M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

[NoExpert]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rojkoh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tactical unsound. You don't want to loose the use of iron sights with glass that can and does go down. </div></div>

I could take this bait but I might hurt my pinky typing and as we all know...pinkys can and do go down and then where would I be? No glass AND no pinky. That would be un-snipery. </div></div>

Hell, that's why you bought a USO, just in hopes it goes down so you can use it as a club, right?

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hell, that's why you bought a USO, just in hopes it goes down so you can use it as a club, right? </div></div>

Egg-zackly

 

[Michael]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

I bought a springfield M21 and just don't see all the issues you guys list. Sadlak mount has not lost zero in a decade, and it's been dropped a few times, new bedding from springfield ( rather than the old bisonite ) seems to last forever, and you don't need to break the action out of the stock for any, any, any reason in normal or harsh use.
Hot rounds, don't need them. 175's at 2550 are all that's required.
Bolt swap is about a 2 minute deal. Bolt maintenance with a uni-tool is also about 2 minutes for new springs, extractor, firing pin.
Accuracy, they're a 1 moa rifle. I'll work with a rifle that does 1 moa on a consistant basis, espessially at distance. Seen plenty of 3 shot 1/2 moa groups in pics but never in person, so it's a 1/2 moa rifle with a 3 shot standard ( same standard as the gaurantee that some custom bolt rifle makers use in their 1/4 moa claims. Slow bullets used there also.)

All that being said..............99% of shooters do not have the patience, or the quality instruction required, to learn to shoot this platform to it's potential. There are easier rifles to shoot and the shooting community is for that most part all about easy.

 

[insight3b]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought a springfield M21 and just don't see all the issues you guys list. Sadlak mount has not lost zero in a decade, and it's been dropped a few times, new bedding from springfield ( rather than the old bisonite ) seems to last forever, and you don't need to break the action out of the stock for any, any, any reason in normal or harsh use.
Hot rounds, don't need them. 175's at 2550 are all that's required.
Bolt swap is about a 2 minute deal. Bolt maintenance with a uni-tool is also about 2 minutes for new springs, extractor, firing pin.
Accuracy, they're a 1 moa rifle. I'll work with a rifle that does 1 moa on a consistant basis, espessially at distance. Seen plenty of 3 shot 1/2 moa groups in pics but never in person, so it's a 1/2 moa rifle with a 3 shot standard ( same standard as the gaurantee that some custom bolt rifle makers use in their 1/4 moa claims. Slow bullets used there also.)

All that being said..............99% of shooters do not have the patience, or the quality instruction required, to learn to shoot this platform to it's potential. There are easier rifles to shoot and the shooting community is for that most part all about easy.
</div></div>
You obviously haven't shot it much

 

[akjaeger]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

I'm an M1A nut, have a couple of LRB M-25's that shoot under an MOA. One in a bedded McMillan stock the other in a SAGE.
I love shooting the LRB in the McMillan. Whether it's from a bipod, ruck or just a good tight sling that rifle rocks. The Sage is every bit as accurate, but really begs to be shot off a bipod.
So then last summer I bought a SIG 716 Patrol Carbine, cuz it was short and I'd never played with an AR-10 before. This thing really shoots, easily sub-moa. Yesterday I was shooting from prone w/bipod @ 450 yards in a hayfield. Shot several groups in the 3"-4" range. Best 5 shot group was 3 3/8"!
Load was 168 AMAX over 42 gr of H4895, CCI -34 in Lake City brass.
None of my M1A's will shoot this good, even though they cost nearly twice as much.

 

[Michael]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

insight3b, only since 1986 and a few barrels. I guess that's not much right?

 

[Ranger413]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

I picked up a M1A Bush Rifle off of a friend a couple of years ago. I love it. At one point it was in a Sage EBR stock, but now it's back in the wood. I think its relatively light and handles well. I'm considering one of the bullpup-style stocks for it. I think that topped with a lower powered variable it would be a great do-all rifle. I used to shoot a Mini-14 too. Most folks think they're junk, but I liked the simplicity of it all. I've come to really like my Garand and M1A. I have an AR-15 as well, it it would probably be my go-to rifle if the crap hit the fan. Too many reasons why. But, the M1A would be a close second.

I haven't bought an AR-10 yet, so I can't comment on that. For local precision rifle matches I'm building up a Savage .308. Costs a lot less than either the M1A or AR and easier, at least for me, to work on.

 

[MontanaHick]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

I own a lightly modified Springfield M1A and a DPMS SASS. I've got POS scopes on both.

The M1A has a 1962 H&R barrel/bolt on Springy's 'modern' (read: ATF approved) receiver, a Sadlak NM recoil spring guide and a couple of shims (.015" worth, AFAIR) in the gas system. I've also put a saddle-style cheekrest on it, which allows me to drop it back almost to the comb should I ever 'need' to use the irons. It bangs out milsurp on steel at 500m all day long, and if I settle down and put halfway decent ammunition through it, I can shoot MOA or slightly less. I am NOT a proficient shooter, so I'm pretty sure the weapon can do better. Badly want a JAE stock for it.

However: For what I've got into the M1A, including parts and fuggabout mistakes, I dropped straight into my DPMS. 1/2 MOA weapon with only 43 rounds through it, the last 10 of which were FGMM 168s. Slightly less crappy scope on it than the M1A, but bolt-on-and-go, no fiddling with mounts, etc. It's as accurate as any weapon I own, no adjusting, no editing, no BS and no questions.

Will I ever get rid of my M1A? Hell no, not with the way it feels and not with it's sex appeal (yeah, I said it). However, unless I double what I've got into it (making it about double what I've got into the DPMS), it'll never shoot any better. Besides, before I do, I need to take some shooting courses and learn wtf I'm doing.

 

[Rainier42]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love my M1A. It's sub-MOA to 600 (max tested) and it looks like pure sex on a stick, BUT my AR-10 platform is a better rifle. I'd almost argue to keep the M1A. AR-10 platforms can be found used cheap and it's worth skipping a meal here and there to own both.

</div></div>

Nice! Which stock is your M1A mounted in?

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rainier42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice! Which stock is your M1A mounted in? </div></div>
Thanx. JAE Gen II

 

[silver78]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have had a personal weakness for the M1A/M14 since back when the M-14 my issue rifle for over a yeear in 'Nam. I love it for what it is and how well it does it. But it is not an ideal basis for a long range precision application

As far as other semi's are concerned, the AR platform has better potential for consistent accuracy, but again, would not be my choice for LR accuracy. It can do the job, but the ones that can simply cost more than I'm willing to invest simply to have it done by a semi.

To do the job right, use the preferred platform. That platform is the bolt action rifle. I think it gives a better return for the investment involved.

Finally, once you choose a platform for it's effectivenes, go the rest of the way, and choose a chambering for the same reasons. The .308's popularity and simplicity are not in question, but better selections are easy to find and implement.

Personaly, I believe that optimal 30 caliber projectiles require too much energy to employ comfortably. Steping down to 7mm and 6.5mm can be effectively accomplished without much fuss.

For 7mm, I like the .280 Rem, and for 6.5mm, I like the .260 Rem.

Greg </div></div>

From a factual standpoint Greg sums it up quite well. Even though he's right about caliber selection I stuck with the 308 as it is so popular. Perhaps I'm too conservative but that's what I did.

 

[silver78]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have M1A's, AR10's and bolt guns. I love M1A's but they are an entirely different beast than any other. Much more expensive and sensitive to accuracing than an AR10. I have a Fulton Armory Peerless grade that will shoot sub 1/2moa consistently when I do my part, but it also took a lot of work to get it there. The LMT MWS I have is also cheaper but almost as accurate. If I was to put a match barrel on it I believe it would meet the same accuracy of the M1A as the others I've shot do.

You just have to shoot what you want and what you can afford. The M1A will be much more to accurize depending on your needs but they are an amazing weapon. Just slightly harder to accurize than the AR system. </div></div>

Interesting that you mention a Fulton M1A. When I was considering the choice between the AR-10 vs the M1A I had a long discussion with Clint McKee the owner of Fulton Armory. We knew each other fairly well at the time and I had purchased a couple of Fultons 5.56 ARs from him. In the end he told me that I would probably be happier with an AR-10 considering my liking for accuracy and my budget. This was some years ago before Fulton offered an AR platform 308 rifle. So giving me this advice was giving up a sale for him since he only offered an M1A platform at the time. I always appreciated his honesty. But just before we ended our phone call he did say something like "the AR-10 may be a more accurate platform but it will never be an M1A." True words indeed.

 

[notyers]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

M1A all day! I shoot bolt guns mostly for 10 years and got 1 two years ago. I take it every time I go to the range now. Love that feel and sound from steel hitting!

 

[M21guy]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

ok back to naked call of duty and moutain dew </div></div>

There would be nothing wrong with that except for the fact they call themselves experts. I'm reminded of this kid that was in my police academy class telling me he was going to kick my butt in firearms because he knew I shoot a lot, but even so, he was an expert in call of duty. I told him I'd buy he and his GF a complete night out dinner, movie, hotel everything if he ended up beating me. He not only didn't, but barely passed. If he hadn't hit his last shot before his magazine fell out of his glock, he won't have passed at all. Moral of the story, not an expert and should shut mouth.

However even though I never done it totally naked, call of duty and lots of Mt Dew is fun entertainment when there is nothing else to do with the right partner.

Even an old guy can be hip sometimes.

 

[BCP]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: silver78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
From a factual standpoint Greg sums it up quite well. Even though he's right about caliber selection I stuck with the 308 as it is so popular.</div></div>

308 is the perfect caliber for a semi-auto. Wide range of bullet loadings and powders, accurate, long barrel life.

When you reach the limitations of the 308 cartridge you probably won't be using a semi anymore anyways which I think was Greg's point.

 

[rg1911]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

I love my M1A; it's what I used the last few years of high power competition before back surgery put an end to position shooting. With its Krieger barrel, it's a solid 1.5 MOA rifle (probably better with a better shooter). Plus it's beautiful. There's no way I'd sell it.

That said, the new sniper match rifle I'm having built is in .260 Rem on an Armalite AR-10 platform with Krieger barrel and the other goodies. I like the AR platform and it has the advantage of not having a large, long and heavy op rod slamming back and forth. Plus, it's easier to mount a scope.

Richard

 

[rojkoh]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: silver78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
From a factual standpoint Greg sums it up quite well. Even though he's right about caliber selection I stuck with the 308 as it is so popular.</div></div>

308 is the perfect caliber for a semi-auto. Wide range of bullet loadings and powders, accurate, long barrel life.

When you reach the limitations of the 308 cartridge you probably won't be using a semi anymore anyways which I think was Greg's point. </div></div>

Ah not true, you can use 30-06. The 7.62x51 (.308) never held up to the specs for the cartridge. It was supposed to perform similar to the '06 and never really did on a typical basis. M2AP was never equaled in .308. I've even tried loading the M2AP round in a .308 case... not a safe practice, but I had a strong action to test with.

 

[Luke]

Re: M1A vs Ar-10, am I too infatuated with the M1A?

FWIW - I traded in my bolt gun and AR-15 to try out an AR-10 platform, and while I'll keep the AR-10 for use as a "battle rifle", I dislike it as a long range gun simply due to it's ergonomics. You can't hug the ground with a big old' magazine sticking out the bottom, bolt manipulation while in the prone with the charging handle is awkward, unless you have a really low profile scope you might need a cheek riser which will mess with your charging handle clearance, and all the collapsible stocks I've used aren't comfortable to lay behind for any amount of time.

In contrast, with a well set up bolt gun I can comfortably lay low behind the gun and be comfortable enough to take a nap if I wanted. Being low and solid help me keep my fundamentals in order and makes things like follow through and watching bullet impact that much easier.