Make Your Case: Long Action as your only rifle

[reich10]

Edited Post:
The Case: Short Action Shane has accused Long Action Larry of not be a viable option for a Do-it-All rifle set up(see requirements below). You are Long Action Larrys Defense attorny and you think Short Action Shane has a point but you still need to provide a solid defense stating factual information in possibly a smart ass way to sway the Jury.

Example: SAS Attorny to LAL: "Long Action Larry can you reliably feed .223 from one of your dbms..." LAL attorny aka You:"Objection your honor, i thought we were talking about Bolt action calibers and not little bitch semi auto calibers."

Make Your Case!

Original Post:
If a guy wanted to have one rifle that he could use to shoot any competition (PRS/NRL/NF Steel Challenge/Steel Safari/Hornady Precision Steel Hunter/"ELR Limited Class") with and also hunt anything in North America would it be best to get a long action or have the short action magnums made them obsolete? I am basing this off of either a Big Horn Origin Long Action or Short action so swapping calibers between standard bf and magnum bf would be easy.

LA Pros:
More Top end when it comes to caliber choice as well as solid standard bf calibers like the '06s and the -284s.
Can also run SAUM, WSM, and 6.5 PRC without mag length restrictions.
______?

LA Cons:
Missing out on the smaller 6mm and .22 variants
Magazines for competition- Literally have only found 1 type of 10 round magazines
______?

**I'm Not interested in the "why dont you just get both" comments but if you cant help yourself cause you have nothing to contribute please be my guest.**

 

[Dai Bando]

One gun?

This is America son.

Pass the 7 WSM

 

[Sixfivesavage]

AXMC because every other long action magazine sucks dick.

 

[phlegethon]

What magazines have you found? I think that is a big problem except for the AXMC mentioned above.

 

[The D]

I may as well repeat my broken record again, ARC Mausingfield. Available with .585 bolt face to shoot Lapua and/or Norma magnums so you can shoot the big’uns way far out there. It’s also available with all of the bolt faces down to .384 if you would like to make a trainer setup with .223 rem, this comes with it’s share of potential feeding issues so just be cognizant of that.

A long action Mausingfield with .473, .540, & .585 bolt faces is my dream setup. I’ll be able to load some .22BR down enough to get my sons to start shooting and also be able to shoot 300 Norma/.338 Lapua to as far as I can find land, and everything in between

 

[XLR308]

Unless long range hunting for some of the biggest animals in North America or shooting true ELR matches that you would most likely be outgunned even with a long action what's the point.
Many of the short mags can be run in the medium actions and with the performance that the Sherman Short cartridges have I don't see the point.
Using a medium size action also gives you the benefit of running the smaller caliber and cartridges you listed as well as an abundance of quality magazines available.

 

[reich10]

One gun?

This is America son.

Pass the 7 WSM

Haha i guess i should have said one bolt gun. I own several firearms and plan to own alot more.

 

[b6graham]

Short action
223 easy obviously
Competition cartridges easy obviously
Short action magnums are more than sufficient for hunting and the 'ELR' matches where plenty of guys use smaller stuff even in a 308 boltface. SAUM and Sherman and WSM cases provide plenty of options. 180 class 7mms at 2900-3000

I'd never want to mess with long action mags in a true PRS type match especially with 308 based cartridges and forget 223 and BR stuff

Or go true middle ground with a tikka/defacto but your mags are a little trickier with this and may need multiple stocks/chassis for short and 'long action modes

 

[reich10]

AXMC because every other long action magazine sucks dick.

Love the AXMC but its a little to rich for my blood, plus i dont want to tote that damn thing on an Elk hunt.

 

[XLR308]

Love the AXMC but its a little to rich for my blood, plus i dont want to tote that damn thing on an Elk hunt.

A medium profile barrel in 338 Federal would be potent medicine for that purpose.

 

[reich10]

What magazines have you found? I think that is a big problem except for the AXMC mentioned above.

Accuracy Internation is the only company i have found to make a 10 round long action magazine to fit AICS DBMs.

 

[b6graham]

Accuracy Internation is the only company i have found to make a 10 round long action magazine to fit AICS DBMs.

With a 3.625 coal...so no 300PRC or long 300WM

 

[reich10]

Unless long range hunting for some of the biggest animals in North America or shooting true ELR matches that you would most likely be outgunned even with a long action what's the point.
Many of the short mags can be run in the medium actions and with the performance that the Sherman Short cartridges have I don't see the point.
Using a medium size action also gives you the benefit of running the smaller caliber and cartridges you listed as well as an abundance of quality magazines available.

Medium action really isnt an option for me. I would agree with those points though. I hadnt considered the Sherman Short cartridges which look to be true short action designs. That said they have some pretty wicked long action Shermans as well.

As far as ELR I wouldnt expect to compete in KO2M but i think the NF ELR style matches might see a rise in popularity as they are more accessable.

 

[reich10]

With a 3.625 coal...so no 300PRC or long 300WM

Correct but those would most likely be used with a Hawkins M5 BDL. The 10 rounder would be for competitions. I am obviously not planning on placing top 5 in a PRS/NRL national match with this set up, just be able to compete. The majority of competition shooting would be one day local matches and a couple two day national matches, in particular the NF ELR and Hornady Hunting Match and the like.

They way I see it you can get a Long action +2 or 3 extension for the magpul AICS mags and get roughly 8 to 9 rounds or 25-06, 6.5-284 etc and then either do a mag change or grab from the two round holder.

 

[Steel head]

I’d do a short action
You can run 223 or 6BR in my SA nuke and I’ve had my 7 saum barrels out to 3000 so far.

 

[reich10]

I’d do a short action
You can run 223 or 6BR in my SA nuke and I’ve had my 7 saum barrels out to 3000 so far.

Give me your best "screw short action, Long action all the way" argument. If you were on the defense of the long action what would your case be?

 

[BadAccountant]

Win 70 or other CRF long action in .280 AI.

 

[Steel head]

Give me your best "screw short action, Long action all the way" argument. If you were on the defense of the long action what would your case be?

Well long action could do lapua bolt face or longer 300 magnums.
Favoring ELR over PRS type shooting.

 

[XLR308]

Give me your best "screw short action, Long action all the way" argument. If you were on the defense of the long action what would your case be?

BAT L action in 375 Cheytac, got everything from squirrels and elephants to run away vehicles covered.

 

[reich10]

post updated.

 

[XLR308]

post updated.

All joking aside, you are obviously dead set on a long action.
It may not be the latest and greatest but there is nothing wrong with the good old 300WM or any of the 7mm magnums.
I would personally pick something that is readily available both loaded ammo and brass readily available.

 

[reich10]

All joking aside, you are obviously dead set on a long action.
It may not be the latest and greatest but there is nothing wrong with the good old 300WM or any of the 7mm magnums.
I would personally pick something that is readily available both loaded ammo and brass readily available.

I think i am honestly leaning towards short action just cause i think it could be less of a headache. But i love the thought of a Long Action in 25-06 for comp use and a 30in 338 Edge for an elr match if i wanted to try it out. Thats why i would like to hear a good defense as to why LA is a better way to go given the needs/wants described. Keep in mind either way i am not stuck with just one caliber as i will be using an action that i can switch barrels on at the house. That is an important piece to consider.

 

[XLR308]

I think i am honestly leaning towards short action just cause i think it could be less of a headache. But i love the thought of a Long Action in 25-06 for comp use and a 30in 338 Edge for an elr match if i wanted to try it out. Thats why i would like to hear a good defense as to why LA is a better way to go given the needs/wants described. Keep in mind either way i am not stuck with just one caliber as i will be using an action that i can switch barrels on at the house. That is an important piece to consider.

The biggest reason and advantage is if you actually need a cartridge with more power and down range energy than what can be realistically stuffed into a medium action.

 

[reich10]

AXMC because every other long action magazine sucks dick.

@orkan I'd like to put in a request for a kit similar to your 6BR mag kit to run short action sandard/mag bolt face cartridges in long action magazines. You can do it.

 

[pmclaine]

'Cause 30-06 killed just about everything it encountered in the 20th Century.

 

[FjallJager]

I would have a Blaser R8, like I do and enough barrels and bolt faces to make it work.

 

[b6graham]

Short Action:
Good for training
Good for comps
Lots of options for hunting
Sherman/SAUM cases plenty for NF/etc elr field matches to be more than competitive just look at the results
All feed reliably with good 10+ round magazines and stocks and chassis and accessories are everywhere
Cons:180s at 2900+ (give or take bullet and caliber) is max energy

Long action:
300prc or 300wm or 7rm or 280ai for energy
Cons:
Mags limited in selection and size. They're massive in 10 rounds. Not gonna feed small stuff
Feeding smaller comp cases sucks (someone maybe some day will make a kit for running comp cartridges. But when you see a 10 round long sctikn AICS mag you'll shit and realize that's dumb. Single stack single feed sucks)
Anything not long action won't be fun

 

[357Max]

I've gone back & fourth on this. Since I'm a Gemini I just settled on 3 x long, 3 x short, & 1 x medium.

But seriously if I had to give up all but 1, I think the 25 Sherman Short Tactical would be it! Capable of 3300 with the 131 Blackjack @ .335ish G7 BC. It'll Hunt anything in North America, recoil is manageable, true short action COAL 2.860, good mag choices, & There are more good .25 cal bullets in the pipeline (Berger). I know there was at least 1 of them at the Niteforce ELR this year, maybe more.

 

[b6graham]

Since when is a true short action 2.860? 2.955 give or take in any custom action.

Only poor (or the very very fortunate) people use R700s

 

[pmclaine]

Since when is a true short action 2.860? 2.955 give or take in any custom action.

Only poor (or the very very fortunate) people use R700s

Blasphemy!

R700 for short action because the USMC has been using it to kill shit since 1966............

Custom actions to make up for small penis syndrome.

 

[SN13]

I went with a TL3 LA for exactly what you're talking about.

Yes compromises.

I will have all of my parts for my build by tomorrow and be putting it together.

I'll let you know how it feeds 6.5CM out of the single stack mags.

 

[BullGear]

Life is too short to be arguing over things like this. They both should respect each other's position and go out and buy a few of each, just to experience the other's argument.

 

[XLR308]

Life is too short to be arguing over things like this. They both should respect each other's position and go out and buy a few of each, just to experience the other's argument.

Couldn't agree more, that's why I have multiples of each.
I still need a true short action though for 68spc and wildcat variants or 65G and variants.

 

[357Max]

Since when is a true short action 2.860? 2.955 give or take in any custom action.

Only poor (or the very very fortunate) people use R700s

My point was the SST's were designed to run 3300 @ 2.860 with some room to grow COAL as more .25 pills become available. Unlike the std SAUM's that are more mag restricted in a short action with the high BC pills.
There's another thread on here somewhere with a very similar new cartridge .257 Blackjack
My SST is in an ARC Nucleus 1.1 SA. The ARC mags allow 2.955 as you stated.

Pic clipped from Sherman web sight.

 

[Supersubes]

Give me your best "screw short action, Long action all the way" argument. If you were on the defense of the long action what would your case be?

These days it’s a crappy argument to make. No sense making it imo.

 

[hereinaz]

Morally, I can't defend long action.

Buy a Sherman Short mag and be done.

 

[reich10]

These days it’s a crappy argument to make. No sense making it imo.

Morally, I can't defend long action.

Buy a Sherman Short mag and be done.

So there’s just no argument for long action at all? The defense rests? That’s weak. Why do they even make them anymore?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

It’s called an AI AXMC, PSR, AXSR, or ASR. My only precision rifle at this point is a AI PSR and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

 

[Totoro]

K.I.S.S...

LA with 0.532BF, 300WM throated for 215 Hybrid, sprinkle of H1000 and lite it off your choice of primer, FGMM or CCI.

No man or beast within reasonable accurate shooting range that would not suffer sudden hydraulic failure on impact.

However, variety is the spice of life...

 

[chevy_man]

I have a long action 22-250 that feeds just fine.


You can't put a 30-06 in a short, but you sure can run a 308 in a long.

 

[b6graham]

So there’s just no argument for long action at all? The defense rests? That’s weak. Why do they even make them anymore?

They make them for long action cartridges. Small round counts. Hunting energy.

The Sherman options (and even plain SAUM/PRC) have made the long action unnecessary for a lot of people though. Interchangeable bolt heads from Zermatt are cheap. and you can use the same action and chassis/stock

You can run short action cartridges from a long action. But its a lot more of a compromise than shooting the short action magnuns when you need a little more range or energy

@357Max don't worry I'm very familiar with the Sherman cases. The SST and SS are quite impressive from either 2.85 or 2.95 respectively and have really changed what a lot of people are building now for hunting rifles and the ELR/PRS hybrid field matches

 

[hereinaz]

So there’s just no argument for long action at all? The defense rests? That’s weak. Why do they even make them anymore?

Hahahaha, nope, can't defend them. The short action is morally superior. Sure, lawyers can twist the truth and mount a defense, but why?

The whole premise of these "if you could blah blah blah" questions, IMO, is silly anyhow. Parsing down scenarios and "what ifs" to the minutia.

Bottom line is that I can do everything needed with a short action, and better than a long action for OP stated purposes. My short mag is more efficient than all comparable long action mags. The one short action can run .223 to 7 SSmag flawlessly. Swap barrel, bolt and mags and I am up and running. No one is beating me and no animal is getting a pass because I needed something in a long action.

 

[DairyDictator]

If you're looking for ELR applications a long action is warranted because you can run all the short action stuff in a long action with minor hiccups, but anything inside 1200 can easily be done with any of the 6mm or 6.5mm cartriges in a short action

 

[Steel head]

This is the classic compromise argument.
Which category are you will to compromise on the most?
Smaller cartridges and magazines or ELR.
I’d choose the one that fits the majority of my shooting.

I’m at the moment kinda compromising my majority shooting with a short action.
Last 5-6 times I went shooting I started a a bit past a mile and worked out to 1.7 miles.
Thankfully 7 mm Midget stripper magnum is pretty capable but I’d be better served with a long Action with lapua boltface at this point.

 

[longshooter]

Because 300 Win Mag is the best, and it uses a long action.

 

[hereinaz]

The scenario for one rifle is a little ridiculous when you go from PRS where people run 6br to limited ELR where people run .338 lapua based stuff... but, you could technically pull the bolt and load any cartridge length for ELR as long as you have the bolt face available..

If you compromise something is gonna suck at one or the other. That's what compromise means, you get to pick stuff that sucks a little for everything or a lot for one extreme.

The total amount of suck is there, just depends on how you divide up the suck.

No one is really satisfied with the "one gun" anyhow. That's why these are always hypothetical questions.

 

[SN13]

@Steelhead

Can I ask a serious question?

.338 Lapua is 116gr case capacity. (Lapua Bolt Face)
.338 RUM is 113gr case capacity. (Magnum Bolt face)
.338 Edge is 122gr case capacity. (Magnum Bolt Face)

I know geometries etc can affect usable energy from capacity but it would appear that there are viable handloading options to get .338 Lapua performance from a standard magnum bolt face?

 

[Steel head]

@Steelhead

Can I ask a serious question?

.338 Lapua is 116gr case capacity. (Lapua Bolt Face)
.338 RUM is 113gr case capacity. (Magnum Bolt face)
.338 Edge is 122gr case capacity. (Magnum Bolt Face)

I know geometries etc can affect usable energy from capacity but it would appear that there are viable handloading options to get .338 Lapua performance from a standard magnum bolt face?

Except I wouldn’t be going 338 lapua
I’d be going 33 or 37XC.

 

[DairyDictator]

Or just do what the marines are doing and pick up a Barret MRAD kit with .308, 300 Norma, and 338 Norma load outs and be done with it

 

[SN13]

Except I wouldn’t be going 338 lapua
I’d be going 33 or 37XC.

Ahh yes, I just looked those up.

I mean the max 137.5gr capacity is nice upgrade over the .338 LM's 116gr.

It would appear that you'd need a LONG long action to load the 33xc or 37xc as the cases are much longer than the .338LM and "even longer than the cheytac"


4.4" OAL on the Cheytac?... Longer case on the 33xc So you'd be single-loading right?