I hated jumping the 240. The Lima version has lightened it up a bit, but it is still a big old bitch.
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M60 vs M240 vs M249
- Thread starter Forgetful Coyote
- Start date
No, the 240 D and the 240E1 model was/is used on airframes with spade grips however they created an "egress" kit(Infantry mod kit) that put a buttstock,pistolgrip,barrel handle and a rear/front sight on it so aircrews could take and use the weapon with them if they had to ditch the airframe. The model you posted above is the 240C and is used on Bradleys, LAVs and M1 Abrams as pictured.
They also make a 240H which is for Army aircraft. I've got a few hours behind one and it's by far my favorite of the three listed in the OP.
The canopy in use is 370 sq ft. We're currently transitioning from the MC-4 to the RA-1 system and the new RA-1 flies and handles more All Up Weight than the MC-4 so the performance and landings are a lot better. Regardless, the canopy is larger than most tandem canopies being used by civilians. Don't get me wrong, you can still have a bad landing but with the increased AUW of the RA-1 big guys with 100lb rucks are no longer coming in like a bat out of hell. Also keep in mind at 50 jumps, you have more jumps than a basic HALO graduate. The difference being is that new HALO graduate has full combat equipment night time Oxygen jumps under his belt when he graduates with his 20-28 jumps. So it's not that they have serious skill at that point, they just learned from the beginning how to deal with all the extra pieces.
I see you're in Arlington, Va. You jump at Orange or Del Marva?
IWI Israel Factory Tour - Home of the Tavor - YouTube
The discussion on LMG starts about 12 minutes in. I most definitely agree with this guy on which MG I prefer.
The discussion on LMG starts about 12 minutes in. I most definitely agree with this guy on which MG I prefer.
Orange. Started there in 2011 and took two years to get my A. I only get down there on average once a month so I haven't progressed very far - just breaking into RW right now. Haven't jumped Del Marva yet, but I might be moving up to Annapolis soon. It's a heck of a fun time. Before I quit I definitely want to get in a B-17 jump and a high altitude jump. But for now, just getting some more experience and comfort in the sky is my main goal. I'm still pretty nervous every time until I get out the door. Hard to imagine how those guys learning all the standard freefall and canopy skills with the additional gear get done in under 30 jumps. Steep learning curve. Then again, they're probably repeating drills over and over all day while we're bs'ing in the hangar and watching people's gopro vids.
Right on, I used to jump at Orange years ago when I was stationed in Va. Great place to jump and great group of people.
Thanks for the replies yall. Moreso thanks for your service. The liberals out there and liberal dominated media may not appreciate what yall do but there are people out there who do.
Mr. Kraig, thats very interesting. I never knew that. Do you have a picture or maybe a description of what the crown looks like on the M60 to get it to shoot like that? Also, do you know if that is done on the M2? Makes one think that machine guns have some untapped accuracy in them. Come to think of it, I would think the M2 .50 doesnt have the built-in dispersion via the crown seeing as how GySgt. Carlos Hathcock can make a 2500yd shot with one, I could be wrong though. Then again, like has been said, a bit of dispersion is useful for MGs. Though at 800+ yd, I think Id rather have as much accuracy as possible.
Also, has anyone tried out the new M27 IAR yet? And for that matter, for anyones that shot one, what do you think of the PKM compared to our stuff? Ive always heard/read nothing but good things on the PKM. Also, what about some of the other ones, again for anyone thats shot one, what did you think of the HK MGs? HK21, MG3, MG4, etc?
One more thing, completely off-topic otherwise, but did our soldiers ever see any .300 Win Mag M24s excluding the M2010 configuration? And with that, are the M2010s now officially adopted and being fielded to our soldiers, or is it still kind of an experimental thing?
Mr. Kraig, thats very interesting. I never knew that. Do you have a picture or maybe a description of what the crown looks like on the M60 to get it to shoot like that? Also, do you know if that is done on the M2? Makes one think that machine guns have some untapped accuracy in them. Come to think of it, I would think the M2 .50 doesnt have the built-in dispersion via the crown seeing as how GySgt. Carlos Hathcock can make a 2500yd shot with one, I could be wrong though. Then again, like has been said, a bit of dispersion is useful for MGs. Though at 800+ yd, I think Id rather have as much accuracy as possible.
Also, has anyone tried out the new M27 IAR yet? And for that matter, for anyones that shot one, what do you think of the PKM compared to our stuff? Ive always heard/read nothing but good things on the PKM. Also, what about some of the other ones, again for anyone thats shot one, what did you think of the HK MGs? HK21, MG3, MG4, etc?
One more thing, completely off-topic otherwise, but did our soldiers ever see any .300 Win Mag M24s excluding the M2010 configuration? And with that, are the M2010s now officially adopted and being fielded to our soldiers, or is it still kind of an experimental thing?
The guys in my Squadron's sniper platoon were rolling with 7.62x51 rifles. and as for the M2 and accuracy... when you can rip a truck apart at 1700 meters, I'd say it's pretty accurate. The M2 is an angry, loud, accurate SOB.
69/70 RVN We had a Maremont Pig.
Great gun and always did it's part. We just hated humping that Bitch.
If we thought we might need it it was always ready to go and when hooked up or lashed up it put it out.
Love you " Lady Di" Regards, FM
Great gun and always did it's part. We just hated humping that Bitch.
If we thought we might need it it was always ready to go and when hooked up or lashed up it put it out.
Love you " Lady Di" Regards, FM
Unlike most in this thread, I prefer the 240, especially with the 240L being several pounds lighter than my old 240B. I was on a 240B team for my first year in the Infantry and it is a very capable MG of which I have no complaints. Compared to the M60s and M249s I have served with it was more accurate, more reliable, and has a longer effective range. Someone asked about the gas setting on the old 240B regulator and they were for 650, 750, and 950 rounds per minute. The higher settings according to some also helped the guns digest blanks a bit better too.
M60 is a good MG and I enjoy the nostalgia while shooting it, but the bipod issue has been addressed and at this point in their career the M60 is just worn out. If you take a look at the size, design, and number of parts in the M60 I don't see how it could possibly compare to the 240 for reliability.
No contest in firepower compared to the SAW which in my opinion is a heaping pile of crap. I was a SAW gunner for one field problem. Our platoon started with 5 working SAWs because the 6th was broken. By the end of the field problem we had 1 that still worked and it wasn't mine as the feed tray cover fell apart while breaking brush. They have cheap stamped steel receivers spot welded together, weak little springs, and poor engineering and tolerances in general.
The PKM is an ok MG for it's purpose which suits Russian practice of more quantity and less quality. They are pretty reliable and pack a punch but have significantly shorter effective range.
MG3s have a ridiculous rate of fire and are a bit finicky in reliability from the little experience I have with them. They would be devastating to be on the receiving end though and they are the only MGs I know of that can shoot ammo with multiple kinds of linked ammo.
The M2010s are issued now and our M24s have left us sadly. Judging by the serial numbers on the M2010s they are made from the receivers of the M24s would be my guess. We also have the Mk13 in .300WM but that is another story.
I don't have any experience with the other weapons you asked about.
Sweet. Thanks McCrazy. Thanks for your service sir. Are you still in the Army? If you know, what have our troops thought of the M2010 so far? Also, you say yall had Mk. 13s? Does the plain-jane Infantry get those as well now? Or are you with one of the SOCOM badass units? Not asking for any names or anything so shoot me down if I was out of line with that question..
Also, from what Ive seen, the Mk. 13s have Lilja barrels, any idea whats on the M24 and M2010?
Thanks for replying yall.
Also, from what Ive seen, the Mk. 13s have Lilja barrels, any idea whats on the M24 and M2010?
Thanks for replying yall.
Agreeing with several of the other posters, I favored the M60 as well, specifically the M60E3 and Mk43 over the M249's. Our units didn't have M240's, but we used them on ops/exercises with other units. The E3's and Mk43's we had were extremely reliable, and very accurate once you mated them to a new barrel and sighted it in carefully. Then you'd mark that barrel w/ your name and use it in the field. You'd sort through the bin of spare used barrels that weren't shot out, and find one that hit pretty close to your sights, and use that on all the training exercises, that way your good barrel wouldn't get burned up in training...
As previously posted, jumping any of the big guns was a bit of a pain, particularly static line. Haven't seen anyone mention swimming them though (other than that awesome photo that Papa Three Zero posted); that was a real bear - not so much floating the 60 (bungee to a spare UDT life vest or a couple spare haversack bladders), but all the other ammo boxes in your kit.
The 2 things that I absolutely would not leave home without when humping a machine gun were:
1) a flat head screwdriver with long thin shaft for clearing jams/stuck links. Always kept one in a sleeve attached to sheath of my knife on my 2nd line gear, and
2) rag for wiping the sand out of the feed tray (those medical cravats worked OK, and wrist sweatbands worked perfectly).
As previously posted, jumping any of the big guns was a bit of a pain, particularly static line. Haven't seen anyone mention swimming them though (other than that awesome photo that Papa Three Zero posted); that was a real bear - not so much floating the 60 (bungee to a spare UDT life vest or a couple spare haversack bladders), but all the other ammo boxes in your kit.
The 2 things that I absolutely would not leave home without when humping a machine gun were:
1) a flat head screwdriver with long thin shaft for clearing jams/stuck links. Always kept one in a sleeve attached to sheath of my knife on my 2nd line gear, and
2) rag for wiping the sand out of the feed tray (those medical cravats worked OK, and wrist sweatbands worked perfectly).
I just came across this just declassified document that inarguably proves the M-60 is the superior weapon. 
Sad to see all the hate on the saw. I couldn't get that thing to jam! Maybe with blanks but like I said earlier only twice, even in Iraq. Mind you, there were quite a few days where it was high triple digits thru the beast as well. Maybe our armorers kept these things top notch, or maybe you all were using too much CLP. I barely used any, and when I did it was in strategic locations, (in the bolt rail and feed lips). The rest was just a wipe down with a rag with a couple drops on it. I guess YMMV.
Mr Kraig, when you say MG teams what do you mean exactly? Is the M60 still used in competitions? Because I know way back when, the BAR was actually used in the National Trophy Infantry Team Match, do they still have matches where a MG is part of the team? I know the Infantry Team Match now is all rifles but figured they might still have some that use MGs.
Thanks.
Teams: They are crew served weapons, so it is referred to as a MG team. The SAW is a system deployed by an individual within a squad. The 60 and 240 were deployed conventionally by a team. Gunner, assistant gunner, and ammo bearer. MTOE's are a little different depending on units, and manning dictate wether you have a AB or not. The Gun team leader was usually the AG position. They are there to direct fires onto targets within the areas designated by the squad leader. Team leader is usually the most senior man on the team. Gunner is usually the big guy that can hump the gun, or the littlest dude around, somehow it's never anyone in-between(Joking, but it seemed like that).
I don't know what type or matches or guns are used now. I retired in '92, though for the next two years I was called back to run our state competitions getting them ready for the Wilson Matches (NG Championships). The Matches were more of a precision event then a machine gun match. It was all about trigger control, If you could keep the shot to one or two per trigger pull you were better off. The M-60 was quite accurate. If you had a good barrel, and tightened up all the rivets, it was about the trigger. We shot from 200-600 yards if I remember right.
I never competed, I was over grade, the maxium grand for MG teams was E-6 or below. When I was involved I was either a E-7 or Officer after OCS. I also ran Machine Gun schools using the M-60, but these were conducted with the tri=pods, using the gun as a Machine Gun instead of an assault riflt.
I have never been in the military but I watched the military channel last week and they were comparing small arms and they featured these three weapons. All I could think was OMG! I actually felt sorry for the SOB on the other end of all that devastation. Reminds me of the Curt Russell line in TOMBSTONE, "tell them I'm coming and I'm bring Hell with me!"
Ok I didn't feel that sorry for the SOB, it's your choice to line up against or guys.
Ok I didn't feel that sorry for the SOB, it's your choice to line up against or guys.
Don't forget that the Ohio Ordnance 240 is a semi auto that fires from a closed bolt. So it's a big heavy 308 that doesn't jump around when you shoot it. I'd like to run one on a Crow system and see how it does.
I just came across this just declassified document that inarguably proves the M-60 is the superior weapon.
ROFLMMFAO! Does that mean my FAM14 DMR is the most bad assest rifle because of the 'shoulder thing that goes up'?
BWA HAHAHAHAHAHA
I remember humping a worn out M60 as an PV2; jumping it was even worse. They were super rattly and required constant upkeep, so I didn't think much of it. But getting an afternoon with an E4 changed my impression of the weapon system, partially because it was lighter and the bipod was in a better location, but mostly because it was fairly new and solid. And while I think the 240 was a smart upgrade, it's less than ideal for humping or jumping. Vehicle mounted? Sure. If I could do it all over again, I'd run an HK21. I put part of a belt down with one of those and was blown away at how accurate it was. I was already jealous of the guys rockin' it, but after shooting it I was even more so.
I registered just to reply to this thread. What a great read!
I was in 7rh ID (LIGHT) 90 - 93. 60 was my weapon. Was darn pissed when we had to give them up. First stage was to go to MK19. MK19?!?! really?!?! No ability to hump that sucker. Strategic rather than tactical for sure! But I was deadly with that sucker! Accurate once you get the hang of it. Then came the SAWs from the Rangers that used them in Panama Operation Just Cause.
Nope, found a regulation that allowed us to keep ONE 60. Got it back in our platoon and was damn happy! We had the light infantry mod kit. You did not want to max up the cyclic rate, as it would screw with head space and timing after too many rounds.
Did not get to carry one in D-Storm... and I think I am happy fine as it was hot enough without having to lug one of those. If you configured the sling carry correctly, you could rest your arms on top of the pig and counter balance the ruck! While my MOS was NOT infantry, our CG mandated that we were all Light Fighters first, MOS qualified second. AND I LIKED IT! Was the hardest last three years of my service learning how to be a leg and NOT moan and groan (out-loud). Final push to full manhood was sling carrying my pig.
She was a good girl, never let me down, and having learned the proper 3 - 5 round burst, accurate as hell. Anyone who says otherwise was spray and pray dude. OH YEAH, insane mode would often create cook-off issues prior to the head space issues and one would have to twist the belt to get er done. Then you needed to wait a bit until she cooled down and you never want to try to change that barrel when she is a$$ hot! Save that hollywood shit until the firefight is live or die; controlled burst would provide proper suppression without farting all yer ammo away!
Thank you sooo much for helping me reflect on my time at Planet Ord and my pig! It was great reliving those memories for a moment and I hope some of you had a similar jolt. SW
I was in 7rh ID (LIGHT) 90 - 93. 60 was my weapon. Was darn pissed when we had to give them up. First stage was to go to MK19. MK19?!?! really?!?! No ability to hump that sucker. Strategic rather than tactical for sure! But I was deadly with that sucker! Accurate once you get the hang of it. Then came the SAWs from the Rangers that used them in Panama Operation Just Cause.
Nope, found a regulation that allowed us to keep ONE 60. Got it back in our platoon and was damn happy! We had the light infantry mod kit. You did not want to max up the cyclic rate, as it would screw with head space and timing after too many rounds.
Did not get to carry one in D-Storm... and I think I am happy fine as it was hot enough without having to lug one of those. If you configured the sling carry correctly, you could rest your arms on top of the pig and counter balance the ruck! While my MOS was NOT infantry, our CG mandated that we were all Light Fighters first, MOS qualified second. AND I LIKED IT! Was the hardest last three years of my service learning how to be a leg and NOT moan and groan (out-loud). Final push to full manhood was sling carrying my pig.
She was a good girl, never let me down, and having learned the proper 3 - 5 round burst, accurate as hell. Anyone who says otherwise was spray and pray dude. OH YEAH, insane mode would often create cook-off issues prior to the head space issues and one would have to twist the belt to get er done. Then you needed to wait a bit until she cooled down and you never want to try to change that barrel when she is a$$ hot! Save that hollywood shit until the firefight is live or die; controlled burst would provide proper suppression without farting all yer ammo away!
Thank you sooo much for helping me reflect on my time at Planet Ord and my pig! It was great reliving those memories for a moment and I hope some of you had a similar jolt. SW
I meant to provide this link .. Texas has an M60 E6 model. Details on this upgrade are in this dude's video!
