Am I the only one that thinks the main purpose of an LPVO is being missed by manufacturers because of the following thoughts? When I think of an LPVO, I think CQB to beginning of long range about 500 to 600 yards. I think of wanting wide FOV and DOF. I think of no turret adjustments, just using MIL/MOA hold overs via Tree/dot reticle with a quick ranging function for Man/IPSC ranging functions out to 500-600. Other than illumination adjustment/knob that is automatically on/off based off of level, the only two things I should be adjusting are Magnification and Parallax- the elevation and windage turrets really only need to be to set zero. What is odd is that no LPVO has parallax (that I know of). What I think would be optimal is an optic that has a deep DOF with a parallax that matches and moves with the magnification ring or at the very least a parallax knob. What are your thoughts?
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Lucky for you there are plenty of LPVOs that fit that line of thinking. But the higher you go in magnification, the smaller your FOV will get. Plenty of cheap SFP LVPOs out there with set and forget turrets and ranging reticles anywhere from 1-4 to 1-8 power. Some people ask a little more of their equipment and want some more premium options for different capabilities.
Now where I'm at is with this newish trend of having an LPVO and then putting a burris FF3 or similar on a 45° mount, are we soon gonna see fixed power scopes making a comeback with some advancements, maybe with built in red dots, or something similar to the Leupold DEVO come back?
Ive had the pleasure of using a DEVO once, and honestly I like the concept and even like the kit other than it makes a wider profile on the gun and seems like it'd have a bit of a learning curve
Now where I'm at is with this newish trend of having an LPVO and then putting a burris FF3 or similar on a 45° mount, are we soon gonna see fixed power scopes making a comeback with some advancements, maybe with built in red dots, or something similar to the Leupold DEVO come back?
Ive had the pleasure of using a DEVO once, and honestly I like the concept and even like the kit other than it makes a wider profile on the gun and seems like it'd have a bit of a learning curve
“Some people ask a little more of their equipment and want some more premium options for different capabilities.”
Well said. I still think a LPVO is a Trijicon TR24r.
Well said. I still think a LPVO is a Trijicon TR24r.
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So you are stating instead of an LPVO just do a fixed 6-10 power with reticle in it and put a reflex site on the side? I suppose that might work, but would be quite limiting and still have parallax issues, but if you fixed the parallax at the further spectrum even though you would have a greater parallax problem from an angle perspective, the targets would be close and thus minimizing the error from a length perspective. (ie if parallax was fixed at 600 you might have 4moa error at 100 but that would only be 4 inches instead of the reverse where 4 MOA at 600 would be more than a foot. I think that is my problem with the current scopes that I have seen, they are fixed parallax at ~100-150 which are also focused for that range which means that 300+ increases the parallax and focus problem which again is really what I am talking about - the purpose of the V- variable in LPVO is we want to hit at range typically 300+ meters which means the fixed parallax/focus is at minimum 150 meters off with a maximum of 500-700 meters off.
Primary Arms makes their Platinum Series LPVO scopes with either a BDC style reticle with holds or a Mil reticle.
That being said, you have to decide what you want in your reticle.
Reticles designed for run and gun and 1X useable for quick shots et cetera, are by their nature not going to be well liked by folks that mostly want to do distance shooting at the range.
That being said, you have to decide what you want in your reticle.
Reticles designed for run and gun and 1X useable for quick shots et cetera, are by their nature not going to be well liked by folks that mostly want to do distance shooting at the range.
Im not gonna pretend to know a heck of alot about optics, never even played with a fixed power scope really so Im still learning new things fairly often. But I can figure out concepts and where I think they might be headed fairly well. People have been slapping reflex style red dots on their guns while still running a LPVO, this way they are still getting the full advantage of a red dot up close. LPVO's being designed as an almost all in one optic for 0->600yds in some cases make sacrifices at both the short end and the long end on order to cover all of it. My logic is, if youre gonna run a LPVO but then throw a red dot on, why compromise longer range performance? Personally, if I have a LPVO, it is ridinf alone, I dont want the weight penalty of additional optics when it covers everything. If Im throwinf a red dot on to piggyback, wouldn't it make sense to have a light weight fixed power that isnt compromising long range performance?
I dont know mechanically what makes fixed powers how they are, or if they can be paralax adjustable? But if the possibility exists, and to be able to do it in a relatively compact light package to work in tandem with a red dot, then it seems like a no brainer.
I have a feeling I'm about to get learnt some knowledges in here before too long lol
I also couldnt find much on that trijicon TR47R, only ended up with a bunch of pics of various triji optics, no links or anything
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Not necessary for the way I (and many others) use LPVOs: basically a red dot sight with modest magnification that is occasionally needed. A well designed LPVO gives users 99% of an RDS speed with better capability and easy of use than a swing out magnifier.
IMO the 1-8 to 1-10X LPVOs are better replaced with 3X to whatever scopes with a piggybacked RDS.
Everything is a compromise. You just need to make an educated choice based on an analysis of YOUR needs and not what others do.
Get yourself a free education on them.
Spend some hours on Ilya's youtube channel:
Dark Lord Of Optics
Most of what you will see here are some random (and not so random) thoughts on sporting optics of all sorts. I will also intersperse these with other gun rel...
www.youtube.com
You'll probably come away with a pretty good idea of what you want in a scope and where you want to look and why.
The only LPVO that I could actually use is the Elcan optics...Steiner P4XI comes close but everything else that I've tried seems to fish eye way too much...so if I do not run an Elcan...I'll go 2x-4x on the bottom end and run a piggy back RDS...
I have not tried S&B's LPVO offerings so can't comment on that....
I have not tried S&B's LPVO offerings so can't comment on that....
This seems odd to me, why would someone want 2-4x zoom? I would either get a 2 or 4x fixed. Zooming 2x just seems pointless to me. I would personally probably never use 2x. I can hit targets well without out a scope at all up to 20 yards, you just get used to point and click, T-box hits of course, likely not.
The Elcan Specter DR is a 1 or 4x. This optic with an RDS at 12’oclock is really all you need for 0-500m when using 77smks or similar with a carbine (10.3-16”).
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I think 1-6x is the sweet spot. I just wish manufacturers focused less on the mechanical side of things (making turrets track perfectly) and more on edge to edge clarity and eyebox. Add a nuclear bright dot and a simple vertical stadia in mils and I'm happy. The higher mag ranges don't do anything for me. After a little time behind the glass I've never felt handicapped as far as I can shoot a .223 accurately. No additional red dot needed.
Currently sporting the Delta Stryker 1-6x on my go to AR.
Currently sporting the Delta Stryker 1-6x on my go to AR.
There’s always some form of paralax in any optic. When optics claim not to have paralax they generally mean it’s fixed. Even red dots have paralax.
On the topic of individual skill, you really don’t want it as a CQB optic. I think the saying here is anything that can do everything, isn’t good at any one thing. Despite having to hold the extra weight for hours that is usually normal to real CQB, having to work angles and negotiate obstacles within the confinement’s of an eye box makes it not really most conducive. You surely wouldn’t have the same speed and situational awareness you would get out of a red dot or holo.
Dega47, sboone, I mis spelled TR24r. Tritium, fiber optic combo in a 1-4. Triangle /post reticle.
I will add the 1-4 Steiner issuper easy for my eyes to work with especially on 1x. Has batteries though.
I will add the 1-4 Steiner issuper easy for my eyes to work with especially on 1x. Has batteries though.
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Yes you nailed one part of what I am talking about. Don't need perfectly tracking turrets because for this optic I am not adjusting the turrets, I am holding over with the reticle.
March offers adjustable parallax on their LPVO's. FOV and edge to edge clarity is managed very well.
I just watched that video that W54/XM-388 posted and discovered that. Two things on that scope assuming glass is good 1) missing tree reticle 2) Why didn't they just make the tube 34mm? I mean how foolish was that to require some janky mount or two different sized rings.
I have a "why" question for pretty much every manufacturer
But I get what you're saying, if the objective bell and main tube were both 34mm a lot more mounts could potentially work. Typically you do not want to mount a ring on the bell; however, March made the structure of their bell strong enough to withstand the mounting torque and stress of firing, it is a decent setup and a compromise that may be worth it to many to have such a short scope. March is coming out with a tree reticle later this year or early next, but it will not be dual focal plane so we'll have to wait and see how bright it is. The Shorty is definitely geared more toward precision and long range with the parallax and exposed turrets. For fast acquisition and a nice blend between BDC and mil I am really liking the CX9001 reticle for the ATI SAI 6. For the best blend between both worlds, the Vortex Gen III 1-10x24 with mrad tree reticle is the ticket. If I could get the LPVO that I would like it would be the Vortex Gen III 1-10x24 illumination and sight picture, the March's parallax and turrets with the SAI 6's reticle With a bullpup design like my MDRx, there are not many options for a daytime scope and enough space in front for a clip on for NV; however, compared to the SAI 6 (bottom image) the shorty gives a lot more flexibility with what can go in front.
