Malinois vs Czech Shepherd

[FUNCTIONAL]

Ive owned german and czech shepards for pretty much my entire life... even as a kid my parents would have at least 2 at a time. I know what im in for with them and what it takes to keep them trained (not LEO level but obeying good basic commands and having good control over them).

For a couple years ive been moving around and without a GS and with getting hitched soon im looking to bring that level of protection back into my house. Ive been intrigued by the Malinois but don't know anyone who has one I could be around to get a feel for them. From everything I've read and heard it seems like a GS just on speed.

I figured theres probably a good amount of you in LEO/Mil who have the experience training/owning/ working with both and Id really value your first hand experiences with their differences.

what would I be seeing owning a Mal vs a GS?...specifically a Czech Shepherd (found the czechs to be more intelligent and obedient)

 

[Maggot]

There was a thread on this subject a couple months ago. You should look it up.

 

[DavidK]

I have trained both. While not all dogs will match the generalization, Malinois are like a GS on speed. They tend to be hyper and need to be kept busy. I have seen some pace their kennels for hours on end. I strongly suggest staying with Shep as they make better house dogs.

 

[Marksman10x]

Just something to think about....

Even though you have the time to dedicate to a high-energy dog right now, a family can radically change that. Think five years down the road, will you still have time to fulfill the dog's needs?

Personally, I wouldn't buy a Mal unless I needed their traits for a true working dog. They're bread to work all day and will become destructive and frustrated living a sedentary life. I think you are better off finding a GS with a family oriented temperament.

Just some things to think about. Obviously I don't know all the facts of your situation. Good Luck in your search.

 

[Robjohn315]

We have a Mal and he is great but they require alot of time. Now that our kids are older and we have more time it works for us but as others have mentioned...seeing that you are about to start a family stay with the GS.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I train police k9's and personal protection K9s, and also compete as handler and decoy in a couple sports. I have 1 of both and have owned multiple of both. Although my rare case is the opposite, my GSD is higher drive than my mal, it is typically the opposite. You would be well served by a working line GSD. Malinois typically have a more annoying level of drive, even in down time. It is not a rule, but it is a generalization. If you are wanting one, my male has a litter on the ground right now. He and the bitch are both solid black imports. The whole litter is black. 12 weeks old at the moment. If youre interested, go to www.bullocksk9kennels.com and contact Mike, and tell him youre interested in Major's litter. the pups are beautiful and solid nerved. The father is a true 1%er that loves to fight but is very very social. Social enough to be let loose in a 1st grade class room. Loves kids. Through observation and testing of the litter, they seem to be a little bit less drive than he was at that age. If you have any questions, hit me up on FB. My name is David Baker

 

[BLKWLFK9]

[No message]

 

[Maggot]

David, are the photos of a Mal? Looks much like my black phase wolf cub, Cloud. Ive been looking for another black one to mate with her when she's old enough.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

No. Those pictures are of my GSD male.

 

[MtnCreek]

"and with getting hitched soon"

The first year could/might put a lot of stress on being newly married. Make sure the wife to be knows what to expect from raising a high drive gsd pup. Better yet, get the pup before getting married and see how she reacts when some of her shit gets chewed up. It may save you in the long run.

 

[Va_Gentleman]

Haus Brezel Shepherds... Toni is bringing some new blood into her GSDs, some from the Eastern Bloc's. But for value and quality, our family cannot be happier. Track, Herd and Protect traits are strong and great family dogs...

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Thanks for the input guys. My wife in training has been around my GSDs for about 5 years (sisters close friend before i started dating her) so she knows what she is in for and is up for putting in as much time as I would training/bonding.

based off the responses seeming to mirror what I've read elsewhere Im going to stick to a GSD. I don't need nor have the time to dedicate to a dog with that high of a drive. Seems its pot luck selecting a Mal while the GSDs tend to follow the path of their parents more.

that's a beautiful GSD BLKWLFK9 . Ive always had a hard on for the dark shepards...especially ones with a red undercoat. My sister will be breeding her GSD with red undercoat from the Vom amwolf line and I'm told I get pick of the litter if I want so I think that will be my path.

 

[Jas Kopfer]

I’ve read all of the responses to this and some I get and some I disagree with. I’m a K9 handler and I’ve worked with German Shepherd, Czech Shepherd and Belgian Malinois breeds. The Czech Shepard is very different from a German Shepherd. They are amazing dogs but as with a Malinois they are very much working dogs and typically need a handler/owner that understands how to train and maintain those toes of dogs. A Czech or Malinois improperly trained, stimulated and cared are often exhibit hyper unruly behavior which odd often confused for working drive as opposed to what it is which is anxiety based behavior. They can develop severe and often times dangerous behavior issues. I typically do not recommend either dog to prospective dog owners that do not already have good experience with them. Unfortunately both breeds are purchased by people with no experience or knowledge of the two breeds to be household pets. This results in a very high number of Malinois and Czech shepherds ending up in shelters and rescue facilities before they ever turn a year old because people get them without understanding what they are getting into and they can’t deal with their behavior.

I currently have a 4yo Czech that is an amazing Air Scent SAR K9 and a 1 yo Malinois who will train for HRD (human remains detection). Both are amazing with kids, family and friends but there has been a lot of constant training time that have gone into and continue going into both.

The bottom line is if you do not or are not an experience owner/trainer of these two breeds I would definitely not recommend then.

 

[mosin46]

agree with above. esp last sentence. with any dog that does "bite work",you need knowledgeable and experienced help. i was lucky to have same. have been around with and taken bites from both. mals are super high energy and czechs very high energy IMHO. the "german" GSDs i have been around were not exactly lethargic. i had rottweilers and needed to train 4-5x a week with great help to get where i wanted to be. have seen most working breeds up close and some were very trustworthy around little kids,some,not so much. they're all dogs but all with individual personalities. good luck finding the fit you need.

 

[Pharmseller]

Were you a K9 handler five and a half years ago?




P

 

[mosin46]

no,was in schutzund back in the late 80s

 

[wvfarrier]

The problem I found training malinois is they dont have an "off" switch. They will literallyrun themselves into the ground

 

[buffalowinter]

My Czech Shepherd. He was a rescue. The Czech shepherd is bigger, heavier, and has a greater bite force than a Malinois. Unless you are jumping out of an airplane, rappelling down a mountain side, or carrying the dog across hot sand, the Czech Shepherd is an ideal dog. The Malinois is in great favor with the military because he is smaller and lighter than a shepherd with almost the same bite force. The Czech shepherd is a great family dog and just wants to be with you 24 hrs a day. They tend to mature later. Ours is around 2 yrs old now and is still a giant puppy that weighs 100 pounds.

 

[hesco]

experienced, handler, decoy here. the melon heads work to please themself, the German shepherds work to please the handler.

 

[NoDopes]

I wonder how many companies and universities are using forums like this to train and experiment with their chat-bots.
Version 2.0, still long winded but with odd grammer mistakes thrown in to seem real. Still not buying it.

 

[Pharmseller]

no,was in schutzund back in the late 80s

Copy.

Be advised I was responding to the guy who resurrected a 5 1/2 year old thread.




P

 

[XikoPlavi]

I wonder how many companies and universities are using forums like this to train and experiment with their chat-bots.
Version 2.0, still long winded but with odd grammer mistakes thrown in to seem real. Still not buying it.

Plenty im sure. AI bots are all the rage these days The new BING one would go nuts with this forum.

 

[TexPatriot]

My Czech Shepherd. He was a rescue. The Czech shepherd is bigger, heavier, and has a greater bite force than a Malinois. Unless you are jumping out of an airplane, rappelling down a mountain side, or carrying the dog across hot sand, the Czech Shepherd is an ideal dog. The Malinois is in great favor with the military because he is smaller and lighter than a shepherd with almost the same bite force. The Czech shepherd is a great family dog and just wants to be with you 24 hrs a day. They tend to mature later. Ours is around 2 yrs old now and is still a giant puppy that weighs 100 pounds.View attachment 8078541

View attachment 8078540

View attachment 8078539

That one laying flat on the floor witht the harness is thinking she needs to go out again.

You may not need a German Shepherd or just a good protective dog all the time but when you do need one they are a Godsend.

 

[buffalowinter]

That one laying flat on the floor witht the harness is thinking she needs to go out again.

You may not need a German Shepherd or just a good protective dog all the time but when you do need one they are a Godsend.

That's Zip my rescue Australian Cattle dog. He was about 116 years old in people years in that pic and passed away shortly after.

 

[TexPatriot]

That's Zip my rescue Australian Cattle dog. He was about 116 years old in people years in that pic and passed away shortly after.
View attachment 8079300

Good looking pup.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Hmm so Czech are better than The Germans in dogs too? I though it was just in guns… good to know

 

[Pok]

I have a mal that does SAR work. These dogs do not make good pets. I do not recommend.

I love my dog, and he's a great worker, but he's higher maintenance than any dog I have ever had. He's 5 now and manageable, but the time spent getting here was torture. I'll never get another. My family both loves and hates him at the same time, and it took a long time for the love part to kick in.

 

[stefan73]

I have a mal that does SAR work. These dogs do not make good pets. I do not recommend.

I love my dog, and he's a great worker, but he's higher maintenance than any dog I have ever had. He's 5 now and manageable, but the time spent getting here was torture. I'll never get another. My family both loves and hates him at the same time, and it took a long time for the love part to kick in.

That sounds like my Catahoula, he goes nonstop. Absolutely love my Catahoula. Best exercise I used to give my dogs was in Alaska when I would dog sled almost every night. This picture is when Texas and Louisiana had the "big freeze", I broke out the dog sled and sledded in Louisiana. My other kiddo has bad hip dysplasia so I can't run him anymore. Not enough snow but the ice was enough to allow me to sled.

 

[buffalowinter]

That sounds like my Catahoula, he goes nonstop. Absolutely love my Catahoula. Best exercise I used to give my dogs was in Alaska when I would dog sled almost every night. This picture is when Texas and Louisiana had the "big freeze", I broke out the dog sled and sledded in Louisiana. My other kiddo has bad hip dysplasia so I can't run him anymore. Not enough snow but the ice was enough to allow me to sled. View attachment 8081110

Step up your sledding game with the cat challenge.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

wow. Necro thread brought back from the dead by someone's first post.

Just so everyone knows, there is no such thing as a Czech Sheppard. There are german sheppards that are of Czech breeding, but its still a german sheppard. Yes, typically GSD's that were bred from certain areas differ from the next, including the Czech line, but it is still the same breed. DDR german sheppards (Deutsche Demokratische Republik from Eastern Germany) look different than western germany show line (what you picture as your sterotypical GSD). Czech bred GSD's typically are heavier boned and have a blocky head. The same goes with Mailinois'. I can look at a malinois and tell you if he came from mostly Dutch decent or French decent. The dutch's KNPV (name of their national dog sport) have much wider chests, taller, heavier boned and wider head b/c a long time ago, the dutch started to introduce Dane and american pitbull into their programs to give them those physical traits they have today. The dutch were famous for throwing in all kinds of shit into their breeding programs and not disclosing it (still doing it today). Hell, my malinois was obviously mixed with god knows what way back when up in his pedigree. There are no less than 4 blank spots up the line on his BRN (dutch acronym for a listed family tree for every breeding where you can see a dogs lineage. This was Django. He was a 85lb malinois with a ginormous head and bit like a fucking bull shark.

The french only really cared about French and Mondio Ring sport and their malinois' are a more fair boned and lighter weight dog with a more pointy face.

For example: Meet Duco II. Duco is long dead and gone but is probably the most famous KNPV stud in the world. Breeders long having Duco II lines in their breeding program b/c of his physical attributes and was a bad mother fucker. Notice his appearance.

Now this next dog is your typical French Ring malinois

Don't get me started on Dutch Sheppards. The dutch wanted their "own dog" and created the dutch sheppard which is nothing but a tiger striped Malinois. You can have dutchies and Mals in the same litter.. Which is which?? They're the same. There are no genetic differences between the 2 minus their coat color.

If you have listened to my podcasts on owning working dogs, you are well aware that i am not a proponent for people to get a working lined dog as a pet. They are an investment of money, time, tears, and frustration. Not to mention the inherent risk of liability in owning one.

 

[mosin46]

yes i know the breed and "nickname" are different. all are GSDs. you know your mals FS. ring way different from schutzhund. i actually knew,i believe,the first mal in FL in about 90+/- i'd say. brought in by a german guy who probably placed every LA dog in FL. at the time. dog was a true bad ass. i worked him some and had to sit all the time in the guys house. i stand up and it's curtains for me. his 4 yo little girl could do anything to that dog,no prob. i have old film of the dog tied off,me agitating him and the little girl at his side leaves it walks up to me,swats me and walks back to the dog while he's going nuts. never changed his behavior towards me or the kid. however,guys are right. mal isn't a great "pet". the owner was the most instinctive,knowledgeable,skilled dog guy i ever knew,including a couple of german pros. the girl was raised around bad dogs and a great trainer so she knew how to act towards them

 

[kindabitey]

I'll be honest, I got extremely luck with my Mal. She's been great, and is an obnoxious asshole only 80% of the day. The rest of the time she's sleeping.
She's definitely French as she's smaller (40 lbs) and has a general "fuck off, peasant" attitude.

 

[babyguppy]

There was a thread on this subject a couple months ago. You should look it up.

no link for the lazies??

 

[babyguppy]

That's Zip my rescue Australian Cattle dog. He was about 116 years old in people years in that pic and passed away shortly after.
View attachment 8079300

damn fine looking blue healer fyi
only thing more beautiful then a BLUE healer is a RED healer

 

[Potsy]

We had a 3/4 Mal 1/4 GSD from ‘07-‘19 when she died.
She settled down after a few years and was a wonderful pet, but we were definitely “overdogged” for the first few years.
Lola loved people, loved kids and was protective of them, but she was VERY alpha with other dogs and would not suffer a cat to live. She was pretty good at the whole “fuck off, peasant” attitude as well, when the mood hit her.
My wife and I miss that dog terribly, she was one of the family, but we’re not looking for another Mal.

 

[TexPatriot]

I have a mal that does SAR work. These dogs do not make good pets. I do not recommend.

I love my dog, and he's a great worker, but he's higher maintenance than any dog I have ever had. He's 5 now and manageable, but the time spent getting here was torture. I'll never get another. My family both loves and hates him at the same time, and it took a long time for the love part to kick in.

There was a gun store near here with a mal in the backyard. It was always in constant motion, running the fence like it was stir crazy. The poor thing needed Ritalin or some ass to chew..

 

[stefan73]

wow. Necro thread brought back from the dead by someone's first post.

Just so everyone knows, there is no such thing as a Czech Sheppard. There are german sheppards that are of Czech breeding, but its still a german sheppard. Yes, typically GSD's that were bred from certain areas differ from the next, including the Czech line, but it is still the same breed. DDR german sheppards (Deutsche Demokratische Republik from Eastern Germany) look different than western germany show line (what you picture as your sterotypical GSD). Czech bred GSD's typically are heavier boned and have a blocky head. The same goes with Mailinois'. I can look at a malinois and tell you if he came from mostly Dutch decent or French decent. The dutch's KNPV (name of their national dog sport) have much wider chests, taller, heavier boned and wider head b/c a long time ago, the dutch started to introduce Dane and american pitbull into their programs to give them those physical traits they have today. The dutch were famous for throwing in all kinds of shit into their breeding programs and not disclosing it (still doing it today). Hell, my malinois was obviously mixed with god knows what way back when up in his pedigree. There are no less than 4 blank spots up the line on his BRN (dutch acronym for a listed family tree for every breeding where you can see a dogs lineage. This was Django. He was a 85lb malinois with a ginormous head and bit like a fucking bull shark.
View attachment 8081160
View attachment 8081161View attachment 8081162


The french only really cared about French and Mondio Ring sport and their malinois' are a more fair boned and lighter weight dog with a more pointy face.

For example: Meet Duco II. Duco is long dead and gone but is probably the most famous KNPV stud in the world. Breeders long having Duco II lines in their breeding program b/c of his physical attributes and was a bad mother fucker. Notice his appearance.

View attachment 8081146
View attachment 8081150

Now this next dog is your typical French Ring malinois

View attachment 8081147



Don't get me started on Dutch Sheppards. The dutch wanted their "own dog" and created the dutch sheppard which is nothing but a tiger striped Malinois. You can have dutchies and Mals in the same litter.. Which is which?? They're the same. There are no genetic differences between the 2 minus their coat color.

If you have listened to my podcasts on owning working dogs, you are well aware that i am not a proponent for people to get a working lined dog as a pet. They are an investment of money, time, tears, and frustration. Not to mention the inherent risk of liability in owning one.

Didn't know that about the Dutch Shepards. We fostered an awesome Dutch Shepard but I couldn't keep her because of work requirements which had me traveling a lot and the wife and kids couldn't manage her appropriately.

 

[kindabitey]

Owning a Mal or Dutchie is 80% praise, 10% "what the fuck is wrong with you", and 10% " Bitch, I'll bite you back, dig your microchip out and leave you on the side of the road"

 

[stefan73]

I will say I love Mals. Had great experiences with them in Afghanistan. the handlers would let me throw balls for them to help keep them exercised.

 

[remmynikon.308]

That sounds like my Catahoula, he goes nonstop. Absolutely love my Catahoula. Best exercise I used to give my dogs was in Alaska when I would dog sled almost every night. This picture is when Texas and Louisiana had the "big freeze", I broke out the dog sled and sledded in Louisiana. My other kiddo has bad hip dysplasia so I can't run him anymore. Not enough snow but the ice was enough to allow me to sled. View attachment 8081110

I've got a Catahoula as well, seriously makes me want no other breed as long as I live. Crazy ass goofy dogs!

 

[fpgt72]

Our agency will not do Mal's. they are just a bit too crazy. While I am not in on that decision one of the handlers said they are just too crazy.

I hate saying all this and all those. But there are traits in dogs. Know a guy that "adopted" a retired dog, went through all the hoops to get one. It did not end well for anyone including the dog. It was a MWD not a "police" dog.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Our agency will not do Mal's. they are just a bit too crazy. While I am not in on that decision one of the handlers said they are just too crazy.

I hate saying all this and all those. But there are traits in dogs. Know a guy that "adopted" a retired dog, went through all the hoops to get one. It did not end well for anyone including the dog. It was a MWD not a "police" dog.

If you knew how the acquisition process is in the military, you wouldnt want one either. That is the case except for tier 1 units. They acquire their dogs completely different.

 

[fpgt72]

If you knew how the acquisition process is in the military, you wouldnt want one either. That is the case except for tier 1 units. They acquire their dogs completely different.

All I know is what I have read, I read the book about Cairo, another about a female handler.....sorry I can't remember the titles but somewhere in there they go into a little on how the dogs are trained. I know ours come out of europe, but past that I don't know. We currently have three, up from two. They are always busy.

 

[ajwarrior]

I have 2 Mals. A now 3 year old intact male I purchased when he was 10 weeks old and a 7 year old spayed female rescue I adopted a year and a half ago. The female is calm but will play if you play with her. Otherwise she likes to chillout. The male is like a toddler with ADHD. He's a lunatic that has to stay by my side. I wouldn't trade them for the world most of the time... but there are those moments where I would give them to you. All in all you have to insist they listen and obey with positive reinforcement. Most of the time all they really want to do is please you - their alpha. If they don't listen, be the alpha, be loud and get their attention. You just have to think like a dog. I have mine trained to the point it's a lot of hand signal communication now. Here's the males 3rd birthday (2/12/23) picture. Yep, sat there with the hat on and smiled. Now come to the house and ring the doorbell there will be no smiling on his end.

 

[TexPatriot]

wow. Necro thread brought back from the dead by someone's first post.

Just so everyone knows, there is no such thing as a Czech Sheppard. There are german sheppards that are of Czech breeding, but its still a german sheppard. Yes, typically GSD's that were bred from certain areas differ from the next, including the Czech line, but it is still the same breed. DDR german sheppards (Deutsche Demokratische Republik from Eastern Germany) look different than western germany show line (what you picture as your sterotypical GSD). Czech bred GSD's typically are heavier boned and have a blocky head. The same goes with Mailinois'. I can look at a malinois and tell you if he came from mostly Dutch decent or French decent. The dutch's KNPV (name of their national dog sport) have much wider chests, taller, heavier boned and wider head b/c a long time ago, the dutch started to introduce Dane and american pitbull into their programs to give them those physical traits they have today. The dutch were famous for throwing in all kinds of shit into their breeding programs and not disclosing it (still doing it today). Hell, my malinois was obviously mixed with god knows what way back when up in his pedigree. There are no less than 4 blank spots up the line on his BRN (dutch acronym for a listed family tree for every breeding where you can see a dogs lineage. This was Django. He was a 85lb malinois with a ginormous head and bit like a fucking bull shark.
View attachment 8081160
View attachment 8081161View attachment 8081162


The french only really cared about French and Mondio Ring sport and their malinois' are a more fair boned and lighter weight dog with a more pointy face.

For example: Meet Duco II. Duco is long dead and gone but is probably the most famous KNPV stud in the world. Breeders long having Duco II lines in their breeding program b/c of his physical attributes and was a bad mother fucker. Notice his appearance.

View attachment 8081146
View attachment 8081150

Now this next dog is your typical French Ring malinois

View attachment 8081147



Don't get me started on Dutch Sheppards. The dutch wanted their "own dog" and created the dutch sheppard which is nothing but a tiger striped Malinois. You can have dutchies and Mals in the same litter.. Which is which?? They're the same. There are no genetic differences between the 2 minus their coat color.

If you have listened to my podcasts on owning working dogs, you are well aware that i am not a proponent for people to get a working lined dog as a pet. They are an investment of money, time, tears, and frustration. Not to mention the inherent risk of liability in owning one.

I thoucht Dutchs were longer haired and predominantly black. Or was that Belgian.

When we lived in Ft. Lewis and my dad was deployed in the early 60's we had a female German Shepherd that served as the gaurd dog. She saved me more than once but my mom had to place her because she was too protective of me and was afraid of being sued.

We were playing football in a neighbor's yard, Sugar was sitting on the sidelines watching and as soon as the neighbor ran to tackle me Sugar came off the sideline like a shot and bit the fuck out of that kid, shredding his pants leg, all right in front of his mother. That mother was a super nice lady, otherwise that could have been bad. She also went after a teenage thug that chased me home and prevented me from getting the shit beat out of me.

There was a stretch of street that she did not allow bicycles to pass in front of the house on and caused more than one bike wreck.

 

[stefan73]

I thoucht Dutchs were longer haired and predominantly black. Or was that Belgian.

When we lived in Ft. Lewis and my dad was deployed in the early 60's we had a female German Shepherd that served as the gaurd dog. She saved me more than once but my mom had to place her because she was too protective of me and was afraid of being sued.

We were playing football in a neighbor's yard, Sugar was sitting on the sidelines watching and as soon as the neighbor ran to tackle me Sugar came off the sideline like a shot and bit the fuck out of that kid, shredding his pants leg, all right in front of his mother. That mother was a super nice lady, otherwise that could have been bad. She also went after a teenage thug that chased me home and prevented me from getting the shit beat out of me.

There was a stretch of street that she did not allow bicycles to pass in front of the house on and caused more than one bike wreck.

The Dutch I fostered was a shorter hair, brindle dog. I wanted to keep her but work got in the way. Belgians are also shorter haired.

 

[XikoPlavi]

If your getting dogs (especially working dogs) from europe. You would know all about the FCI and thier breeding standards. All of my Dobermans from the last 20 years are from serbia.

And yeah id say you better know what you’re doing to own a Malinois.

Ive had a couple dobes that I did shutzhund with. One of them 2 went to the level 3

That dog was mean to but it never hurt anyone in my family. I had to be super responsible with him

 

[TexPatriot]

If your getting dogs (especially working dogs) from europe. You would know all about the FCI and thier breeding standards. All of my Dobermans from the last 20 years are from serbia.

And yeah id say you better know what you’re doing to own a Malinois.

Ive had a couple dobes that I did shutzhund with. One of them 2 went to the level 3

That dog was mean to but it never hurt anyone in my family. I had to be super responsible with him

I always liked dobies. Kind of eerie personalties but a woman I knew had a male and female that were super smart.

The male was twice as big as the female and they would play rough, borderline fighting, constantly. They played up against my leg and i got nipped once. I think it was on purpose.

 

[XikoPlavi]

I always liked dobies. Kind of eerie personalties but a woman I knew had a male and female that were super smart.

The male was twice as big as the female and they would play rough, borderline fighting, constantly. They played up against my leg and i got nipped once. I think it was on purpose.

Haha they do like pinch! The one I got now is a wuss and wouldn’t hurt much of anything. Plus he does annoying shit just to piss us off. Im not getting any more animals once hes gone

 

[TexPatriot]

Haha they do like pinch! The one I got now is a wuss and wouldn’t hurt much of anything. Plus he does annoying shit just to piss us off. Im not getting any more animals once hes gone

Thats exactly what is was, a pinch, and I think they were both in on it because they made an effort to play right up on me.