M40A1 Crown pic please?

[Sniper6]

Does anyone have a real good spec M40A1 muzzle / crown picture you could post or PM me?
I am working on a project that is not to spec but I would like to get it close as possible.
The pictures on google are too fuzzy and I am not sure they are to spec.
I am sure someone on SH has got one.

 

[7mmRM]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

No pic but this is the crown spec-

45 degree pullback, .090" deep.

 

[Sniper6]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Thanks 7mmRM, That does help.
I would still like an up close picture if anyone has one.

 

[kcshooter]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

go to gaps webite and look at the milspec rifles. There is a pic of the crown.

 

[Sniper6]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Ok. Here is what I have found, Some of these pictures are from right here on SH.
Most of them are fuzzy.
OK, #1, I cant tell if the inside of the crown rim slopes down to the muzzle like #2 or if it is cut straight in?.

#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

And just for fun, LOL, Check this shit out! Found it on a E-Gay add.

No, Seriously. If any of theese look like spec please let me know.

 

[Sniper6]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kcshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">go to gaps webite and look at the milspec rifles. There is a pic of the crown. </div></div>

OK, Going there now!

 

[kcshooter]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?


http://www.gaprecision.net/mil-spec-rifles/m40a3.html

 

[Sniper6]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Thank you <span style="font-weight: bold">kcshooter</span> That is just what I needed!
I can see it now, There is a slight slope from the rim down to the flat part of the inner muzzle.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

This picture gives you the layout of the USMC crown. .090" deep, 45 degree pull back.

 

[chad3]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

There is actually no true spec for the cut. Just to protect the crown/muzzle. If you do look at some of those pictures, some are the taper and some have almost a straight cut. Here is mine and built to spec.
Chad

 

[Sniper6]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Thank you <span style="font-weight: bold">wnroscoe</span> I will keep these by my Lathe as I am hacking up my barrel LOL.

When I get done I will post some pics. About 2 weeks.

 

[Sniper6]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chad3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is actually no true spec for the cut. Just to protect the crown/muzzle. If you do look at some of those pictures, some are the taper and some have almost a straight cut. Here is mine and built to spec.
Chad

</div></div>



SEE, that one is not sloped, it is cut straight in. Thanks <span style="font-weight: bold">chad3</span>, I think I am going to do it with a taper.

 

[6.81star]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

I think there is a spec and it is shown well in the M40A1 build sticky at and it looks like wroscoes. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[GunGuru727]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chad3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is actually no true spec for the cut. Just to protect the crown/muzzle. If you do look at some of those pictures, some are the taper and some have almost a straight cut. Here is mine and built to spec.
Chad

</div></div>


You just said there is no true spec...But then said yours is built to spec???

 

[chad3]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Really, you are going to go there? Did you read my post. There is no true spec other than to protect the crown. Does mine protect the crown? Yes. It is different between each builder. They learn it at the table and that is what each of them do. They do the same as their teacher and each does it a different way yet they all protect the crown. All the pictures above mine are different yet all are Marine pictures. They are all correct, just built by different builders. Know what you are talking about before you slam others.
Chad

 

[JamieD]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

It would be great if an military Armorer would chime in. From reading the post below, the crown itself is cut at 45 degrees. Intersting, is there any accuracy gain with this or just strickly to protect the crown?

Thanks,
JamieD
Wolf Precision

 

[allenst65]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

These are the A3 but perhaps they'll add to the topic.
Cheers !

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Allenst, where did you find this info at? Very interested in it. Is this from the new manual for the M40a5 as I see that is covered as well?

Thanks

 

[Sniper6]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

WOW! <span style="font-weight: bold">Allenst</span>, I dont know how you found that but I will keep that handy too.
Thank you.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamieD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would be great if an military Armorer would chime in. From reading the post below, the crown itself is cut at 45 degrees. Intersting, is there any accuracy gain with this or just strickly to protect the crown?

Thanks,
JamieD
Wolf Precision </div></div>

What it means is the 'chamfer' on the bore is 45 degree just to smoothen the transition from bore to perpendicular cut for crown.(some smiths leave this portion as I have and they shoot fine if no burrs, or you can cut a 45-60 degree chamfer or polish with a brass ball and a bit of fine abrasive compound...many ways of ending up with the same outcome) The crown then pictured is 90 degree to the bore and recessed. Then a 45 degree bevel from flat crown to the very end of barrel. Chad3's is just a different transition from end of barrel to actual crown. The deeper the crown the less likely it will be damaged. Most target/bench/hunting guns have no recess or very little. The Corp determined they needed a deep recess for there own general use.

Kinda comes down to what the smith is most comfortable cutting and if it has worked for him in the past. More of a perference thing and the Corps preference was .090 recess with a 45 degree transition to crown but different armourers still finished them to their liking. Hope this makes sense. Remington Varmint Specials had a flat crown for there 28yrs of existence then went to a dished 11ish degree recess when they went to the VS, PSS, VSSF etc. Winchester Heavy Varmints used a 11ish degree recess also

Link to 45* tool that is mentioned in article;

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=18296...R___STEEL_PILOT

Respectfully,
Dennis

 

[JamieD]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Thanks Dennis,
Breaks the edge of the rifling to give a clean exit of the bullet. I do something very similer on the lathe, a technique Gordy Griters calls an accuracy crown.

JamieD
Wolf Precision

 

[GunGuru727]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Chad3 -

Alright Internet badass don't get your bloody panties in a bunch. It was just the way you worded it, no need to get in defense mode.


In other words
Go fuck yourself

Much appreciated

GG

 

[GunGuru727]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Hey JamieD, sorry it was not directed towards you. Sorry about that.

GG

 

[JamieD]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

No Problem,
I had to go back and read my posts scratching my head : )

JamieD

 

[chad3]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

I said spec, you tried to call me out. Really? You want to go there? I said it was to spec. Is there anything else you need to know? Please tell me and I will be more than happy to give you more clues. Dennis gave you a great out, but if you don't want to take that please let me know.
Not a badass, just have a true spec gun you want to call out. Make sure you have the right plans before you try to call someone out.
Take it to PM if you wish. Much better than here.
Chad

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunGuru727</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chad3 -

Alright Internet badass don't get your bloody panties in a bunch. It was just the way you worded it, no need to get in defense mode.


In other words
Go fuck yourself

Much appreciated

GG </div></div>

Whether it was the way chad3 worded his post or the way you interpreted his comments you find it necessary as a newbie to tell him to "Go fuck yourself"? FYI chad3 is never a dick on this forum and always helpfull. Ever think that the way you posted your comments to his information brought the response it did? Don't understand why a keyboard brings out such vulgar responses. Do you make responses like this to strangers face to face?

While it is really none of my business I don't recall ever seeing a rude response from chad3 in his time here is the reason for asking. Suppose however I will get the same vulgar smack down!!!!

Respectfully,
Dennis

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Well said Dennis.

Lately there does seem to be a growing trend (predominantly amongst "newbs") to resort to less than polite language and put-downs....maybe their diet contains too many E numbers and they watch too much trashy TV? Or maybe that is how real "snipers" talk?

Certainly their lack of respect for others and basic communication skills leaves a lot to be desired!

Re: M40A1 spec discussion, I'd recommend a vist to Sench's "The One Round War" Chapter 15 - the "characteristics" of the muzzle crown are well described there.

Anyway....back to the topic:

Sniper6, here's a couple of pics of my GAP "M40A1" crown. You can see the sides are angled. Hope this helps:

 

[GunGuru727]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well said Dennis.

Lately there does seem to be a growing trend (predominantly amongst "newbs") to resort to less than polite language and put-downs....maybe their diet contains too many E numbers and they watch too much trashy TV? Or maybe that is how real "snipers" talk?

Certainly their lack of respect for others and basic communication skills leaves a lot to be desired!

Re: M40A1 spec discussion, I'd recommend a vist to Sench's "The One Round War" Chapter 15 - the "characteristics" of the muzzle crown are well described there.

Anyway....back to the topic:

Sniper6, here's a couple of pics of my GAP "M40A1" crown. You can see the sides are angled. Hope this helps:

</div></div>



All's i did was ask a Q and he has to be snappy with me because I must have "offended" him buy questioning what he was saying so yeah. I will say fuck you and I will be disrespectful. Sorry if you cant take it.

But thats just because I know how real snipers talk? What a douche bag thing to say.

Thanks
GG

 

[dontstrokeme]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

While out on a "USMC spec clone" info search I come and read this thread.



Well fuck me as well then....because boy'o you are out of line entirely.

 

[Sniper6]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well said Dennis.

Lately there does seem to be a growing trend (predominantly amongst "newbs") to resort to less than polite language and put-downs....maybe their diet contains too many E numbers and they watch too much trashy TV? Or maybe that is how real "snipers" talk?

Certainly their lack of respect for others and basic communication skills leaves a lot to be desired!

Re: M40A1 spec discussion, I'd recommend a vist to Sench's "The One Round War" Chapter 15 - the "characteristics" of the muzzle crown are well described there.

Anyway....back to the topic:

Sniper6, here's a couple of pics of my GAP "M40A1" crown. You can see the sides are angled. Hope this helps:

</div></div>

Thank you Sir, Those crown pictures are beautiful. That is what I had in mind.

 

[Hateca]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Same cut as above ignoring the OD of the barrel with a 60 degree chamfer at the crown.

 

[chad3]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

I won't go any farther, but since GAP is the go to guys on here, what coating do they use? HMMM, it is not spec in terms of the USMC. Great that lots are posting stuff that is GTG, yet mine it wrong just because. Check it, black oxide coating. Where is it?
Thanks people that doubt. Thanks for those that were behind me.
Back to the subject at hand, more than one is OK.
Chad

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

I like doing mine like that Randy, looks like it wasn't your first rodeo

. On a hunting or tactical type rifle you have to make an honest effort if you want to damage the crown when done like Randy's pic or even Chad's pic. For my welfare ass and road hunting coyotes with the muzzle down on the floorboards most the time I don't have to worry about any crown damage like you would with a flat crown like Remington used on their older Varmint Specials. In fact I just bought a 223 Varmint Special that has metal wear on edge of barrel and crown damage from floorboard surfing.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

chad3 - My GAP barrel is black cerakote

...but you are correct that the "spec" (or standard if that word is preferred by some

) for commercial parts for the M40A1 described by the USMC in 1976 states that the outer surface of the barrel be sand blasted and finished with black oxide.

 

[WRM]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

In 1976 they were probably using Chrome Moly barrels. Black Oxide and Stainless Steel are not a good "match".

Cheers,

Bill

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

WRM, the spec referred to in my previous post says the barrel material should be #416 grade stainless steel. There is a comment that it was a problem maintaining the black oxide finish on stainless barrels.

 

[WRM]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Interesting.... Thanks, BasraBoy,

Bill

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Bill (or anyone else), if you're interested this info is all from "The One Round War" by Peter Sench. A great book for those interested in the M40 lineage and USMC scout snipers in Vietnam

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

I second that for the book. Im reading it again for the hundredth time it seems like. There is a ton of great useful information about the M70, M40 and M40a1 to include the Redfield and Unertl scopes. I would suggest this book as well.

 

[chad3]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

So I guess the only issues with the differences between builders is the crown protection and the finish. We don't hear much about stamping, bedding etc. I do know that with some builders the black oxide (as USMC dunked the entire barreled action) will void the warranty as the did the inside as well as the outside. As I said earlier, it doesn't stick very well on the stainless and some pictures are almost silver after being worn enough.
I wish the crown issue can be settled during the post once and for all. The build guide is very good, but has missed a few small details.
Chad

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Chad
In the M40A1 thread George verified via Armourer's manual or whatever the crown specs

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=140283&page=2

I am on dialup and have trouble loading a new page sometimes but this is on the second page of the thread. Granted they more than likely were done different by some 2112's or perhaps different builders with different ideas but 45* seems to be the correct spec???? This going by George's post and not mine. HateCa's pic would be correct shape etc, only difference then would be .090 vs the pic Randy posted with .075 depth. Just a FYI.

 

[chip8541]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

Ive handled hundreds of M40s over a 8 year time span. All the crowns were exactly as the Gap build in Basra Boys pics. None looked like Chads crown. Yes black oxide is correct. My a1 im having built I asked why they wont on mine and Karey says they take liberty on the coating due to the durability with stainless.

 

[chip8541]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

The GAP crown is correct and yours is not Chad. Ive fondled them like my own junk. I know every mole. No disrespect intended.

 

[blakheaven]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

I think both crowns look good and accurate to spec respectively depending on the vast time period these rifles been in production. Also I wonder if the crown changed between the models when Hart barrels were used as opposed to Schneider's

 

[blakheaven]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

bump cause this is a useful thread

 

[hrt4me]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakheaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bump cause this is a useful thread </div></div>

+1

 

[fdkay]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

You said crown vic, right?

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

spec cut

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

This thread is hillarius, we have the USMC build specs for the M40A1 , A-3, and A-5 so im confident the crown we use is correct. Along with Eric Reid working here for 9 years and he built plenty of Real Ones when he was in the USMC as a 2112. and now he is back at the PWS Quantico. Im confident we will stay up to speed on any changes. Hell I will be inside PWS Quantico on the 4 th of Nov - the 6 th . Ill be sure to take a ton of pics of crowns to compleatly insure any doughting Thomas's that we are correct on our crown.

Chad is correct that there were lots of different 2112's and that they did different things. This was corrected when they finally adopted a Build Procedure in 1991-1992ish. this has an actual spec and drawings for the Crown among other things. There are actully complete blueprint drawings of the M40A3 and M40A5 outlining every aspect. The USMC also did somthing really good in 2005 they went to GS Employeyes for Instructors. so there is finally continuity in the training they recieve. All former 2112's which is what Eric Reid does now.

And yes we do go outside the spec on the coating becouse Black Oxide Sucks and customers would not be happy with the finish wiping off their barrel . The USMC doesnt care that this finish blows as the sniper that it gets issued to rattle cans it with krylon the moment he gets it.

 

[blakheaven]

Re: M40A1 Crown pic please?

DGUNN very nice pic of the nice crown and like this finish. A10XRIFLE, first of all want to say I am a big fan of you guys' work but don't get me started on the A5 lol. It seems to me that it violates the first thing they teach you at sniper training, never compromise. Not saying it isn't a fine weapon but shortening the barrel for urban use is a waste and limiting the long range capability. The USMC already has a fine urban sniper rifle in the M25. The A3 is a solid performer and there is no need to fix something that isn't broke. my 2. Ohh I digress have a good one and looking forward to those pics and by all means correct me and tell me why the A5 is necessary