Lpvo recommendations for shtf rifle

[Bridgebuilder34]

I’m putting together a shtf AR. I’d like this to be my one and done AR. If I have to take one long gun this one will be it. I have access to a 1,000+ yard range,The terrain around me is residential,urban but also open farm land. I’d like 0-600 yards. I’m willing to spend 1K-1.5K. I have limited experience with scopes,lpvos.



I was going to use a reptilia mount with a rmr mounted on top the forward scope ring.



My research has pointed me to these 3 lpvos below. Any input is appreciated. Thank you for your time.




Trijicon Credo 1-6x24 bdc

Razor HD gen 2 1-6x24 J-m1 bdc

Primary arms compact 1-8 plx m8

 

[Lug Nut]

I have the Trijicon Credo red dot Hunter holds .223 and the Vortex Gen II and Gen II e.

I don’t see the Gen II e on your list, but if possible, for one and done, I would go with the Vortex Gen II e.

Gen II e over the Gen II because, dot performance, much easier to use magnification ring, lighter weight.

Glass. The Gen II and Gen II e both have brighter glass than the Trijicon. This becomes more noticeable in lower light conditions. The trijicon has a noticeable grey tint vs. the true colors of the Razors. This too becomes more noticeable when the sun is below the horizon.

1X performance. The Credo is really good, nice box, but the Razor has the edge. The Trijicon ocular ring does not disappear like the famed Razor does. This too becomes more noticeable in lower light conditions. The Trijicon view becomes more “tube-like”.

To me, the Razor glass seems sharper, but not by much. Maybe this is due to the true colors of the Razor glass? Not sure.

Depth of view, and the ability to have the reticle and downrange objects both in sharp focus seems better on the Trijicon. Not sure why this is.

1X edge distortion at close ranges. The Trijicon seems to have less edge distortion on 1X, with the reticle in focus. The Razor makes me choose between the sharpest reticle or less edge distortion. Not that this is an issue. I don’t think it would matter if actually shooting at such close ranges.

Dot performance. I much prefer the red dot on the Trijicon, due to its available lower settings and smaller size. The lowest setting on the Razor is too bright for low light use. The Gen II e is slightly dimmer than the Gen II, so more usable, but both Razor dots obscure and distract. In contrast, the Trijicon dot can be adjusted to blend with the ambient low light conditions for a perfect non obstructive view. The tiny dot is there when you need it but never in the way. Razors can't do that.

It’s this low light dot issue that has me on the fence.

To my eyes, the dot on the Gen II e is round and crisp, vs the dots on the Gen II and Trijicon. Those dots seem to be less so.

Tracking. Yes, it’s a LPVO, but dialing does happen at ranges over 400 yards, especially when the glass is good. One can be more precise when dialing, vs holdovers. I’ve not yet tested the Trijicon tracking. Love the tacking on all my razors. The Tracking thread pushed me to the Razor.

Scope Tracking Test Results 2020

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Vortex Warranty is better. Lifetime no-matter-what warranty.

Trijicon is Limited Lifetime for original owner -- only 5 years on the electronics.

5 years goes by really fast…

Razor Gen II e and I’ll long for the Trijicon dot.

Not sure how the Primary Arms stacks up, but I’ll take the better 1X performance and sharper, brighter glass of a 1x6 before a lesser 1x8.

 

[Gasgun]

@Lug Nut pretty much nailed with his post.
For a SHTF gun for what you are willing to spend, the HD IIE is going to be tough to beat.
The gun that I travel with and keep with me most of the time is set up much like what you have in mind:
HD IIE with the mil reticle in a Geissele mount with a RMR Type 2 in a Reptilia mount at 12:00.
One downside to the HD IIE not already mentioned is that the reticle is pretty coarse for work out to 600.
If you truly desire a one and done solution for SHTF, consider spending a little more and pick up the ATACR 1-8.
Not just for the better glass, but also a reticle that lends itself more to longer ranges.

 

[UNRL Ghandi]

My SHTF LPVO is the Trijicon VCOG 1-8x. Does everything I need it to do and runs on a standard AA rechargeable battery. Their 1-6x is pretty good too and you can get BDC reticles for them for different grain 5.56 loads (55gr and 77gr).

 

[mark82]

 

[moosemeat]

$1500 worth of carbine classes with iron sights.

 

[Bridgebuilder34]

I have the Trijicon Credo red dot Hunter holds .223 and the Vortex Gen II and Gen II e.

I don’t see the Gen II e on your list, but if possible, for one and done, I would go with the Vortex Gen II e.

Gen II e over the Gen II because, dot performance, much easier to use magnification ring, lighter weight.

Glass. The Gen II and Gen II e both have brighter glass than the Trijicon. This becomes more noticeable in lower light conditions. The trijicon has a noticeable grey tint vs. the true colors of the Razors. This too becomes more noticeable when the sun is below the horizon.

1X performance. The Credo is really good, nice box, but the Razor has the edge. The Trijicon ocular ring does not disappear like the famed Razor does. This too becomes more noticeable in lower light conditions. The Trijicon view becomes more “tube-like”.

To me, the Razor glass seems sharper, but not by much. Maybe this is because of the true colors of the Razor glass? Not sure.

Depth of view, and the ability to have the reticle and downrange objects both in sharp focus seems better on the Trijicon. Not sure why this is.

1X edge distortion at close ranges. The Trijicon seems to have less edge distortion on 1X, with the reticle in focus. The Razor makes me choose between the sharpest reticle or less edge distortion. Not that this is an issue. I don’t think it would matter if actually shooting at such close ranges.

Dot performance. I much prefer the red dot on the Trijicon, due to its available lower settings and smaller size. The lowest setting on the Razor is too bright for low light use. The Gen II e is slightly dimmer than the Gen II, so more usable, but both Razor dots obscure and distract. In contrast, the Trijicon dot can be adjusted to blend with the ambient low light conditions for a perfect non obstructive view. The tiny dot is there when you need it but never in the way. Razors can't do that.

It’s this low light dot issue that has me on the fence.

To my eyes, the dot on the Gen II e is round and crisp, vs the dots on the Gen II and Trijicon. Those dots seem to be less so.

Tracking. Yes, it’s a LPVO, but dialing does happen at ranges over 400 yards, especially when the glass is good. One can be more precise when dialing, vs holdovers. I’ve not yet tested the Trijicon tracking. Love the tacking on all my razors. The Tracking thread pushed me to the Razor.

Scope Tracking Test Results 2020

Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle related. Sniper's Hide Training is for the serious tactical marksman.

www.snipershide.com

Vortex Warranty is better. Lifetime no-matter-what warranty.

Trijicon is Limited Lifetime for original owner -- only 5 years on the electronics.

5 years goes by really fast…

Razor Gen II e and I’ll long for the Trijicon dot.

Not sure how the Primary Arms stacks up, but I’ll take the better 1X performance and sharper, brighter glass of a 1x6 before a lesser 1x8.

I meant the E model,I’ll edit. Thank you for the input. The appealing thing to me with the credo was the price point and the 800 yard bdc. I’ll probably go with vortex cause of the warranty. My go to ffl is a vortex dealer. They said they can get me a Razor HD gen E 2 1-6x24 JM-1 BDC $1399.00.

 

[JDB55]

I’m putting together a shtf AR. I’d like this to be my one and done AR. If I have to take one long gun this one will be it. I have access to a 1,000+ yard range,The terrain around me is residential,urban but also open farm land. I’d like 0-600 yards. I’m willing to spend 1K-1.5K. I have limited experience with scopes,lpvos.



I was going to use a reptilia mount with a rmr mounted on top the forward scope ring.



My research has pointed me to these 3 lpvos below. Any input is appreciated. Thank you for your time.




Trijicon Credo 1-6x24 bdc

Razor HD gen 2 1-6x24 J-m1 bdc

Primary arms compact 1-8 plx m8

All three are excellent and you can't go wrong as far as optical quality/build quality. You have to decide what feature sets you want. Second focal plane or First. A nuclear bright dot that will be more optimized for CQB type scenarios (Razor/Credo) or a more feature rich reticle that should be more optimized for longer distances (PLxC).

For myself, I've had or seen through all three of these(not the credo 1-6 but the Stryker 1-6 which is the same scope by all accounts) and I've ended up with the PLx Compact as my do it all. I'm going to offset it with an Eotech EFLX for a bright dot, but the brightness on the PLxC is surprisingly good and the reticle without illumination (something to consider imo on a rifle in the scenario you suggest, no batteries) is excellent and quick to pick up.

The last thing is weight, it matters to some and not to others. For your scenario, imo, ounces will matter (and not just on a rifle). For what the PLxC brings at 16.95 ounces and short, it's really shocking what they were able to do with it optically. Gotta tip my hat to L.O.W. on this one, it's obviously the most up to date in what's coming out of there from what my eyes have scene on lpvos so far.

 

[Quintus]

For a truly SHTF scenario, I would strongly prefer an etched reticle option that has a bold enough aiming reticle that doesn't require illumination to pick up effectively. I would also stick with a 6x max for the best optical performance.

 

[Lug Nut]

If possible, I would choose a Mil or MOA reticle. One can learn the drops on these too.

One day you might use the scope on something completely different.

Although still usable, those hash marks on a drop reticle can become just random marks on a stick.

I chose the red dot, .223 hunter hold reticle on the Trijicon, because they don’t offer it in an MOA reticle. The drops may never match what I’m shooting, but it’s ok. Just dope it.

The Trijicon has ¼ MOA clicks vs. ½ MOA clicks on the Razor. Not sure how much it matters but looking forward to playing with it.



On a side note: MOA for the win.

 

[generalzip]

In your price range the only correct answer is Gen 2e razor. Only scope I’d pick over it is a 1-8 Atacr but the additional cost is not justified in my opinion.

 

[stefan73]

For a truly SHTF scenario, I would strongly prefer an etched reticle option that has a bold enough aiming reticle that doesn't require illumination to pick up effectively. I would also stick with a 6x max for the best optical performance.

I would look at the Elcon Specter's.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Primary arms compact 1-8 plx m8

The Primary Arms PLX is an excellent choice.
It will have some detractors as the reticle is not perfect for doing longer range target shooting on a square static range.
Some folks also whine about it not being bright enough (but I suspect they have never actually used a PLX one).

What the Primary Arms PLX horseshoe reticle has going for it, is that even if the battery goes out, you can still use it at 1x just fine even in lower light conditions for close range shots, with the battery it's as bright as all get out.

Also on 1x with or without the battery, the reticle is big enough to use for quick target shots the same as if you were using a RDS or holographic sight.
This is different than a lot of the "better" ones that are excellent for target shooting but a bit harder to use at 1x

If you are getting one, just note that the latest generation is significantly shorter and lighter than the previous generation and for a lighter AR it would be worth getting the new one over a good deal on the older generation one.

 

[W54/XM-388]

For a truly SHTF scenario, I would strongly prefer an etched reticle option that has a bold enough aiming reticle that doesn't require illumination to pick up effectively. I would also stick with a 6x max for the best optical performance.

If you are concerned with a world without batteries, again the PLX Primary Arms is worth a look.