m1a build recommendations

[Jeremybj]

Hey guys,

I am looking to turn a springfield standard m1a I should have shortly into a mid range precision rig(<500 yards).

My plan is to put something like a Mark 4 3.5-10 on top of it.

Anyway, I'm looking for suggestions in basically every area to squeeze a little more accuracy out of it.

For a scope mount, I am looking at a Sadlak aluminum mount, can anyone tell me if this thing is durable and will hold a zero perfectly? This will basically be a range gun/deer hunthing gun, so it should have a pretty easy life. I am trying to keep costs down by going with aluminum over the steel, but if it costs me $80 in headaches, not worth trying to save the money.

I am also looking at barrels, I have decided on 18.5". My question is about barrel weight. I am looking at the Criterion that LRB sells for $200. Is it a solid choice or is it worth going to the medium weight or heavy weight barrels for $100-$200 more?

Can you guys advise if it is worth it buying the national match spring rod and piston and gas cylinder and all that stuff or is the factory Springfield good as anything else?

Last thing for right now is a brake, someone give me a recommendation on what to go for!

I am looking for a sub MOA gun without breaking the bank. I have been a bolt gun shooter for years and this is my first venture into the semi auto world, so maybe I am asking too much for a "budget" precision m1a.

Any help you guys can give me would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeremy

 

[ArmyJerry]

I have been contemplating the same thing, decided I will send my M1a out to FA to have them put the barrel on and head space it while they are at it, will do the heavy Criterion Barrel 22", may have them do the trigger too but the stock one if pretty good for me now. I have the Basset mount, after having the gen 3 on there for years, Springfield does not do scope mounts, cost me a lot of $ in ammo trying to get that mount right, the Basset works great . I have the Smith rod sitting on the bench waiting on the coated match gas piston and spring (over a month now). I just put the Good Iron Brake on, man o man, what a difference, get it. Why have you settled on a M1A, I ask because there are so many other, options out there, I have a DPM LR 308 and a M4 and like them a lot but after some long thoughts on the subject I have realized the M14, M1 Garand and M1a shooters are emotional about their rifles like no others that I have seen.

Here is the barrel I will be getting
http://www.fulton-armory.com/barrel-22-m14-heavy-contour-1x12-chrome-moly-noa-usgi-new.aspx

Sope - I put on it was a Bushy Elite 10x, works great for this gun

Been thinking about the stock, have the tupperware one that came with the gun but contemplating switching to a Walnut stock.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/stocknewwalnutnometalnoselectorcutnmheavyweight.aspx

 

[Jeremybj]

Jerry,

Can you tell me which good iron brake you put on? I'm thinking it is item #2001, but that is only a guess.

The other mount I have in mind is the Basset, but I'm a little weirded out by the 1 bolt holding it on, seems kinda questionable. How long/how many rounds have you put through your rifle with the Basset mount on?

I also plan on having the Smith trigger job done to it also and some kind of aftermarket stock.

My sniper partner gave me m1a fever when he let me shoot his new scout, I've been hooked ever since.

 

[LRRPF52]

M1A...precision...squeeze a little more accuracy....hold zero perfectly.....keeping costs down....sub MOA without breaking the bank.....

Please don't take offense to this, but my honest response is....

 

[ArmyJerry]

No offense taken, seems that you don't have one or don't know how to shoot the one you have. Jeremy this is the MB http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...e-brake-prod12788.aspx?avs|Make_3=Springfield

I just installed the Bassett a month and a half ago, put 500 rounds through it two weeks ago, zeroed no prob, checked the TQ on the one bolt with the lever wrench that comes with it, no movement at all, rock solid, no loktite as recommended by the old man Bassett. I heard the Smith is pretty good but have not shot with it.

An old WW2 vet let me shoot his Garand on a range in NJ one winter 30 years ago, saved lunch money for many years after that to get the M1A as I was pretty broke with loads of kids back then.

Get this wrench with the muzzle brake, it works well, I also have an original USGI issue castle nut wrench that is the best one they ever made, hardened steel but thee one in the linkl will get the job done no problem.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t.../castle-nut-pliers-for-m14-m1a-prod20462.aspx

 

[K-tech]

As far as the scope I would highly recommend Sadlak Ind. I do not have the aluminum mount but I do have the skeletonized steel version and I absolutely love it. Well worth the money over a springfield armory mount

 

[NGreen]

I also used the Smith brake and it works great. It's also nice because they're threaded 5/8-24 so if you ever decide to use a suppressor, there are a good amount of them with 5/8-24 threads. I went with the Troy Ind battle rail and it's a real solid mount if you can spend the cash. Also, Sadlak's bipod mount is a nice investment as well if you're going walnut stock. I have it on mine and it's also very solid. http://sadlak.com/si_hd_front_rail.html

 

[LRRPF52]

"No offense taken, seems that you don't have one or don't know how to shoot the one you have."

I spent a good portion of my life living with M14's and M21's, and still run across them time-to-time with friends who have them. Even our National Match M21's were problem children to keep zeroed in 2 of the 3 the Scout Platoons I was in that had them, and the guys in Group had the same issues. SF worked really hard with the M25 program to keep the M21 platform alive, but it just couldn't compete for accuracy against the M24, and the school houses that used M21's had nightmarish issues with keeping those guns barely viable for sniper training.

When the M24 was adopted in the late 1980's, the M21 started being used for stalk sites as a beater, where only blanks were used, to keep the M24's from being beat up. I was an M21 nazi as well, leaning to the reality that you don't get to pick and choose when you're going to fill the role as a sniper, but you will always be an infantry rifleman. Sending us out in 2-man teams, one with a target-barreled bolt gun, the other with an M16A2/M203, or M4/M203 just didn't make a lot of sense to me, so I held on as a proponent of the M21, but became more enthusiastic about the SR25, which SF purchased in the early 1990's.

Believe me, I share the same space in my "nostalgia shelf" for the M14, but I would say that shelf is so dusty, it never gets cleaned or disturbed.

There have been some great threads on here with input from some of the few remaining wizards that know how to do quality M1A work, the most impressive being an LRB double-lugged receiver build chambered in .260 Remington.

You are not going to touch a consistently accurate M1A for less than $2500, and you're really looking at more than that usually. I've seen too many M14 aficionados go down that rabbit hole, and it's a process that rarely ends (chasing the accuracy with those guns). Reliability is also a weakness with that Garand receiver design once you get into sandy environments, as it is totally open and exposed to the elements, with a path right down into the magazine.

The best method for securing a scope mount to the variable receiver datum M14/M1A is welding, like the Marine EOD guys had, or shaving off the rear sight ears and drilling and tapping like a bolt gun-seen that done for a guy before. By design, the M14 is just not a consistently accurate, reliable, optic-friendly weapon. It seems purpose-built to defy anyone from making it so, but that acts as a challenge to some of the few persistent smiths who just wouldn't leave it alone and have pulled off amazing feats with their talent and insight into the system.

For those about to embark on this, be warned that it will cost you. This is why I have AR10's, as they're just too easy to drop a great barrel and trigger in, and go shoot.

 

[madppcs]

I have an M21 with a Kreiger barrel, and its a great shooter. But its an 80yr old design. No matter what model M1a,M14,M21,M25 you have its first and foremost a BATTLE RIFLE. It will not be (Out the Box) as accurate as most modern AR 308s. But then again, if I were to grab 1 gas rifle in 308, it would be my M21. Not an AR10. (Personal Preference). If I ever ran out of ammo I could use it as a baseball bat and beat the living hell out of anything in my path and it will still hold zero (Irons) when I came across more ammo. I think the looser tolerances are there so that it will perform GREAT in ANY environment. And it has since the Garand days. That design has put more humans/animals in the dirt than I can possibly imagine. Theres a reason that rifle is still in active service, and still around in civilians gun safes, and under the seats of pickup trucks. Because it is GOOD at EVERYTHING. It isn't the best, but itll never let you down.

 

[81STFACP]

You are not going to touch a consistently accurate M1A for less than $2500, and you're really looking at more than that usually. I've seen too many M14 aficionados go down that rabbit hole, and it's a process that rarely ends (chasing the accuracy with those guns).

Some words of wisdom here.

Yes, you can make the 14 shoot right along with the black guns, but at a price - having it built by competent smiths who were mostly former or current military ones who supported the big teams, AND the trigger time to master the big stick. Last year I campaigned 2 rifles in the across the course matches and shot one long range match. I distinguished back in 96, but looking at my scores last year and the previous year in the LEG matches I shot, yes, I could still distinguish all over again with the 14 against black guns. My number 1 gun won a State match shooting against bolt guns and space guns, but that was not easy, lots of luck, and the M14 Gods were looking after this one. The number 2 gun won a LEG match, and the same number 2 gun broke a local 1000 yards service rifle range record that was established prior by a black gun. These are very small feat all things considered in the high power world, but it was fun shooting the old sticks.

Bottom line, the system can be made to shoot. Open your check book, budget precision and M14 are typically mutually exclusive, though there are claims out there that their standard models with just shimming the gas system, installing a "NM" spring guide, installing a scope, and bingo they have a sub minute rifle. Maybe. Maybe once it did. My rifles were built by some of the best in the country, just like they built them for the military teams, and I have shot numerous sub minute groups with the rifles, BUT I will be the last person to call them sub MOA guns. Even from a mechanical rest at 300 yards, these rifles shooting a MOA are cherished.

To the OP, if you wish to shoot sub MOA, stick with the bolt guns, if your 14 shoots 1-2 MOA, give it a kiss, load enough to wear out the barrel, then upgrade to a Krieger, McM stock, and find a competent armorer to re-barrel and bed the rifle.

 

[BCP]

I am looking for a sub MOA gun without breaking the bank

While the internet is full of rack grade M1As that shoot sub moa it's not exactly reality.

I have a loaded with a sadlak aluminum mount and a blackhawk 20$ cheekpad, with low rings it is approaching a cheekweld with my scope. I had to trim the ejector spring to get it to funciton with scope mount but now it runs 100%. Not a sub moa rifle though 1.5moa more like it. Scope I have is a super sniper 6x it has a nice wide field of view and is easy to get behind.

If I were to do the scope mount over again I think I'd try a basset regular height with picatinny rail.

Don't see why you couldn't do the same with your rifle and get similar results.

edit: also forgot to add that it needs bedding as the groups walk with heat and it needs an adj gas plug as hot loads overwhelm it. So more time + money to throw at it. and if/when you put a scope on it check all the screws for proper torque every couple range trips. lovable rifle but finicky as hell.

 

[desertshooter]

I had a M1A custom built for me by Phil Arrington. The test target was about a 1/4" group at 100 yards (3 shot). He installed a Leatherwood scope base which was rock solid. If you need a custom fit barrel is installed Kreiger SS barrels... I highly recommend him for anything custom. http://www.arringtonaccuracy.com/

 

[kmcintosh78]

M1A...precision...squeeze a little more accuracy....hold zero perfectly.....keeping costs down....sub MOA without breaking the bank.....

Please don't take offense to this, but my honest response is....

My Standard with the TG worked over and the GC unitized will do 1MOA if not slightly under all day.
Extra cost was around $120 for the work.

It can be done.

 

[81STFACP]

My Standard with the TG worked over and the GC unitized will do 1MOA if not slightly under all day.
Extra cost was around $120 for the work.

It can be done.

ALL DAY, the ubiquitous internet language. I would love to see a standard rifle, unbedded, with TG worked over, and unitized GC shoot a 2 inch 20 shot group at 200 yards, never see it happen, not buying it. Record a video and prove it.

 

[Orlando]

My M1a is all USGI parts with SAI receiver, bone stock no mods
Sadlak aluminum mount
100yds
off bench
10 rds
surplus ammo
10 rds 1 5/8 inch group
No doubt she would group half that with handloads

 

[Jeremybj]

Well, so maybe sub Moa is not gonna happen. I appreciate the posts so far, I have made a couple decisions based on what has been said, and I lowered my expectations a little.

Do u guys think the sadlak aluminum mount is good enough? Or would u spend the extra $100 on the steel mount? I see a couple of u guys use the aluminum mount....

 

[81STFACP]

My M1a is all USGI parts with SAI receiver, bone stock no mods
Sadlak aluminum mount
100yds
off bench
10 rds
surplus ammo
10 rds 1 5/8 inch group
No doubt she would group half that with handloads

Lots of people keep on trying to make these battle rifles something they are not and that is sub minute guns. Just because it happened once or twice it does not justify to be called as such. Are you suggesting that you can make a standard rifle a sub minute gun unmodified? There are some loyal 14 followers on other forums who make such claims, but have yet to see a real half minute 14, meaning it will do half minute to 3/4 MOA every time you take it out for a spin like a bolt gun.

Just for laughs and giggles shoot the dot drill and see how the sub minute 14 does. Post the results.

 

[BCP]

Well, so maybe sub Moa is not gonna happen. I appreciate the posts so far, I have made a couple decisions based on what has been said, and I lowered my expectations a little.

Do u guys think the sadlak aluminum mount is good enough? Or would u spend the extra $100 on the steel mount? I see a couple of u guys use the aluminum mount....

I have the alum sadlak but if I were to do it over again I'd get a basset steel mount, 150$ and they attach to the receiver in a much more idiot proof sort of way.

edit: when you first get a scope on it...you will find out really quickly what you have to work with. Some are in-spec and the receivers square so point of impact will be really close, some point of impact @ 100 will be 3-4ft too high, low, left, right...if that happens then you will have to consider either a mount with windage elevation adjustment or just leaving it irons...

Also your standard barrel is probably fine for what you are talking about with the exception of 'target shooting' at longer ranges. If you want to do that I highly recommend you think about a bolt action in a target caliber, everyone seems to lemming towards 308 for a first rifle but 243, 223, 6.5mm, they all have some advantages over it depending on how you look at it.

 

[Fred @ Bison Tactical]

I would go with the steel, or Airbourne sadlak mounts instead of the aluminum. Or do what I did and go with a Sage stock. Better optic mount in my opinion, and no bedding difficulties. I suggest looking at one of the books around about National Match components to help improve accuracy - like NM op-rod spring guide, and NM piston. If your going to shoot iron sights, I suggest going with NM iron sights also, just seems to be easier for me with the smaller front sight post.

I second the idea that if you want bolt gun accuracy your going to spend a lot, and you should start hand loading. IF you want to hit man sized targets out to 500/600 yards, you can get that fairly easily - which in my opinion is what a battle rifle is meant to do.

 

[Orlando]

Lots of people keep on trying to make these battle rifles something they are not and that is sub minute guns. Just because it happened once or twice it does not justify to be called as such. Are you suggesting that you can make a standard rifle a sub minute gun unmodified? There are some loyal 14 followers on other forums who make such claims, but have yet to see a real half minute 14, meaning it will do half minute to 3/4 MOA every time you take it out for a spin like a bolt gun.

Just for laughs and giggles shoot the dot drill and see how the sub minute 14 does. Post the results.

I make no claims of anything other than my rifle is bone stock and does very well with Surplus ammo.
I would think groups would shrink in half with good ammo.
Notice I posted a 10 rd group not a 3 or 5 rd group
Match rifle? No, good enough accuracy for me for a standard battle rifle

 

[81STFACP]

Notice I posted a 10 rd group not a 3 or 5 rd group
Match rifle? No, good enough accuracy for me for a standard battle rifle

Thank you.

10 shot group is the way to go. Excellent indeed for a battle rifle and plus you still have to drive the stick. You did well, good shooting.

 

[LRRPF52]

There is one word that stuck out boldly in this thread that I think encompasses what it takes to stay committed to the M14:

Love

Even after all the years I spent with them, I can only muster fondness. That said, given the choice between any of my M24's that shot .3-.75 MOA and an M21 for going outside the wire, the decision is an easy one in the self-loader's favor, but there are more choices.

 

[ArmyJerry]

LRRP, exactly , its like still loving the way the wife looks after 5 kids. But each weapon has its place in the shooting universe.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7VcsfM3ciM

 

[madppcs]

An M1a/M14/M21 (Or whatever variant you happen to have) is like having a larger crescent wrench in the toolbox. Sometimes its just the right tool for the job.

 

[kmcintosh78]

I will no problem.
Next time I am out.

If you venture to UT, let me know. Would love to take you out, and also show you my buddies Scout shooting 1.25MOA with MilSurp ammo, converted from Berdan Primer to Boxer and using a halfassed reload recipe.

 

[stu2]

Hey guys,

I am looking to turn a springfield standard m1a I should have shortly into a mid range precision rig(<500 yards).

My plan is to put something like a Mark 4 3.5-10 on top of it.

Anyway, I'm looking for suggestions in basically every area to squeeze a little more accuracy out of it.

For a scope mount, I am looking at a Sadlak aluminum mount, can anyone tell me if this thing is durable and will hold a zero perfectly? This will basically be a range gun/deer hunthing gun, so it should have a pretty easy life. I am trying to keep costs down by going with aluminum over the steel, but if it costs me $80 in headaches, not worth trying to save the money.

I am also looking at barrels, I have decided on 18.5". My question is about barrel weight. I am looking at the Criterion that LRB sells for $200. Is it a solid choice or is it worth going to the medium weight or heavy weight barrels for $100-$200 more?

Can you guys advise if it is worth it buying the national match spring rod and piston and gas cylinder and all that stuff or is the factory Springfield good as anything else?

Last thing for right now is a brake, someone give me a recommendation on what to go for!

I am looking for a sub MOA gun without breaking the bank. I have been a bolt gun shooter for years and this is my first venture into the semi auto world, so maybe I am asking too much for a "budget" precision m1a.

Any help you guys can give me would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeremy

Jeremy- Get a National Match or at least a loaded. You'll be hapier in the long run. If your going to put such a fine optic on it you'll regret the standard. I started with a standard on one of my guns and ended up turning it into an EBR. Then I bought a Super Match. The super match is expensive but if you are into presicion like I am its worth it. My Super Match is 3/4MOA often and easily 1MOA. Now that I have the EBR stok on the standard it easily shoots 1 MOA but I had to spend a lot to get it there. My friend has a National Match that is accurate with just Nato surplus. My best advice is start with the better you may spend less money in the long run.

As far as scope mounts go. I have the Sadlack steel mount on my Super Match and it is rock solid. I don't like aluminum mounts, personally. Either way you go, Sadlack is a great mount.

Gas piston- Also get the Sadlack gas cylinder piston with the Titanium Nitride (TiN) finish. Don't get the groved National Match one unless you are only shooting heavier bullets. The extra grove allows for more gas to bypass causing Nato ammo not to cycle properly.

Sith Enterprises vortex makes a great product if you want a different brake/flash hider http://www.midwayusa.com/product/822474/smith-enterprise-vortex-flash-hider-m14-matte?cm_vc=wishList

 

[kmcintosh78]

ALL DAY, the ubiquitous internet language. I would love to see a standard rifle, unbedded, with TG worked over, and unitized GC shoot a 2 inch 20 shot group at 200 yards, never see it happen, not buying it. Record a video and prove it.

So, here is an article I wrote, before I had the TG and GC unitized.
http://www.m1arifles.com/reviews/review-of-3087-62-ammo-for-the-m1a-rifle/
I will work work on digging up some of my old targets and break out my range book. Probably take a day or two.

Where did I state anything other then I can get my M1a to do 1moa at 100 yards?
If I am doing my part, and I am running hand-loads with the 168gr Seirras, I get consistent 1moa groups, 8-10 shot groups.

 

[smcfarland]

I love mine. It feeds everything I put into it. However, if you want accuracy, then sell it and buy an AR10 platform rifle.

 

[redhooker]

I have only shot the M1A with irons, never an optic, and I am sure the opinions above are correct about accuracy, BUT...

I love shooting that Springfield! The 16 inch model is a thunder-clapping, milsurp eating, hog killing handy-assed muther fugger! Something about that rifle clicks with me and I enjoy the hell out of shooting it. The iron sights are no problem minute-of-shoulder out to 250-300 (which is as far as I have tried with my eyes). And whoodont like the good ol 308? I have some nicer SR-25 pattern guns but that non-pistol gripped Springer is one tight little package.

OK- everybody can carry on dissing it-I just had to take up for the old M14 one time to me she's just great fun

 

[konabully]

I had a M1A custom built for me by Phil Arrington. The test target was about a 1/4" group at 100 yards (3 shot). He installed a Leatherwood scope base which was rock solid. If you need a custom fit barrel is installed Kreiger SS barrels... I highly recommend him for anything custom. http://www.arringtonaccuracy.com/

View attachment 588

+1 about Phil Arrington. He does really good work.

 

[Dark Horse]

I had a M1A custom built for me by Phil Arrington. The test target was about a 1/4" group at 100 yards (3 shot). He installed a Leatherwood scope base which was rock solid. If you need a custom fit barrel is installed Kreiger SS barrels... I highly recommend him for anything custom. http://www.arringtonaccuracy.com/

View attachment 588

And have you duplicated the 1/4 moa shooting since you've had the rifle? You would be hard pressed to find someone who has more faith in the M14 series as a battle rifle than myself but a single 1/4 moa 3 shot group means next to nothing. I stopped wasting time with 3 shot groups years ago because the only person I was impressing was myself. Have a frustrating day at the range and then end it with tight 3 shot group and all is better, then to come out the next day and shoot a 2 moa group. Shoot 5 5 shot groups and bring some blood pressure pills with you to the range.

The M14 is a shit ton of money to get it to shoot accurately and is almost never consistent. I have become more than a little frustrated over the years with various barrels and stock setups and eventually settled on an LRB M25 with a heavy Krieger and bedded into a Mcmillan clone stock. On several occassions I have shot 5 5shots groups and the average is always 1.01-1.05 moa with the groups being anywhere from .44-1.55 moa. That's the inconsistent part of it...I'll take the average because a solid moa M14 is hard to come by but individual group size incenses me. This is with a rock solid scope mount, Schmidt&Bender scope and 168 gr Hornady TAP.

So, you really have to love the platform because accuracy can be much cheaper to find, but with a lot of patience and desire they can be respectable. Just don't expect to be in the same league as a bolt-gun and competing with the AR-10 platform is a long shot as well, but given the reliability that I have experienced and the fact that it was the first "real" rifle I ever shot, I will take it over any other semi-auto platform out there.

 

[jsnspck]

Deer Killing M1A

I had the same thought process as you a few years back. I wanted a semiauto rifle that would serve as my deer rifle also. I bought a Springfield Loaded M1A in 2008. I don't take it to the range and shoot hundreds of rounds per session, it has had an easy life like what you intend for your rifle. The only additions I put on the rifle are Smith Enterprise weaver scope mount, Leupold scope rings, Nikon Monarch 4-16x42 scope, Turner Saddlery synthetic sling, a recoil reducer on the spring, cheek riser. The best groups that I can manage are right over 1 MOA with Federal GMM 168 gr SMK's. I do not handload so there is always the potential for more accuracy. Over the few years that I have owned the rifle, I have always contemplated on different barrels different stocks and better glass. After going over and over these options again and again, I would just get a good bolt action for hunting and an AR10 for the semiauto role. The cost of getting an M1A to be accurate is pricey no matter if you buy a Standard and do upgrades or just bite the bullet from the get-go and buy a Fulton Armory, Smith Enterprise or Springfield Super Match. And from what I have discovered after the past 4 hunting seasons with it is you will get tired of lugging all of that weight around. I have also never had to use the semiauto feature of the rifle while deer hunting. I doubt anyone ever does. If you are hog hunting this may be a different story, but I have never pulled the trigger twice. So this is why I would avoid it, sounds good, but in reality I have become tired of climbing trees with a 22" Springfield Loaded. Where I hunt in Louisiana, a 20" bolt gun will reach as far as I can see. If the opportunity for a longer shot ever presented itself, then you start to question the accuracy issues versus good shot placement for clean kills. The bottom line is that you can accomplish your goal of hunting with a M1A, but it will be expensive and heavy. Just a personal choice.

 

[stu2]

jsnspck

"I have also never had to use the semiauto feature of the rifle while deer hunting. I doubt anyone ever does. If you are hog hunting this may be a different story, but I have never pulled the trigger twice."

Don't mention that to Joe Biden.

The M1A is a battle rifle not a dear hunting rifle. You can always use it for that but, I'd pick a nice light bolt action for that. My M1As are heavy and although I could carry them, a lighter gun would be more of a pleasure to pack around.

 

[jarhead_h]

I'm gonna go against the trend here - in an auto I want one thing above all else, and that one thing is that when I pull the trigger gun go bang and cycle another round. I have low expectations for autos, I just want them to work. I have used five different M16's in desert sand, and they didn't work, and in fact they've permanently soured me on the Stoner platform entirely. In the mean time I still hear my dad telling me about the XM21 he carried in the very early 70's and how no matter how much red mud he got in it the thing it always worked. He's still alive because he couldn't jam it. That's why I bought a loaded M1A from a buddy when he needed the cash( I could sell it for twice what I payed for it).

It's not getting any work done to it that I can't do myself. The walnut stock has fiddleback down the entire length, so keeping that and it's getting refinished in Minwax antique oil when I bed it, and luckily the barrel is cromoly and came parkerized. Spring guide will get changed with a Saddlak. I'm thinking about an adjustable gas plug so that I don't have to change pistons depending on what I shoot. And one day I'm going to change the Cali muzzle brake with a PWS .30 cal brake(Smith mount), although still toying with putting on a flash hider w/ bayo lug because I'm a bullet sponge and this is a battle rifle, so it better damn well fix a bayonet(maybe have a pws knockoff machined with one....). GI extractor and op rod if I can find them. $200 bushnell 3200 EliteTac mil/mil mounted on a basset for cowitnessing the irons. Checkmate mags.

I don't expect to get better than inch and half groups at 100 yards, and that's just fine as long as it works. If I want to drill the center of a dime I'll grab a bolt.

EDIT:

There's also a crazy option, sell the standard and go to LOSOK arms run by Mark Lammers. He has a complete redesign of the m1 action that he claims is every bit a accurate as any Stoner, heavier of course. It's called the Valkyr and you can get it in 30-06 or .300 win mag. Mark says his favorite load is a 208AMAX @2700FPS with the 30-06. Uses BAR mags. Have no first hand experience at all, but I'm very curious.

The action has been redesigned similarly to what Surgeon did to the rem700. It's machined from a block of 4340. The irons are gone alltogether, and replaced with an integral +20 rail eliminating the flex inheirent in an open top design. Plus the mag-well is integral and supposedly this counters the torqueing that the op rod causes. The result is that you can hang a medium or heavy barrel off of it without any bedding at all, like with a heavy bolt action. With that AMAX load this means that in theory you would have a DMR that you could use for extended long range.

 

[LRRPF52]

Interesting info on the LOSOK Arms. I wonder if his "Direct-Impingement Gas Piston" looks like the design I shared with SAGE back at 2008 SHOT. In order to free-float the M14 gas system, I came up with an idea where you have a short section of gas tube extending to the rear from a fixed gas block attached to the barrel. A piston at the front of the op-rod would slide over the gas tube, and have gas relief slots in it once enough inertia has been delivered to the op-rod.

The point is to get rid of the floating tappet of the M14 gas system, which is one of the accuracy-negating design "features" of the M14. The next design "feature" is the op-rod guide and the torque that is exerted on the barrel by a high-mass moving part, combined with a weak method for mounting into the stock. These are the main reasons why M14's shoot so poorly for consistency over an extended period of time.

By going with a 4340 Nickel Steel billet brickhouse chassis for the LOSOK system, he has knocked out the weak foundation of the M14/Garand design. I'm interested to see what gas system he went with. I have no claims on my design, and could care less about ownership, as I have plenty of other irons in the fire.

 

[ArmyJerry]

One other feature the tac driver snobs (no offense anyone) leave out, you can mount a nice bayonet to the dammed thing and go face to face with it. It will shatter the opponents AR/AK like it was made out of legos, not to mention what it would do to your opponent. This is of course when the SHTF and your 0.25 to 1.5 inch groups are not good enough to take out the threat. Get the rifle, get the best one you can afford, look at Fulton Armory and some others, its a great shooting iron, you will love it, you will love shooting it, love caressing it, cleaning it, and just plain ole looking at it, you will dream about it. Kind of reminds me of some discussions between Harley Riders and Jap Bike riders, both have a purpose but when the time to choose one for the long haul I know which one I will ride (Harley of course) and I have both. Just do it man.

 

[BCP]

One other feature the tac driver snobs (no offense anyone) leave out, you can mount a nice bayonet to the dammed thing and go face to face with it. It will shatter the opponents AR/AK like it was made out of legos, not to mention what it would do to your opponent. This is of course when the SHTF and your 0.25 to 1.5 inch groups are not good enough to take out the threat..

I wanna see video of your bayonet charge that results in smashing up an AR like it's made of legos.

 

[BCP]

Also I think Losok has a couple prototypes but is having a lot of trouble finding a reliable source for the machinework. I know he was partnered with 762firearms for awhile but last I heard they broke up.

I would put that rifle up there with some of the other ones that have been long-action in the AR platform and the guy who claimed to be making a USA SVD. Until there are lots of them in stock, ready to ship I don't think I'd put any money towards one.

 

[rojoko]

Anyway, I'm looking for suggestions in basically every area to squeeze a little more accuracy out of it.


I am also looking at barrels, I have decided on 18.5". My question is about barrel weight. I am looking at the Criterion that LRB sells for $200. Is it a solid choice or is it worth going to the medium weight or heavy weight barrels for $100-$200 more?

If you want to maintain accuracy, stay with the 22" barrels. I use Kreiger's, but I'm willing to pay for them.


Can you guys advise if it is worth it buying the national match spring rod and piston and gas cylinder and all that stuff or is the factory Springfield good as anything else?


getting the Sadlak op rod spring guide helps. It's much like the original NM one and helps. For building NM M1As, I'v enever bought any "trick parts" and they work just fine. I simple do it like the USMTU or USMC, I polish the exterior of the piston and the inside of the cylinder. Works fine and always has.

Last thing for right now is a brake, someone give me a recommendation on what to go for!

Why a muzzle brake?


I am looking for a sub MOA gun without breaking the bank. I have been a bolt gun shooter for years and this is my first venture into the semi auto world, so maybe I am asking too much for a "budget" precision m1a.

GOing to need to stay 22" barrel, preferably a USGI SAK NM barrel if you can find one, going to need to bed the rifle. I do not unitize the gas assembly. Not worth it. But I do some of the NM mods around that one.

 

[rojoko]

One other feature the tac driver snobs (no offense anyone) leave out, you can mount a nice bayonet to the dammed thing and go face to face with it. It will shatter the opponents AR/AK like it was made out of legos, not to mention what it would do to your opponent.


Kind of nice is someone had the skill set, ammo and rifle to reach out and touch someone at range. Someone gets that close, that's what a .45 is for.

 

[jarhead_h]

One other feature the tac driver snobs (no offense anyone) leave out, you can mount a nice bayonet to the dammed thing and go face to face with it. It will shatter the opponents AR/AK like it was made out of legos, not to mention what it would do to your opponent.


Kind of nice is someone had the skill set, ammo and rifle to reach out and touch someone at range. Someone gets that close, that's what a .45 is for.

Most recent bayonet charge in whole world was a)a bunch of jihadists, b)Russians counter-invading Georgia, c)2003, Operation Iraqi Freedom, Marine rifle company low on ammo; I forget the city. If you answered "C" you win a free internet. We train with them because we still use them, and no one knows exactly how to respond because who the fuck still does that?

And to the best of my knowledge no AR's or AK's shattered like legos.

 

[rojoko]

Most recent bayonet charge in whole world was a)a bunch of jihadists, b)Russians counter-invading Georgia, c)2003, Operation Iraqi Freedom, Marine rifle company low on ammo; I forget the city. If you answered "C" you win a free internet. We train with them because we still use them, and no one knows exactly how to respond because who the fuck still does that?

And to the best of my knowledge no AR's or AK's shattered like legos.

1) Still prefer to have the ability to reach out. Nice option for stand off.
2) I've worked with a lot of Soviet and ChiComm weapons. I'm well aware of how tough they can be, but in testing done by the DoD over the years, the M14 still held up better on several occasions in reliability.
3) Never discussed anything to do with bayonets. I was trained to shoot distance by one of Jim Land's guys (as in the USMC Sniper school). I would never claim to be in the Corp, but I have worked with them off and on over the years.
4) yes I've seen bent and screwed up AKs and never ask me about AR/M16 failures, I don't care for the weapon (my choice).
5) If Jeff Cooper was still around, he could be instrumental in teaching the USMC CQC. it works nicely and I do have personal experience with it.

 

[LRRPF52]

2) I've worked with a lot of Soviet and ChiComm weapons. I'm well aware of how tough they can be, but in testing done by the DoD over the years, the M14 still held up better on several occasions in reliability.

Do you have a link to that study? I'd be interested to read it, because the M14 for me has been less reliable than the M16/M4, and I spent 10 years on active duty with all of them in Infantry Scout Sniper Platoons, Long-Range Surveillance...only units that actually shoot and live with weapons in the field. I grew up propagandized to believe a mythical status for the M14, and was disappointed in the end. Would I still use one if it was either that or a G3? Probably. It does not do well in sandy/dusty environments, even on certain ranges in my experience.

If I you had told me that as a kid, I would have looked at you like a blasphemer in the temple of rifledom, but I lost my faith when I actually had to hit the field/deploy with the M14, and the business sticks we had were all National Match M14's/M21's, some even straight out of the new bags in Korea-hadn't been issued before.

The rifle's receiver design is way too open to debris, in my opinion. I still like the sight above bore on the M14 more than any other battle rifle, but that is just one consideration several rungs lower on my ladder of priorities, with reliability at the top.

 

[cl60cruzer]

Interesting info on the LOSOK Arms. I wonder if his "Direct-Impingement Gas Piston" looks like the design I shared with SAGE back at 2008 SHOT. In order to free-float the M14 gas system, I came up with an idea where you have a short section of gas tube extending to the rear from a fixed gas block attached to the barrel. A piston at the front of the op-rod would slide over the gas tube, and have gas relief slots in it once enough inertia has been delivered to the op-rod.

The point is to get rid of the floating tappet of the M14 gas system, which is one of the accuracy-negating design "features" of the M14. The next design "feature" is the op-rod guide and the torque that is exerted on the barrel by a high-mass moving part, combined with a weak method for mounting into the stock. These are the main reasons why M14's shoot so poorly for consistency over an extended period of time.

By going with a 4340 Nickel Steel billet brickhouse chassis for the LOSOK system, he has knocked out the weak foundation of the M14/Garand design. I'm interested to see what gas system he went with. I have no claims on my design, and could care less about ownership, as I have plenty of other irons in the fire.

isnt the bullet long gone before the gas system is cycling?

 

[cal50]

http://m14forum.com/m14/128315-bedding-rear-lug-gun-coat-hanger-way-pic-heavy.html


If you want accuracy start with good parts, a stock and proper bedding. The M1A /M14 can be a challenge to build for accuracy and work to master firing it (from a service rifle view). I put it on par with the 1911 pistol that you can build it for your purposes.

 

[LRRPF52]

http://m14forum.com/m14/128315-bedding-rear-lug-gun-coat-hanger-way-pic-heavy.html


If you want accuracy start with good parts, a stock and proper bedding. The M1A /M14 can be a challenge to build for accuracy and work to master firing it (from a service rifle view). I put it on par with the 1911 pistol that you can build it for your purposes.

I just read through that entire thread, and it made me want to build an M14 as a gunsmithing school project if I get a chance to attend one. I have always felt that the M14 needed a pillar-bedding, and I love the way he did the pillar job in that progress report for the stock work. I have been wanting to do a .260 Rem M14, with my gas system idea and more palm swell in the grip, with closer to a vertical grip angle.

 

[cal50]

The M1A can be made to shoot but it take effort and some specific things to happen to make it work. Then to keep it in tune & running that way added tweaks or tune ups that another platform like the AR or bolt gun does not need.

I have gone back to the M1A platform for service rifle. I am at a disadvantage ballistically and it's harder to fire as accurate as an AR but it's as much fun and more challenging.

 

[r2048cab]

Jeremy,
Try to build from M14 kits, get mostly USGI & get the remainder from commercial . There is a place- TREELINE M14, check them out
so you can get idea. If you could get a forge receiver that is great better than cast. Hope I could help.

 

[jsnspck]

I agree that you should check out treelineM14, grab a synthetic stock and some parts, put a 18.5" criterion barrel on a springfield receiver and whatever makes you happy. I don't know what your idea of "inexpensive" or "accurate" is, but both can stretch the limits of those definitions when speaking of a M14. The post that spoke about reliability does count for a lot and I agree that the M14 is leaps and bounds ahead of other rifles that you can build in this area.

 

[pawprint2]

The last bayonet charge by US forces was in Korea, MOH was awarded, maybe there has been another in the past 50+ years that I haven't heard of, any real experts out there?