M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

K

KevinB-KAC

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 4, 2010
346
3
54
Northern Virginia, USA
www.knightarmco.com
#1
While I've known about this for a bit, it was recently public, and posted on ARF and other sites


Subject: M110 SEMI-AUTOMATIC SNIPER SYSTEM FULL FIELDING APPROVAL//

UNCLASSIFIED//
MSGID/GENADMIN,USMTF,2007/COMMARCORSYSCOM QUANTICO VA IWS(UC)/F002//
SUBJ/M110 SEMI-AUTOMATIC SNIPER SYSTEM FULL FIELDING APPROVAL//
REF/A/MSGID:MSG/DTG 311914Z AUG 10//
AMPN/REF A DESCRIBES MARCORSYSCOM'S INTENT TO FIELD THE M110
SEMI-AUTOMATIC SNIPER SYSTEM (SASS)//
POC/xxxxxxx/CIVILLIAN/UNIT:MARCORSYSCOM/NAME:MCB QUANTCIO VA
/TEL:703-xxxxxx//
POC/XXXXXXXX/CAPT/UNIT:MARCORSYSCOM/NAME:MCB QUANTICO VA
/TEL:703-XXXXX//
GENTEXT/REMARKS/1. THE M110 SASS HAS BEEN APPROVED FOR FULL FIELDING.
2. SYSTEM DESCRIPTION.
2.A. THE M110 SASS IS A 7.62MM PRECISION SEMI-AUTOMATIC RIFLE. THE
SASS WILL PROVIDE OPERATORS WITH THE ABILITY TO ACCURATELY ENGAGE
TARGETS OUT TO 800 METERS. IT WILL BE FIELDED TO AUGMENT THE M40A5
SNIPER RIFLE ON A ONE-FOR-ONE BASIS, AND TO REPLACE THE M39 ENHANCED
MARKSMAN RIFLE (EMR) AND THE MK11 MOD 1 SNIPER RIFLE. THE SASS USES
THE M8541A SCOUT SNIPER DAY SCOPE (SSDS).
2.B. ADMINISTRATIVE INFORMATION FOR THE M110 SASS.
2.B.1. THE TABLE OF AUTHORIZED MATERIAL CONTROL NUMBER IS E01037M.
2.B.2. THE NATIONAL STOCK NUMBER IS 1005-01-586-0114.
2.B.3. THE ITEM DESIGNATOR IS 11920A.
3. FIELDING. FIELDING OF THE SASS WILL PROCEED IN TWO PHASES.
3.A. PHASE I.
3.A.1. PHASE I WILL CONSIST OF FIELDING TO FILL UNIT TABLE OF
EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS (UTR) FOR DEPLOYING UNITS TO MARINE SCOUT
SNIPERS, AS WELL AS TO SELECT SCHOOLHOUSES WHERE FORMAL SNIPER AND
DESIGNATED MARKSMEN TRAINING TAKES PLACE.
3.A.2. PHASE I WILL COMMENCE DURING 2ND QUARTER FY 11 AND WILL BE
COMPLETE DURING 4TH QUARTER FY11.
3.B. PHASE II.
3.B.1 PHASE II WILL CONSIST OF FIELDING TO FILL UTR DEFICIENCIES FOR
DEPLOYING INFANTRY BATTALIONS THAT WERE NOT FIELDED DURING PHASE I,
AND TO REPLACE THE M39 EMR ON A ONE-FOR-ONE BASIS. QUANTITIES TO
FILL WAR RESERVE MATERIEL REQUIREMENT (WRMR) AND DEPOT MAINTENANCE
FLOAT ASSEMBLY (DMFA) REQUIREMENTS WILL ALSO BE FIELDED DURING THIS
PHASE.
3.B.2. FIELDING TIMELINES FOR PHASE II WILL BE DICTATED BY FOLLOW-ON
CONTRACT AWARD DATES FOR THE M110 SASS. CONTRACT AWARD FOR THE
REMAINING 785 SYSTEMS IS ANTICIPATED DURING 4TH QUARTER FY11.
FIELDING FOR THIS PHASE IS ANTICIPATED TO BEGIN DURING 1ST QUARTER
FY12 AND TO BE COMPLETE DURING 4TH QUARTER FY12.
3.C. THE PRIORITY OF FIELDING IS BASED ON THE COMMANDANT'S FIELDING
PRIORITY GUIDANCE, UNIT DEPLOYMENT SCHEDULES, AND AVAILABLE TIME TO
TRAIN. A DETAILED NET/FIELDING SCHEDULE CAN BE FOUND IN THE FIELDING
PLAN (SEE PARAGRAPH 6.B.); HOWEVER, PLANNED DATES ARE SUBJECT TO
CHANGE BASED ON GAINING UNIT TIMELINES.
4. REPLACED WEAPON SYSTEMS/EQUIPMENT DISPOSAL.
4.A. REPLACEMENT OF M39 EMR.
4.A.1. DURING PHASE II, GAINING UNITS WILL BE FIELDED THE SASS AS A
DIRECT ONE-FOR-ONE REPLACEMENT FOR THE M39. PRIOR TO FIELDING, THE
UNIT WILL SUBMIT A WIR REQUEST VIA THE WIR ON LINE PROCESS HANDLER
(WOLPH) SYSTEM FOR M39 RIFLES. DISPOSITION INSTRUCTIONS ISSUED BY THE
MARCORLOGCOM PEI MANAGER WILL DIRECT THE RETURN TO FSD, ALBANY, OF
M39 RIFLES ALONG WITH ASSOCIATED SCOPES AND COLLATERAL MATERIAL.
4.A.2. THIS PROCESS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL THE UNIT IS IN RECEIPT OF ITS
ALLOWANCE OF M110 RIFLES AND HAS ZERO (0) M39 RIFLES ON HAND.
4.B. DISPOSAL OF MK11 MOD1 RIFLE.
4.B.1. AS THE MK11 MOD1 WAS FIELDED UNDER AN URGENT UNIVERSAL NEED
STATEMENT (UUNS) AND IS NO LONGER PRODUCED BY THE MANUFACTURER, THE
SYSTEM IS NOT SUPPORTABLE.
4.B.2. MK11 RIFLES THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN USE IN THEATER OPERATIONS
MAY BE RETAINED BY USING UNITS UNTIL FIELDING OF THE M110 SASS IS
COMPLETE. FOR MK11 RIFLES THAT REACH THE END OF THEIR SERVICE LIVES,
THE UNIT WILL SUBMIT A WIR REQUEST.
4.B.3. DISPOSITION INSTRUCTIONS ISSUED BY THE MARCORLOGCOM PEI
MANAGER WILL DIRECT THE RETURN TO FSD, ALBANY, OF MK11 RIFLES ALONG
WITH ASSOCIATED COLLATERAL MATERIAL. UNITS WILL NOT RECEIVE A
ONE-FOR-ONE REPLACEMENT FOR MK11 RIFLES THAT ARE RETURNED VIA WIR.
4.B.4. THIS PROCESS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL M110 FIELDING IS COMPLETE, AT
WHICH POINT UNITS WILL BE NOTIFIED TO TURN IN ALL REMAINING MK11 MOD1
RIFLES TO FSD ALBANY FOR DISPOSAL.
5. NEW EQUIPMENT TRAINING (NET).
5.A. NET IS REQUIRED FOR THE M110 SASS SYSTEM. THE NET SCHEDULE HAS
BEEN COORDINATED WITH EACH MEF, MARFORRES AND MARFORSOC TO COINCIDE
WITH, OR PRECEDE THE INITIAL FIELDING TO THE APPLICABLE SUBORDINATE
UNITS. DETAILS REGARDING THE NET CAN BE FOUND IN THE M110 SASS NET
PLAN.
5.B. BOTH OPERATOR AND MAINTAINER TRAINING WILL BE PROVIDED AT THE
BATTALION LEVEL. LESSON PLANS FOR BOTH OPERATORS AND MAINTAINERS
HAVE BEEN WRITTEN BY MARCORSYSCOM NET TEAM PERSONNEL, AND WILL BE
PROVIDED TO GAINING UNITS IN HARD COPY AND ELECTRONIC FORM DURING
TRAINING. THE COURSE WILL FOLLOW A TRAIN-THE-TRAINER FORMAT.
6. PUBLICATIONS
6.A. TECHNICAL MANUALS ARE AVAILABLE ONLINE VIA THE MARINE CORPS
TECHNICAL PUBLICATIONS WEBSITE. ADDITIONALLY, A HARD COPY OF THE
OPERATOR MANUAL WILL BE FIELDED WITH EACH M110 SASS AND HARD COPIES
OF THE MAINTENANCE MANUAL WILL BE FIELDED TO EACH BATTALION AND
INTERMEDIATE MAINTENANCE ACTIVITY.
6.A.1. OPERATOR MANUAL. PUBLICATION NUMBER: TM 11920A-OR,
PCN: 184 119200 00
6.A.2. MAINTENANCE MANUAL. PUBLICATION NUMBER: TM 11920A-OI, PCN:
184 119201 00.
6.B. THE FIELDING PLAN IS ALSO AVAILABLE ONLINE VIA THE MARINE CORPS
TECHNICAL PUBLICATIONS WEBSITE. PCN: 132 119200 00.
6.C. THE WARRANTY SUPPLY INSTRUCTION IS ALSO AVAILABLE ONLINE VIA THE
MARINE CORPS TECHNICAL PUBLICATIONS WEBSITE.
PCN: 163 119200 00.
7. ACTION
7.A. MARFORS
7.A.1. REQUEST THAT MARFORS TRANSMIT THIS MESSAGE TO THEIR
SUBORDINATE COMMANDS.
7.B. MARCORLOGCOM
7.B.1. REQUEST THAT MARCORLOGCOM PROVIDE DISPOSITION INSTRUCTIONS IN
RESPONSE TO WIR REQUESTS FOR MK11 MOD1 RIFLES. DISPOSITION
INSTRUCTIONS SHOULD DIRECT THE RETURN TO FSD, ALBANY, OF MK11 MOD1
RIFLES WITH THE ASSOCIATED SCOPES AND SUPPRESSORS.
7.B.2. DURING PHASE II, REQUEST THAT MARCORLOGCOM PROVIDE DISPOSITION
INSTRUCTIONS IN RESPONSE TO WIR REQUESTS FOR M39 EMR RIFLES.
DISPOSITION INSTRUCTIONS SHOULD DIRECT THE RETURN TO FSD, ALBANY, OF
M39 EMR RIFLES WITH THE ASSOCIATED SCOPES AND COLLATERAL EQUIPMENT.//



Wither the M-14
smirk.gif
 
#2
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

As I am ignorant of the Marines' Tables of Organization and Equipment and Distribution Allowances, what is the breakdown -- to school trained snipers and DMs only, or snipers and per-battalion (non-MOS specific)?

Is there a separate Marine DM designator, or a "Hey, you" by numbers authorized per battalion? Is it an infantry-only allowance?

Thanks anyone.
 
#3
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

Good question sinister- I can't speak to the corp's set-up, but they Army uses DM's as well. In Army use, there are no "slots" per-say for DM's, it's more of an additional duty assigned based on whatever the chain of command decides to base it on. There are also no organization stipulations as to DM's- some units may not have any, some units may have one per squad or even one per fire-team. Thus far, weapons used by DM's have not been standardized; it's been anything from AMU build DM rifles in 5.56mm, M14's, to M110's. A commander puts in a request for additional rifles of whatever type and if the powers that be determine there is a legitimate need and the weapons are available, they get what they ask for. Or in the case of some divisions, the decision is made at a higher level that they will build their DM program and make extensive use of DM's- that division may mandate all line infantry companies have one DM per squad, and they may even provide DM specific guns to fill that mandate (such as the AMU guns built for, I believe 25th ID).

The army does not carry an ASI (additional skill identifier) for SDM trained soldiers, and given that I would doubt greatly if the Corps had a DM designator since they focus much more on unit training than school house training/certification

Rumor has it that on the army side, M110's are starting to replace M14's more and more for the DM role.
 
#6
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

LMAO . . . whether they are approved or actually fielded, thats the real question. M110's cost money to field, M-14 don't cost near as much with current inventory levels in service. Whats that old saying, "Wish in one hand . . . something in the other."

I'll take a WAG at it, M4 will be staying awhile. Same reasons as above.
 
#7
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

DP425,

Mr sinister is one of a few that started the US Army SDM program at field grade level. He understands it better than you would know. He was also the commander of the USAMU and the US Army Golden Knights to name just a few small units he was with.

John
 
#8
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

I USMC took delievery of 250 M110 last month, and is getting aprox 75 a month for the next while, intial contract was for 803 systems, I am not sure of the follow on numbers.

The USMC had funding for aprox 2,600 systems I was told last year when they brought the REPR requirement forward.

From what the USMC PM-IW said all M-14/M-37 EBR systems in the Corps where scheduled to be replaced by the M110 for DM roles, I have no idea on the employment and provisionment of that role however. The Mk11 Mod1 and Mod0 systems the Corps had sourced will also be replaced by the SASS, and additional units will go to augment the SS elements.
 
#9
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

As to the USMC DM question, in our unit (3/8) it was a "Hey, who isn't a boot and has a high expert qual? Ok you are our DM." Go to a 3 day familiarization "course". They then handed you the Mk11 and your Pelican of equipment, learned how to use the scope, zeroed the weapon and then did weapon PT and took a few shots from 100-600 yards and then we were done. We wer taught by STA. They were pulled out for pictures only because no one was comfortable enough using it and we didn't have any one capable of teaching us what we needed to know. However this was in 07/08. But from what I understand, and after asking a few Marine's that are still in, there is still no "official" DDM course. As to the HK question, there are currently HK's in theater, as to how many, I don't know. There was even an AFN special on them and how the Marines using them liked them! lol
 
#10
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I am ignorant of the Marines' Tables of Organization and Equipment and Distribution Allowances, what is the breakdown -- to school trained snipers and DMs only, or snipers and per-battalion (non-MOS specific)?

Is there a separate marine DM designator, or a "Hey, you" by numbers authorized per battalion? Is it an inafntry-only allowance?

Thanks anyone. </div></div>

All I will say is I never saw a full T/O of school trained snipers - this was back in 99-01.

H&S COMPANY, INFANTRY BATTALION PREPARED: 99/02/01

30 SCOUT SNIPER PLT CMDR LT 0203 M O 1
30A SNIP PLT SGT SSGT 8541 M E 1
30B CHIEF SCOUT SNIP SGT 8541 M E 1
30C SCOUT SNIPER SGT 8541 M E 3
30D SCOUT SNIPER CPL 8541 M E 4
30E SCOUT SNIPER LCPL 8541 M E 8
 
#11
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DP425,

Mr sinister is one of a few that started the US Army SDM program at field grade level. He understands it better than you would know. He was also the commander of the USAMU and the US Army Golden Knights to name just a few small units he was with.

John </div></div>


Ahhh well then, guess my explanation was 100% unwarranted!
 
#12
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

Are dedicated military sniper units likely to move away from bolt action to semi-auto rifles ? Has the gap between the two narrowed enough to make the semi-auto a viable alternative in the eyes of both the user and procurer ?
 
#13
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

TJ, We will still have a bolt gun. The M24s are being upgraded to 300s with a new Leupold with a H58 reticle and Rem's modular stock. Also the PSR is in the works (also a bolt gun). Our intent is to have the 110s and bolt guns. This would help as the spotter could carry the 110 and the shooter could have a bolt gun....or whatever combo you could come up with. That help any?
 
#15
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

Thanks, it does. So I guess eventually the bolt action will eventually be done away with ? That would be a shame but times change i suppose and i'm presuming what SF does today, everyone else does t'row.
 
#16
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

TJ, it will not be done away with. Lowlight is right about SOCOM using it first. We first recieved them a in 07 at the sniper school and now train on both the 24 and 110....Have you seen the PSR requirements? It will end up looking something like the Rem MSR. Im not saying that Rem is going to win but thats what they built it for. There are several in the competition. Its to fill the current "gap" between 800 and 1500m. I calls for "90% of all shots fired will fall within a 1.5 MOA vertical spread at 1,500 meters"
 
#17
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

hey everybody, im a long time lurker first time poster. this topic finally got me to join hahah. im ex-army and carried an m-24, and i always felt a lil bit naked out in the sticks with a bolt gun. i for one wished that i could have had a semi auto, and sometimes even carried my m-4 in my ruck in two pieces because of this. i wouldnt be sad to see bolt guns leaving personally.
 
#18
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

sorry for the double post, but i noticed that j boyette was in the 325th a.i.r. that was my unit, well specifically the 2-325 air scout platoon. what batallion where you in j? if you dont mind me askin. i also had a good friend in the golden knights, crazy what a small world it is.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DP425,

Mr sinister is one of a few that started the US Army SDM program at field grade level. He understands it better than you would know. He was also the commander of the USAMU and the US Army Golden Knights to name just a few small units he was with.

John </div></div>
 
#19
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: battle-scarred</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hey everybody, im a long time lurker first time poster. this topic finally got me to join hahah. im ex-army and carried an m-24, and i always felt a lil bit naked out in the sticks with a bolt gun. i for one wished that i could have had a semi auto, and sometimes even carried my m-4 in my ruck in two pieces because of this. i wouldnt be sad to see bolt guns leaving personally. </div></div>

Your last sentance is blasphemy, I say to you "la la la la la" while I plug my ears.
 
#20
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

im sorry man, im just sayin that it sucks to only have a bolt gun when you are in the shit. i own several bolt guns and love shooting them. they are a tool just like any other weapon, and they have their place. however, i support any new technology that gives our guys in the field that more more of a chance of survival. sheesh im already pissin people off lol...
 
#21
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

My question would be, why hand carry your bolt gun and have your M4 in your ruck in 2 pieces?

If you were afraid of taking contact why wouldnt you strap down the M24 and have your M4 in hand. Then when you are in a location suitable of employing the M24, do so.

The M24 wasnt designed to be a weapon used during a movement to contact. It doenst lend itself to gaining fire superiority.
 
#22
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

knight, you are ALWAYS afraid of taking contact. true, there are times when it is more and less likely, but it is always something to be considered. i often did carry the m-4 until the long gun was needed, and to be realistic, most of the targets i was presented with could easily have been taken with the m-4. i guess thats why im in favor of just having semi- auto rifles in the first place. sure, bolt guns are more accurate, but how accurate do you really need to be in most situations? as a sidenote, the m-24 is not that easy to just "strap down" while the m-4 fits neatly into a ruck.
every situation is unique, i just feel that most situations can be handled by a semi. just my two cents mang.
 
#24
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Paging H20Man! The M14 is under attack! </div></div>

No real news here, the M39 was a stop-gap experiment for the USMC.

enhanced-marksmanship-rifle.jpg


Remember that we are talking about a relatively small number of rifles and that the M39 was
never fully developed like the ARMY TACOM M14 EBR-RI and SEI rifles that are still in production.


Congratulations to KAC and best of luck to the USMC... Long live the M14.
 
#25
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

gawd, look at how uncomfotable that troop is while trying to look through the scope with his helmet on. even looking downhill, imagine if he was aiming at an uphill objective from the prone. he is wearing the new helmet to. the old one was even worse. thats why the boonie hat is the ticket. bla bla bla
 
#26
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

I'm sure the photo was posed- they always want you wearin your brain bucket for their "jerk-me off at the bn or brigade staff jerk-off MEATings" God forbid you shoot comfortably.
 
#27
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

Ah! I'm remembering those times when I was forced to wear my brain bucket and had to use the top rim of my eyepiece to keep it from covering my eyes...especially fun when prone and the back of your IBA rides up and turns the front of your helmet into a visor.
 
#28
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

Hey Kevin, I was wondering if any of the newer M110's will get the benefits or enhancements that you guys have made to the ENHANCED line, carbine and rifle. Jeff.
 
#31
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wonder if that upper will work on an Armalite lower. It looks like the Armalite pattern with the "other" mag... </div></div>

I hear that the Armalite and the KAC uppers/lowers do not interchange. Close but not close enough.

Wow the USMC is getting some cool new gear. Of course they wait till I get out to get anything nice. Must have known that I would have broken it while I was in.
 
#33
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in US

Jeff, I hear ya - the M110 is so 90's. Having used the M110 and shot the SR25-EMC, I'd take the EMC any day of the week. It is the most refined 308 AR on the market. I think that Kevin has some posts demonstrating the EMC has the 800 meter capability that the Marines are looking for despite the 16" barrel.
 
#34
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hiddenshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TJ, it will not be done away with. Lowlight is right about SOCOM using it first. We first recieved them a in 07 at the sniper school and now train on both the 24 and 110....Have you seen the PSR requirements? It will end up looking something like the Rem MSR. Im not saying that Rem is going to win but thats what they built it for. There are several in the competition. Its to fill the current "gap" between 800 and 1500m. I calls for "90% of all shots fired will fall within a 1.5 MOA vertical spread at 1,500 meters" </div></div>

With the goal being to fill the "gap" between 800m and 1500m with a new bolt gun is it accepted that the semiauto can fill the under 800 meter requirement? If so will the function of the DM and the Sniper become blurry under 800 meters? I'm asking as an interested old fart. When I was in the Army the M16 had triangular handguards and our pistols held seven fat rounds. But I have watched the evolution of the Snipers role, training and equipment for decades and appreciate the level of experience found on the Hide.
 
#35
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

There is a blurred understanding of sniper and marksman roles and capabilities due to 1) officers do not understand either the capabilities nor role of either and 2) don't understand that line riflemen with training and optics can hit and defeat targets to 500 yards with their organic M4s and M16s.
 
#36
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a blurred understanding of sniper and marksman roles and capabilities due to 1) officers do not understand either the capabilities nor role of either and 2) don't understand that line riflemen with training and optics can hit and defeat targets to 500 yards with their organic M4s and M16s. </div></div>

+1

I would go so far as to say blurred is being a bit nice- total misunderstanding. A DM will never replace an actual sniper. At least not effectively.

To put it simply- a DM's job is to engage in combat- they are the more accurate shooter in a fire-fight. And they pass their training on to others. That is pretty much the start and stop of their role.
 
#37
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good question sinister- I can't speak to the corp's set-up, but they Army uses DM's as well. In Army use, there are no "slots" per-say for DM's, it's more of an additional duty assigned based on whatever the chain of command decides to base it on. There are also no organization stipulations as to DM's- some units may not have any, some units may have one per squad or even one per fire-team. Thus far, weapons used by DM's have not been standardized; it's been anything from AMU build DM rifles in 5.56mm, M14's, to M110's. A commander puts in a request for additional rifles of whatever type and if the powers that be determine there is a legitimate need and the weapons are available, they get what they ask for. Or in the case of some divisions, the decision is made at a higher level that they will build their DM program and make extensive use of DM's- that division may mandate all line infantry companies have one DM per squad, and they may even provide DM specific guns to fill that mandate (such as the AMU guns built for, I believe 25th ID).

The army does not carry an ASI (additional skill identifier) for SDM trained soldiers, and given that I would doubt greatly if the Corps had a DM designator since they focus much more on unit training than school house training/certification

Rumor has it that on the army side, M110's are starting to replace M14's more and more for the DM role.

</div></div>

The M1A's/M14's that Army units have are not TOE items. So the M110 would not be replacing them unless a unit had its MTOE changed to add the M14's to it. In which case I could see the change.

My question is, where are all those wonderful EBR stocks going?
 
#38
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My question is, where are all those wonderful EBR stocks going?</div></div>

My guess would be into the corner of some armorer's vault to become otherwise known as those "railed stock thingies" that will never see the light of day except to be inventoried.

 
#39
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a blurred understanding of sniper and marksman roles and capabilities due to 1) officers do not understand either the capabilities nor role of either and 2) don't understand that line riflemen with training and optics can hit and defeat targets to 500 yards with their organic M4s and M16s. </div></div>
Seriously?
I think I have a pretty good understanding of employment and use of systems. I understand the frustration but with todays reuqirements and political assclownery there are a lot of factors effecting cdr's decisions. It is frustrating on both sides, and yes, I went to the dark side!

Now, how much more difficult is it to hit a target at 400-500 with iron sights or an M68 on an M4? How many soldiers are profficient at it, or can consistantly hit a target with said weapons system at that range? So why not utilize a DM with some better optics and a caliber which is effected less by wind or some other elements? We have better systems that give the soldiers better, greater advantages which we should use if possible.

Just my .02
 
#40
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My question is, where are all those wonderful EBR stocks going?</div></div>

My guess would be into the corner of some armorer's vault to become otherwise known as those "railed stock thingies" that will never see the light of day except to be inventoried.

</div></div>I'm guessing ebay then?
 
#41
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Rumor has it that on the army side, M110's are starting to replace M14's more and more for the DM role.

</div></div>

Yep, that's a rumor alright.
 
#42
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a blurred understanding of sniper and marksman roles and capabilities due to 1) officers do not understand either the capabilities nor role of either and 2) don't understand that line riflemen with training and optics can hit and defeat targets to 500 yards with their organic M4s and M16s. </div></div>
Seriously?
I think I have a pretty good understanding of employment and use of systems. I understand the frustration but with todays reuqirements and political assclownery there are a lot of factors effecting cdr's decisions. It is frustrating on both sides, and yes, I went to the dark side!

Now, how much more difficult is it to hit a target at 400-500 with iron sights or an M68 on an M4? How many soldiers are profficient at it, or can consistantly hit a target with said weapons system at that range? So why not utilize a DM with some better optics and a caliber which is effected less by wind or some other elements? We have better systems that give the soldiers better, greater advantages which we should use if possible.

Just my .02
</div></div>

Your reply seems like you have no knowledge of AMU's and NGMTC's SDM courses. You want men proficient at engaging targets to 600? Send them to the two week course. You made no mention of the ACOG? You make it sound like the only option of your men is to use the CCO or Iron's.

The SDM guns build and contracted by AMU were 5.56mm, usually mounted an ACOG and were effective to 600m. What more do you want? A mis-utilized sniper in every squad? As was stated, M4's and M16A4's in inventory running M855, or mk262 (preferred) will easily get you to 500m. If your men don't have the training, that's your fault for not getting them to the school.
 
#43
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Rumor has it that on the army side, M110's are starting to replace M14's more and more for the DM role.

</div></div>

Yep, that's a rumor alright. </div></div>

Well, I said rumor since I have no first hand knowledge of it. I do have first hand knowledge of the M14's pressed into service with snipers be dumped for M110s. Although some units have been fighting VERY hard to keep the M14's.
 
#44
Re: M110 SASS replaces M39 EBR and Mk11 Mod1 in USMC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Rumor has it that on the army side, M110's are starting to replace M14's more and more for the DM role.

</div></div>

Yep, that's a rumor alright.</div></div>

Good thing we have the benefit of your professional knowledge.
 
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