Gunsmithing M16 Extractor Length?

[Deserat]

I have a ptg m16 extractor that I just installed in a ptg one piece bolt. It's a short action mag bolt face bolt and mag bolt face extractor. The fit is super tight so it doesn't move freely at this point, but I can work that out I think. The problem is it looks like it isn't long enough - doesn't meet the nose of the bolt. With the way it fits, it doesn't appear to be enough room for it to fit over the case rim

These photos aren't great, but they show the gap between the end of the extractor and the bolt nose. Any thoughts?

 

[Turd in the Pool]

Not to worry. If the case rim fits under the hook you're gtg. If not regroup

 

[Munimula]

As RJB said.

Stick a piece of brass in there with the bolt out and see if the lip fits the brass. If so NO worries. If not make some phone calls.

In my minor opinion on if the extractor was the same length as the bolt it would rub on the rear of the barrel and it would not allow it move freely. So shorter isn't any reason to think its wrong at the moment. It seems like my M4 bolts had a shorter extrator in them. This was Rock River Arms stuff circa. 2002-2006.

 

[Deserat]

Thanks for the responses guys. I tried to fit a piece of brass and the go gauge in there but the extractor won't fit over the case rim. I also barreled up the receiver to see if it would extract a chambered piece of brass and it won't.

I did some measuring and the hole that the extractor pin goes through is 0.030 farther away from the bolt nose than the hole on two other PTG bolts that I have. That .03 difference would bring the extractor right to where it needs to be, from what I can tell. I also checked another ptg m16 extractor and a badger extractor to see if they would work, but no dice. At this point it looks like the bolt might be out of spec.

I'll give PTG a call in the a.m. I don't want to jump to any conclusions but I've put a lot of time into this project and it's going to be a big headache if this bolt is out of spec.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

What did Dave say beside send it? I just went thru a similar situation with a 338 Norma. It sat too far forward. Wouldn't kick 'em out forcefully. The replacement he sent looked like yours. If I were you, I'd just start whittling on the one you have. Bitches are harder than a whore's heart so you will need carbide or what I did was grind a cutoff wheel to the right dia. and moved the hook forward about .015" with the mill.

 

[Deserat]

The women I spoke with said send it in. I just went through an out of spec bolt from those guys a couple months ago. Never spoke with Dave once, no explanation or anything. Finally got a new bolt after waiting 6 weeks. Now more problems.

I've been building this rifle all winter and it's obviously speced to this bolt. I'm not really interested in re headspacing for a replacement bolt. Guess it's my fault for not measuring every aspect of the bolt.

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

Arrrggg, I just installed my M16 extractor in my one piece PT&G bolt today with the exact same problem! I also had to bore out the inner diameter of the extractor so it would move freely on the roll pin. I was going to chamber the barrel tomorrow in 7mm rsaum, plus tenon length and threads are already cut on the barrel. I waited two months for this thing and now probably have to send it back

Would milling/filing down the extractor to allow the case to fit be an option?

 

[Turd in the Pool]

Would milling/filing down the extractor to allow the case to fit be an option?

Read post #5. They are hard but that's the quickest route ;-)

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

Read post #5. They are hard but that's the quickest route ;-)

I just didn't know if that was a viable option, but that's exactly what I did later that day. I ended up having to take off .023" but now it snaps over the rim. Haven't test fired the rifle yet as it's not quite finished but all seems ok so far while chambering a dummy round and go gauge.

 

[BradfromND]

I'm having an issue with an m16 extractor on my new 6.5-284 build. My claw looks like it sits in too far so the rim on the case hits the flat on the front of the claw and won't let the claw jump the rim. Anyone have this issue before? If I pull the bolt out and snap it in place, I can then chamber a round but just sliding one into the chamber and trying to get it to jump the rim won't happen.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

The evidence will be on your brass. If it's in too far the mark will be on the base. I typically paint them with a marksalot to troubleshoot.

 

[BradfromND]

My brass is actually leaving a mark on the flat on the top of the claw. The flat on the claw sits about 1/16 inch in from the bolt face. I took the extractor off tonight to see if there was something wedged behind it in the back, causing it to pivot in too far but there is nothing. Here is a picture. I hope it uploads.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

Looks bad. Who's extractor is that? Looks like there is way too much hook.

You can salvage it tho. Just weld/solder a pad underneath to hold it out of the face some. Then grind the hook back enough to clear the rim.

 

[BradfromND]

It is a ptg extractor in a ptg bolt.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

Looks like it might be a 223 extractor in a STD bolt. Slot should be cut to about .145" deep. Yours looks much deeper. Also note the flat behind the hook. Way more there than on your bolt. Should be about the same.

 

[BradfromND]

Quick update....I ordered a new badger claw for standard calibers because what you said about a 223 claw made sense. After ordering it, I researched and couldn't find anyone that makes one for 223. So I decided time to modify this one and worst case I have a new one coming so I can fix whatever I screw up on this one.

I decided I was going to weld a pad on the back....until I got home and checked the fitment against the rim. It fit perfect as it and putting a pad on the back would mean that there would be a good possibility of only grabbing the rim with half the depth of the claw. I decided to change the ramp angle instead to get the rim to hit the ramp instead of the flat. After reading that these are hardened, I decided to use a Dremel and a round stone. These aren't hardened and material removes easily. I moved the tip of the ramp back where I wanted but inadvertently cut the whole thing deeper but at least the bolt will close and grab a shell......most of the time.

Next problem is there isn't enough clearance from the bolt face to the bottom of the claw. A few swipes with a file and now that is solved.

I will do a little nicer, slower, job when the new claw arrives but at least I know it will work now.

Thanks for your help guys.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

It'll be interesting to see what they send you. How deep is your extractor cut?

 

[BradfromND]

I didn't measure it but I will when the new one shows up. I ordered a Badger claw from Brownells so maybe this one won't have issues.

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

I sent mine back to PT&G last week. I'll update when and if I get it back in a timely fashion. So frustrating finishing a rifle and now it sits in the safe

 

[Turd in the Pool]

I didn't measure it but I will when the new one shows up. I ordered a Badger claw from Brownells so maybe this one won't have issues.

I was wondering about the cut in the bolt. Don't think the Badger is going to help.

 

[BradfromND]

The new extractor showed up today. I put the roll pin through both to hold them together to compare. The new one sits out .002 further away from the bolt face, which is good. I had to file the bottom of the old one to give more gap for the rim to sit under the claw. It also came with full instructions and diagrams for machining the bolt. I checked all of the required cuts and they were all spot on. I gave the face a couple swipes with a file to make the approach angle a bit flatter to make sure the rim did not contact the flat. After that, I wrapped 600 grit sandpaper around a punch and polished the file marks. Mine works perfectly now!

my claw was just slightly out of spec and needed a little fitting. Not a big problem. Here is a pic showing the finished bolt face.

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

So I called PT&G this morning for an update on my bolt. It was indeed out of spec. Seems like they are going through some growing pains at the moment as they now have twice the employees as they used to. One of the shop guys decided to talk to me and they really stepped up to the plate on this one. He explained everything and said they would have a new bolt out to me on the 13th. And as a consolation they 2nd day aired my out of spec bolt back to me for free as I can still use it this weekend for a shoot. It just doesn't eject the case after extraction. Very happy with their customer service and they have been extremely polite every time I have called. No beef here with PT&G.