Guys - its out. 400 MOA should keep the ELR guys happy and I am keen to try 22lr at 1000 yards. Integral mounts too.
Rifle Scopes March GENESIS - ELR scope
- Thread starter Hairy Biker
- Start date
Very nice . Dial a 375 to over 4000 yards , without holding on the reticle . Looks like
there might be another 100 in the reticle , zoom down to 6x and you get 500 MOA !
there might be another 100 in the reticle , zoom down to 6x and you get 500 MOA !
If I were to venture a guess, it's more of a spotting scope with a reticle. The entire optical system moves with the adjustments instead of an internal erector tube. A la USO SN-9.
But that's just a guess, I have no real insight.
But that's just a guess, I have no real insight.
Hi,
I am more interested in the details of a 416 Cheytac they advertise for 3 mile capabilities.
Sincerely,
Theis
I am more interested in the details of a 416 Cheytac they advertise for 3 mile capabilities.
Sincerely,
Theis
the ELR Guys will like it,
It's definitely better than using an adjustable base, or an overly aggressive base.
I don't see the cost, but it will compete with the Charlie Tarac unit which is only $1400 and works with any existing scopes to add elevation.
It does seem like a more elegant externally adjusted optic, vs an erector style.
It's definitely better than using an adjustable base, or an overly aggressive base.
I don't see the cost, but it will compete with the Charlie Tarac unit which is only $1400 and works with any existing scopes to add elevation.
It does seem like a more elegant externally adjusted optic, vs an erector style.
I figured it’d be for ELR but that’s pretty wild. Okay March, you got me, was not expecting that. Very interesting in the brochure it says “The unique design of this scope allows the shooter to always see through the central part of the lens” which is one of the issues with regular scopes and the extreme limits of the elevation range. It’s not a scope that has interest for me at this time, but I can see how the ELR crowd could really benefit. Good job March.
ELR is a nice niche for March and it will be interesting to see how the scope does. I wonder how durable those baffles are when exposed to adverse conditions.
In principle, externally adjusted designs can offer an edge in durability and weather sealing for the optics. In practice, it solves some problems and introduces some others.
I do not really do ELR per se, but I have a lot of interest in pushing the range of subsonics cartridges like Q's upcoming 8.6CM.
While my interest in the magnification ratio is somewhat peripheral, the adjustment range is interesting. I was looking at TARAC, but this is an interesting option.
ILya
ILya
In principle, externally adjusted designs can offer an edge in durability and weather sealing for the optics. In practice, it solves some problems and introduces some others.
I do not really do ELR per se, but I have a lot of interest in pushing the range of subsonics cartridges like Q's upcoming 8.6CM.
While my interest in the magnification ratio is somewhat peripheral, the adjustment range is interesting. I was looking at TARAC, but this is an interesting option.
ILya
ILya
No pricing yet but FB is quoting approx $5000 to $6000 and first production roughly end of 3rd quarter.
The price will be a roadblock, others have tried it and all have failed.
$5000 to $6000 is beyond the current threshold, though ELR Guys are used to spending more money, they represent really only about 3% out there. It's getting popular but their numbers are still very low.
$5000 to $6000 is beyond the current threshold, though ELR Guys are used to spending more money, they represent really only about 3% out there. It's getting popular but their numbers are still very low.
Is MOA the popular choice for ELR? I like the concept, but they'll have to price it to compete with a normal scope plus a Charlie Tarac.
Ya, most ELR guys are MOA, they come from F Class and the .50 Cal Associations, they mostly shoot MOA.
You can get a Vortex Gen2 Razor $2400, plus $1500 and have 600+ MOA for less $$$$
You can get a Vortex Gen2 Razor $2400, plus $1500 and have 600+ MOA for less $$$$
Interesting that people think the TARAC as a solution - looks more like a ‘fix’ to a lagging technology - or am I being cynical? (Plus you’ve missed the whole point of it all??)
Re. The durability of the spherical seals - think the seals on a Newtsuit did quite well?
Re. MOA - available in MOA and mil
Brgds T
Re. The durability of the spherical seals - think the seals on a Newtsuit did quite well?
Re. MOA - available in MOA and mil
Brgds T
Okay, that's a... thing. Interesting looking, to be sure.
Obviously, aesthetics don't matter when trying to put metal on target, but, uh... yeah.
Obviously, aesthetics don't matter when trying to put metal on target, but, uh... yeah.
Have you used a Charlie unit ?
I have, to 4000 yards with a factory rifle, factory ammo, and my scope ... as noted 600+ MOA of elevation for what can be $1500
No, it starts at 100 yards where my zero is,
Plus you can set the Charlie Unit on the fly, the new version will have a wheel
Plus you can set the Charlie Unit on the fly, the new version will have a wheel
Frank
Not looking to get into a battle over this, ‘no’ I have not used a Charlie unit, only now looking at ‘LR’.
But to me using a ‘fix’ as opposed to a purpose built item is wrong conceptually
Now if you have done well in comps like KO2M or similar with your set up then more power to you - go with it, but I do not count just doing it (aka plinking) if this is what you are offering as proof of any system, but we are all different, let’s leave it at that ?
Brgds Terry
Not looking to get into a battle over this, ‘no’ I have not used a Charlie unit, only now looking at ‘LR’.
But to me using a ‘fix’ as opposed to a purpose built item is wrong conceptually
Now if you have done well in comps like KO2M or similar with your set up then more power to you - go with it, but I do not count just doing it (aka plinking) if this is what you are offering as proof of any system, but we are all different, let’s leave it at that ?
Brgds Terry
David Tubb is using it ... Enough Said
Sure you can call it a fix, but we all don't need our rifles to use 400 MOA every day, this way when I want it, I can clip it on and go. I can adjust it on the fly, it's BULLETPROOF,
Give any tag you want, but I bet he sells 3x more units than the Genisis, it's a ton less money and accomplishes the same thing.
I am not looking to get into a Pissing Contest, I have been involved in the ELR game for quite a while and will be a Board Member when the Org stands up. I also was the Range Officer for the World Record Events. The Charlie Unit was the Game Changer and the fact I can drop it on anyone's Else's rifle after I shoot is a HUGE Plus.
in my opinion, you had the ability to get this great elevation out of a scope and sampled all the wrong people to ask how to use it so more people would adopt the platform
You're telling us what we need, vs listening to us tell you what we want.
Sure you can call it a fix, but we all don't need our rifles to use 400 MOA every day, this way when I want it, I can clip it on and go. I can adjust it on the fly, it's BULLETPROOF,
Give any tag you want, but I bet he sells 3x more units than the Genisis, it's a ton less money and accomplishes the same thing.
I am not looking to get into a Pissing Contest, I have been involved in the ELR game for quite a while and will be a Board Member when the Org stands up. I also was the Range Officer for the World Record Events. The Charlie Unit was the Game Changer and the fact I can drop it on anyone's Else's rifle after I shoot is a HUGE Plus.
in my opinion, you had the ability to get this great elevation out of a scope and sampled all the wrong people to ask how to use it so more people would adopt the platform
You're telling us what we need, vs listening to us tell you what we want.
Didn't anticipate the amount of interest we are getting. Took orders for 3 today at $5K a pop. We put that estimated price in so if it comes in higher, these guys will get it at the $5K price. One of those was a Charlie user.
Also, the current model coming in is MOA, but Deon is working on a MIL version. There are a lot of VETS shooting the ELR now and they are used to MIL reticles, so it is coming.
Also, the current model coming in is MOA, but Deon is working on a MIL version. There are a lot of VETS shooting the ELR now and they are used to MIL reticles, so it is coming.
Time will tell
The fact there is a new Charlie unit coming with a dial will certainly compete.
Being the Range Officer for the ELR Event at SHOT understand only 27 People shot it, and 100 people were watching,
The fact there is a new Charlie unit coming with a dial will certainly compete.
Being the Range Officer for the ELR Event at SHOT understand only 27 People shot it, and 100 people were watching,
Just sold a couple more, so the interest for this type of a scope is very high as the ELR matches are gaining ground in shooting.
I am also building a rifle for it for next year's King of 2 Miles match in Raton. Last year's match was won by Derek Rodgers and spotted by Paul Phillips, both friends and fellow shooters on the US F Class Team.
The information about the Genesis and the reticle is now on our site as well. The "Buy" button is not active yet, but one can call in and speak with George, who is our March salesperson.
http://marchoptics.com/shop/brand_march-optics/firstfocalplane/6-60x56mm-scope
I am also building a rifle for it for next year's King of 2 Miles match in Raton. Last year's match was won by Derek Rodgers and spotted by Paul Phillips, both friends and fellow shooters on the US F Class Team.
The information about the Genesis and the reticle is now on our site as well. The "Buy" button is not active yet, but one can call in and speak with George, who is our March salesperson.
http://marchoptics.com/shop/brand_march-optics/firstfocalplane/6-60x56mm-scope
Daily Bulletin has some vision from IWA.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...0-moa-elevation/comment-page-1/#comment-54656
And thanks Shiraz for the updates - looks like active KO2M shooters are on to it.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...0-moa-elevation/comment-page-1/#comment-54656
And thanks Shiraz for the updates - looks like active KO2M shooters are on to it.
European Fan Reactions,
And I am not the only one that thinks about this competing with the Charlie Unit
The reaction is mixed at best, I am sure you'll get a rush of initial sales, but only time will tell if people want to drop $5k vs $1500
There are always early adopters, the question is, can you sell out your initial run. I have seen
And I am not the only one that thinks about this competing with the Charlie Unit
The reaction is mixed at best, I am sure you'll get a rush of initial sales, but only time will tell if people want to drop $5k vs $1500
There are always early adopters, the question is, can you sell out your initial run. I have seen
No-one is saying that the Charlie is not good for ELR, plus beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
There is a market for both types of customers and you will certainly have ones that will just not spend that kind of money on the March even if there were no other options. $5K is not a small amount. However, so far we have seen a healthy interest and that is always good. It's not like the Genesis is the only March scope we sell. We stock almost a 100 different models that are on hand for instant shipping. Oh, and I just doubled my order with Japan as we will be sold out by the time they come in - about 3 months.
There is a market for both types of customers and you will certainly have ones that will just not spend that kind of money on the March even if there were no other options. $5K is not a small amount. However, so far we have seen a healthy interest and that is always good. It's not like the Genesis is the only March scope we sell. We stock almost a 100 different models that are on hand for instant shipping. Oh, and I just doubled my order with Japan as we will be sold out by the time they come in - about 3 months.
PS, the reason I have not shot the KO2M is, his dates the last few years have conflicted with my training schedule. This last year I did not get back to Denver until after the event started. I drove down to watch the last day and film it for publication as well I filmed segments with David Tubb and John Baker who makes the Charlie Unit
The night before I came in from Alaska when you can OBSERVE from being this close and getting it on film, there is information to be gleaned.
But you got me, I am not an Active Ko2M shooter, and I won't be this year either, with 125 students to train in Alaska I have to prioritize my time and this event conflicts.
But I am one of the 11 proposed to sit on the ELR Board being stood up too... cheap shots at me aside, good luck with your sales effort.
Best of luck with your sales, I am gonna sign off now, as your jackass fanboys have pissed me off enough, that one more cheap shot and I will just delete all the March Genisis threads otherwise.
I am out,
How come no one has mentioned that you can combine the prism and scope together and get 800 MOA?
This is another tool in the ELR toolbox. If someone wanted 800 MOA as an option, they have that option now. At 60 power, with the high master lens system.
I also like when people cherry pick bad comments. I could pull dozens of good comments as well.
There is no need to get defensive, or bash products of any kind here. It is good to have options, and if you don't like or want the option. Then you don't need to purchase it. You can buy different rifle stocks to compete in ELR. You can buy different bipods. You can buy different bullets, and different scopes. But what is interesting is how quickly some people, who have never even seen one in real life, seem to have greatly negative opinions of it.
This is another tool in the ELR toolbox. If someone wanted 800 MOA as an option, they have that option now. At 60 power, with the high master lens system.
I also like when people cherry pick bad comments. I could pull dozens of good comments as well.
There is no need to get defensive, or bash products of any kind here. It is good to have options, and if you don't like or want the option. Then you don't need to purchase it. You can buy different rifle stocks to compete in ELR. You can buy different bipods. You can buy different bullets, and different scopes. But what is interesting is how quickly some people, who have never even seen one in real life, seem to have greatly negative opinions of it.
Nice lateral thinking adding the Tacom to this new optic to get 800 MOA ! Ok ,
long day , maybe not likely , but harassing fire at 6000 + anyone ? Rail mounting the
Taco seems way better than hanging it off the end of the scope . For guys shooting
non chassis style stocks , like a big McMillan , it’s harder to rail mount the Tacom
but I guess an NV mount could be made to work .
long day , maybe not likely , but harassing fire at 6000 + anyone ? Rail mounting the
Taco seems way better than hanging it off the end of the scope . For guys shooting
non chassis style stocks , like a big McMillan , it’s harder to rail mount the Tacom
but I guess an NV mount could be made to work .
I'm sure the BO version could be implemented into traditional stocks.
http://www.badgerordnance.com/night-vision-mounts.html
R
I don't know that that would work since the front objective lens of the Genesis moves up and down. Would that not affect the performance of the gadget you place in front of it?
Maybe someone else. I am extremely pleased with my March-X 5-50X56. I'm not into ELR.
I always appreciate innovation, and generally am excited that manufacturers are spending this type of time and money on development and going out on a limb. The "wide angle eyepiece” sounds also seems like it would be a great addition to March’s other lines of scopes (ie 3-24x52).
As long as the scope objective lens is pointed at least somewhat at the rear aperture of the Charlie it will work.
Not a 100% sure , but I think a wide angle eyepiece might introduce edge distortion
problems , in an optic with high internal travel . The Genesis doesn’t have that issue
due to its design , it’s always perfectly centred .
Thanks. Could you define "somewhat?" It looks like Genesis can have as much as 5 degrees of cant.
Sure. The rear aperture on the Charlie is situated rather low on the unit, in this case working in your favor. Given the right stand-off from the objective, 5 degrees should still grant a clear line of sight to the lower mirror assembly inside the unit. The entire mirror does not need to be visible to function as intended. If mounted to the objective bell, I'm certain it would function flawlessly. If rail mounted (like the one in the pic) as long as the unit was close enough to the objective to allow a mostly uninterrupted line of sight (i.e. the scope is looking at the device and not down at the rail or barrel) it should work, no problemo.
Please, nobody make fun of my Casio watch...
Thanks Ratman . Doesn’t everybody have a few Casios kicking around 
.
Charlie on a Genesis is very high on my radar now . Goes to more than 11 .....
. Charlie on a Genesis is very high on my radar now . Goes to more than 11 .....
after a few months of research and trying different systems, I got myself the Genesis 6-60 on my desert tech srsa2 with 3 barrels, from 6.5 to 33XC and 37XC for the proper elr stuff only. I wanted one scope. You can read more about the entire experience here March genesis 6-60
