Rifle Scopes March FML reticle crosshair thickness?

[mmahoney]

Anyone have experience looking through the March FML reticle pictured below? I'm mostly curious about opinions on the crosshair thickness of the reticle at 24x.

 

[ggmanning]

I run a couple of March with the FML. The thickness of the lines is .04mil and the dot is .05mil. I notice no problems in terms of thickness but I also rarely run the scopes at the upper 1/3 of the mag range. The reticle has to be the thickness it is to balance between being seen well at lower mag ranges and not huge at upper mag on an FFP. It's one reason I have always loved a center dot because it allows me to feel like I don't have my target covered up by the reticle at higher mags...personal preference though. I have run the M8 on a few scopes in the past and that dot is .1mil but those scopes topped out at 18x.

 

[mmahoney]

Thanks for the reply. I believe that means this reticle is basically the same size as the FML-1. I was hoping for a touch thinner.

 

[Denys]

The March website states that the floating dot is .1mil and the line thickness is .07mil. This is exactly the same as for the FML-1.

First Focal Plane Reticles | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site

marchscopes.com

 

[lancetkenyon]

I ran a 3-24×52 FML-1. Great hunting reticle. .1MIL center dot = .36" @ 100 yards. Great for hunting. A touch big for 1/4" dots.
Here are a few photos at varying mag ranges on a 545 yards target.
3x

10x

15x

20x

24x

Zoomed in

 

[mmahoney]

Wow! Thank you for the pics, Lancetkenyon. They help me visualize what the similar FML would look like in the same size. The reticle doesn't look as thick as I thought it would but the center dot is also not quite as fine as I hoped. I'd use the scope for primarily shooting paper @ 100 yards. I think I'll go with a different reticle.

 

[DellaDog]

The .1 mil is thick for paper shooting. It’s the reason I went with the FMA2 for paper.
But, its thin for hunting.

 

[mmahoney]

The link Denys posted has been awesome. I think I need to bump up to a 5-40x56. March doesn't seem to make a thinner FML scope at the 24x max magnification. The reticle on the 5-40x56 seems to be half the thickness.

 

[Denys]

@mmahoney Just so you know, the 5-40X56 brings in ED glass and a 4mm thick tube for a 34mm overall tube diameter. These scopes are indestructible; stronger than most anything on the market. It also has ED glass, which will provide even better IQ for paper shooting. I think you will like that scope a lot. It comes in MOA or MIL and it does have knobs for 0.05mil as well as 0.1 mil.

 

[mmahoney]

@Denys I have two questions.
1. What does IQ stand for in terms of optics?
2. Is there a difference between the ED glass in a 5-40x56 and the glass in a High Master scope?

 

[Denys]

@Denys I have two questions.
1. What does IQ stand for in terms of optics?
2. Is there a difference between the ED glass in a 5-40x56 and the glass in a High Master scope?

1. Sorry, old photographer lingo. IQ means Image Quality.

2. The High Master lens system uses Super-ED glass. The 5-40X56 uses ED glass, like the 5-50X56 and the 8-80X56. The HM glass is more advanced, better IQ.

 

[mmahoney]

Image Quality....of course.
I've been scanning the SWFA site at March scopes and the 10-60 High Master is slightly less expensive than the 5-40. I suspect both would more than meet my target shooting needs. I'm a bit surprised that the better glass can be found for less money.

 

[Denys]

Difference in price between FFP and SFP. Also, keep in mind the illuminated reticle price.

 

[mmahoney]

Any reason the illumination feature can add over $500 to the price of a scope? I can see how it would add to the cost, but $500? I plan on putting the scope on an air rifle and often shoot at night because the wind is usually more calm at that time. I shine a light on the targets to make them visible. Would I see any benefit with an illuminated reticle?

 

[Denys]

A couple of thoughts for you.

As you discovered, the FML-1 reticle is different in dimensions between the 5-40X56 and the 3-24X42 or 52.

If you plan on using the scope for shooting paper and you want the finest reticle possible at maximum magnification, you should consider a second focal plane. I have a March-X 10-60X56HM on my F-TR rifle and it has the High Master Lens system for superb IQ and I have the MTR-5 reticle installed. My other March-X, a 5-50X56 with ED lenses started with and MTR-2 reticle but after 5 years of using it in competition, I had March swap out the reticle for an MTR-5. (Yeah, age caught up with my eyes.) I run my Marches at 40X and spend most of my shooting time shipping expensive bullets one at a time 1000 yards downrange.

The new March-FX 5-42X56 has the High Master lens system, which has temperature tolerant anti-drift qualities. It has a wide angle eyepiece at 26 degrees, which provides for a wider field of view. Yes, it costs substantially more than the 5-40X56.

 

[Denys]

Any reason the illumination feature can add over $500 to the price of a scope? I can see how it would add to the cost, but $500? I plan on putting the scope on an air rifle and often shoot at night because the wind is usually more calm at that time. I shine a light on the targets to make them visible. Would I see any benefit with an illuminated reticle?

I'm not much of an illumination guy. The few times I have used illuminated reticles were in hunting situations at night for hogs in Texas. That worked quite well.

I have the illuminated reticles on my March scopes, just because. I don't shoot at night and I never use the illumination feature. If your targets are illuminated, I don't see why you would want to have the reticle illuminated also.

ETA: The popular scopes for Air Rifle are the 5-50X56 and the 8-80X56, as well as the 10-60X56HM. You can also install a large focus wheel to have a very fine focus control. As you know, the closer you are to the target the more finicky focus becomes and since it's on a logarithmic scale, closer is pickier. Many air rifle schooters like the fine granularity of focus with that large wheel. I have those wheels on my March scopes as it allows me to check the mirage at various distances and instantly get back to target to take the shot.

 

[mmahoney]

The new March-FX 5-42X56 has the High Master lens system, which has temperature tolerant anti-drift qualities. It has a wide angle eyepiece at 26 degrees, which provides for a wider field of view. Yes, it costs substantially more than the 5-40X56.

The new March FX-5-42x56 sounds like one heck of a scope, but I'm the type of guy that abhors paying the premium for the latest and greatest (cars, electronics, and now riflescopes, I guess). The Non-illuminated 10-60x56HM with a Dot reticle is looking more and more like the best option for me.

 

[Denys]

The new March FX-5-42x56 sounds like one heck of a scope, but I'm the type of guy that abhors paying the premium for the latest and greatest (cars, electronics, and now riflescopes, I guess). The Non-illuminated 10-60x56HM with a Dot reticle is looking more and more like the best option for me.

Yes, the new 5-42X56 is an awesome scope, with price to match.

For your stated purposes, the 10-60X56HM will be excellent. I absolutely love mine. I use the MTR-5 reticle to good effect in F-Class where one rarely aims directly at the center of the X-ring. But I can see where you would want the very simplest of reticles for Air Rifle. So the D60HV56T with the light crosshair and dot will be perfect.

 

[Glassaholic]

OP, are you looking for a FFP or a SFP scope? For me personally I find the FML-1 in the 3-24x52 to be a bit too thick above 20x, but if you consider the scope to be a 3-20 with the ability to go above 20x in a pinch, that is where it really shines. What type of shooting are you intending this scope to be used for?

The 5-40x56 is supposed to be even better than the 3-24 and as the image above shows the reticle is thinner, if you are looking for a FFP scope this has had good success, but watch for the turrets as they made both .1 mil and .05 mil turrets (my preference is for .1 mil).

 

[mmahoney]

OP, are you looking for a FFP or a SFP scope? For me personally I find the FML-1 in the 3-24x52 to be a bit too thick above 20x, but if you consider the scope to be a 3-20 with the ability to go above 20x in a pinch, that is where it really shines. What type of shooting are you intending this scope to be used for?

The 5-40x56 is supposed to be even better than the 3-24 and as the image above shows the reticle is thinner, if you are looking for a FFP scope this has had good success, but watch for the turrets as they made both .1 mil and .05 mil turrets (my preference is for .1 mil).

I tend to get more use out of SFP scopes as I use a rangefinder and Strelok Pro to calculate clicks for elevation and windage. I would certainly entertain a FFP scope like the 5-40x56 if the price was similar to a SFP. Frankly, I'd love to look through a variety of scopes before I make up my mind. The hardest part of choosing a scope is that I can't walk into my local sporting goods store and line them all up side by side to compare. Fortunately, this site has several experienced members that are trusted sources of info and who freely give their opinions. It would be real nice to be able to look through and handle the scopes myself, though.

 

[mmahoney]

@Denys

My other March-X, a 5-50X56 with ED lenses started with and MTR-2 reticle but after 5 years of using it in competition, I had March swap out the reticle for an MTR-5. (Yeah, age caught up with my eyes.)

I didn't realize this was an option. How much would changing a reticle cost approximately?

 

[DellaDog]

... but watch for the turrets as they made both .1 mil and .05 mil turrets (my preference is for .1 mil).

I really like the March 5-40, both for the thinner reticle and the extra mag. I can see people not liking the additional revs with .05 adjustment, and at first I didn’t either, but, I use it primarily in bench type matches at 500 yards on 3” and 5” plates. It‘s actually nice to have the finer adjustments and move a round ~1” vs 2” at 500 yards. (Especially on a 3” plate!)

But for PRS type shooting, spinning the finer turret would get old fast.

 

[Denys]

@Denys


I didn't realize this was an option. How much would changing a reticle cost approximately?

It's about $275. You have to ship the scope to Japan as it will be opened up, worked on and then sealed again with argon instead of air. They ship the scope directly back to you. When I got my reticle changed, it took about 3 weeks from the time I shipped it to when it showed up back on my doorstep.

 

[Glassaholic]

I tend to get more use out of SFP scopes as I use a rangefinder and Strelok Pro to calculate clicks for elevation and windage. I would certainly entertain a FFP scope like the 5-40x56 if the price was similar to a SFP. Frankly, I'd love to look through a variety of scopes before I make up my mind. The hardest part of choosing a scope is that I can't walk into my local sporting goods store and line them all up side by side to compare. Fortunately, this site has several experienced members that are trusted sources of info and who freely give their opinions. It would be real nice to be able to look through and handle the scopes myself, though.

You're in the same boat as I was years ago, I finally decided to buy a bunch of scopes and review them myself. This turned into an obsessive search for the "perfect" scope which does not exist and you can spend a lot of money trying to find it. Are you mostly shooting paper, steel or animals and at what ranges typically?

 

[mmahoney]

You're in the same boat as I was years ago, I finally decided to buy a bunch of scopes and review them myself. This turned into an obsessive search for the "perfect" scope which does not exist and you can spend a lot of money trying to find it. Are you mostly shooting paper, steel or animals and at what ranges typically?

Buying a few scopes and choosing my favorite has crossed my mind. I'm shooting paper almost exclusively. The gun is an air rifle shooting both pellets and slugs. Ranges with this scope from 25 to 200 yards.

 

[mmahoney]

It's about $275. You have to ship the scope to Japan as it will be opened up, worked on and then sealed again with argon instead of air. They ship the scope directly back to you. When I got my reticle changed, it took about 3 weeks from the time I shipped it to when it showed up back on my doorstep.

That is actually pretty impressive. Much cheaper and faster than I expected and much more cost effective than buying a whole new scope.

 

[mmahoney]

I really like the March 5-40, both for the thinner reticle and the extra mag. I can see people not liking the additional revs with .05 adjustment, and at first I didn’t either, but, I use it primarily in bench type matches at 500 yards on 3” and 5” plates. It‘s actually nice to have the finer adjustments and move a round ~1” vs 2” at 500 yards. (Especially on a 3” plate!)

But for PRS type shooting, spinning the finer turret would get old fast.

I'm thinking I would appreciate the finer adjustment as well. The precision that air rifles are capable of is pretty astounding to me. I can defininely see how in other shooting disciplines the extra turning would be a drawback, though.

 

[DellaDog]

I use the 3-24x52 FMA2 on my Daystate AirWolf. It’s a nice fit.

 

[Hellbender]

My 5-40 is at March now getting the elevation turret changed to a .1 mil (was a .05), it was just too much turning for NRL22/PRS22 stuff, I left the windage at .05 so I'll still have fine zero capability. I think it was only like $75 to change the single turret. Shipping was almost that much...LOL!

 

[Denys]

The new March FX-5-42x56 sounds like one heck of a scope, but I'm the type of guy that abhors paying the premium for the latest and greatest (cars, electronics, and now riflescopes, I guess). The Non-illuminated 10-60x56HM with a Dot reticle is looking more and more like the best option for me.

I did a little bit more research because I was seeing three models for the 10-60X56HM; one with the dot reticle (D60HV56T), one with an MTR-type reticle (D60HV56TM) and one with an MTR-type reticle and illumination (D60HV56TI). There were also size and weight differences between the first two, the non-illuminated ones. I asked March for clarification and this is essentially what they said.

The dot reticle is is not etched in glass. The MTR-type reticles are etched in glass, and the glass needs a retainer ring hence the extra lenght and weight. (It's also why the dot reticle is not available with illumination.) But the main point here is that you cannot easily change the reticle in the scope between dot and MTR-type because the erector tube is different due to the extra length and the attachment.

So just as a caution; if you are thinking of getting a 10-60X56HM with a dot reticle (D60HV56T), you will not be able to change the reticle to an MTR-type (like in a D60HV56TM) as easily as I got mine changed from MTR-2 to MTR-5.

I just wanted you to be aware of this little tidbit.

 

[mmahoney]

I did a little bit more research because I was seeing three models for the 10-60X56HM; one with the dot reticle (D60HV56T), one with an MTR-type reticle (D60HV56TM) and one with an MTR-type reticle and illumination (D60HV56TI). There were also size and weight differences between the first two, the non-illuminated ones. I asked March for clarification and this is essentially what they said.

The dot reticle is is not etched in glass. The MTR-type reticles are etched in glass, and the glass needs a retainer ring hence the extra lenght and weight. (It's also why the dot reticle is not available with illumination.) But the main point here is that you cannot easily change the reticle in the scope between dot and MTR-type because the erector tube is different due to the extra length and the attachment.

So just as a caution; if you are thinking of getting a 10-60X56HM with a dot reticle (D60HV56T), you will not be able to change the reticle to an MTR-type (like in a D60HV56TM) as easily as I got mine changed from MTR-2 to MTR-5.

I just wanted you to be aware of this little tidbit.

Thanks, Denys. That is very good to know.

 

[mmahoney]

I found and bought both March scopes I was looking at. The gentleman who sold me my March 1-10 had both of them and made me an offer too good to pass up. The March FX 5-40x56 has .1 mil clicks and March X 10-60x56 has 1/8 MOA clicks. I'll put both through their paces and probably keep the one that fits my needs the best.

Thanks to all for the helpful info and advice!