Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
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Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
You say nothing to a cop, ever. They are trained to use every word against you.
You don't have to take the 5th. It is your right to remain silent, so remain silent.
Hand them an ID and keep your mouth shut. This all from my best friend, a 33
year veteran officer. Who by the way can't stomach the young pukes in his dept.
either. Doesn't trust a one of them.
A 91 year old man heard someone breaking into his garden shed. He called the
cops. They said no one could respond for 20 minutes. He hung up and called back in about 2 minutes stating he had gone out with a 38 and shot one and had the
other on the ground. The cops were there pronto. After arresting the two burglars
an officer came up to question the old man about lying to them. "Thought you
said you shot one", the old man replied, "thought you said it'd take you 20 minutes."
You say nothing to a cop, ever. They are trained to use every word against you.
You don't have to take the 5th. It is your right to remain silent, so remain silent.
Hand them an ID and keep your mouth shut. This all from my best friend, a 33
year veteran officer. Who by the way can't stomach the young pukes in his dept.
either. Doesn't trust a one of them.
A 91 year old man heard someone breaking into his garden shed. He called the
cops. They said no one could respond for 20 minutes. He hung up and called back in about 2 minutes stating he had gone out with a 38 and shot one and had the
other on the ground. The cops were there pronto. After arresting the two burglars
an officer came up to question the old man about lying to them. "Thought you
said you shot one", the old man replied, "thought you said it'd take you 20 minutes."
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: akmike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if a scumbag breaks into my house I shouldn't protect myself and my family?
</div></div>One officer's opinion means nothing. But the law makes different presumptions inside your home than outside on your property. </div></div>
I realize this is only this officer's opinion. I just fear there may be more officers that hold similar opinions these days.
I also realize that there may be a difference between inside the home and outside the home depending on state/local laws. Whether I'm inside my house or not, I still am concerned an officer of the law discounts my right to protect myself when I feel my safety/life is threatened. Just speaking as I were the individual in the article who was arrested for protecting his home.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: akmike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if a scumbag breaks into my house I shouldn't protect myself and my family?
</div></div>One officer's opinion means nothing. But the law makes different presumptions inside your home than outside on your property. </div></div>
I realize this is only this officer's opinion. I just fear there may be more officers that hold similar opinions these days.
I also realize that there may be a difference between inside the home and outside the home depending on state/local laws. Whether I'm inside my house or not, I still am concerned an officer of the law discounts my right to protect myself when I feel my safety/life is threatened. Just speaking as I were the individual in the article who was arrested for protecting his home.
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #FF0000">You say nothing to a cop, ever. They are trained to use every word against you. </span>
A 91 year old man heard someone breaking into his garden shed. He called the
cops. They said no one could respond for 20 minutes. He hung up and called back in about 2 minutes stating he had gone out with a 38 and shot one and had the
other on the ground. The cops were there pronto. After arresting the two burglars
an officer came up to question the old man about lying to them. "Thought you
said you shot one", the old man replied, "thought you said it'd take you 20 minutes." </div></div>
Sweet story, but in many localities, like the one in question, they would probrably cite the old guy for fileing a false police report.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #FF0000">You say nothing to a cop, ever. They are trained to use every word against you. </span>
A 91 year old man heard someone breaking into his garden shed. He called the
cops. They said no one could respond for 20 minutes. He hung up and called back in about 2 minutes stating he had gone out with a 38 and shot one and had the
other on the ground. The cops were there pronto. After arresting the two burglars
an officer came up to question the old man about lying to them. "Thought you
said you shot one", the old man replied, "thought you said it'd take you 20 minutes." </div></div>
Sweet story, but in many localities, like the one in question, they would probrably cite the old guy for fileing a false police report.
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
Why is is that no one ever goes after the prosecutors, judges, law makers, legislators and politicians? You know, the guys that make up these silly laws in the first place. The very people that you all vote into office.
As a cop, it isn't my job to pick and choose which laws I'm going to enforce. We look at the facts and go from there, then its up to the DA to prosecute. Of course we have discretion but that only goes so far.
Going after the cops is going to get most of you nowhere fast. Voice your concern where it will have the most impact. At the polls.
Why is is that no one ever goes after the prosecutors, judges, law makers, legislators and politicians? You know, the guys that make up these silly laws in the first place. The very people that you all vote into office.
As a cop, it isn't my job to pick and choose which laws I'm going to enforce. We look at the facts and go from there, then its up to the DA to prosecute. Of course we have discretion but that only goes so far.
Going after the cops is going to get most of you nowhere fast. Voice your concern where it will have the most impact. At the polls.
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
Very good point Slapchop. Are the officers the most visible "target" of criticism?
I have a lot of respect and admiration for law enforcement officers in general. It's probably not right to form an opinion from one article but the officer quoted in the article is the one I have issue with.
Very good point Slapchop. Are the officers the most visible "target" of criticism?
I have a lot of respect and admiration for law enforcement officers in general. It's probably not right to form an opinion from one article but the officer quoted in the article is the one I have issue with.
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is is that no one ever goes after the prosecutors, judges, law makers, legislators and politicians? You know, the guys that make up these silly laws in the first place. The very people that you all vote into office.
As a cop, it isn't my job to pick and choose which laws I'm going to enforce. We look at the facts and go from there, then its up to the DA to prosecute. Of course we have discretion but that only goes so far.
Going after the cops is going to get most of you nowhere fast. Voice your concern where it will have the most impact. At the polls.
</div></div>
Very good point Slapchop. Are the officers the most visible "target" of criticism?
I have a lot of respect and admiration for law enforcement officers in general. It's probably not right to form an opinion from one article but the officer quoted in the article is the one I have issue with. [/quote]
Like everything else, theres the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything in between.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is is that no one ever goes after the prosecutors, judges, law makers, legislators and politicians? You know, the guys that make up these silly laws in the first place. The very people that you all vote into office.
As a cop, it isn't my job to pick and choose which laws I'm going to enforce. We look at the facts and go from there, then its up to the DA to prosecute. Of course we have discretion but that only goes so far.
Going after the cops is going to get most of you nowhere fast. Voice your concern where it will have the most impact. At the polls.
</div></div>
Very good point Slapchop. Are the officers the most visible "target" of criticism?
I have a lot of respect and admiration for law enforcement officers in general. It's probably not right to form an opinion from one article but the officer quoted in the article is the one I have issue with. [/quote]
Like everything else, theres the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything in between.
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
I agree Slapchop. In many of my posts I stress that it comes down to the citizen to affect change.
My question to you is why can't the police join with the citizens to help bring the change about quicker? Why don't the police unions in NY petition Mayor Bloomberg to cease his antigun agenda? How much more powerful would the voices of the citizens be if they were amplified by the constabulary as well?
I agree Slapchop. In many of my posts I stress that it comes down to the citizen to affect change.
My question to you is why can't the police join with the citizens to help bring the change about quicker? Why don't the police unions in NY petition Mayor Bloomberg to cease his antigun agenda? How much more powerful would the voices of the citizens be if they were amplified by the constabulary as well?
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree Slapchop. In many of my posts I stress that it comes down to the citizen to affect change.
My question to you is why can't the police join with the citizens to help bring the change about quicker? Why don't the police unions in NY petition Mayor Bloomberg to cease his antigun agenda? How much more powerful would the voices of the citizens be if they were amplified by the constabulary as well? </div></div>
Who says that it doesn't already happen? Civil service unions regularly endorse elected officials who they think will better serve the citizens and the workers that they represent. I can't speak for anywhere else but judges, DA's and elected officials have been removed from office or transferred to lesser positions due to union outcry.
As far as Bloomberg's agenda goes, myself and the majority of people I work with think he is severely misguided in his anti gun crusade but at the same time you can't totally blame the guy when every other day you get a tragedy like this happening in some corner of the city.
You gotta keep in mind that a man with a gun in the Bronx or Brooklyn North isn't the same thing as a man with a gun in Casper, Wyoming or Bozeman, Montana.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree Slapchop. In many of my posts I stress that it comes down to the citizen to affect change.
My question to you is why can't the police join with the citizens to help bring the change about quicker? Why don't the police unions in NY petition Mayor Bloomberg to cease his antigun agenda? How much more powerful would the voices of the citizens be if they were amplified by the constabulary as well? </div></div>
Who says that it doesn't already happen? Civil service unions regularly endorse elected officials who they think will better serve the citizens and the workers that they represent. I can't speak for anywhere else but judges, DA's and elected officials have been removed from office or transferred to lesser positions due to union outcry.
As far as Bloomberg's agenda goes, myself and the majority of people I work with think he is severely misguided in his anti gun crusade but at the same time you can't totally blame the guy when every other day you get a tragedy like this happening in some corner of the city.
You gotta keep in mind that a man with a gun in the Bronx or Brooklyn North isn't the same thing as a man with a gun in Casper, Wyoming or Bozeman, Montana.
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why don't the police unions in NY petition Mayor Bloomberg to cease his antigun agenda? </div></div>
My guess: Because they're all BOUGHT AND PAID FOR!!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why don't the police unions in NY petition Mayor Bloomberg to cease his antigun agenda? </div></div>
My guess: Because they're all BOUGHT AND PAID FOR!!!!!
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You gotta keep in mind that a man with a gun in the Bronx or Brooklyn North isn't the same thing as a man with a gun in Casper, Wyoming or Bozeman, Montana. </div></div>
I was cracking up earlier reading this post and trying to imagine everyone in NYC packing. I think thats more scary than having them disarmed. If you've been there youd understand. I remember one night on the last Statton Island Ferry....As the man said, "The City" aint Texas
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You gotta keep in mind that a man with a gun in the Bronx or Brooklyn North isn't the same thing as a man with a gun in Casper, Wyoming or Bozeman, Montana. </div></div>
I was cracking up earlier reading this post and trying to imagine everyone in NYC packing. I think thats more scary than having them disarmed. If you've been there youd understand. I remember one night on the last Statton Island Ferry....As the man said, "The City" aint Texas
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree Slapchop. In many of my posts I stress that it comes down to the citizen to affect change.
My question to you is why can't the police join with the citizens to help bring the change about quicker? Why don't the police unions in NY petition Mayor Bloomberg to cease his antigun agenda? How much more powerful would the voices of the citizens be if they were amplified by the constabulary as well? </div></div>
Who says that it doesn't already happen? Civil service unions regularly endorse elected officials who they think will better serve the citizens and the workers that they represent.</div></div>
Respectfully, endorsement of candidates is more as result of the preceeding horse trading and favour/benefits granting than a 'who's the best guy'.
However, if you can point me to examples of where the civil unions pushed for candidates or laws that were 2ndA friendly I'd appreciate it because right now, I've not been able to find any.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can't speak for anywhere else but judges, DA's and elected officials have been removed from office or transferred to lesser positions due to union outcry.</div></div>
Have any of these actions been because of 2ndA issues? I recognize that unions have power, I'm interested in finding out if that power has ever been used to the benefit of the 2ndA.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as Bloomberg's agenda goes, myself and the majority of people I work with think he is severely misguided in his anti gun crusade but at the same time you can't totally blame the guy when every other day you get a tragedy like this happening in some corner of the city.</div></div>
Well, I guess we're at the nub of it then aren't we. On the one hand you and others you work with have a perspective that is at odds with the laws you're tasked to enforce or policies that your boss' boss is persuing. At the same time, 'you see his point' in regards to the density and type of population living in NY and how being armed could make that situation worse. Again, where does this leave us, the citizens? There are crazies in NY. I know this for a fact as I go to NYC about 2 or 3 times a week. But I also know that there are probably many times more normal people there who are at the mercy of the crazies because they don't have a means of defending themselves beyond fists and feet. And we've seen how well the authorities regarding self-defense with even the tools God gave us at birth.
At the end of the day, it boils down to the same thing, you either love and support the Constitution or you don't. You can't say 'oh it's great if you're in the Prairies but it's not really workable in the cities'. It's the job of the elected and the enforcers to make it work rather than to dilute, abuse and ignore it for the sake of 'public safety'.
I want end this post by saying thanks to Slapchop and Graham for engaging in this. I'm not attacking or blaming the big picture on either of you at a personal level. I fully agree that the society and laws we have are as a result of the actions or in-action of all of us. I just want to bring these issues out to the surface so at least we can think things through a little better.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree Slapchop. In many of my posts I stress that it comes down to the citizen to affect change.
My question to you is why can't the police join with the citizens to help bring the change about quicker? Why don't the police unions in NY petition Mayor Bloomberg to cease his antigun agenda? How much more powerful would the voices of the citizens be if they were amplified by the constabulary as well? </div></div>
Who says that it doesn't already happen? Civil service unions regularly endorse elected officials who they think will better serve the citizens and the workers that they represent.</div></div>
Respectfully, endorsement of candidates is more as result of the preceeding horse trading and favour/benefits granting than a 'who's the best guy'.
However, if you can point me to examples of where the civil unions pushed for candidates or laws that were 2ndA friendly I'd appreciate it because right now, I've not been able to find any.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can't speak for anywhere else but judges, DA's and elected officials have been removed from office or transferred to lesser positions due to union outcry.</div></div>
Have any of these actions been because of 2ndA issues? I recognize that unions have power, I'm interested in finding out if that power has ever been used to the benefit of the 2ndA.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as Bloomberg's agenda goes, myself and the majority of people I work with think he is severely misguided in his anti gun crusade but at the same time you can't totally blame the guy when every other day you get a tragedy like this happening in some corner of the city.</div></div>
Well, I guess we're at the nub of it then aren't we. On the one hand you and others you work with have a perspective that is at odds with the laws you're tasked to enforce or policies that your boss' boss is persuing. At the same time, 'you see his point' in regards to the density and type of population living in NY and how being armed could make that situation worse. Again, where does this leave us, the citizens? There are crazies in NY. I know this for a fact as I go to NYC about 2 or 3 times a week. But I also know that there are probably many times more normal people there who are at the mercy of the crazies because they don't have a means of defending themselves beyond fists and feet. And we've seen how well the authorities regarding self-defense with even the tools God gave us at birth.
At the end of the day, it boils down to the same thing, you either love and support the Constitution or you don't. You can't say 'oh it's great if you're in the Prairies but it's not really workable in the cities'. It's the job of the elected and the enforcers to make it work rather than to dilute, abuse and ignore it for the sake of 'public safety'.
I want end this post by saying thanks to Slapchop and Graham for engaging in this. I'm not attacking or blaming the big picture on either of you at a personal level. I fully agree that the society and laws we have are as a result of the actions or in-action of all of us. I just want to bring these issues out to the surface so at least we can think things through a little better.
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
You are all so politically correct you have forgotten the obvious. An assault on the
2nd is a treasonous act. If you want to change the second you do it politically. If
you use your public office to change it you are a traitor and have violated your
oath. Appeasers only make life better for themselves for a little while. Their children
and grandchildren pay the price.
You are all so politically correct you have forgotten the obvious. An assault on the
2nd is a treasonous act. If you want to change the second you do it politically. If
you use your public office to change it you are a traitor and have violated your
oath. Appeasers only make life better for themselves for a little while. Their children
and grandchildren pay the price.
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
Question for the people talking about "reasonable" or "excessive" force.
How do you suppose you would determine that? If you had to stop and think about it wouldn't it be too late? I would think a violent encounter would happen faster than you could ever decide what was "reasonable" or "excessive". Isn't that why we practice before encounters? So when it happens we don't think, just react.
Question for the people talking about "reasonable" or "excessive" force.
How do you suppose you would determine that? If you had to stop and think about it wouldn't it be too late? I would think a violent encounter would happen faster than you could ever decide what was "reasonable" or "excessive". Isn't that why we practice before encounters? So when it happens we don't think, just react.
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RidgeAve. Rifleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...How do you suppose you would determine that? If you had to stop and think about it wouldn't it be too late?</div></div>What is "reasonable" force gets determined after the fact, but it assumes the facts, circumstances, and knowledge you had available to you at the time.
You put your finger on the problem: The criminal always has the advantage. He has a mental advantage because he is not afraid to use a weapon illegally, and he has a physical advantage because it is he who initiates the conflict.
His act forces you to react and to decide when and how to legally respond in self-defense. Your reaction must at all times stay within the law, so you will have much to think about with no time to think about it.
That's why you must know the law <span style="text-decoration: underline">before</span> you arm yourself for a potential deadly force confrontation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RidgeAve. Rifleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...How do you suppose you would determine that? If you had to stop and think about it wouldn't it be too late?</div></div>What is "reasonable" force gets determined after the fact, but it assumes the facts, circumstances, and knowledge you had available to you at the time.
You put your finger on the problem: The criminal always has the advantage. He has a mental advantage because he is not afraid to use a weapon illegally, and he has a physical advantage because it is he who initiates the conflict.
His act forces you to react and to decide when and how to legally respond in self-defense. Your reaction must at all times stay within the law, so you will have much to think about with no time to think about it.
That's why you must know the law <span style="text-decoration: underline">before</span> you arm yourself for a potential deadly force confrontation.
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
As shown in my profile, I live in west TN. I just finished reading the laws concerning defense of property and I still am not sure if I would be legally justified in defending my property UNLESS bodily harm to myself or someone else at the residence was believed to be imminent. I would appreciate any comment that would help settle the silt of this legal jargon mudpuddle.
As shown in my profile, I live in west TN. I just finished reading the laws concerning defense of property and I still am not sure if I would be legally justified in defending my property UNLESS bodily harm to myself or someone else at the residence was believed to be imminent. I would appreciate any comment that would help settle the silt of this legal jargon mudpuddle.
Re: Man Facing Jail Time for Protecting His Property
No you should NOT HAVE TO know the laws as laws should be such that ones life, health AND property is holy and protected not just by LAWS but also by CONSTITUTION.
It is true that facts get researched after an incident and i also agree with reasonable force being applied* however in this case there were established facts which clearly show that perp was known offender and armed and STILL police will join in the witch-hunt against honest citizen.
Here in Europe in most parts one has to be directly threatened to be able to defend up to the point of equal force and with elements of escape attempt before self defense argument can be applied. LAW as is written gives all incentive to the criminal and puts honest citizens in sheep's clothes and i don't believe for a second that this is good for safety or written so by chance or random. It's INTENT and MALICE from the ruling class and there are no sane individuals who would respect such laws. As i can speak only for myself, safety of my family comes first and finding an intruder in my house there will be no discussion, no law thinking, deliberating or second guessing one of us will not walk out and whole world be damned.
edit:
*with that i'm thinking in regards of ordinary trespassers outside objects on property in general as i find it rather rude to be shooting people wandering onto your field or forest
.
No you should NOT HAVE TO know the laws as laws should be such that ones life, health AND property is holy and protected not just by LAWS but also by CONSTITUTION.
It is true that facts get researched after an incident and i also agree with reasonable force being applied* however in this case there were established facts which clearly show that perp was known offender and armed and STILL police will join in the witch-hunt against honest citizen.
Here in Europe in most parts one has to be directly threatened to be able to defend up to the point of equal force and with elements of escape attempt before self defense argument can be applied. LAW as is written gives all incentive to the criminal and puts honest citizens in sheep's clothes and i don't believe for a second that this is good for safety or written so by chance or random. It's INTENT and MALICE from the ruling class and there are no sane individuals who would respect such laws. As i can speak only for myself, safety of my family comes first and finding an intruder in my house there will be no discussion, no law thinking, deliberating or second guessing one of us will not walk out and whole world be damned.
edit:
*with that i'm thinking in regards of ordinary trespassers outside objects on property in general as i find it rather rude to be shooting people wandering onto your field or forest
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