M16 FCG legality
- Thread starter deersniper
- Start date
Yes. The only time you'd be in big boy trouble is if you also were in possession of a lower with a hole for the auto sear pin and lowered rear shelf.
It's not just the lower. You don't need a lower with a hole in it, to go to prison.
The trigger is different: it is channeled all the way through the back. 15 is not. This is for,
The disconnecter is different: it is longer, and engages with the safety. Slides through the channel in the trigger.
Safety: obviously different, has another set of notches in it.
BCG: different, but almost all are the same now. 15 has the bottom relieved so it will not contact a DIAS.
All of these parts together, obviously constitute a MG. Just having the trigger and BCG? Probably ok. But I wouldn't have the safety if I had the other pieces. I would never even come in contact with a sear.
But then there's those "good faith" cases from wayyyyyy back; where some citizens were allowed to keep some of the fancy parts, so long as they NEVER owned a compatible firearm. I have a couple good write ups on the topic somewhere. Ill try and dig them up
In the 90's and earlier its my understanding they were plentiful or at least available if thats what you wanted for parts from any seller that had them.
2000's they were all over and still really no way of tracking them. Well now I'm sure anything is out-of stock and tracked.
Third pin holes are definitely no-go with out registration and payment..
As for the guts I think just the sear. The rest wasn't to my beliefs. Now I'm sure the parts for burst and auto are heavly scrutinized.
No. The bcg is not illegal. Doesn't matter.
A portion of new colt style lowers don't have the lower shelf machined out. Pretty sure thats a must and has nothing to do with legality.
2000's they were all over and still really no way of tracking them. Well now I'm sure anything is out-of stock and tracked.
Third pin holes are definitely no-go with out registration and payment..
As for the guts I think just the sear. The rest wasn't to my beliefs. Now I'm sure the parts for burst and auto are heavly scrutinized.
No. The bcg is not illegal. Doesn't matter.
A portion of new colt style lowers don't have the lower shelf machined out. Pretty sure thats a must and has nothing to do with legality.
To anyone replying: the correct FCG parts alone, with make your weapon illegal. Yes, the DIAS is a no-no. But that only makes the system function properly. The trigger/disconnecter/safety selector alone will make a weapon into a not only illegal, but extremely unsafe, NFA weapon.
And for the record: m16 fcg parts are sold legally at many places to this day. Preppers Discount even sells a jig and material, if one were an SOT, to REPAIR a DIAS.
And for the record: m16 fcg parts are sold legally at many places to this day. Preppers Discount even sells a jig and material, if one were an SOT, to REPAIR a DIAS.
You gotta love the contradiction on its face:
So, obviously a plain Jane ar15 lower cannot accept full auto FCG parts and thus cannot be a machine gun without modification and parts installed per the letter.
Later it says if you have a registered full auto lower and an extra parts kit and a ar15, you have two machine guns. Wtf
Then says if you own an ar15 we don't recommend you own the parts.
Thats the stupidest shit I've ever read. If they were serious, they would say "if you own an AR15 and the parts one would be in violation of xxx law." Fucking ATF and their nebulous interpretations and nom-committal answers.
So, obviously a plain Jane ar15 lower cannot accept full auto FCG parts and thus cannot be a machine gun without modification and parts installed per the letter.
Later it says if you have a registered full auto lower and an extra parts kit and a ar15, you have two machine guns. Wtf
Then says if you own an ar15 we don't recommend you own the parts.
Thats the stupidest shit I've ever read. If they were serious, they would say "if you own an AR15 and the parts one would be in violation of xxx law." Fucking ATF and their nebulous interpretations and nom-committal answers.
@clcustom1911 i do appreciate your research. However, regardless to what any publication says, i will heed to advice once given to me. "The ATF does not care about you, and your Form 1(2,3,4,etc), until they do." I mention that, simply because, it is 100% possible to drop 16 fcg parts in to a 15. Its the shelf for the DIAS, or the colt pin hole, that are not machined. As I stated before, I personally would not own any combination of the parts.
And yes, I agree, typical alphabet nonsense. Never stating clear intent. (Like what I did there.....INTENT.....their favorite law, ummm, word)
And yes, I agree, typical alphabet nonsense. Never stating clear intent. (Like what I did there.....INTENT.....their favorite law, ummm, word)
Tried posting the screen shots from my magazine archives. Would not upload. This site has been slow as death on crutches for the last few days.
Recoil issue #43, display until 8/1/19, page 110. Titled "Going fast"
Recoil issue #43, display until 8/1/19, page 110. Titled "Going fast"
Use to be these parts were easy to find. They could be bought at any place selling replacement parts, or even ordered from shops advertising out of the shotgun news. At that time they were just parts, and I don't remember anyone raising a stink about them. Then the various gov agencies started putting out their dictates, and it became know that the mere possession of these parts, even if never installed was the possession of, or "Intent" of creating an unregistered machine gun, and almost everyone except those who don't fear federal prison got scared off from going out, and getting them. Including me. I wanted to get the whole set, but got scared off by the thought of getting caught with them. Good thing too... I'm still a free man. Haven't done anything wrong, so they can't touch me.
Well, sort of.
Well, sort of.
Aren't you in country right now? A quick look at the parts of your work weapon, during your next cleaning, will clear up a lot of what works and doesn't.
I'm not trying to be condescending, or imply in the least, that you are uneducated. (Not everyone knows about them Louboutin's
)
I'm lookin at my 14.5" M4a1 fcg right now. You definitely need the FCG pocket milled to full depth much more to the rear for the finger on the auto sear to have room to contact the selector cam.Aren't you in country right now? A quick look at the parts of your work weapon, during your next cleaning, will clear up a lot of what works and doesn't.
I'm not trying to be condescending, or imply in the least, that you are uneducated. (Not everyone knows about them Louboutin's
Yes the trigger, probably disconnector (the tail is longer), and hammer will drop into a standard ar15 pocket, but definitely not the auto sear. Oh, and there be a H1 buffer up in there too.
No pew. Pew. Pewpewpewpewpewpewwwww
Were getting Mk18 urg's next week, so I'm curious to see if there's gonna be anything switched other than upper swappy swap.
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But the safety, trigger, hammer, and disconnecter, will all drop in a 15. The safety having the cutout, will allow the disconnecter to be depressed, allowing the hammer to chase the bcg into battery. Pewpewpewpew OOB discharge
You know the agency being discussed is the same one that will line up all your BB guns and single shot shotguns for a photo op while they congratulate each other on taking your 'dangerous arsenal off the streets' right?
Because when they decide to come get you you're already guilty regardless of what they find.
That's why the "well, sort of"... They come in a a big team, with armored vehicles, in the middle of the night when you're dead asleep, and they control the media. STILL... when they get here, I ain't gonna have any "undocumented" machineguns for them to line up beside my bb guns.
Lots bad information in this thread. I'd suggest more research gentlemen. Start with with the gun laws for the state you live in. The original question was "
State by state gun laws have nothing to do with possessing unregistered MG parts. I think its all been covered pretty well here, actually
I'd also wager a guess, that the OP could draw a conclusion to his inquiry.
They absolutely have a lot to do with it. The FCG does not make a machine gun until you drill the 3rd hole. In Michigan and many others you can own the complete FCG, including the sear, they are just parts. You can not prove intent, they are just parts. There is nothing to register, the minute you drill the 3rd hole in a receiver you just made a machine gun even if you do not own the FCG to go in it. I'm guessing in Maine that is not the case, just like all the liberal states bordering NY.State by state gun laws have nothing to do with possessing unregistered MG parts. I think its all been covered pretty well here, actually
I'm just saying it's been gone over many times and actually went to the Supreme Court a while back. It's all about the illegal drilling of the 3rd hole, then you are risking your dog... I'm not willing to risk that 
so the bcg is all over America and most everyone owns one (full auto) but then if someone had the trigger and disconnector then what? you would still need the safety selector and the lower. I don't see how that could be a problem.
I covered, early on, that CERTAIN combinations of said components, may be legal for possession. Hell, the whole kit and caboodle is probably legit; IF you do not own an AR pattern weapon they could be used in.
And again, if you are in possession of a DIAS, or a lightning link, or anything like that, IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU HAVE A HOLE IN YOUR RECEIVER. For those, my friends, are machine guns in themselves. No different than one (1) singular, DRILLED, suppressor baffle.
And again, if you are in possession of a DIAS, or a lightning link, or anything like that, IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU HAVE A HOLE IN YOUR RECEIVER. For those, my friends, are machine guns in themselves. No different than one (1) singular, DRILLED, suppressor baffle.
That's not how that works. The ar15's rotating bolt only lets the firing pin protrude enough to ignite the primer when the bolt is in battery.
I'll let you research that one on your own. But I will say this;
If you don't know what an out of battery discharge is, or are remotely familiar with what causes them; you should not be researching any thread regarding MG operations or legality.
What I stated is in fact correct, and is exactly what will happen when using correct FA FCG parts, with no DIAS. The FP; when contacted with the force of the hammer, will protrude enough when the bolt is not fully into battery.
Seriously, a little paperback reading (i know, obsolete), or a simple internet search, would have given you this standard warning.
Yeah I guess, it's just that all I want to do is make an a1 and I don't like my dogs being shot. Having that cute little nub (and a semi selector, not 3 position) isn't worth worrying about it.I'm just saying it's been gone over many times and actually went to the Supreme Court a while back. It's all about the illegal drilling of the 3rd hole, then you are risking your dog... I'm not willing to risk that
m16 FCG with no sear, will it fire out of battery? > M-16 > AR15.COM
please excuse the low post count, im new post-wise to arfcom, but not
www.ar15.com
"M16/AR-15 cannot fire out of battery, because the firing pin is too short to reach until the bolt is already fully closed, and at least partially locked."
can an AR-15 fire out of battery?
Is there a definitive answer to this question? or os the jury still out?
www.thehighroad.org
"If you have a high primer, the primer could theoretically be fired by the bolt face before the lugs are engaged, but the firing-pin can't extend far enough forward to contact the primer unless the bolt-head is locked into the barrel extension (the bolt and bolt carrier compress to a shorter overall length as the bolt-head cams to lock)."
Disconnector Question [Archive] - Calguns.net
[Archive] Disconnector Question Gunsmithing & How To
www.calguns.net
"On a 5.56 AR, it's not a problem because the AR bolt will not fire out of battery... it'll just result in a "light" strike and a small dent on the primer."
Hmmm.... Weird, almost like... I was right. You telling me to just Google it instead of actually showing a reputable source that says it's possible while being condescending is hilarious.
We're gonna have to agree, to disagree on this one. So call me what you will; I'm happy with my face in the configuration it's currently in.Yeah I guess, it's just that all I want to do is make an a1 and I don't like my dogs being shot. Having that cute little nub (and a semi selector, not 3 position) isn't worth worrying about it.
m16 FCG with no sear, will it fire out of battery? > M-16 > AR15.COM
please excuse the low post count, im new post-wise to arfcom, but not
"M16/AR-15 cannot fire out of battery, because the firing pin is too short to reach until the bolt is already fully closed, and at least partially locked."
can an AR-15 fire out of battery?
Is there a definitive answer to this question? or os the jury still out?www.thehighroad.org
"If you have a high primer, the primer could theoretically be fired by the bolt face before the lugs are engaged, but the firing-pin can't extend far enough forward to contact the primer unless the bolt-head is locked into the barrel extension (the bolt and bolt carrier compress to a shorter overall length as the bolt-head cams to lock)."
Disconnector Question [Archive] - Calguns.net
[Archive] Disconnector Question Gunsmithing & How Towww.calguns.net
"On a 5.56 AR, it's not a problem because the AR bolt will not fire out of battery... it'll just result in a "light" strike and a small dent on the primer."
Hmmm.... Weird, almost like... I was right. You telling me to just Google it instead of actually showing a reputable source that says it's possible while being condescending is hilarious.
I usually enjoy reading what you post. Very informative and well written. Doesn't change my stance on firing an AR platform rifle, with the incorrect components installed.
As far as this thread goes; I'd wager that there are a fair charge of posters who have absolutely ZERO time, hands on, with any FA components, or weapons. My opinion is just that; and worth exactly what was paid for it. If anyone cares to go test these ridiculous theories; I want no part of it, and I hope you enjoyed your dogs best years.
Dude, take a look at what you’ve posted; it’s right there in my post where I quoted you. Then go take a look at your bolt-carrier group. It is physically impossible for the firing pin to "protrude enough when the bolt is not fully into battery” to cause an “out-of-battery discharge.”
The pic below shows the orientation of the locking-lugs on the barrel extension when the rifle is in the normal firing position. Note that the top locking-lug is exactly at the 12 o’clock position. You can also see that it is aligned with the index pin, which is at top-dead-center.
In the next pic, we see the orientation of the locking-lugs on the bolt when the bolt-carrier group has completely unlocked.
When the bolt has rotated completely into battery, the first locking-lug clockwise of the extractor (when looking directly at the bolt-face) will be in the 12 o’clock position. At this point it is physically impossible to have an out-of-battery discharge.
Now, let’s look at the position of the firing pin when the bolt has first rotated completely into battery. With the bolt still in the same position as in the picture above and completely in battery, you can push the firing pin as far forward as it will go (or hit it with the hammer or have the hammer follow the bolt into battery) and the firing pin will not have even started to protrude from the face of the bolt.
So, with the firing pin not even starting to protrude from the face of the bolt when the bolt has rotated completely into battery, it is physically impossible for the firing pin to come into contact with the primer before the bolt is completely in battery and therefore physically impossible for an out-of-battery discharge to occur “when the bolt is not fully into battery”.
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