So I found a range that's only a few hours away from me that goes out to a mile. The range provides a spotter to call the shots. Thinking about doing it with my 6.5 creedmoor. It calls for about 92 MOA. My question is I only have about 48 MOA in my turret and then the vertical cross hair goes to 20 MOA which still leaves about 24 MOA. The scope is a Vortex Viper PST II 5-25 and its on a 20 MOA rail. Any suggestions how I can squeeze out some extra MOA to be able to make this shot?
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Making a Mile Long Shot
- Thread starter sport10990
- Start date
You could go with a adjustable base like cold shot or Ivey or a Charlie from tachomhq. Or if your scope is second focal plane just dial back the power to half way and double your hold overs
FWIW to dial back your power you will have to verify where your true halfway point is where your hold overs truly double. A story pole works well for this
FWIW to dial back your power you will have to verify where your true halfway point is where your hold overs truly double. A story pole works well for this
I think for the mile range you need to pick up something other then the 6.5cm. Pray you have no wind and a really good spotter. Not saying don't try, but I think bringing that distance in to 1200-1300 would be much less frustrating and enjoyable. Still not easy if you haven't done it before, especially if there is wind. Not saying it can't be done, but you really need something with a little more ass for 1 mile. Seen guys shoot boxes of 6.5 140s and not connect one time at a mile. Always fun to give it a shot though. I personally don't like wasting the ammo with the 6.5 at longer distance when there are other options available.
When I started ELR, I stacked a 20 moa AR15 riser between the rings and existing rail to get more travel out of the scope. It's a cheap and reversible way to get started. There are 30 moa AR10 risers out there as well.
Whatever is under your zero stop is available to put into the base.
EGW makes inexpensive bases up to 40 moa for some guns.
If you want even to use even more base, the EBR2 reticle also has hash marks above the center you can set up your 100 yard zero on.
After that, open up the field of view with less magnification to use more of the reticle below the center.
6.5CM will work fine for trying out ELR at a mile if you can get enough travel out of the scope and understand the basics. Your firing solution sounds close, so you're on the right track. It'll introduce you to the game and it's challenges. The bullet will be deep into the transonic, so you'll be able to start getting past the legend and lore of that while the impacts are still close enough to see.
No, hits aren't guaranteed, but what you do with your ammo is your business. For me, missing at a mile is a lot more entertaining than shooting 100 yard groups on a public range.
Hi,
My suggestion would be to get a 1 piece base/ring type setup so that you are not "stacking" tolerances compared to separate base and ring setup.
ELR shooting is about putting more of the error budget (Amount of mistakes that can be made and still be on target) onto the shooters mistakes and putting less of the error budget into equipment mistakes.
We the shooter are going to make enough mistakes on our own and we need all the error budget we can get in order to be successful. Trying to account for equipment errors due to stacking tolerances will drive a person crazy.
Sincerely,
Theis
My suggestion would be to get a 1 piece base/ring type setup so that you are not "stacking" tolerances compared to separate base and ring setup.
ELR shooting is about putting more of the error budget (Amount of mistakes that can be made and still be on target) onto the shooters mistakes and putting less of the error budget into equipment mistakes.
We the shooter are going to make enough mistakes on our own and we need all the error budget we can get in order to be successful. Trying to account for equipment errors due to stacking tolerances will drive a person crazy.
Sincerely,
Theis
With this setup and your scope you will lose your 100 yard zero.
Assuming you have a FFP:
Zoom out enough to use your reticle to pick an aiming index for the missing drop. Make sure that you leave a bit in your scope for fine tuning. In other words find a 60 minute aiming point above the center of your target that you can easily index later with your scope.
Your reticle has at least 36+ minutes below the horizontal and 24+ above that you can use to find the 60min index point above the target. That should allow you to dial the remainder, then center up on the 60moa index/aming point and use the horizontal subtensions for wind.
It is old school but it has work'd well for years..
If you have SPF zoom out and double your holds..
PS: don't f'up the rest of your shooting by getting something wacky for a target your going to chase once in a while. Learn to use the tools you have is my vote.. Or get the proper gear and cartridge.
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Hi,
Best comment in this thread.....Guess we should ask.....How often do you see yourself at the 1 mile range in comparison to the other distances you normally shoot?
Sincerely,
Theis
Thanks everyone. All these suggestions help. Talking with the range, they've had a ton of guys do it with 6.5 CM and they say the spotter is one of the best and can call wind like nobody else. Of course, this is just probably a one time thing to try out just for giggles and probably wont change my whole set up. I'll let ya'll know if it works!
As of now, my range goes out to 800 yards and the steel plate is a human sized silhouette. I am also hitting it with my WW2 rifles, although not the same consistency. Before you make the mile shot, the range warms you up on the 1000 yard target so itll be fun either way cause I'll have the opportunity to do that as well.
That mile shot was my goal and I ran out of room at 3/4 of a mile on both my rifle scopes. At that distance the creedmoor was out of juice and just kind of all over the place. I have a 338 lapua that rang steel 3 of five at that distance. I had alot of fun and frustration that day.
Not so much....
Either of the reticles for that scope have 20 moa marked above the center, and the Burris rings are configurable in 5 moa increments. The SFP scope has 70 moa of travel, 20 above and below is 40, giving 110 and he needs less than 95. He has 20 in the existing base, 48 in travel now, so another 20ish from the rings tops him out in the travel, 40ish from the rings puts him at the top of the reticle at 100 yards.
He'll be able to zero at 100 using his reticle and still be on the reticle at a mile, which is better than aiming off on to the horizon.
This is the solution that will teach him the most about what he needs to buy next time if this takes hold. It's also one of the cheapest.
It doesn't actually work well, which is why better solutions were developed. Dialing down a 24x to turn 20 moa into 45 will have him using 11X for a mile. Self spotting will be gone as will any real calibration of the reticle.
If he does't want to leave the gun that way, the rings are configurable to give him any combination of remaining travel and reticle position he wants.
lmao. Famous last words
once you shoot at a mile your going to be hooked. My vote is it won’t be a one time thing, it will be the first but not the last.
What bullet are you shooting and how fast? Quick run on a free calc on my phone puts a 140 eld at like 2625 fps to a mile based on 92 moa to get there. Might try finding a load with more velocity and/or a higher bc bullet depending on what you are running. I've shot my 6.5x47 out to a mile with pretty good success. The video was with my AIAX in 6.5x47 running a 140 at 2810 and i was able to dial all of my elevation on a NF ATACR 5-25.
Apparently some of this blew over your head.
Crushing the Erector to the absolute bottom for your normal every day shooting is a bad idea at best.. I have first hand experience with some pSTII not zeroing with 20 on the rail and 20 on the rings. Their total elevation is round 70.. sure you have a bit of gravity and SOB at 100 but generally not enough.
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Most pst’s will be bottomed out with a 30-35 moa. You can run a 40 if you zero near or at the top of your reticle.
I’m running a viper pa and a 35 min rail. I have 66 min up
I’m running a viper pa and a 35 min rail. I have 66 min up
Huh. I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there.
I took an "intro to precision" class back in December (Mike Sexton, Clinton, SC). Having never shot past 300 before that day, was able to ring a 24x36 at 1 Mile on the 3-4th shot to get the windage right.
Savage FCP-SR WITH STOCK BARREL, STOCK TRIGGER
MDT chassis
XTR-II 5-25x
Hornady 140gr ELD-M over RL-17
And I wasn't the only one hitting a mile wit 6.5CM that day.
Im not going to discourage you like some of the others. Ive shot with a couple buddies out to 1883yds. One buddy was shooting 230s put of his 300win, doing great and making hits on a sandstone face. The aim point was a dinner plate sized depression in the sandstone. The other buddy was using a 260rem with 123gr lapua scenars. He was making very consistent hits inside the depression. I was messing with the 338 norma without issues.
I believe all he had was a 20moa rail and a nf, I dont remember if it was an nsx or atacr. But I believe it was 2nd fp.
Xdeano
I believe all he had was a 20moa rail and a nf, I dont remember if it was an nsx or atacr. But I believe it was 2nd fp.
Xdeano
If it works well for you then great. But not what I use or personally recommend. Different strokes I guess. Good shooting though.
I do think the OP should give it a go at least, regardless. It for sure won't be the last time, I can tell you that.
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We hold monthly 2000 yard matches and spotting misses is going to be the difference between getting a lot of hits and being frustrated.
If the backstop is open ground most any round will work.
If the backstop is covered with shrubs and dense foliage bring a howitzer.
It sounds like you have a good spotter and a well shot on range so you should have no problems.
I will also second the Burris rings as a cheap solution to getting you there.
If the backstop is open ground most any round will work.
If the backstop is covered with shrubs and dense foliage bring a howitzer.
It sounds like you have a good spotter and a well shot on range so you should have no problems.
I will also second the Burris rings as a cheap solution to getting you there.
Hi,
I did too at first but then realized it was something he was just going to try because he has a facility that says he can.
Sincerely,
Theis
I did too at first but then realized it was something he was just going to try because he has a facility that says he can.
Sincerely,
Theis
^ To expand on that - because it seems that a couple people aren't sure what slamming the erector to bottom or maybe shooting just a bit high, like 6moa at 100, is a bad idea..
The GenII PST (going from one I have on a 22LR) has roughly 20mils of total travel or 34.5 from the optical center for dialing of elevation. So if the OP cranked the erector all the way to the bottom, he is still a bit short with the -40MOA rail/combo. Assuming his rifle shoots perfectly straight, he'd loose (actual gain back) about 3.5 MOA to SOB and gravity, making it almost work.. So on paper, a guy might not see this as being an issue, maybe it isn't, on a single purpose rifle were you'll be dialed off the bottom and not use except for ELR.
Ruining the erector at the extreme does things that aren't desirable for most of us. It is away from the optical center, in some cases causes a darker less round sight picture for the majority of our shooting, creates *hold "unders" and mechanically great for the erector springs.
This is the same issue for any low travel benchrest scope and many high magnification "tactical" offerings for use in ELR. Unfortunately, the OP's situation is where a lot of shooters find themselves, when they chase magnification first.
*as an example a +6minute POI at 100 cause hold unders until you get to 450y with my 6.5. - remember you will not be able to use your elevation until past 450y (using my 6.5 data).
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Diver
I think the OP has a range available to him and after reading about it here he just wants to give it a go
It doesn't sound like he is dialing from 100 to one mile just 1000 and one mile.
The rings cost about $85 on eBay and he can use them for anything from -45 to +45 moa or sell them if they are not needed.
I think the packaging says you can get 55 moa if you can change the ring spacing but don't quote me on that.
Using hold off never seems to work that good for myself
I think the OP has a range available to him and after reading about it here he just wants to give it a go
It doesn't sound like he is dialing from 100 to one mile just 1000 and one mile.
The rings cost about $85 on eBay and he can use them for anything from -45 to +45 moa or sell them if they are not needed.
I think the packaging says you can get 55 moa if you can change the ring spacing but don't quote me on that.
Using hold off never seems to work that good for myself
Lynn,
No doubt your having less success with hold overs or scaling as you primarily use duplex style reticles. Not sure how anyone would or could with the wrong style of reticle. Of course, everything including this method, is a compromise.
I am with you on the low cost option but there is a way most of us did it with great results and still do occasionally. I think Litz's team won a ELR challenge last year or the year before using the same idea..
Best part it is free and you can shoot all the other targets as you normally would.
I recommended it in post #8; The key is to have a good well scaled index point.
Here is the OPs reticle illustrating using scaling.
Use anything you can create a fine index point..
Indexing on the target - you'll have over 3 seconds to drop into the target an see your impact
The only places this doesn't work is if you set your target to be sky lined.. or some how completely featureless.
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Yeah I had to put a T-post above our gong with a red party plate on it so my father could use his 6 Dasher at 2054 yards.
He was using a Nightforce Benchrest model with very little elevation and needed 121 moa.
I hope the OP gives it a try!!!
He was using a Nightforce Benchrest model with very little elevation and needed 121 moa.
I hope the OP gives it a try!!!
Would you care to share this place? Unless it's private and invitation only, of course. That might put it within a manageable distance from me.
Thanks.
I didn't know they went out to a mile. That is nice to know and close enough to be practical. Thanks. Do you happen to know if they allow .338LM?
Here some people are saying the 6.5CM doesnt have enough ass for 1mile and here i want to do it with a 6.5 Grendel. LoL!
Took her to 1300 already, but hits were tough to call.
Took her to 1300 already, but hits were tough to call.
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