LPVO for AR15: Sai 1-6x24 or Delta Stryker 1-6x24

[hattori.hanzo]

Hello all,

I have spent a few hard weeks choosing a LPVO replacement for my Steiner M8Xi 1-8x24.

There are now two optics left on the short list:
Sai 1-6x24
Delta Stryker 1-6x24

I am not sure if the double price of the Sai compared to the Delta Stryker is worth it? Additionally, they lost me with their BDC rectile.
One big advantage of the Sai is definitely the FFP reticle. I don't like doing quick math (under stress) at the range, when it comes to hold overs. The color, lens covers are also an advantage.
I can perhaps live with the BDC rectile and price point of the Sai, if the glass quality of the Sai is significantly better compared to the Delta Stryker.

Have any of you used both? How about the glass quality, flat image and glass distortion on both optics?

Best
Uwe

 

[JDB55]

I have the Delta Stryker 1-6. I have never looked through the SAI 1-6 though I've researched it online. They both come from the same OEM in Japan (though that doesn't mean they are exact in everyway) so they will have similarities in glass, build etc. The SAI is not going to have a nuclear bright illuminated reticle, the Delta is. The SAI will have that FFP perk at distance, for the Delta you will need to Chrono your gun/ammo and put it into strelok pro or something similar to get your holds(you should do it either way imo). For me, I wanted the nuclear bright dot and the near disappearing scope view the delta offers at 1x and the availability to stretch it out if needed (which it performed beautifully out to 550 yards on my 16" Ar15). I'm not sure is if the SAI has that magical disappearing"bezel", but SAI will likely be a little slower on 1x but better in the reticle at distance.



Here is a good review from a respected member/optics guru where he reviews the SAI and talks about other comparisons (the Stryker) near the end. Ultimately in my research and opinion the SAI is not worth the price increase UNLESS you are a person who has to have FFP. For me at 6x max magnification, I'm Normally on 1 or 6x so SFP is fine and usually SFP scopes are a bit easier to get behind (eye box/eye relief) then FFP. But all that said, both are excellent options and you won't be upset with either.

I'll add this about my Delta, there isn't any scope I can think of under 1500-1700 right now that I would upgrade too, and I've looked through the razor gen 2e 1-6. They are a bit better yes, but not double the price to my eyes.

 

[Bart]

Used my SAI during the Westex run and gun this weekend, with shots ranging from 125-500 yards...absolutely no complaints- but I am one of "those guys " that like FFP scopes very much!
It is a lpvo/acog hybrid, which i appreciate, especially at the end of the race with two 500 yard targets; easy to put the "5" on the target, pull the trigger, rinse and repeat.
JDB speaks truth, I am sure they are both great; it is just which do you value the most-nuclear bright dot or a bdc.
Sorry I don't have both for a more valuable comparison!
Jordan

 

[JDB55]

Used my SAI during the Westex run and gun this weekend, with shots ranging from 125-500 yards...absolutely no complaints- but I am one of "those guys " that like FFP scopes very much!
It is a lpvo/acog hybrid, which i appreciate, especially at the end of the race with two 500 yard targets; easy to put the "5" on the target, pull the trigger, rinse and repeat.
JDB speaks truth, I am sure they are both great; it is just which do you value the most-nuclear bright dot or a bdc.
Sorry I don't have both for a more valuable comparison!
Jordan

Well said. I definitely see a value to the FFP, if/when I get a 1-8 or 1-10 I'll definitely be going that direction

 

[Monstershot]

I was looking at these two as well and went with the SAI. Im still building the rifle it’s going on but here are a few things that pushed me toward the SAI for my purposes.
1. I figured with either one I was likely going to piggyback a red dot. The ffp SAI reticle seems better suited to longer ranges, the quick shorter range shots could be covered by the red dot.
2. The SAI reticle is not daylight bright but is daylight visible and the bullet points draw your eye very well to the center. Consequently it will likely work well without batteries.
3. The glass is excellent, and in reviews I read it was reported to be better than then the Delta, with the delta having some edge distortion.
4. SAI has better field of view. 127 vs 116.
5. I have more faith in the SAI parent company.

All that said, I have not yet put the SAI through its paces, and have never handled the Delta. So this is largely academic. Take it for what you will.

 

[JDB55]

I was looking at these two as well and went with the SAI. Im still building the rifle it’s going on but here are a few things that pushed me toward the SAI for my purposes.
1. I figured with either one I was likely going to piggyback a red dot. The ffp SAI reticle seems better suited to longer ranges, the quick shorter range shots could be covered by the red dot.
2. The SAI reticle is not daylight bright but is daylight visible and the bullet points draw your eye very well to the center. Consequently it will likely work well without batteries.
3. The glass is excellent, and in reviews I read it was reported to be better than then the Delta, with the delta having some edge distortion.
4. SAI has better field of view. 127 vs 116.
5. I have more faith in the SAI parent company.

All that said, I have not yet put the SAI through its paces, and have never handled the Delta. So this is largely academic. Take it for what you will.

This a good post. I can attest that there is a bit of edge distortion on my delta, maybe on the 1/4 outer edge with the rest of the 3/4s being excellent to the center. I did not know the SAI is 127 feet at 100 yards, The Delta from my conversion from 36 meters to feet at 100 yards vs 100 meters is I believe 108 feet FOV. One quick note, I realize people in the states don't know much about Delta but they have actually been in business longer then vortex and have a great reputation overseas (I get that SAI equally has a top notch parent company). All that to say, I believe if money is not an option, and you don't have to have a daylight bright reticle, the SAI is your bet, if you want the best bang for your buck(your that type of guy), with a more basic mil cross hair reticle with a nuclear bright dot thats gonna be fast on 1x you get the Delta. Not to throw a wrench into your plans but the sig tango 6t FFP or SFP is also going to be an option in that SAI price range and is probably the one built to the highest durability standards(it is Ipx8 vs Ipx7 of most others). The FFP won't be nuclear bright but the SFP will be according to reviews. Good luck OP!

Also, if you are looking for a deal on the SAI I would give this guy a call/email. I went through him for my Delta(they have them as well you can check prices as well as annex defense on this site) and I saw he has a "make an offer" for the SAI. Perhaps he'll give you a deal you can't refuse, worth a shot.

Armament Technology SAI Optics 1-6x24 mm FFP (Available - Make An Offer!)

darnfineshot.com

 

[hattori.hanzo]

Hi all,

thank you all for your help. This is much appreciated!

The reason why I am selling my Steiner M8Xi is glass distortions at the edges. Second is weight and third is the huge turrets, which make a 45° offset mount of my Aimpoint Micro T-2 impossible. Forth, the SFP rectile combined with a weak illumination. (3 and 4 combined makes it a no go option.)

Glass distortion bothers me most, so the Sai Optics LPVO would possibly the best choice. Maybe, I need to order both, to test them side by side.

Another important thing is, that I hate math while rapid shooting. Due to long range shooting, I am very familiar with MRAD and FFP with this kind of rectile.

Would the Sai does not have this BDC rectile, I would definitely go for it. But this fact makes the decision really hard. Second is the price point of the Delta at a very reasonable quality.

A side note might be, that I am located in Germany. So not everything is available for a reasonable price over here.

Best
Uwe

 

[Glassaholic]

I was looking at these two as well and went with the SAI. Im still building the rifle it’s going on but here are a few things that pushed me toward the SAI for my purposes.
1. I figured with either one I was likely going to piggyback a red dot. The ffp SAI reticle seems better suited to longer ranges, the quick shorter range shots could be covered by the red dot.
2. The SAI reticle is not daylight bright but is daylight visible and the bullet points draw your eye very well to the center. Consequently it will likely work well without batteries.
3. The glass is excellent, and in reviews I read it was reported to be better than then the Delta, with the delta having some edge distortion.
4. SAI has better field of view. 127 vs 116.
5. I have more faith in the SAI parent company.

All that said, I have not yet put the SAI through its paces, and have never handled the Delta. So this is largely academic. Take it for what you will.

I like what you say here and these were decision points for me as well (I have the SAI); however, the FOV values you gave for SAI are based on 100m and not 100y, if you convert to 100 yards the SAI has 116.5' FOV FWIW, just wanted to be clear.

 

[JDB55]

Hi all,

thank you all for your help. This is much appreciated!

The reason why I am selling my Steiner M8Xi is glass distortions at the edges. Second is weight and third is the huge turrets, which make a 45° offset mount of my Aimpoint Micro T-2 impossible. Forth, the SFP rectile combined with a weak illumination. (3 and 4 combined makes it a no go option.)

Glass distortion bothers me most, so the Sai Optics LPVO would possibly the best choice. Maybe, I need to order both, to test them side by side.

Another important thing is, that I hate math while rapid shooting. Due to long range shooting, I am very familiar with MRAD and FFP with this kind of rectile.

Would the Sai does not have this BDC rectile, I would definitely go for it. But this fact makes the decision really hard. Second is the price point of the Delta at a very reasonable quality.

A side note might be, that I am located in Germany. So not everything is available for a reasonable price over here.

Best be your best option
Uwe

Sounds like if you can swing it, ordering both and keeping the one you like best may be a wise choice.

 

[Twistid]

Unfortunately I have no experience with the SAI (I do have two Strykers though), so I can't give a direct comparison but from reading about the SAI I would venture to say it's probably the more "premium" of the two.

That's not to say the Stryker is bad in any way, I enjoy mine very much.

 

[JDB55]

I'm gonna throw another wrench in your plans, the new Primary Arms PLx 1-8x24 is looking like a really nice optic. I believe it's gonna come in around $1500, so a bit more than the SAI but the extra mag, the specs, the weight, FOV, the reticle etc are looking really nice. Worth looking into.



This is it in the first few seconds, albeit without illumination. The ILLUMINATION should be as bright or maybe a tidge brighter then the SAI. But not nuclear bright. Just a thought.

 

[Monstershot]

I like what you say here and these were decision points for me as well (I have the SAI); however, the FOV values you gave for SAI are based on 100m and not 100y, if you convert to 100 yards the SAI has 116.5' FOV FWIW, just wanted to be clear.

Yeah, I noticed that after I posted. I checked the Delta numbers though and the 116’ is also at 100 meters. So the same conversion would also reduce the Delta’s FOV. Damn meters…thanks for the tip.

 

[308pirate]

I have spent a few hard weeks choosing a LPVO replacement for my Steiner M8Xi 1-8x24.

Uhh....what's wrong with that Steiner?

 

[JDB55]

Yeah, I noticed that after I posted. I checked the Delta numbers though and the 116’ is also at 100 meters. So the same conversion would also reduce the Delta’s FOV. Damn meters…thanks for the tip.

Haha! Yes thats right, I think Delta is like 107-108 feet.

 

[Glassaholic]

Haha! Yes thats right, I think Delta is like 107-108 feet.

To convert the meters at 100m value, convert the FOV meters to feet and then divide by 1.093, this should get you real close to the actual feet at 100y value...

 

[hattori.hanzo]

Uhh....what's wrong with that Steiner?

It’s a great piece of LPVO but doesn’t fullfill my needs:

The reason why I am selling my Steiner M8Xi is glass distortions at the edges. Second is weight and third is the huge turrets, which make a 45° offset mount of my Aimpoint Micro T-2 impossible. Forth, the SFP rectile combined with a weak illumination. (3 and 4 combined makes it a no go option.)

 

[taboopineapple]

It’s a great piece of LPVO but doesn’t fullfill my needs:

If you're bothered by edge distortion I wouldn't get the Stryker. Mine has a bit more than something like the Razor.

 

[hattori.hanzo]

The question is how bad it is with the Stryker. That's why I probably will buy both of them.

I assume, the Sai will be much more durable than the Stryker. But this is not so important to me, since I don't plan to go to war (despite the fact that Russia and the Ukraine are not so far away).

 

[taboopineapple]

The question is how bad it is with the Stryker. That's why I probably will buy both of them.

I assume, the Sai will be much more durable than the Stryker. But this is not so important to me, since I don't plan to go to war (despite the fact that Russia and the Ukraine are not so far away).

I've never seen an M8xi, but my Stryker has more edge distortion than the P4xi and I assume the M8xi has better glass than the P4xi since it's Steiner's premium line.

 

[JDB55]

I've seen rumors that the newer Strykers since the price hike have less edge distortion. But that's internet chatter, no way of knowing if that's true or not. Mine does not take me out of the experience, however; I would prefer it not to be there just on principal, but for the price I paid I cannot complain at all .

 

[taboopineapple]

I've seen rumors that the newer Strykers since the price hike have less edge distortion. But that's internet chatter, no way of knowing if that's true or not. Mine does not take me out of the experience, however; I would prefer it not to be there just on principal, but for the price I paid I cannot complain at all .

I've had two different Strykers and one was the old moa turret model with different logo. They both seemed to have the same glass as far as I could tell

 

[JDB55]

This is a good picture from someone online of a newer one, this is mine on the rifle. Is this similar to yours, best you can tell through a picture lol(note the ILLUMINATION is on level 6 out of 11).

 

[vinniedelpino]

The question is how bad it is with the Stryker. That's why I probably will buy both of them.

I assume, the Sai will be much more durable than the Stryker. But this is not so important to me, since I don't plan to go to war (despite the fact that Russia and the Ukraine are not so far away).

It's pretty bad. I love my stryker, (older model) and for the price it can't be beat. When there's a straight line (corner of building, fence post, street light etc.) you can definitely notice the distortion on the edges.

I've beaten the piss out of mine without any issues though. This includes dropping it off of a fireplace mantle onto the granite slab below... elevation knob down. I'm an asshole, I know. Cap dented but that's it. Still going strong.

I'd be more concerned with the edge distortion than durability if you're picky about that kind of thing.

 

[taboopineapple]

This is a good picture from someone online of a newer one, this is mine on the rifle. Is this similar to yours, best you can tell through a picture lol(note the ILLUMINATION is on level 6 out of 11).

Looks similar to mine. Are you talking about the band of distortion on the edge? Here's a pic of my older one that you said some people say has more distortion

 

[JDB55]

Looks similar to mine. Are you talking about the band of distortion on the edge? Here's a pic of my older one that you said some people say has more distortion

Yeah mine is on the outer edge, mine was the first shipment to a seller here in the states of the new one before the MAP pricing increase, so technically a newer one, so the other stuff may be just rumor. Mine doesn't take me out of the experience and in shooting situations I don't see it(except long range maybe) but if it's something you just can't stand to have might want to look elsewhere other poster. Or you buy both and see what you get out of the box, if you find a good return policy easy day.

 

[hattori.hanzo]

I am from Germany. We have a return policy of 14 days by law, except you buy in a local store.

What else makes me think about the BDC reticle is, that it is also quite fast at longer ranges, once it is specifically zeroed in on ammo and barrel.
So that seems to be more of a plus for the Sai when I think about it again.
For fast shooting at different distances, numbers on the delta reticle would be very helpful. I don't want to start counting MILs when I need to go fast.

I tend to order the Sai now … thanks a lot for all your help!

 

[JDB55]

Absolutely, good luck

 

[Bart]

Keep us posted regarding your feelings re the SAI!
Hope you enjoy it, I forgot to mention that I also have an rds piggybacked on top, helps mitigate the lack of a nuclear bright dot...
Jordan

 

[hattori.hanzo]

I‘ve sent the Delta Stryker HD 1-6x24 back. It is not sharp at the edges on 1x. The reticle is kind of thick, thats a bad thing, if you want to be precise on longer distances. The dot is close to Aimpoint bright. I do not need a nuclear bight dot, since I am using an offset mounted Aimpoint Micro T2.
Maybe I am wrong … I think it has a not very flat image. It seems like having a very little fisheye image.

I am looking forward to test the SAI 6!

 

[JDB55]

I‘ve sent the Delta Stryker HD 1-6x24 back. It is not sharp at the edges on 1x. The reticle is kind of thick, thats a bad thing, if you want to be precise on longer distances. The dot is close to Aimpoint bright. I do not need a nuclear bight dot, since I am using an offset mounted Aimpoint Micro T2.
Maybe I am wrong … I think it has a not very flat image. It seems like having a very little fisheye image.

I am looking forward to test the SAI 6!

#1 If you don't like it, then you shouldn't keep it. Definitely send it back

#2 Are you setting up your diopter correctly? It will have a major impact on whether you have a true 1x or not. For an lpvo with a 1x you have to not only adjust the diopter for your eye for a clear image and clear reticle, but also for the truest 1x possible. You will need to do this meticulously whether it's a Stryker, SAI or a Schmidt and bender. There is material here on this website on how to do it or you can look on YouTube as well.

 

[hattori.hanzo]

Yes, the diopter fits, but I am quite sensitive for glass quality. That’s the reason, I’ve chosen the ZCO ZC527 for my long range rifle.
I am looking forward having a look trough the SAI 6 eyepiece and keep you posted.

 

[JDB55]

Yes, the diopter fits, but I am quite sensitive for glass quality. That’s the reason, I’ve chosen the ZCO ZC527 for my long range rifle.
I am looking forward having a look trough the SAI 6 eyepiece and keep you posted.

Gotcha, I'm not sure the SAI will be your cup of tea then, but maybe it will be sufficient. There are other options if your willing to pay the price for alpha glass.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Just buy the G3 razor. Not worth messing with the lessor options that all leave you wanting more.

 

[JDB55]

Just buy the G3 razor. Not worth messing with the lessor options that all leave you wanting more.

Do you consider the G3 razor alpha glass/not having warping or fisheye? Not being snarky legitimately asking? It seems to have more banding/fisheye because of the compromises for the 1-10 in a 24mm objective then even the 1-6 razor, just my experience.

 

[acudaowner]

I was going to say while I am partial to delta's products I had never looked though the ones mentioned and felt unqualified but thanks to the pic the gentleman posted of the scope I like it . and while I like them both for different things they offer I would go with the delta if the price was right .best of luck with and on your decision please post what you got and what you like or dislike .

 

[TheOE800]

Do you consider the G3 razor alpha glass/not having warping or fisheye? Not being snarky legitimately asking? It seems to have more banding/fisheye because of the compromises for the 1-10 in a 24mm objective then even the 1-6 razor, just my experience.

I was about to say… the G3 Razor had the most fisheye of any higher end LPVOs I tried that I couldn’t tune out via diopter. HUGE FOV though.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Its the most functional LPVO under $4500.

ALL optics have some level of parallax as its impossible to get true 1X. Its a non issue if you are shooting a red dot the way you should shoot a red dot, which is why daytime bright illum is critical.

I just got a notice for the new Eotech 1-10 for $1350. I may buy one to compare and expect it to be the best sub $1500 LPV assuming it carriess on the features from the 1-6.

 

[JDB55]

Its the most functional LPVO under $4500.

ALL optics have some level of parallax as its impossible to get true 1X. Its a non issue if you are shooting a red dot the way you should shoot a red dot, which is why daytime bright illum is critical.

I just got a notice for the new Eotech 1-10 for $1350. I may buy one to compare and expect it to be the best sub $1500 LPV assuming it carriess on the features from the 1-6.

Your definitely not wrong.

I would love to see you doing a comparison between the two, Eotech 1-10 and Razor 1-10 G3.

 

[hattori.hanzo]

Since I am shooting the offset mounted Aimpoint at close ranges, I think about to buy someting like 3-10/15x. But I have no idea what fits and is light weigt with great glass. Any ideas, like EOTECH Vudu 2,5-10X44 FFP MD1?

But this would just add weight… maybe its not the best idea.

I’ll let you know how the SAI is doing for me. I was lucky to get a SAI 6 for 1499 EUR. The prices are currently exploding because of transportation costs over sea + the war in our neighbourhood. No chance to get it below 1700 EUR in Europe now.

 

[Glassaholic]

Since I am shooting the offset mounted Aimpoint at close ranges, I think about to buy someting like 3-10/15x. But I have no idea what fits and is light weigt with great glass. Any ideas, like EOTECH Vudu 2,5-10X44 FFP MD1?

But this would just add weight… maybe its not the best idea.

I’ll let you know how the SAI is doing for me. I was lucky to get a SAI 6 for 1499 EUR. The prices are currently exploding because of transportation costs over sea + the war in our neighbourhood. No chance to get it below 1700 EUR in Europe now.

I really like the SAI6 for price/performance but for me LPVO plays a very specific role with main use as 1x and secondary as longer ranges. For most SPR/ DMR type role I prefer an MPVO with offset RDS. Most of what you’re paying for with LPVO is to get that 1x performance and if you’re doing ORDS then why not get something better designed for lower light and longer range. Those who know me know I am not a fan of supporting CCP, but pickens are slim with MPVO over 10x and the right reticle; however, I bought the Athlon Helos BTR G2 2-12x42 and I have to say, for the price this is a very impressive scope optically, if it can hold up mechanically I will definitely find a use for it, that being said I’d pay another $1k to get the same thing made in Japan with some upgrades but as it stands I don’t know another scope that has massive FOV at 2x, goes to 12x has great edge to edge sharpness and a reticle that works at low mag and at high.

 

[JDB55]

.

I really like the SAI6 for price/performance but for me LPVO plays a very specific role with main use as 1x and secondary as longer ranges. For most SPR/ DMR type role I prefer an MPVO with offset RDS. Most of what you’re paying for with LPVO is to get that 1x performance and if you’re doing ORDS then why not get something better designed for lower light and longer range. Those who know me know I am not a fan of supporting CCP, but pickens are slim with MPVO over 10x and the right reticle; however, I bought the Athlon Helos BTR G2 2-12x42 and I have to say, for the price this is a very impressive scope optically, if it can hold up mechanically I will definitely find a use for it, that being said I’d pay another $1k to get the same thing made in Japan with some upgrades but as it stands I don’t know another scope that has massive FOV at 2x, goes to 12x has great edge to edge sharpness and a reticle that works at low mag and at high.

Have you seen this @Glassaholic ? I don't know much about blackhound but this is their newer premium line of optics out of Japan. Interested in your take on this, reticle kind of reminded me of the LHRSI G2 reticle.

Emerge 2-12×44 FFP MIL

The Blackhound Emerge 2-12×44 is built for almost any application. When the need arises for a precision shot from 50 feet to 500 yards this First focal plane optic is built for the job. The Custom…

www.blackhoundoptics.com

 

[hattori.hanzo]

I really like the SAI6 for price/performance but for me LPVO plays a very specific role with main use as 1x and secondary as longer ranges. For most SPR/ DMR type role I prefer an MPVO with offset RDS. Most of what you’re paying for with LPVO is to get that 1x performance and if you’re doing ORDS then why not get something better designed for lower light and longer range. Those who know me know I am not a fan of supporting CCP, but pickens are slim with MPVO over 10x and the right reticle; however, I bought the Athlon Helos BTR G2 2-12x42 and I have to say, for the price this is a very impressive scope optically, if it can hold up mechanically I will definitely find a use for it, that being said I’d pay another $1k to get the same thing made in Japan with some upgrades but as it stands I don’t know another scope that has massive FOV at 2x, goes to 12x has great edge to edge sharpness and a reticle that works at low mag and at high.

Great point and I totally agree on what you have written.
The optic I am looking for is intended to be used on a HK MR223. In the US better know as HK 417 (with some modifications). Given to the calibre its not what I’d call a DMR. It would require a bit more powerful cartridge than the .223 Rem. I use this gun more on short rather than at mid range.

What do you think about the Trijicon Credo 2-10x36? The Athlon haven’t got so much good feedback.

 

[JDB55]

Great point and I totally agree on what you have written.
The optic I am looking for is intended to be used on a HK MR223. In the US better know as HK 417 (with some modifications). Given to the calibre its not what I’d call a DMR. It would require a bit more powerful cartridge than the .223 Rem. I use this gun more on short rather than at mid range.

Anyway, I’ve just ordered an Athlon Helos BTR GEN2 2-12x42 to compare and to check what fits best for me.

The SAI oder the Athlon will make it - we will see.

You may want to check out the Meopta meostar r2 1-6x24, it's sporting European glass I've heard is very clear and a step up slightly from most Japanese LPVO glass. Also sports a nuclear bright reticle with a few reticles. Worth a look if the SAI isn't your thing.

Meopta Sports Optics - European premium optics

www.meoptasportsoptics.com