M118LR?

[skep_tic1]

I have copied the M118LR load of 43.5gr RL-15 behind the 175SMK and have had extremely satisfying results with my 5R. <span style="font-weight: bold">Does any one have an equivalent load using IMR-4895?</span> I'm "sitting" on about 8lbs of the stuff.

 

[Leaddog]

Re: M118LR?

M118LR is 43.0 grs. of RL-15 with the 175 SMK.

 

[skep_tic1]

Re: M118LR?

Mr. Leaddog, are you sure of your claim? I have read other wise. 43.5gr rl-15 behind a 175SMK chronos the same as M118LR from a 24" 5R Mike Rock barrel per my field test.
Respectfully

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: M118LR?

Not to piss in anyones Wheaties but I know shooters who have pulled and measured both weights 43 and 43.5. I don't know if they pulled the from the same lot. The shooter who got me into High Power several years ago goes with 43.5 for his loads.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: M118LR?

What is the OAL of the 118?

 

[leadbullet]

Re: M118LR?

the M118 LR receipe changes from year to year, no worries there, you can reload much better ammo with a little experimentation and research though

 

[blakheaven]

Re: M118LR?

projectile is actually 172 gr, IMR 4895 is actually one of the two powders used so it is spec(WC 846 is the other but i believe it might be the same as RL 15 but not sure), and to answer the question 44 gr of IMR 4895. OAL 2.83
I got my info via technical manual TM 43-0001-27(ch 11-23). If you want a word doc version of this TM just PM me your email

 

[Kevlars]

Re: M118LR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakheaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">projectile is actually 172 gr, IMR 4895 is actually one of the two powders used so it is spec(WC 846 is the other but i believe it might be the same as RL 15 but not sure), and to answer the question 44 gr of IMR 4895. OAL 2.83
I got my info via technical manual TM 43-0001-27(ch 11-23). If you want a word doc version of this TM just PM me your email</div></div>
I just pulled two of my M118LR and the bulled weighed 174.96 and 175.02-- where are you getting 172 gn? Now this I dont know but I believe that the powder is BLC and the primer is CCI #34 ... but that I dont know.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: M118LR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakheaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">projectile is actually 172 gr, IMR 4895 is actually one of the two powders used so it is spec(WC 846 is the other but i believe it might be the same as RL 15 but not sure), and to answer the question 44 gr of IMR 4895. OAL 2.83
I got my info via technical manual TM 43-0001-27(ch 11-23). If you want a word doc version of this TM just PM me your email</div></div>

that's the M118 special ball, not the M118LR

 

[Kevlars]

Re: M118LR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakheaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">projectile is actually 172 gr, IMR 4895 is actually one of the two powders used so it is spec(WC 846 is the other but i believe it might be the same as RL 15 but not sure), and to answer the question 44 gr of IMR 4895. OAL 2.83
I got my info via technical manual TM 43-0001-27(ch 11-23). If you want a word doc version of this TM just PM me your email</div></div>

that's the M118 special ball, not the M118LR</div></div>

I can send you an image of the orginal packaging if you would like.

 

[Kevlars]

Re: M118LR?

force_multiplier you are correct ... the LR is the SMK 175 not sure of the powerd as I stated I believe it is BLC

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: M118LR?

M118LR powder is RL-15

 

[blakheaven]

Re: M118LR?

I quoted where I got is and as far as the difference between special and LR i believe they are the same thing cause I just looked in the index and there is only one M118 listed in the 7.62 NATO category. Also on the special ball page it says
"Use: Rifles, 7.62mm, M14, M21, M24, and M40A1. The
cartridge is intended and specifically prepared for use in
high accuracy weapons."
P.s. I am not trying to stir up conflict but only add to the thread in an educated manner. Being in the ammo career field it done make since to have two similar cartridges (m118LR and M118 special) to only be different by 2 grains and different powder. Are you saying two different time periods were designated differently? I could see that but as far as two concurrent cartridges it is unlikely.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: M118LR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakheaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I quoted where I got is and as far as the difference between special and LR i believe they are the same thing cause I just looked in the index and there is only one M118 listed in the 7.62 NATO category. Also on the special ball page it says
"Use: Rifles, 7.62mm, M14, M21, M24, and M40A1. The
cartridge is intended and specifically prepared for use in
high accuracy weapons."</div></div>

that's old data... it's very hard to find data on the M118LR, the M118LR is the newest in the M118 line, you're mistaken, SB and LR are NOT the same...period

 

[blakheaven]

Re: M118LR?

alright force multiplier I apologize for upsetting you, I am excusing myself from the thread.

 

[Kevlars]

Re: M118LR?

Ok just pulled a cartridge ... what I can say is that the bullet weighed 175.06 gn and the powder is charcoal grey and is extruded. As I have not used RL-15 I would not know ... but it is not BLC.

It weighed 43.92 gn

Hope that helps....

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: M118LR?

it is RL 15, it's fairly well known, some searching on here would help w/ all this

 

[Kevlars]

Re: M118LR?

Ya ... when I was trying to duplicate a few years ago and did some searching ... and tryed BLC ... did not have good results .. moved to Varget and is my load of choice.

What was interesting is that I pulled 3 bullets and one had an extruded power and two had ball.... very interesting.

Regardless the bullet is SMK 175.. from my research the primer is CCI#34 do you agree?

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: M118LR?

I'm not positive on the Primer

 

[Kevlars]

Re: M118LR?

Ya tried the #34 with Varget ... not a good plan .. all over the board...

 

[FCS]

Re: M118LR?

Best guess I have on primer is Fed 210. I'd have to pull apart a M118LR round to look at primer, won't happen right now. Will do that tomorrow and follow up here with information.

Know I've ran RL-15 (43 to 43.7gr depending on burn rate of lot# using at time), GM210M, and 175 SMK in LC LR brass to get same velocity as LC loaded M118LR ammo.

OAL of LC loaded M118LR varies from 2.805" to 2.818"

 

[memo43]

Re: M118LR?

Ok I just pulled 6 different rounds apart they all weight between 174.8- 175.2 so not that bad there. This should be current date since I just got the ammo issued last week. headstamp is LC LR 10.
I compared the powder with R-15 and could not tell them apart, although I am blind (legally) in my left eye.
The weight of powder was between 43.0-43.2
oal was 2.808 the shortest to 2.812 the longest one.

I also pulled some special ball only 4 rounds. they all weighed in at 168.0 169.1 powder was at 43 for all four, oal wasw 2.815, 2.800, 2.810, 2.815.
hope this helps put, headstamp was LC 94.

 

[skep_tic1]

Re: M118LR?

Well.... I wasn't trying to start a debate on the matter. Let me rephrase my question before I have to start a new thread. 43.5gr rl-15 behind a 175SMK gave good results out of my 5r. I want to mimic this load using IMR4895 and was wondering if anyone might offer suggestions.

 

[Kevlars]

Re: M118LR?

Nope ... I use 44.0 Varget I would have to start the load development for that for my rifle.

 

[FCS]

Re: M118LR?

IMR4895 is quicker in burn rate so I'd suggest starting around 39.5 gr, working up in 0.5 gr increments until you find accuracy and velocity. Best guess is 41 to 41.5 of IMR4895 will be about same velocity as what you were seeing with 43.5gr of RL-15.

 

[Driftwood]

Re: M118LR?

I know this isn't exactly what you were looking for. I pulled it from the Hogdgon data center. I have had good results with IMR 4895 but my data and are are currently seperated but a few thousand miles and I have been using RL15 for quite a while now, and I can't remember the specific load I used. I loaded for accuracy with it though I wasn't trying to match a particular round. Looking at the Hogdgon data you are going to need to be right below maximum, so you will need to work up to it and see what result you get in your rifle, which is always a good idea anyway.


Cartridge: 308 Winchester
Load Type: Rifle
Manufacturer / Powder-IMR /IMR 4895
Bullet Weight (Gr.) 175 GR. SIE HPBT
Bullet Diam-.308"
C.O.L.-2.800"


Starting Loads
41.0 Grs. Vel. 2463 (ft/s) Pressure 42,800 PSI

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maximum Loads

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
45.0C Grs. Vel. 2704 (ft/s) Pressure 57,800 PSI

 

[skep_tic1]

Re: M118LR?

FCS, my results match yours. I've found that 41.5gr imr4895 put in the same velocity range as 43.5gr rl-15.

 

[jwoolf]

Re: M118LR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have copied the M118LR load of 43.5gr RL-15 behind the 175SMK and have had extremely satisfying results with my 5R. <span style="font-weight: bold">Does any one have an equivalent load using IMR-4895?</span> I'm "sitting" on about 8lbs of the stuff. </div></div>

M118 and M852 both had loading with IMR 4895

the recipe is 41.5gr for either loading. I actually have some of both at my house and, I even pulled a couple of bullets to make sure.... they're loaded with 41.5gr... also, after test firing M118 then my own loads with 4895 they shot the same velocity.

OOPS EDIT: Sorry I saw M118 and got carried away.. I was speaking of M118 white box match ammo.

 

[targaflorio]

Re: M118LR?

The govt switched from RL-15 to 4064.

 

[targaflorio]

Re: M118LR?

aka Mk316, effective 01/22/2009, NSN 1305-01-567-6944, DODIC AB39, CARTRIDGE, 7.62MM, SPECIAL BALL, LONG RANGE, Components:
Federal case (lake city)
Primer federal GM210M
Powder IMR 4064 (41.745 Charge weight)
Bullet Sierra MK 175 grain.
I don't know what 4895 charge will mimic. Try to match muzzle velocity and you will get close. Good luck!

 

[cookhj]

Re: M118LR?

when i shot highpower years ago, we all loaded LC cases with 41.5gr IMR4895 and a 168 SMK. that was supposed to be the same load as M852.

 

[jwoolf]

Re: M118LR?

I suspect but don't know... I'd expect the M118LR to be loaded with something slower burning than IMR4895 and that you can not reproduce the LR variety with 4895... that being said, the regular M118 will make the 1000yd line as it is with 41.5gr like the white box match stuff.

My M1A supermatch loves it loaded that way but, I take the bullets and set them out the 2.83 then it loves it even more.

I used to shoot the national match course years ago and was on the louisiana state team several years as a junior shooter and, I still have a few thousand rounds of M852 and M118 that DCM ( now CMP ) used to issue us every year for practice for next years State Jr. Team match. I still have over 4000rds of 30.06 M72 also. LOL All of that old stuff still shoots pretty well after all these years.

If you're loading IMR 4895, the proven load with that powder and LC cases is 41.5. You can load either SMK 175 to produce the M118 ( with a better bullet since M118 used a crappy bullet ) or, you can load 168 SMK to produce the M852.

Both shoot REALLY well in my M1A SM. I mostly stick with that load in my M1A in that you can't really go to slow powders with it and keep your op rod in tact.... but, with that load, I can still make the 1000yd line so, I'm happy enough with that. It still shoots lights out and, I'd put it up against anything new that is a gas gun today.

 

[PLeighton]

Re: M118LR?

As previously stated,

M118-LR:
LC LR Brass
Fed 210 primer
43.0 - 43.5 grains RL15 (Charge Weight varies by powder lot)
175 SMK

The powder charge weight varies because they load for a specific pressure, not velocity.
This can change up to .5 grains depending on the Lot of powder.
It is also worth mentioning that the charge weight will need to be adjusted if LC brass is not used.
The thicker LC brass makes a difference in chamber pressures.

FWIW, this load is widely regarded as a "go to" load in the same way that FGMM is.

 

[CardiacKid]

Re: M118LR?

Dr. Phil do you happen to have any data on the avg dimensions? It looks like 2.810 seems to be a good average for COAL, but do you have anything on mean neck length and shoulder length?

Figures - not 2 months ago I was sitting on cases of this stuff in our AHA while deployed and I could have spec'd handfuls from every lot I could find. Didn't really get into reloading until I got back and it's tough to come by for training purposes. Not in the quantities where I'd have no issues pulling rounds versus shooting every one we get anyway.

 

[PLeighton]

Re: M118LR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CardiacKid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dr. Phil do you happen to have any data on the avg dimensions? It looks like 2.810 seems to be a good average for COAL, but do you have anything on mean neck length and shoulder length?</div></div>

Here is all the info I have in my database:
Powder: Reloader 15
Type: Stick
Charge: 43.5
Bullet: 175 SMK
Overall Cartridge Length: 2.811" (Pretty Much Max Mag Length)
Case Weight: 184 grains
Case Length: 2.002"
Neck Tension: .002"

I'll put a couple in my Redding Instant Indicator when I get home to get you some fresh numbers + shoulder.