkieMike what is she running for a recoil pad right now? The limbsaver pads are amazing. If your not sure witch one fits the rifle or have a not common stock you can go to their website and print out the actual size templates and match one up. Here's the sight, click the 3 line thing and select templates, download it and print it out https://limbsaver.com/pages/recoil-pad-page

 

[OkieMike]

@OkieMike what is she running for a recoil pad right now? The limbsaver pads are amazing. If your not sure witch one fits the rifle or have a not common stock you can go to their website and print out the actual size templates and match one up. Here's the sight, click the 3 line thing and select templates, download it and print it out https://limbsaver.com/pages/recoil-pad-page

It just has the factory Bergara butt pad right now. Seems soft enough to me, but I reckon that's subjective.

I'll take a look at the link later. Getting ready for surgery right now.

Appreciate it.

Mike

 

[OkieMike]

Surgery went fine. She won't be shouldering a rifle anytime soon so I/we have time to look at different options.

Mike

 

[Slickcam]

Just a thought. I know it tracks flat, at least.
204 Ruger

Again, just a thought....

 

[Slickcam]

I'm a small guy with Brittle bone disease and I shoot 308. Here is some of my free advice.
Since she already has a 308 look to lowering that rifles recoil first. Load 155 bergers with a moderate charge of powder.

Add weight to her rifle. 2 pounds makes a world of difference in felt recoil. Lead fish sinkers in the butt or in the forearm. Lead sandbag behind the grip when she shoots.
Harris bi pod on the front swivel stud. Adds a easy quick pound to my rifle.

Get a softer recoil pad and don't sand it to fit. Leave it wider than the butt, may not look pretty but it makes a huge difference in the felt recoil.

Make sure she has excellent ear protection. Sometimes we let that slip and the blast makes the rifle seems like it kicks harder.

Teach her good recoil tech as in making sure the butt is snug against her shoulder and not free recoiling into her shoulder off a rest.

All good advice but this tucky suggested makes more sense than anything else. Your already set up just add weight and a couple parts and your off to the races.

 

[45-90]

Put a muzzle brake on the 308, and a heavy or weighted stock. With 155 or new 169 SMK, makes alot of difference in recoil.

 

[Lost_Phil]

I would look at either 6GT or 6MM ARC, both will do 1000 with no recoil. The 6GT requires a bolt face of .470 and the ARC is .445, so with 6GT, you could always chamber the rifle to say 6MM Creedmoor without having to buy a new bolt head.

 

[steve123]

Another question is, primarily, will she be loading one at a time by hand into the chamber or mostly shoot the gun as a repeater?

If as a repeater I wouldn't suggest 6mmBR due to short length and case angle. And BTW otherwise it's a great choice and is what I use most of the time in repeater mode but I had to mod the mag as well as buy a spacer kit to get it to be reliable. I grab this gun more than my others and it's pleasant in every way.

No fuss repeater I suppose I'd go 6mmCM but I'd load it down some with 107's for a few reasons.

I hated shooting my 308 at 1K, the recoil, the extra wind drift, not cheap to shoot.
Preferring shooting 223 with heavy's over 308 at 1K but the wind drift gets silly and seeing splash is MUCH harder than 308. So I don't do that much anymore either except to revisit why I stopped.

I've seen it so many times I just watch and shake my head. I'm talking about the standard shooter trying to hit steel in the wind at long range with 223 or 308, lets say 600Y and farther. The bullets dance to either side of the steel because the shooter saw their last hit in the dirt, made the correction, but the wind changed again and the bullet hit on the other side of the steel. This dance continues and I see the frustration in their faces. Why??? it's because of low-ish BC bullets going slow. And granted the wind is almost always blowing where I live.

If I wanted to get fancy I'd go for a 25GT wildcat. Heavies/high BC at a moderate speed, decent barrel life, medium recoil. It's about the best balance of those characteristics. The difference between a cartridge like this is you'll be on the edges of steel in the wind vs off to the sides like I described above with 308 and 223.

The lowest recoil of a cartridge I used at 1K that didn't blow hugely in the wind was a 20x47L with 55's. A .37 BC at 3830 fps doesn't do too bad in the wind though that poor barrel throat took a beating quickly. A hair more recoil than 223 with the longer bullets. It was fun try but.....

A couple months ago, at 1143Y, on a calm-ish day, I shot my 20-221AI with 32's going 3760fps. I hit the steel more than I thought I would but it was hilarious how much the slightest change in wind would blow that tiny bullet, like 4 feet or more than the previous hit did!!! It's the low BC of .21.

Yep a heavy and braked rifle goes a long way in reducing felt recoil. I have a 23 pound, with huge brake, 6.5 Saum, that is very pleasant to shoot. A 140 hybrid at 3240 fps actually does ok at a mile and it does great closer in too.
That cartridge in a unbraked 7 pound rifle used as a plinker wouldn't be what I'd want except for hunting but I built it for low recoil coupled with great performance which it excells in.

 

[xsn10s]

Yes, she did. And after I made this post and we discussed it she is doing the typical "woman's prerogative" and is already starting to change her mind.

I am starting to think this is the direction we're going to end up going in.

She says she loves her .308 so we're going to adjust some stuff and see if we can make it more comfortable for her.

She said her biggest problem is when we go to the public range... The table portion of the benches are too high and the rifle beats the piss out of her because it sits too high... So I guess a "booster seat" of some kind is in order. Might look at a pad for her shoulder too.

Additionally some of the suggestions you made might be in order... Add weight to the gun... I have enough lead shot to fill the void in the butt stock.

Lighter bullets: She's been shooting 175 SMK's forever. I have some 155 Palma's we can try and run a fairly light charge in them to boot.

Anything to make the bride happy I suppose.

Mike

I'm wondering if having the rifle threaded for a suppressor would be the thing to do in this case.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

If 400-600 is 80% of your shooting and 10% to 800 and rare to 1k than you guys are all crazy for suggesting anything other than 223. Cheap, super easy to find on the shelf, hardly any recoil and as mentioned uses powders he already has four 308.

I'm really not sure all that work and downloading a 308 will be enough especially after the surgery if currently she can only handle 1-2 dozen 308 shots. All the 6 and 6.5s mentioned will work but why given the ranges she is shooting and recoil reduction is the main goal? Just blowing money out the barrel when a 223 will do it perfectly fine.

 

[OkieMike]

If 400-600 is 80% of your shooting and 10% to 800 and rare to 1k than you guys are all crazy for suggesting anything other than 223. Cheap, super easy to find on the shelf, hardly any recoil and as mentioned uses powders he already has four 308.

I'm really not sure all that work and downloading a 308 will be enough especially after the surgery if currently she can only handle 1-2 dozen 308 shots. All the 6 and 6.5s mentioned will work but why given the ranges she is shooting and recoil reduction is the main goal? Just blowing money out the barrel when a 223 will do it perfectly fine.

It looks like this is the direction we're probably going to go. Doc said no shooting for 6 months, and this is the 6th month. So if she gets the green light from the doc we'll try the .308 again and see how she handles it... If it doesn't work for her we'll start looking for a new rifle.

She'll probably want to sell her .308 and I hate that... It shoots lights out. Guess someone will end up with a nice shooter.

Mike

 

[OkieMike]

Another question is, primarily, will she be loading one at a time by hand into the chamber or mostly shoot the gun as a repeater?

If as a repeater I wouldn't suggest 6mmBR due to short length and case angle. And BTW otherwise it's a great choice and is what I use most of the time in repeater mode but I had to mod the mag as well as buy a spacer kit to get it to be reliable. I grab this gun more than my others and it's pleasant in every way.

No fuss repeater I suppose I'd go 6mmCM but I'd load it down some with 107's for a few reasons.

I hated shooting my 308 at 1K, the recoil, the extra wind drift, not cheap to shoot.
Preferring shooting 223 with heavy's over 308 at 1K but the wind drift gets silly and seeing splash is MUCH harder than 308. So I don't do that much anymore either except to revisit why I stopped.

I've seen it so many times I just watch and shake my head. I'm talking about the standard shooter trying to hit steel in the wind at long range with 223 or 308, lets say 600Y and farther. The bullets dance to either side of the steel because the shooter saw their last hit in the dirt, made the correction, but the wind changed again and the bullet hit on the other side of the steel. This dance continues and I see the frustration in their faces. Why??? it's because of low-ish BC bullets going slow. And granted the wind is almost always blowing where I live.

If I wanted to get fancy I'd go for a 25GT wildcat. Heavies/high BC at a moderate speed, decent barrel life, medium recoil. It's about the best balance of those characteristics. The difference between a cartridge like this is you'll be on the edges of steel in the wind vs off to the sides like I described above with 308 and 223.

The lowest recoil of a cartridge I used at 1K that didn't blow hugely in the wind was a 20x47L with 55's. A .37 BC at 3830 fps doesn't do too bad in the wind though that poor barrel throat took a beating quickly. A hair more recoil than 223 with the longer bullets. It was fun try but.....

A couple months ago, at 1143Y, on a calm-ish day, I shot my 20-221AI with 32's going 3760fps. I hit the steel more than I thought I would but it was hilarious how much the slightest change in wind would blow that tiny bullet, like 4 feet or more than the previous hit did!!! It's the low BC of .21.

Yep a heavy and braked rifle goes a long way in reducing felt recoil. I have a 23 pound, with huge brake, 6.5 Saum, that is very pleasant to shoot. A 140 hybrid at 3240 fps actually does ok at a mile and it does great closer in too.
That cartridge in a unbraked 7 pound rifle used as a plinker wouldn't be what I'd want except for hunting but I built it for low recoil coupled with great performance which it excells in.

We typically feed from the mag... 5 and 10 rounders. But I've loaded a few that she had to single feed. Really prefer to use the mag but not necessarily a deal breaker.

Mike

 

[Pharmseller]

I bought a stainless Tikka Varmint in .223. It shoots 75 gr ELDM exceptionally well. It’s heavy enough that the recoil isn’t noticeable, I can see bullet impacts easily.

Plenty of velocity to stay supersonic at 1k.



P

 

[diggler1833]

While I actually 'enjoy' the slow push of a moderately weighted .308 (kind of like shooting the rifle version of a .45 1911), wind gets to be a lot trickier. When I used to shoot 5.56 at 1K it was a "know your wind" game more than anything else.

The 6.5x47L is a noticeable step down in felt recoil from a .308, and a noticeable step up in wind deflection. It is a lot more fun when you're hitting what you're aiming at. The 6.5x47 is the largest cartridge that my 140lb wife can comfortably shoot a string of fire with.

Going to a 6GT now is another (smaller) step down in recoil from the 6.5x47, but really no appreciable ballistic advantage either way depending on bullet choice.

If I were to take a rifle (cartridge) out of the safe right now for my wife or kids to shoot at 1K...ot would be the 6GT...however, that doesn't mean that the 6ARC or any of the 6BR variants wouldn't be a solid choice either.

At some point I may play with a 22GT...but I expect to have to be on my wind game a bit more at distance.

There's really a lot of good choices these days.

 

[FuhQ]

Easy button answer… 6 ARC.

 

[steve123]

It looks like this is the direction we're probably going to go. Doc said no shooting for 6 months, and this is the 6th month. So if she gets the green light from the doc we'll try the .308 again and see how she handles it... If it doesn't work for her we'll start looking for a new rifle.

She'll probably want to sell her .308 and I hate that... It shoots lights out. Guess someone will end up with a nice shooter.

Mike

You could rebarrel to any cartridge with a 308 sized bolt face. There are different barrel fitment options depending on how much you want to spend.

A fun gun for plinking at long range is a AR in 6mmARC. I have a similar cartridge upper on my long range AR that does almost as well as my 6mmBR and the quick follow up shots can be an advantage at times, also is more fun and convenient at times when that is desireable. 95's at 2870 fps.

But ultimately most of us sell and start fresh with a custom everything bolt rifle. Nothing like a custom rifle that is reliable and purpose built!