M40A2 - What was it?

[Gunguy2112]

I do in fact still have all the 3 ring binders and I know who you are referring to, because I have only ever let one person that doesn't work here go through my books. I will not mention his name either. As you can see, I do not need to go to some archive because these records have never been archived. I have been working in the test facility since 2001 and these binders and log books have never been out of the test shed with the exception of 2006-7 when they were building the new facility. At which time all the records were locked up in PWS. I went thru the binders this morning and came across this mystery serial number that was indeed test fired on 2 Sept 1993 and on this history sheet it is an A1.
As for 12's having carte blanche to make a "hobby lobby" gun and call it whatever he wanted is probably more along the lines as to what you said. Again you are more than welcome to come out and go through the log book and the 3 ring binders. Plan for 2 days minimum.

 

[USMCSGT0331]

I do in fact still have all the 3 ring binders and I know who you are referring to, because I have only ever let one person that doesn't work here go through my books. I will not mention his name either. As you can see, I do not need to go to some archive because these records have never been archived. I have been working in the test facility since 2001 and these binders and log books have never been out of the test shed with the exception of 2006-7 when they were building the new facility. At which time all the records were locked up in PWS. I went thru the binders this morning and came across this mystery serial number that was indeed test fired on 2 Sept 1993 and on this history sheet it is an A1.
As for 12's having carte blanche to make a "hobby lobby" gun and call it whatever he wanted is probably more along the lines as to what you said. Again you are more than welcome to come out and go through the log book and the 3 ring binders. Plan for 2 days minimum.

Thank you for the information, it's interesting to see that it's marked as an A1. It's in line with what the other documents show for the nomenclature, each USMC entity referred to the upgraded A1 in a different manner. Is there anyway you can pull more information on that serial number? Why did that rifle have it's own binder as an M40A2? And why was SYSCOM referring to the upgraded A1 as the A2?

 

[Gunguy2112]

Thank you for the information, it's interesting to see that it's marked as an A1. It's in line with what the other documents show for the nomenclature, each USMC entity referred to the upgraded A1 in a different manner. Is there anyway you can pull more information on that serial number? Why did that rifle have it's own binder as an M40A2? And why was SYSCOM referring to the upgraded A1 as the A2?

Best guess on the SYSCOM paperwork was that was probably done by a tech writer that doesn't know squat about guns. I actually found that history paperwork in the school houses paperwork, not an A2 binder. I have yet to find that unicorn. I have hunted that serial number for a day and a half now and that's the only B serial number I have found so far. I'm going to dig into some rifle team binders next. We have always done experimental stuff for them, maybe find it there.

 

[Paradox]

So I got the book "The Complete Book of US Sniping" by Peter Senich and in the section about the M40A1, it shows a picture of a rifle and calls it the M40A2. Now I've never heard of this, I always assumed it went from A1 to A3 (although didn't know why). So what was different about the M40A2 compared to an A1? I see that it has a bipod attached and what appears to be a Leupold Optic instead of the Unterl.

On a somewhat related note while trying to do some research I found this:

View attachment 7532303

Differences

	M40A1	M40A3	M40A5
Weight (w/scope)	6.57 kg (14.45 lb)	7.5 kg (16.56 lb)	7.5 kg (16.56 lb)
Overall Length	1.117 m (44.0 in)	1.124 m (44.25 in)	1.124 m (44.25 in)
Barrel Length	(25 in)	(25 in)	(25 in)
Barrel	Hart	Schneider Match Grade Stainless-Steel USMC Barrel	Schneider Stainless-Steel
Lands and Grooves	6	6	6
Rifling	RH 1:304.8 mm (1–12")	RH 1:304.8 mm (1–12")	RH 1:304.8 mm (1–12")
Stock	McMillan HTG	McMillan Tactical A4	McMillan Tactical A4
Scope	Unertl 10×	Unertl 10× with US Optics upgrade Schmidt & Bender 3–12×50 M8541	Schmidt & Bender 3–12×50mm Police Marksman II LP scope

 

[Pinmaster]

I had one of the parts suppliers for the M40A3/M40A5 tell me that they knew of an "A2" project since they were involved. I believe that he said that he built a prototype. Of course this is hearsay, but I believed what he told me at the time. It seems that during the transition from A1 to A3 some called the "tweener" rifle an A2 while other folks called it nothing but an updated A1. I have a rifle built as an A2 clone, but it is just a personal fantasy rifle for me lol.

I'm thankful that the most knowledgeable folks are involved in this thread. It's great that they have the proper documentation and personal involvement with the M40A generations.

 

[OldNFO]

I wish! The info I just provided was from a friend, I tried to "@" him here, but his handle doesn't show up, so I'm not sure if he's on the forum anymore. He found the info, literally just a page with what I previously posted. I truly hope more info surfaces in the future, I'd love to know how the A2 was configured! Even though it's a prototype, it's still important in the M40 lineage.

Does anyone here know any 2112's from the early 90's? Seems like the next logical step is to interview someone who worked at the RTE shop during this time and see what they remember. The A2 did exist, it might have been a one-off or a few produced, but it did exist.

Eric Hight? He was a 2112 at Quantico in the 90s, but I'm not sure when. He was a GAP, but I heard he went back to work at Quantico. He assembled my M40A1 clone.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

There was an actual A2, a recoilless rifle. My Buddy from high school was a gunner for one in Korea while I was assigned to 'Nam. Used a 105mm (AKA 106) main round and a 12.7x77mm spotter round.

M40A2.

 

[Skunk]

Eric Hight? He was a 2112 at Quantico in the 90s, but I'm not sure when. He was a GAP, but I heard he went back to work at Quantico. He assembled my M40A1 clone.

You’re speaking of Eric Reid.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Best guess on the SYSCOM paperwork was that was probably done by a tech writer that doesn't know squat about guns. I actually found that history paperwork in the school houses paperwork, not an A2 binder. I have yet to find that unicorn. I have hunted that serial number for a day and a half now and that's the only B serial number I have found so far. I'm going to dig into some rifle team binders next. We have always done experimental stuff for them, maybe find it there.

What barrels do the USMC Nat'l Match Service Rifle team use on their AR's? Just curious.

 

[Gunguy2112]

What barrels do the USMC Nat'l Match Service Rifle team use on their AR's? Just curious.

We have been all over the map on those. Saturn was the lead dog for years and we have since switched to Bartlein. Why, I couldn't tell you. However working in the test facility, I can tell you that decision was a good one.

 

[Gunguy2112]

We have been all over the map on those. Saturn was the lead dog for years and we have since switched to Bartlein. Why, I couldn't tell you. However working in the test facility, I can tell you that decision was a good one.

Or at least seems to be at this time.

 

[jself1976]

A guy at my gun club has one of the Ed Brown M40s.

They have nothing to do with USMC rifles.

They are built on a Win Model 70 clone action.

I was shooting my made at PWS M40A1 and he was there with his telling me how his rifle was built exactly like the ones the Marine Corps used.

I just keep quiet at time like this.

Not trying to start an argument, but didn't our beloved Corps initially use Model 70's in .30-'06? But I get your drift. I think I told my wife the same thing when she saw the bill for my complete-with optic M16A4 clone.

 

[Lowlight]

Oh boy the Model 70 story,

USMC tried a few, said no thanks stuck the rest in Special Services and a dozen or so made it to Vietnam

Next thing you know it won the War for the Marines

Ps they only issued Odd Numbers until the A6

 

[shootrj2003]

Yeah the Ed Brown ad was just another reference to the term. As for the recoilless rifle, there was one also designated the M40A1 as well as a has mask with the same designation wasn't there?

But the Mcmillan one in the book I figured might be a little different since Mcmillan did supply the stocks for the M40A1. I found a post here in Sniper's Hide that mentions there was an M40A2 in testing but it seemed like it was in a different stock (more like an early M40A3 stock?) and not the rifle mentioned in the book.

So was the "M40A2" mentioned in both books built by the USMC or was it something like Mcmillan themselves put together?

It was probably a military like title applied to a tactical like ,sniper like rifle to attract customers who wanted the closest thing to a Marine Corps.sniper rifle they could afford ,for the tacticool factor and to impress folks who also did not know the fine points of I’D ing the real thing.Ed Brown ,could then also say it was done that way to avoid being mixed up with the real thing ,and it still probably got buyers.Hell,it still probably shoots pretty good.

 

[Lowlight]

The USMC never had a A2, period end of discussion

They never went with an even number until the A6, and even then I told them they were fucking up

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Fucking up with regards to the nomenclature or the overall design of the M40A6 itself?

 

[Lowlight]

Just the A6 part, going with an Even number was dumb and bucks tradition

 

[mydejavooo]

Does this fall into that "unicorn" category?

 

[mydejavooo]

 

[mydejavooo]

 

[Skunk]

Does this fall into that "unicorn" category?

Nope. That’s commercially built, or JAFR (Just Another Fucking Rifle).