Gunsmithing M1A Stove Piping Cases

[Huck1969]

I would really appreciate help from the M14 and M1A experts on the forum.
My neighbor bought an M1A from a local gun store several years ago that specializes in "precision" long range rifles and he has had a continued problem with it stove piping cases. He has taken it back to the store and they claim to have sent it to a gun smith and had it "fixed" a couple of times but the problem persists. Specifically it seems to stove pipe after firing and ejecting about four rounds successfully. I don't know if this is due to heat build-up or fouling in the action. I have heard about a possible replacement fitting that allows the shooter to adjust the amount of gas ported to work the action. Is there such a thing and do you think that would remedy the problem?

 

[nicholst55]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

Yes, there are adjustable gas plugs for the M1A: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=699378 That's one.

Have your friend do this - insert a magazine loaded with one round into the rifle and fire it. See if the bolt locks to the rear. Repeat this several times. If the bolt fails to lock to the rear, he is experiencing short recoil.

The TM says that short recoil is caused by a defective (worn) gas cylinder or piston, loose gas cylinder plug, damaged op rod guide, or possibly a defective magazine or ammo. I would look at the gas cylinder and piston first.

The gas cylinder must not exceed 0.5009" in inside diameter; the gas piston must not be less than 0.4968" in diameter. Also insure that the spindle valve (the screw-head pin that runs through the back of the gas cylinder) is in the fully 'OPEN' position (straight up and down). This may or may not move; it just depends on how the rifle was assembled.

You might also try the rifle with different mags and (factory) ammo, to see if that makes a difference.

 

[donws2]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

Magazines are a common problem with the M14. If they are new take the mag apart and scrub the inside with scotch brite to remove some of the parking on the inside and the mab follower. Lightly oil the mag's and reassembly. Also, the mag needs to fit loosely when empty. If the mag is tight when unloaded then it will cause the bolt to drag and short stroke. We would file the lower edge of the mag rear lug so that the mag would rattle alittle. This helps allot. Donald

 

[Huck1969]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

Thank you for taking the time to help. I will get with my friend and use your advice. Sounds like the best start on this is getting him back to the range to see if the bolt locks back after single round firing.

 

[Huck1969]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

My friend is using Federal Gold Medal Match ammo so I don't suspect the ammo. I will try my mags in his rifle.
What burns me is that the local gun shop tried to sell me this rifle, advertising it as a New gun with a Krieger barrel. I didn't even take a close look as I wasn't interested. He bought it a few months later without consulting me and paid about $2K. I suspect the rifle was not new and it does not have a Krieger. The shop has since changed hands and is not offering support to stand by the product. Live and Learn.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

I'm sure somewhere in the shop is a sign that says firearms are warrantied by the manufacturer. That is the modus operandi for this industry.

Have him send it back to SAI. He should have done this in the first place.

 

[Huck1969]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

That's good advice and I'll pass it on to him. No doubt a sure way to remedy the problem but presents a practical issue for my friend. SAI may see this (not NIB when purchased and at least five years old) M1A as something they won't fix under warranty. After shipping, etc. this may cost him for a couple of hundred bucks. The shop where he bought it should have sent it back to SAI instead of (supposedly) sending it to THEIR local gunsmith; then 3 months later he got it back with the same problem.
I'll help him trying the suggestions from the Forum guys. If that doesn't do it he'll have to exercise the nuclear (SAI) option. Thanks.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

Mike Doy (president of SAI) would in no way consider using his customer service, by you or the dealer, as "the nuclear option". he stands behind all is products and their customer service is outstanding. From an end user standpoint the frequency of need of their services may be another issue, but he stands behind his product.

It could be as simple as needing an extractor, extractor spring, ejector, or ejector spring. Or it could be a bigger problem as SAIs have been known to have some dimensional issues.

Let them do their job rather than making a stink on the internet regarding the rifle and the dealer would be my suggestion.

 

[Kogapsp]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

I would check to see if the Gas valve is open all the way I have seen some that were partially closed. There can also be a blocked gas port hole in the barrel and or not lined up right with the gas assy. Check these first.

KN

 

[Top Cat]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

The gas port will collect carbon deposits if not cleaned regularly. When the gas piston is removed, a proper sized drill bit will clean out the valve, gas cylinder and the port through to the bore. There is a hole in the bottom of the GC for that purpose. Just by hand, not in a drill. Then a swab will clean out the rest.

The gas plug needs to be cleaned out with a different size drill if the carbon is built up there and the carbon cleaned off the piston and gas plug-cylinder threads as well. A dental pick works well for that.

It is supposed to be reassembled dry, but I silicone spray the parts before putting them back together and copper anti-seize on the gas plug threads.

The bolt itself needs to be maintained to make sure the internal parts are clean and move freely...like the ejector in this case, but taking the bolt apart is tricky for a novice. As an alternative, soak it in mineral spirits overnight, then blow it out with compressed air. Then oil it up and let the excess drain away.

Unlike the AR, all the other moving parts need to be greased, including the roller, op-rod guide, tab track, bolt lugs and receiver raceways.

TC

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

The gas cylinder threads onto the barrel and the two pieces have ports which need to be lined up. Issues that relate to possible weak cycling can often be traced to port misalignment.

This can be diagnosed by repositioning the gas cylinder one turn further in, or further out, and retrying the rifle's operation.

Often this will resolve the issue without further recourse.

Greg

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

The gas cylinder indexes hard off a shoulder on the barrel - there is no moving it in or out. the locking shoulder holds it tight in place.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

OK.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

If the gas his is mis-drilled, either misplaced or the wrong diameter, then SAI will replace the barrel.

If the rifle has a gas problem then it will short stroke and not eject the fired round - it will push it back into the chamber and over ride the one in the mag.

As stated above, stovepiping most likely has to do with the ejector or extractor.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

To the O/P...Who built the rifle? IF SAI send it to them and be done with it.
Also try some "white box" Winchester mil-spec ammo and whos mags are being used? How old is the action spring and has/could it been cut buy someone?
Respectfully,
LG

 

[stillbuster]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike Doy (president of SAI) would in no way consider using his customer service, by you or the dealer, as "the nuclear option". he stands behind all is products and their customer service is outstanding. From an end user standpoint the frequency of need of their services may be another issue, but he stands behind his product.</div></div>

As a SA customer I agree 100% it is my understanding that SA's warranty is "lifetime" of weapon, not the owner.

As far as "costing money" to return to SA, they cover that.
Try calling customer service, they will give you a shipping ID#, you box it up, carry it to the carrier of their choice, give them the customer ID # and SA has already paid for the shipping and insurance, at least they have on all of mine.
With customer service like that why buy anything else.

 

[nicholst55]

Re: M1A Stove Piping Cases

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The gas cylinder indexes hard off a shoulder on the barrel - there is no moving it in or out. the locking shoulder holds it tight in place. </div></div>

You can make minor adjustments in the position of the gas cylinder with shims. We're talking maybe .010" here, not anything huge.