Night Vision LWTS, CRATOS

[Evolution 9]

A few months ago there was discussion about L3 considering dumping a bunch of CRATOS on the market fairly cheap.

Today, there are 4 LWTS in the sale section (probably a first in SH history).

Is something coming of the CRATOS thing? Or?

 

[deersniper]

Someone should buy those lwts. Awesome thermals

 

[Evolution 9]

Agreed, but it’s making me wonder if the CRATOS thing is happening

Story at one point was that’s about the price the CRATOS were going to be dumped at. If so, I’d hate to blow the cash on an older design just to have empty pockets when the CRATOS were released.

 

[Choid]

Depending on how they intend to dump them, the laser on the cratos may pose an issue.

 

[deersniper]

Depending on how they intend to dump them, the laser on the cratos may pose an issue.

Yeah especially since dbags like *censored* will throw a bitch fit about it.


Why anyone would support those people that actively limit our choices is beyond me.

 

[Evolution 9]

What specifically has TNVC done in this regard?

 

[deersniper]

Caused issues with high power lasers specifically the raptars

 

[SkyScrapin]

Let me see what I can dig up on the Cratos availability.

They are neat, but kind of like the COTI in that they serve a niche role. Even still, I’d like one too.

 

[Ravenworks]

What specifically has TNVC done in this regard?

What exactly did they do?
It's a mystery

 

[SGT Fish @ChevTec Group]

What exactly did they do?
It's a mystery

According to the banned member that was unlocking raptors to full power(EliteUAS/Felipe), the other banned member(tnvc/Vic) rated them out to a either Wilcox or the Feds, causing cease and decist letters to go out. Not sure if this was before or after Wilcox supposedly got fined by the feds.

This is all secondhand info/rumors. I have no evidence or faith in either party involved. I also have no financial interest in any of this

 

[cake5150]

According to the banned member that was unlocking raptors to full power(EliteUAS/Felipe), the other banned member(tnvc/Vic) rated them out to a either Wilcox or the Feds, causing cease and decist letters to go out. Not sure if this was before or after Wilcox supposedly got fined by the feds.

This is all secondhand info/rumors. I have no evidence or faith in either party involved. I also have no financial interest in any of this

Holy crap. I sincerely hope that is not actually the case. If that is how it went down, just wow.

 

[tangloppen]

Holy crap. I sincerely hope that is not actually the case. If that is how it went down, just wow.

Well, if you spend enough time on "the-church-of-tnvc-forum", you will see a pattern where anything or anyone that poses, even a minute, challenge to their business interest, or just asks annoying questions, tend to be banned or brought to silence by oppression. So I think its safe to assume that the (now banned) member from here who unlocked Raptars, got stabbed in the back. There is no fairplay in capitalism.
I saddens me that he got banned, but the infamous thread sure makes it clear why he got kicked.

 

[SGT Fish @ChevTec Group]

Well, if you spend enough time on "the-church-of-tnvc-forum", you will see a pattern where anything or anyone that poses, even a minute, challenge to their business interest, or just asks annoying questions, tend to be banned or brought to silence by oppression. So I think its safe to assume that the (now banned) member from here who unlocked Raptars, got stabbed in the back. There is no fairplay in capitalism.
I saddens me that he got banned, but the infamous thread sure makes it clear why he got kicked.

That sure is how it feels over there. And is why I came to SH, even though I'm far from a sniper lol.

It doesn't sound unbelievable at all. But I sure wish it came from a better source. There are very few NV dealers I would go to, if I ever need something I can't source myself. TNVC runs free reign on arfcom and even started personal attacks against an independent member here that was asking fair questions. Anyone else would have gotten banned instantly.

Some of their employees over there are pretty cool. And seem to clean up the mess that gets started.

 

[Dvlray6]

TNVC has treated me right in every transaction I’ve had over the last 10 years. Over that time I have seen zero issues with their service before, during, or after the sale. They’ve taken care of every issue and request that I’ve had and brought new product to the civilian market that wasn’t there before. The training classes there are first rate. I’ve been to two- one in 2012 and one in 2021. Ill believe 10 years of great support to this customer before I’ll buy the butthurt ramblings of a guy who charged ridiculous $$$$ to unlock a Raptar. YMMV but those are my thoughts.

 

[deersniper]

Yeah I bought a $13000 thermal 10-15 years ago and it was a turd with multiple issues and they were less than helpful. I paid a ton of money shipping and getting it repaired

 

[Pbjunkiee]

Not a fan of the CRATOS, it is cool and all, but the FOV is sooooo wide it sucks as a clip on. Would rather have a skeetx or utmx

 

[TNVC_Augee]

TNVC had nothing to do with any cease and desist or other actions taken against a recently banned vendor.

Said vendor was inclined towards conspiracy theories against him, and I suppose in his mind connected the dots between the fact that he received a cease and desist around the same time we announced that we had become a Master Dealer Representative for Wilcox Industries, which fit his vast underground NV industry cabal worldview, with TNVC at the center of it all.

Ironically, much of this stems from us at one point refusing to take a phone call from him because we felt that it would not be in our best interests to have any association with him, a lesson that others have since learned.

Are we protective of our company and our reputation? For sure. Perhaps too zealously for some, and maybe that rubs some people the wrong way.

Accusing us of having the keys to some secret conspiracy is another thing entirely. Frankly sometimes I wish we had as much power as folks accuse us of (that’s a joke, guys). We’ve had our fair share of ups and downs, we’ve made mistakes along the way, and there are folks out there that don’t like us or even hate us for a variety of reasons. We’re a company like any other whose success is the result of hard work over many years and a commitment to education and pushing the industry forward, and we were one of, if not the first company in the night vision industry to makes commercial sales a central pillar of our business and not just an afterthought to government sales.

Love us, hate us, don’t care about us; take it for what you will.

~Augee

 

[Evolution 9]

Thanks for chiming in, Augee.

while you’re here, and since TNVC is clearly connected with L3. Can you address the issue?

TNVC brought a lot of great NV from L3 to the commercial market recently. I was surprised thermal wasn’t part of that arrangement... can you enlighten us?

 

[SGT Fish @ChevTec Group]

Thanks for the response Augee. If rumors stay backroom, they don't get addressed and continue to spread.

I will say I have not had a single bad interaction with any TNVC EMPLOYEE. or have I seen anything bad from one of their EMPLOYEES. I believe they do work hard for their customer satisfaction.

 

[deersniper]

Lol you think they are just going to say yea we encouraged Wilcox and or the feds to go after the hi power lasers cause it cuts into our low power sales ?

 

[Evolution 9]

I don’t know what did or didn’t happen. I DO know that the number of FP RAPTARs that were available literally wouldn’t make any noticeable difference at all on the TNVC books.

 

[Bravo6niner]

Quick google search I did a few years ago about Luna elir’s sure brought up a bunch of threads with tnvc bad mouthing the Luna’s and the legality/ethics of them. Really doesn’t make me a difference either way but it did kinda give me a sour taste of them while researching luna’s.

 

[deersniper]

It would seem logical that they brought Agent Wu to ar15.com.

SMFH.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Quick google search I did a few years ago about Luna elir’s sure brought up a bunch of threads with tnvc bad mouthing the Luna’s and the legality/ethics of them. Really doesn’t make me a difference either way but it did kinda give me a sour taste of them while researching luna’s.

Yeah, 3 guesses on who notified the FDA about the Luna's.

 

[Choid]

Yeah, 3 guesses on who notified the FDA about the Luna's.

Aren't the Lunas the same now as they ever were? I know there was a slight change in diode, but not to one without a filter.

 

[TNVC_Augee]

I’ve been asked... told really, not to participate on this forum by certain entities, so I’m likely not long for this board.

So I guess that makes me a “rogue agent.” Running secret internet forum cabals and crushing competitors is hard work. Whew.

Y’all can and will believe what you want about TNVC, re-keyed RAPTARs, the Luna ELIR, Agent Wu, or AR15.com, as it’ll be met with a “nuh uh” by some folks that have already made up their minds that TNVC sucks and must be crooked no matter what they say. Sorry you had a bad experience or don’t like our online presence, or whatever it was/is, I wish we could make everyone 100% happy, but I know that’s unrealistic as a business. I wish you well.

Here is a fact:

At the earliest possible opportunity, TNVC brought the previously “restricted” BNVD (PVS-31A), BNVD-1531, and GPNVG to the open commercial market—not just to sell to our buddies, or “on the down low,” you no longer needed to “know a guy who knows a guy,” and essentially dropping the “the market value” of used PVS-31As by $4,000 and GPNVGs by $10,000 overnight.

Don’t like those systems? Don’t think they should have been restricted in the first place? Don’t think they’re worth the money? All that’s fine and all those are things that are outside of our control (man, what a terrible cabal we are).

Nevertheless, people want them and we could have made money hand over fist continuing to sell them at the “market value.” Instead we priced them at far below, yet still with enough room for dealer pricing, military and first responder discounts, and the works. And yet weirdly I never see the guys who were giving each other “bro deals” at $15-18,000 a set with no spec sheets or warranty and wanted to keep the supply constricted so they could “flex” with their “I can have it but you can’t” toys getting pilloried being greedy.

But sure, it’s TNVC trying to stuff out of people’s hands.

Honestly, we sell Class I lasers faster than the manufacturers can build them. If anything, the “gray” market lasers, Persts, etc. help us keep up with demand, no one loves 2-6 month + lead times on product, least of all us, it’s bad for business. That or “drop culture” models which favor troglodytes who live on their phones and refresh their e-mails and Instagram constantly at 3AM to catch the latest “in stock” notification instead of the working man.

Man, I’m a horrible Rogue Agent, too. Add that to my list of crimes, I guess.

Maybe I need to go find more dick memes or something.

~Augee

 

[TNVC_Augee]

P.S. Per the terms of my “banishment” from here, I no longer really monitor or read or even ever log on here, so I apologize in advance to anyone who tries to ask an actual question or is looking for a response from me.

I got sent a link to this thread asking about accusations being made, but worry not, I shall fade away again soon, and y’all needn’t worry more about my interference in your Safe Space.

Those that want to reach me are of course always welcome to e-mail me at [email protected]

~Augee

 

[Dvlray6]

I agree with you. The hater‘s claims are based only on unsubstantiated and likely made up claims by folks with another agenda. I wish they would provide proof other than innuendo or keep quiet. For my part, im just a decade long happy customer who has bought much gear from TNVC as well as other suppliers. TNVC has made formerly restricted items available to me with full support. My hat’s off to them. That said, competition is good for consumers so I do keep my mind open and whoever gives me the best product at the best price with the best support will earn my $.

 

[Evolution 9]

Yep, unless substantiated, those claims mean nothing to me.

Back to the topic at hand...

An industry insider told me (today) that there is SOME truth to the CRATOS rumors, but indicated that it may not shake out the way I’m imagining.

He probably wasn’t allowed to say more than that and I’ve conveyed what he said as accurately as possible.

Sounds like a person shouldn’t make purchasing/waiting decisions based on the CRATOS possibility.

 

[DownRangeThermal]

There will be far far better alternatives to the Cratos in the next 9 months (or less). Cratos is significantly outdated and a large majority of them were sold at an extreme discount to L3 employees back in early 2020. If you could pick one up for around 5-6k I'd say go for it but if you can be patient ...you will be in a happy place