MARC TAYLOR`S - SCOPE EVALUATION TESTS RESULTS

[RESTLESSNATIVES]

Listening to the podcasts with MARC TAYLOR and FRANK talking about THE ACTUAL ONGOING TEST RESULTS FROM STUDENTS ACTUAL SCOPES of various top of the line optics costing thousands and then the medium priced glass from $750 up to $1,500 , I think if most guys guys are honest that is the price bracket they can actually afford, how they fared shooting at distance .
Apart from say the NITGHFORCE SHV which you recommend in this price bracket where can we see the results of the scopes that were up to the task and the ones that were best left alone on the shelf , with a little note sent to the manufacturers saying , COULD DO BETTER GUYS KEEP TRYING AND TEST AND EVEN TEST SOME MORE BEFORE SENDING THEM OUT TO THE PUBLIC AND CALLING THEM "TACTICAL SCOPES FOR DEMANDING SITUATIONS " .
Or are they going to be kept under wraps as DOUBLE TOP SECRET or in case scope manufacturers have a hissy fit and takes legal action if say a certain scope brand`s model having several same model scopes all shit the bed , even when you have the truth in all your findings , and spit there dummy out and threaten legal action .
It would be great to see them .
Think it this way say JOE BLOGGS totally believes the manufacturers waffle about how good their scope is , its the dogs bollocks compared to brand "B" , and with magazine publications not entirely telling the truth about a product they are reviewing in case the manufacturer cuts advertising from their publication , who does JOE BLOGGS believe , same with certain YOUTUBE reviewers who charge $4.000 for a favourable review !!!!!!
But with MARC`s actual non biased findings on the range with tones of different brands and models of scopes now you can see for yourself , which ones in your budget were a winner in most of the criteria listings that you can afford .

 

[littlepod]

Athlon Ares ETR, all have tracked 100% from what I can recall. And find them used/new for $900-950.

 

[Baron23]

I generally don’t have the free time to listen to podcasts.

Do the say if this is data that they will publish...or not?

 

[littlepod]

I generally don’t have the free time to listen to podcasts.

Do the say if this is data that they will publish...or not?

I believe they won't.

 

[Lowlight]

We have tested over 100 scopes so far, at least that has been recorded in the book. I have tested some also that have not made it into his God Book,

That said, we might release the details, but we have over time put out what we have found

it's not hard to figure out what we are saying and which scopes we are talking about, we mention it every time we do a podcast together. If we come off a class and podcast, what we saw, we report.

Athlons have been the best budget scope overall, closely followed by Sig and their Tangos. We have seen small runs of others that do well, the Burris XTR series, also do very good.

Really it's the sub $1200 scopes that go hit or miss, most don't spend a lot on them, $750 to $1100 and those scopes average about .2 off at 10 Mils... so minor in the big picture. You can usually account for that, and the ones that are below that spec can be replaced.

At the end of the day, the Vortex is the most popular and the most prone to having an error, but they are also the most common scope we see. So you have to put in the numbers in context as well as the Models, saying we see errors in the $750 line does not mean those errors translate to the $2000 ones, hence why a lot of this has not been released, people are terrible with context

 

[RESTLESSNATIVES]

We have tested over 100 scopes so far, at least that has been recorded in the book. I have tested some also that have not made it into his God Book,

That said, we might release the details, but we have over time put out what we have found

it's not hard to figure out what we are saying and which scopes we are talking about, we mention it every time we do a podcast together. If we come off a class and podcast, what we saw, we report.

Athlons have been the best budget scope overall, closely followed by Sig and their Tangos. We have seen small runs of others that do well, the Burris XTR series, also do very good.

Really it's the sub $1200 scopes that go hit or miss, most don't spend a lot on them, $750 to $1100 and those scopes average about .2 off at 10 Mils... so minor in the big picture. You can usually account for that, and the ones that are below that spec can be replaced.

At the end of the day, the Vortex is the most popular and the most prone to having an error, but they are also the most common scope we see. So you have to put in the numbers in context as well as the Models, saying we see errors in the $750 line does not mean those errors translate to the $2000 ones, hence why a lot of this has not been released, people are terrible with context

Thanks for the reply its great that MARC keeps up his GOD BOOK to show us that not everything made is perfect for what it is intended for ,
and is it fit for purpose according to the manufacturers they are , but according to MARC`s GOD BOOK maybe not all of them , but getting close .
I see you are still not a fan of the IOR scopes with their SCHOTT GLASS in your cross country trip with MARC made me laugh but over here in the UK they are selling like hot cakes , remember looks are everything to a shooter and they look tough as nails but as your actual hands on knowledge says they are sometimes not as accurate tracking as you are told , BUT THEY HAVE SCHOTT GLASS !!!!!
Thanks and watch out for them BIG RIGS on the highway trying to kill you both , " knights of the road my arse" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

 

[GBMaryland]

Please dont let my old Premiers suck.... please dont let me old Premiers suck... please dont let my old premiers suck....

(GB wipes the sweat from his brow, and wispers nice things to his S&B ultra shorts...)

 

[Lowlight]

IOR Can suck a large dick...

More break than work, and glass is not the only metric to gauge a telescopic sight on

 

[accurate obsession]

At the end of the day, the Vortex is the most popular and the most prone to having an error, but they are also the most common scope we see. So you have to put in the numbers in context as well as the Models, saying we see errors in the $750 line does not mean those errors translate to the $2000 ones, hence why a lot of this has not been released, people are terrible with context

Vortex is a very popular line, no doubt, I have 5 and I’m happy with all. The Razors I expect to be top tier but I also have one Viper PST gen2 ffp. For me it’s been excellent it’s not mounted on a punishing rifle as far as recoil but the turrets get a workout. So how many of these have you seen and are they gtg or a pain? I ask because anytime I’m asked about scopes that fit most peoples budgets this is the one I recommend. I’ve not gotten any negative feedback about these scopes, just wondering what your experiences have been.

 

[Baron23]

I have a Viper PST Gen II 3-15 x 44 and did a tall target tracking test using the TargetsUSA fixture that my friend @GBMaryland was kind enough to lend me. Its a Mil EBR-2C....the older version as they are now selling -7C.....and so it was sold by Midway for a very good price (well, I thought it was)

Also, used the Hide tall targets that Box to Bench sells.

My Viper tracked dead nuts on up to 10 mils....I was very pleasantly surprised.

I cannot comment on robustness or reliability as I have only had it about a year. But it works well and was priced right to go on a Remington 5R set up to shoot deer.

Cheers

 

[Dobermann]

Not sure if it's been part of Marc's tests, but in a recent thread here on the Brownell's scopes, Frank mentioned that he keeps some SWFA 5-25s as loaners for classes for when students' optics fail ... that has to be worth something!

 

[flyfisher117]

Vortex is a very popular line, no doubt, I have 5 and I’m happy with all. The Razors I expect to be top tier but I also have one Viper PST gen2 ffp. For me it’s been excellent it’s not mounted on a punishing rifle as far as recoil but the turrets get a workout. So how many of these have you seen and are they gtg or a pain? I ask because anytime I’m asked about scopes that fit most peoples budgets this is the one I recommend. I’ve not gotten any negative feedback about these scopes, just wondering what your experiences have been.

Ive been wondering this too. I have the PSY Gen 2 on an RPR. I have never fealt held back but I also don't have the tools to test its tracking. Been trying to decide if its worth leaving on the RPR or upgrading scopes and shifting the Viper off onto my .223.

I see a lot of negative reviews aswell. Ive pressed a few of the people and its always been "well ive seen one fail" or "my buddy" or even "my buddy saw one fail". In all cases there's been very little substance to the claims.

I will say I say down one night while watching TV. I cranked my elevation turret up and down at random intervals and going all the way through my adjustment range more than a few times. Did this for 10-15 minutes straight. Next day it was still zeroed.

 

[littlepod]

Ive been wondering this too. I have the PSY Gen 2 on an RPR. I have never fealt held back but I also don't have the tools to test its tracking. Been trying to decide if its worth leaving on the RPR or upgrading scopes and shifting the Viper off onto my .223.

I see a lot of negative reviews aswell. Ive pressed a few of the people and its always been "well ive seen one fail" or "my buddy" or even "my buddy saw one fail". In all cases there's been very little substance to the claims.

I will say I say down one night while watching TV. I cranked my elevation turret up and down at random intervals and going all the way through my adjustment range more than a few times. Did this for 10-15 minutes straight. Next day it was still zeroed.

If it works don't worry about upgrading it. PST II is pretty solid. I've seen some fail, but my life doesn't depend on it, so I just send it off to Vortex for warranty...

 

[accurate obsession]

Ive been wondering this too. I have the PSY Gen 2 on an RPR. I have never fealt held back but I also don't have the tools to test its tracking. Been trying to decide if its worth leaving on the RPR or upgrading scopes and shifting the Viper off onto my .223.

I see a lot of negative reviews aswell. Ive pressed a few of the people and its always been "well ive seen one fail" or "my buddy" or even "my buddy saw one fail". In all cases there's been very little substance to the claims.

I will say I say down one night while watching TV. I cranked my elevation turret up and down at random intervals and going all the way through my adjustment range more than a few times. Did this for 10-15 minutes straight. Next day it was still zeroed.

With me as well it's always been "I heard, I read, somebody said" their Vortex failed. I'm sure it happens but mine are all solid. One thing consistent is that when there is a failure the Vortex warranty takes care of it.

 

[Lowlight]

Dude,

Forget what you "heard" or what you saw, I am telling you from first hand experienced as well as recorded documentation

Vortex has the highest rate of error... especially in the sub $1000 models

Part of that is due to volume, part of that is due to the lack of quality

Stop with your, "but mine' bullshit,

I am sure it Happens a lot, in fact I am sure it happens more than their Owners Realize !

 

[Tokay444]

I want the scope from the company that doesn’t mention that they even have a warranty. “We haven’t thought about warranty because we’ve never made anything that wasn’t perfect.”
Everyone who preaches Vortex can’t help but mention the warranty. The fact you paid for two scopes up front when you consider the cost to quality aspect means that first free one is already out of pocket.

 

[Lowlight]

The low-cost scopes really arent the deal people think they are because they are usually 2% off and /or fail in some way pretty consistently.

As I have noted many times, while there are some very good scopes mixed into the equation, the more scopes they sell, the less they worry about them. It's easier to simply replace it. I think the $1500 mark is where this starts to change. Again we do have a few exceptions, like the Brownells Optic, everyone has tested 100% and the quality has been consistent.

Better still are the few scopes like SWFA with the 5-25x that still punches above its weight class and hasn't seen the need to Generation it because they did it right the first time. When you start getting into Generations, that is where I start to look elsewhere, to be honest. Unless there is a material, noticeable change, like dramatically different, then it's just about keeping the Brand /Model Name alive

 

[Dthomas3523]

I want the scope from the company that doesn’t mention that they even have a warranty. “We haven’t thought about warranty because we’ve never made anything that wasn’t perfect.”
Everyone who preaches Vortex can’t help but mention the warranty. The fact you paid for two scopes up front when you consider the cost to quality aspect means that first free one is already out of pocket.

Shameless plug for ZCO. They don’t really advertise much of a warranty. But if you have an issue, they fix it.

 

[striped1]

How are the Arken results? I have been running a few on a a 22 and a 223. May put one on a .204 ruger for prairie dogs.

 

[Lowlight]

Whenever I hear,

“What do you think of...”

I know the questioner already owns it, and I get wanting to validate your decision, but after the fact Is annoying. It’s like an ambush question

now I just refrain from answering because usually its something we wouldn't recommend.

i have only ever seen one Arken, none in class.

 

[accurate obsession]

Whenever I hear,

“What do you think of...”

I know the questioner already owns it, and I get wanting to validate your decision, but after the fact Is annoying. It’s like an ambush question

now I just refrain from answering because usually its something we wouldn't recommend.

i have only ever seen one Arken, none in class.

My question about Vortex was not for validation nor an ambush. Simply wanted your quick take of entry tier Vortex vs others in same category, not vs S&B, ZCO etc. You see way more scopes in use than average people and my opinion and recommendation (for this level of Vortex) is based on a huge sample of two scopes, so thanks for the info.

 

[deersniper]

I want the scope from the company that doesn’t mention that they even have a warranty. “We haven’t thought about warranty because we’ve never made anything that wasn’t perfect.”
Everyone who preaches Vortex can’t help but mention the warranty. The fact you paid for two scopes up front when you consider the cost to quality aspect means that first free one is already out of pocket.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

My question about Vortex was not for validation nor an ambush. Simply wanted your quick take of entry tier Vortex vs others in same category, not vs S&B, ZCO etc. You see way more scopes in use than average people and my opinion and recommendation (for this level of Vortex) is based on a huge sample of two scopes, so thanks for the info.

If you find an older PST or HST that has been well used and hasn't broken yet, then it has a decent chance of tracking.

My HST is maybe 8 or more years old. It tracks and has managed to last, but I recognize that it is not the current norm.

 

[vash522]

Now THAT is some excellent marketing. Way to go NF!

 

[deersniper]

Waiting for lowlight to post about the Moa NFs that didn’t track or were IPHY at his classes lol

he does have good thins to say about the f1 SHVs tho

 

[Mike_in_FL]

If you find an older PST or HST that has been well used and hasn't broken yet, then it has a decent chance of tracking.

I do have an older PST and it did break. As in, brand new running the turrets the elevation "knob" came off the scope. So I sent it back and it doesn't do it now, but you know how much confidence I have in this scope? And I won't pass this POS along to someone else so to me it's just a waste of money and I'm stuck with it. Lesson learned the hard way.

I would be more understanding if it was a Crossfire or whatever but I bought one tier below the Razor and it failed. So the only good Vortex is the Razor. I might be willing to buy a G3 1-10x but I'll probably wait for someone else to come out with the same, like NF.

Life is too short to worry about whether your gear is going to work or not, or when it's going to break.

 

[deersniper]

And I won't pass this POS along to someone else so to me it's just a waste of money and I'm stuck with it. Lesson learned the hard way.

Just post it in the for sale section and say it broke, vortex fixed it. Plenty of people will buy it.

Vortex fanboys say it is feature not defect

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I do have an older PST and it did break. As in, brand new running the turrets the elevation "knob" came off the scope. So I sent it back and it doesn't do it now, but you know how much confidence I have in this scope? And I won't pass this POS along to someone else so to me it's just a waste of money and I'm stuck with it. Lesson learned the hard way.

I would be more understanding if it was a Crossfire or whatever but I bought one tier below the Razor and it failed. So the only good Vortex is the Razor. I might be willing to buy a G3 1-10x but I'll probably wait for someone else to come out with the same, like NF.

Life is too short to worry about whether your gear is going to work or not, or when it's going to break.

I hear ya, I keep wondering when mine will break but it just keeps trucking on.

At this point I have more than gotten my money out of it. If it broke I wouldn't be upset. I would get it replaced and then immediately put the new one up for sale without ever even taking the plastic off.