Rifle Competition Events Mammoth 2022

[ChidJ]

Just realized the other day that we only have 3 months until everyone's favorite annual walkathon. Time to get amped up and start rucking again.

Who's going?

Last year I came in dead last of those that finished. It was my first precision rifle match ever. But I've have been going all over the country this year competing and trying to improve my shooting so this year will be a metric of sorts for me to gauge improvement.

I don't have any tips or anything but one resource I found earlier this year that may help some folks with loadouts is this website https://lighterpack.com/ you can sort customize it to show you where you might could cut some weight and what types of stuff you may be bringing too much of. Here's my list so far, subject to change https://lighterpack.com/r/r07vt4

 

[RogueTanker]

I used that as well in 2020. I'll be back again this year, hopefully with an even lighter pack. I was at 42lbs last time. this time, hoping to be under 40lbs. Thinking of running my 223 ackley in place of a larger caliber since 90% of are less than 600 yards.

 

[gasrat]

Last year I came in dead last of those that finished.

And yet here you are again giving it another go and not letting that finish last year get at you....Wish you the best this go around.... Get it ole son!!!!

 

[ChidJ]

@RogueTanker that's a fair idea for weight savings. I would only hesitate a little as the most heavily weighted stages were the longest and that little 223 made those stages tough, for me at least. That said, I know some guys are tough enough to run 60 and 70 lb packs but my joints just can't get used to that much weight on top of all the lard I usually pack around so the prospect of cutting 2 lbs just by switching caliber is appealing.

I could have saved a lot of weight in guns as well but those are the guns I've trained with all year so that's what I'm gonna run

 

[agr490]

Weight savings I have found useful.
packs vary tons. the more you spend the less they weigh. There is a fine line. But to put into perspective my kifaru is 3 pounds less than my elberlystock and they are the same volume
Look at kifaru, exo mountain and stone glacier … not cheap but they are all top of the line.

don’t double up on any pouches or bags for gear you don’t need. Use the pockets on your pack and ditch kestrel pouches or anything else that doubles up nylon. It all adds up

an over looked area is food packaging. Meals like mountain house or similar can be repackaged in ziplock and use a hyperlite cooking pouch. That can easily cut a pound or more.
aluminum case 9mm ammo.. saves another 1/2 pound.
Look at gear from the hunting world. Serious sheep hunters know how to save every pound they can.
good look. And kick ass for going back. See you there.

 

[ChidJ]

Dang, just a couple of SnipersHide denizens going this year? There's gotta be more of y'all.

 

[RogueTanker]

@RogueTanker that's a fair idea for weight savings. I would only hesitate a little as the most heavily weighted stages were the longest and that little 223 made those stages tough, for me at least. That said, I know some guys are tough enough to run 60 and 70 lb packs but my joints just can't get used to that much weight on top of all the lard I usually pack around so the prospect of cutting 2 lbs just by switching caliber is appealing.

I could have saved a lot of weight in guns as well but those are the guns I've trained with all year so that's what I'm gonna run

After strong internal debates, I've decided on a 19" 6creed. Light and fast enough to buck what little wind there is out there.

I'm not in as good as shape as some of the competition, so weight is always a factor. It's three days. I can live without a lot. If it snows or rains like 19, I'll pack a bit heavier. If I can get away without it within reason, I will.

I'll probably splurge on furys and a tripod this year though.

 

[ChidJ]

You never know about the wind around here. Normally it is negligible but this past weekend the wind kicked my butt. steady 8-10mph full value at some of the stages.

@RogueTanker What's some stuff you cut out? I cut clothing and upgraded to some lighter weight kit but gained a lot of weight in the guns

I'm also now firmly in the camp of always bring a tripod

 

[RogueTanker]

You never know about the wind around here. Normally it is negligible but this past weekend the wind kicked my butt. steady 8-10mph full value at some of the stages.

@RogueTanker What's some stuff you cut out? I cut clothing and upgraded to some lighter weight kit but gained a lot of weight in the guns

I'm also now firmly in the camp of always bring a tripod

I shoot out west where there is a constant 10mph wind or so it. I feel like my wind calling is decent enough. I also typically shoot a dasher with 115s at 2850, which the creed can match at that barrel length. so it's a wash with the wind to me.

When i look at the match, I prioritize the following in this order: Making the ruck (overall weight, comfort of pack and feet care), sleep (can't focus or make time if I can tired from no sleep), rifle capabilities (80% of shots are within in 600 yards. a 223 is competitive at those ranges.)

Making the ruck- a good pack is critical. it can make or break you. it can make 70lbs feel like 50lbs or vice versa. So I splurged with a 70L heavy duty pack. Good socks and boots (not waterproof ones either)

Sleep- High quality down filled compressible sleeping bag will save you weight. also using a Nemo dagger around 3lbs which we can split between two people. using your clothes for a pillow or a small camp pillow under 2oz.

Rifle- AG composite stock, short barrel with a medium profile, MK5 Scope with a arca rail, cyke pod and TBAC Dominus (worth the weight). Should come in around 10-11lbs.

Where I cut weight- Don't need 15 pairs of underwear or extra pairs of pants. no camelback, just a Nalgene. I vacuum pack all my mountain house food and use olive oil to add calories (super dense cal to weight ratio). I don't bring a kestrel as all my dope is written down with different DA's. I use AL cased 9mm for weight savings, carbon fiber tripod. for my pistol I use a serpa holster (might switch this due to safety) with a belt paddle. mags go in my pocket if i need to reload. as mentioned above, down filled sleeping bag, lightweight tent and a solid, but lighter pack.

 

[ChidJ]

FYSA they will be providing water bottles at every stage again this year like they did last year so if you want to save weight and not bring a water container, you could

 

[RogueTanker]

FYSA they will be providing water bottles at every stage again this year like they did last year so if you want to save weight and not bring a water container, you could

I missed last year. Do they provide water jugs too? I like my Nalgene because i can easily mix my electrolytes in it and chug it. I am a heavy sweater so for me, the cooler the weather, the better.

 

[ChidJ]

It was just giant cases of bottled water. Pallets of them. You could take as many or as few as you wanted. They were everywhere. I never had a point where I was thirsty

 

[Gentleman4561]

I assume this match is full? I use to be part of the crew that ran it back in the Joe/Rockcastle days, was just thinking I aught to go shoot it sometime.

 

[RogueTanker]

Well, then I might drop my nalgene if they provide bottles.

and yes, this match sold out in something like 4 hours this year. the waitlist is long i'm sure too.

 

[Lunar95]

I didn't get a partner for this year sadly but I got a guy who said he would be down for next year.

https://lighterpack.com/r/rlkw5i

Honestly I'm not sure where else I could cut significant weight. My rifle/ammo/shooting gear is 26lbs alone the rest is only 19. I got a few odd items like the small mirror. The amount of gnats I get in my eyes is absolutely staggering, on our training exercises even if I'm only out 4-6 hrs ill have 1 or 2 every time. And I cant really spare the can, I have a tikka with a chopped down barrel to about 20in, so my FPS is ass, plus after a recent issues with my CB30 my break is mounted with about a 45 degree cant and I haven't fixed it, so for FPS and recoil purposes ill keep the can.
I'm debating dropping my issued gortex and getting something like the stone glacier m5, would save about half a pound. Also a Git-Lite game changer but that would only save a few oz's for the 120 bucks it would cost.

I think my SAR experience has me looking very pessimistically about the shit that could happen so im carrying extra stuff "just in case". Id be interested to see what others are bringing.


Oh well got a year to figure it out I guess...

 

[RogueTanker]

I didn't get a partner for this year sadly but I got a guy who said he would be down for next year.

https://lighterpack.com/r/rlkw5i

Honestly I'm not sure where else I could cut significant weight. My rifle/ammo/shooting gear is 26lbs alone the rest is only 19. I got a few odd items like the small mirror. The amount of gnats I get in my eyes is absolutely staggering, on our training exercises even if I'm only out 4-6 hrs ill have 1 or 2 every time. And I cant really spare the can, I have a tikka with a chopped down barrel to about 20in, so my FPS is ass, plus after a recent issues with my CB30 my break is mounted with about a 45 degree cant and I haven't fixed it, so for FPS and recoil purposes ill keep the can.
I'm debating dropping my issued gortex and getting something like the stone glacier m5, would save about half a pound. Also a Git-Lite game changer but that would only save a few oz's for the 120 bucks it would cost.

I think my SAR experience has me looking very pessimistically about the shit that could happen so im carrying extra stuff "just in case". Id be interested to see what others are bringing.


Oh well got a year to figure it out I guess...

Ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain. overall the packing isn't terrible, but cut everything you can. it's three days and your life doesn't hinge on a survival mirror. the small cuts here and there add up. you can lose a lb or three with the right rifle setup. the get lite will help. shoot a lighter caliber (6mm or 223) will help reduce ammo weight...

It all adds up. everyone is different. I got my ass kicked rucking against guys with a 70lb ruck with a 20lb 300prc. Weight is person dependent and as such decide what you want, what you need and what you can compromise on.

My goal is 40lbs. that means a lot of doing without. Unless the targets were radically different last year or will be this year, I didn't feel like other than one stage a tripod was even necessary. so I will make cuts as I get closer to my goal weight.

 

[ChidJ]

In last year's thread, someone offered me a bit of advice that I didn't take but I am taking this year. If you want to score well, sacrificing your back for a little heavier gun may help. This year I'm sure the stages will all be different but, as an example, on the Ovals stage of last year, if you shot well on that stage alone and zero'd on every other stage in the match, you'd be mid pack. There were enough points on that stage that had anyone in the top 5 done fantastic, it would have taken them from not 1st to first. So while most stages are 250-500 yards, on that one where max score was achieved by getting hits on small ovals at 900, a heavier gun might've turned the tides. Maybe not but this year, I'm not leaving that up to chance.

If you are just trying to make it, disregard all of that haha

 

[NGCSUGrad09]

You have to plan around your goals for the event:
- Are you preparing to win?
- Are you preparing to do well?
- Are you preparing to survive?

The answer to the above will determine amount of effort and most likely price tag involved in attending the event.

 

[DoNotReply]

You have to plan around your goals for the event:
- Are you preparing to win?
- Are you preparing to do well?
- Are you preparing to survive?

The answer to the above will determine amount of effort and most likely price tag involved in attending the event.

This is spot on for a mindset starting point.

If you are serious about participating in an event like this then you really need to have a good idea on what you are trying to accomplish. And you can adjust this decision as your goals change.

I'm just starting out with a serious competition mindset for this next year, but adjust for what I'm doing. Some matches I'm going into it to winning mindset. Others, like Mammoth or Vortex SC, I want to get started and do well, knowing I did my best in a couple of key areas.

 

[ChidJ]

So what do y'all think about the map they've come out with this year? I think the rucks may be a bit longer in total. Not sure how you manage to get 5 stages in 10 miles if you have to go to Range 17 at any point. What do y'all think? We gonna be doing 15 mile days instead of 10?


Edit: Maybe false alarm. I did some measuring and map analysis and if they can squish enough stages into the southwest corner of base for a whole day to where you don't see see Range road for a day, it may work out to make 10 miles a day ish. I'm not sure how. There's certainly a ruck route but only 3 ranges I know of

 

[JustSendit]

Interesting, hadn’t considered we could be doing more than 10 a day. It’ll be interesting for sure, Chris finds ways to get the perfect mileage per day. Definitely excited for this year, not doing a lot differently. Picked up a better tent from hyper lite and a sleeping pad from Nemo. Hoping for a ruck weight circa 50lbs, even 55 would be ok considering between ammo and food I’ll drop some weight by the last day.

Last year I was surprised about the amount of known distance we shot. Wonder if they’ll continue to give ranges as much, this year. Lastly hoping not to shoot oval targets while the sun is in my eyes!

 

[ChidJ]

@JustSendit You've got a good chance at it. IIRC didn't you take second or third last year? I don't think @NGCSUGrad09 is running it this year so hey, you've at least got that going for you haha. I will say though that the Ovals had the potential to change everything for almost any team in the top 10 IIRC. The scoring on that one was a bit unbalanced.

What round counts y'all carrying? I'm thinking of going a bit conservative. 130 rifle, 64 pistol

 

[JustSendit]

@JustSendit You've got a good chance at it. IIRC didn't you take second or third last year? I don't think @NGCSUGrad09 is running it this year so hey, you've at least got that going for you haha. I will say though that the Ovals had the potential to change everything for almost any team in the top 10 IIRC. The scoring on that one was a bit unbalanced.

What round counts y'all carrying? I'm thinking of going a bit conservative. 130 rifle, 64 pistol

Hah yeah we ended up just behind @NGCSUGrad09! Seems to be often the case we’re e somewhere behind he and his partner! Awesome shooting with them, definitely a formidable team.

Yeah ovals was a big one last year! One team really dialed it in and killed it. Last year I made some mental mistakes, i shot the red white blue orange stage out of order… what boneheaded move there. There’s a few more mental errors luckily my partner was absolutely lights out, he really crushed his part of each stage.

Yeah I’ll probably bring 130-150, knowing whatever I don’t use at mammoth I’ll use for vortex! I am 100% an over packer of ammo. So 130-150 and 70 9mm.

 

[5RWill]

I just realized this was a thing. I'll see you all in 4 years after residency , but my God if I can get some time I want to go so bad. It'll be tongue and cheek but watching the international sniper competition at 18 is the type of precision rifle shooting that got me extremely interested in the sport 12 years ago. Seeing matches like this, vortex's, snipers' unknown, etc. gain popularity is reassuring.

Someone get some good footage I love watching it. Will definitely have to train up for it when I do attempt it. I go to the gym regularly but stamina based cardio is not my forte. One of my best friends here is very much of the same mindset and wants to go.

 

[ChidJ]

They had camera crews out last year for the whole thing but nothing ever came of it, it seems

 

[Unhealthy Bromance]

They had camera crews out last year for the whole thing but nothing ever came of it, it seems

The first installment of 4 short videos just released today via Mammoth/GS folks.

 

[ChidJ]

Making last minute packing choices. Save weight and go with RF Monocular or get more FOV with the RF Binocular?

 

[JustSendit]

Making last minute packing choices. Save weight and go with RF Monocular or get more FOV with the RF Binocular?

Personally, RF binos is what I’m going to bring. I can attach mine, using the RRS setup, to my tripod to be a stable spotting scope. Binos have the advantage of being able to scan for targets with more clarity, for those hidden targets. I know with the monocular you’ll see a “little of a lot” and can miss targets by scanning right over them.

But if your ruck weight is approaching that line, binos might get dropped to stay lighter for the movements. I think it’s important to pick that ruck weight, ideally a weight you approach or train with, and fight that plan. Otherwise the movement’s will be a challenge.

All that being said, generally, targets were not hidden and were a lot of known distance last year. I don’t remember using them much at Mammoth. Vortex however, they’re a requirement in my opinion.

 

[ChidJ]

Yeah, I double checked my match notes from last Mammoth. None of the targets besides bonus targets were difficult to find. Totally different story for those targets out at Coleman's Creek. Gray, small, and hidden in bushes haha.

That said, from what I can gather via some analysis, at least 1 whole day should be all unfamiliar ranges as compared to last year and those new ranges SHOULD be in more "wild" locations than the old 300m zero ranges (I don't know for certain).

The weight discrepancy between my Vortex Ranger RF and Sig Kilo RF is a pound and a half. FOV on my scope at 6x is similar to the FOV in my binos at 10x which makes it feel like there is a bit of redundancy in bringing the binos when the scope is almost as good for spotting purposes.

I dunno. Still feel torn. How much performance do I gain by having the binos vs not having a pound and a half on my back for 3 days? My pack is already lighter than last year and I made the rucks easily. But how much fatigue does that lb and a half equal over that 3 days. Maybe inconsequential but I've spent a lot of time and effort to cut lbs and half lbs elsewhere.

 

[TACC]

The first installment of 4 short videos just released today via Mammoth/GS folks.

Any links for this?

 

[NGCSUGrad09]

Yeah, I double checked my match notes from last Mammoth. None of the targets besides bonus targets were difficult to find. Totally different story for those targets out at Coleman's Creek. Gray, small, and hidden in bushes haha.

That said, from what I can gather via some analysis, at least 1 whole day should be all unfamiliar ranges as compared to last year and those new ranges SHOULD be in more "wild" locations than the old 300m zero ranges (I don't know for certain).

The weight discrepancy between my Vortex Ranger RF and Sig Kilo RF is a pound and a half. FOV on my scope at 6x is similar to the FOV in my binos at 10x which makes it feel like there is a bit of redundancy in bringing the binos when the scope is almost as good for spotting purposes.

I dunno. Still feel torn. How much performance do I gain by having the binos vs not having a pound and a half on my back for 3 days? My pack is already lighter than last year and I made the rucks easily. But how much fatigue does that lb and a half equal over that 3 days. Maybe inconsequential but I've spent a lot of time and effort to cut lbs and half lbs elsewhere.

If you're already lighter than last year, I'd think about bringing binos. Low power monoculars suck for rapid target identification and ranging. Using just the rifle is also difficult and slow because you need to set it up or try to hold it while scanning. Mammoth is a 4 minute stage game, so every second matters. Even if you don't range, the binos will provide the advantages of a little more magnification and both eyes working, as well as portability.

 

[NGCSUGrad09]

For those getting ready, here are 10 Tips to help prepare for Mammoth.

10 Tips to Help Prepare for the Mammoth Sniper Challenge -

Here are 10 tips to help prepare for the Mammoth Sniper Challenge from a prior winner of the event.

practicalsharpshooter.com

 

[higginsworksforme]

How do you get an invitation?

 

[ChidJ]

How do you get an invitation?

I'm not why it always says that on the website after registration closes. It's not a "by invitation only" match. You just have to be ready when it opens up. Sells out quick

2 weeks to go. Probably time to start training

 

[ChidJ]

Here we go! See y'all in the morning

 

[502Chevelle]

Anybody heard how the match is going. I know the temps here in NC have dropped pretty hard. Hope everyone brought their woolies.

 

[never_summer]

74 stepped off, 57 remain

 

[lush_dawg]

74 stepped off, 57 remain

Any word on todays step off?

 

[never_summer]

Any word on todays step off?

53 made it to day three but I don’t know how many completed the final ruck. Final ruck this year was 7 miles

 

[502Chevelle]

Wondering about the odd number. I was thinking it is a team event.

 

[lush_dawg]

Wondering about the odd number. I was thinking it is a team event.

It is…that would be the number of teams remain

 

[never_summer]

Results are posted on Facebook, 50 teams made it

 

[AlphaThree]

Results are posted on Facebook, 50 teams made it

Are they anywhere else for those of us that don’t Facebook?

 

[Peter Laurvick]

Match results as posted on FB

 

[BLKWLFK9]

On my latest episode at the end, I called my shot. I said my buddies Andy Slade and Ben Fleenor were taking it to the house. Well 2nd is pretty damn strong. Andy is supposed to come down to NC and do an in-person podcast with me to talk about training, upcoming matches, and Mammoth. Should be an epic podcast.

 

[RogueTanker]

That was a tough match. Targets were small and Chris switched things up with the stages. Then the final ruck...... Glad I made it.

 

[teddy12b]

My buddy and I did Mammoth in 2020 and we missed the last ruck on day 2 by 15 seconds. That's eaten at us ever since and we just did the 2022 Mammoth. Two years ago most of the ranges were very short and relatively larger targets compared to 2022. We went into 2022 trying to game it a little and just take AR's in 223 so we had lighter ammo and could share between ourselves. We regretted that decision on most of the ranges. We really struggled this time around with finding the targets let alone hitting anything. Shooting wise we performed sub par on what we can do with rifles and if it wasn't for pistols we wouldn't have scored 10 points. We made it through day 2, but my partner had three toenails he was about to lose, back pain and a swollen knee. Our combined age is 97 years old so I'm proud that we made it as far as we did. Our goal was to cross the finish line, but when a knee that's had work done on it is swollen I'm good with calling it a day. The event is awesome, but it's not permanent injury for the rest of our lives awesome.

We stepped off the line and his ruck was in the high mid 30 pound range with everything and I was in the low mid 40 pound range. One thing that really helped us lighten up was a 10'x10' tarp used as a plow point tied off the the tree with a trekking pole propped up that gave us plenty of space for us and our gear. 1.5# solution for two guys.

Going forward, I'm struggling with the same issue any time I do a team match. I need an accurate, reasonably lightweight 308. I like the idea of the sig cross, but I haven't heard that it's PRS type match accurate. I like the idea of the christensen MPR, but I get nervous on carbon fiber barrels. We were on the same squad with a couple of guys using daniel defense delta 5's and the more I heard about those the more they peaked my interest. Those seem like a good compromise between accuracy, durability, and weight.

 

[RogueTanker]

Yeah, they switched it up alot this year. Much more challenging. little over half the stages had pistol, probably just so you could get some points (we had those stages where that was all we got).

some quick aar points-
1. Aluminum cased ammo was a great idea, saved a bit. I took 120 rounds and used 90 ish i believe
2. tripod- there was one stage you *had* to have one and another were it was highly advantageous. We didn't take one to save weight and that was a mistake.
3. don't run a suppressor. I couldn't see shit from those unstable positions. as nice as it was to not deal with the sound and blast, i won't do that again
4. Primary caliber- I really think that a short barrel 6 creed, 22GT or 22 creed are optimal for these matches. light (ish) ammo, flat shooting (for those unknown distances) and low recoil. there was a lot of unstable shots that it mattered on.
5. Laser range finders- i had my fury 5k's and I couldn't get good ranges with how small the targets were and how unstable I was holding or on a pack. definitely a tripod mounted LRF or (if anyone wants to donate one, I'll use it I promise) a weapon's mounted LRF would honestly be the best.
6. listen to the RO's- If they aren't calling the hits, you're doing something wrong. stop and figure it out. my partner left his gear behind and it took us too long to figure that out when I was hammering targets.

Those are the big ones. I had enough food, clothes (thank god it was relatively warm and dry) and ammo this year. I stepped off at 50lbs and ended at 43lbs. I really want to start next year at less than 45lbs. I'm going ultralight on my rifle (sub 11lbs) next time and also adding a tripod.