Marines getting updated qualifier

[SD Carpenter]

Marines Overhaul Rifle Qualification to Feature Moving Targets, Night Fire

By 2021 Marines could start going through an Annual Rifle Qualification that requires shooters to engage realistic targets.

www.military.com

Multiple tests including moving targets / day and night shooting.

 

[diggler1833]

Whaaaaaa??? We had moving targets way back when too...for the Field Fire portion of the KD course.

...It was mostly a marksmanship test to see if you could clip the top of the berm and throw a divot over onto your buddy's head who was walking back and forth in the pits with the lollipop. ?

Four berm strikes...and still a perfect score.

 

[candyx]

I thought the moving target qualification testing on realistic targets was held on the day you were dropped into a hot LZ ?

 

[Ravenworks]

That target is about racist as fuck,what's up with using a white guy?

 

[TheBigCountry]

So teach them to shoot one way at boot camp, then go to the fleet and it’s a whole different ball game if I read that correctly?

 

[chevy_man]

So teach them to shoot one way at boot camp, then go to the fleet and it’s a whole different ball game if I read that correctly?

Boot is generally basics, fleet would be ongoing training if you're infantry.


I used to do a lot of contracting on an Air Base. Their quals were hilarious to watch. I was working in a bucket truck above the firing range and most of those airmen (MP's) couldn't hit anything.


So, I'd say all branches need to focus on actually hitting shit with the ammo our tax dollars buy.

 

[JakeM]

Boot is generally basics, fleet would be ongoing training if you're infantry.


I used to do a lot of contracting on an Air Base. Their quals were hilarious to watch. I was working in a bucket truck above the firing range and most of those airmen (MP's) couldn't hit anything.


So, I'd say all branches need to focus on actually hitting shit with the ammo our tax dollars buy.

Well when probably 80+% of recruits show up and tell the recruiter “ I want to shoot guns” they look at it as free bullets.

 

[slodsm]

A friend of mine Maj Jensen had a lot of involvement in that project starting back in either 14 or 15 at Quantico. He was ridiculously excited about what it offered over the KD course we’ve been using since the invention of the rifled barrel.

 

[pmclaine]

KD course has its value in teaching riflery, consistency, tradition It should be maintained.

Yes add more shooting of a practical app nature.

My big disappointment in the USMC was lack of shooting anything despite being in an infantry BN.

When we did get unlimited ammo to shoot, CAX, we didnt use it because we knew rifle inspection was going to be the wedge to screw with us upon returning home and getting a 96.

Go back to the day when troops were issued a monthly allotment of ammo and give them individual access to their rifles and discretionary use of the range.

Than you will have riflemen.

"But what if someone gets hurt?" mentality is the problem.

 

[M8541Reaper]

KD course has its value in teaching riflery, consistency, tradition It should be maintained.

Yes add more shooting of a practical app nature.

My big disappointment in the USMC was lack of shooting anything despite being in an infantry BN.

Yep.

 

[oneshot86]

KD course has its value in teaching riflery, consistency, tradition It should be maintained.

Yes add more shooting of a practical app nature.

My big disappointment in the USMC was lack of shooting anything despite being in an infantry BN.

When we did get unlimited ammo to shoot, CAX, we didnt use it because we knew rifle inspection was going to be the wedge to screw with us upon returning home and getting a 96.

Go back to the day when troops were issued a monthly allotment of ammo and give them individual access to their rifles and discretionary use of the range.

Than you will have riflemen.

"But what if someone gets hurt?" mentality is the problem.

double yep

 

[TheBigCountry]

Bring back SIM rounds to. Those stupid BFAs dont do any justice in MOUT

 

[TheBigCountry]

I really liked the UKD range with reactive targets we shot up one time. Full kit and have to engage the targets as they popped up; you had to snap in and drop it before time ran out. That and the night shoots/transition drills.

More of that into the POG units would be awesome to see

 

[Switchblade]

I's FMF only. Basic will remain the same dedicated fundamental proving program from what I have read in military journals

 

[M8541Reaper]

Bring back SIM rounds to. Those stupid BFAs dont do any justice in MOUT

That’s a budgetary issue...but I definitely agree.

 

[cherokeefan03]

KD course has its value in teaching riflery, consistency, tradition It should be maintained.

Yes add more shooting of a practical app nature.

My big disappointment in the USMC was lack of shooting anything despite being in an infantry BN.

When we did get unlimited ammo to shoot, CAX, we didnt use it because we knew rifle inspection was going to be the wedge to screw with us upon returning home and getting a 96.

Go back to the day when troops were issued a monthly allotment of ammo and give them individual access to their rifles and discretionary use of the range.

Than you will have riflemen.

"But what if someone gets hurt?" mentality is the problem.

So your unit was too concerned with a 96 than they were with actually training with "unlimited" resources? Sounds like it was your unit's problem, not a Marine Corps problem.

 

[M8541Reaper]

“...training with "unlimited" resources?”

Not sure about him, but I never experienced unlimited resources...let alone ever heard those words uttered while in.
Hahahaha

 

[sirhrmechanic]

In reading the whole article, it looks like they are making the annual qualification not only more realistic, but more difficult.

Basic training is just that. Basic. Once you get to a unit, (or after basic) you get your advanced training. Used to be called AIT in the Army. Not sure what the Marines called it. Nothing wrong with that philosophy. Need to get everyone to a base level. Then skills trained. And then let unit do the polishing and fit people into their unit norms.

One interesting thing to note is that it appears that the course will now be shot with optics. Which is going to take some of the difficulty out of the longest shots. Some. But if the standards are being raised (at a time when they are being lowered to accept... all 96 genders, shall we say?), then this looks like a pretty good move. And since optics are now de-rigeur for everyone, then they should train with them and qualify with them. It's pretty stupid to take a Fleet unit that uses Acog's ever day of the year, then strip them off for quals. Then put them back on to go back to work. Train the way you fight. Qualify the way you fight. Qualify with your own weapon!

Marine PMI is worth listening to on this... since this was his job for a long time! He sent me this a couple of weeks ago and I thought it was a great read.

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. Allowing unlimited ammo and rifle time during weekends or leave or whatever... would be a brilliant move. Expensive? I am willing to bet that the Marine corps spends less on small-arms ammo than on, say, coffee. For the price of a single new gen Amtrak (4 - 7 million) they could buy 3c. 38 million rounds of ammunition at 17 - .22 cents a round. With c. 215K active marines, that's 175 rounds per marine each year. That's for every Marine, including UCMCR. If you figure that every active infantry marine (c. 55,000) participates, that's 700 rounds each. But not every infantry marine, by any means, is going to take their free time to go to the range and shoot regularly... even with unlimited ammo. So if just 30 percent of them did (wildly optimistic... bet it's less than 10 percent)... that's 2100 rounds a year. The math is that 'unlimited ammo' would not even be a rounding error in the Marines budget. And imagine the payoff if 10 percent of every Marine unit was not just a superb shot... but was Davy damn Crockett with his rifle? For the cost of one Amtrak. Never happen, though. Supply officers will never allow their precious hordes to be looted for something like... self-motivated training!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I qualified with the M14, then went to ITR, where I learned on the Garand. We had Night Fire, John Wayne Course (Trail w/pop-ups alongside), Fire and Maneuver, Squad Tactics, and KD.

Then, as the (Engineer) BN formed in Pendleton, we had Live Squad Fire UKD, and Blank Fire Surprise response during route march. Some dumb Marine rested his rifle on my shoulder and dumped a mag of blanks through the BFA. Never heard right in my right ear after that.

Some dumb Pelican landed in the midst of the KD Range Squad Tactics evolution, the tower directed fire at the exact same vicinity, an entire Company concentrated fire on it, and the Pelican flew away when the Cease Fire was given.

Then we went in combat In RVN.

So, this is no longer the routine?

I'm shocked, I tell you; shocked...

Greg

 

[cherokeefan03]

In reading the whole article, it looks like they are making the annual qualification not only more realistic, but more difficult.

Basic training is just that. Basic. Once you get to a unit, (or after basic) you get your advanced training. Used to be called AIT in the Army. Not sure what the Marines called it. Nothing wrong with that philosophy. Need to get everyone to a base level. Then skills trained. And then let unit do the polishing and fit people into their unit norms.

One interesting thing to note is that it appears that the course will now be shot with optics. Which is going to take some of the difficulty out of the longest shots. Some. But if the standards are being raised (at a time when they are being lowered to accept... all 96 genders, shall we say?), then this looks like a pretty good move. And since optics are now de-rigeur for everyone, then they should train with them and qualify with them. It's pretty stupid to take a Fleet unit that uses Acog's ever day of the year, then strip them off for quals. Then put them back on to go back to work. Train the way you fight. Qualify the way you fight. Qualify with your own weapon!

Marine PMI is worth listening to on this... since this was his job for a long time! He sent me this a couple of weeks ago and I thought it was a great read.

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. Allowing unlimited ammo and rifle time during weekends or leave or whatever... would be a brilliant move. Expensive? I am willing to bet that the Marine corps spends less on small-arms ammo than on, say, coffee. For the price of a single new gen Amtrak (4 - 7 million) they could buy 3c. 38 million rounds of ammunition at 17 - .22 cents a round. With c. 215K active marines, that's 175 rounds per marine each year. That's for every Marine, including UCMCR. If you figure that every active infantry marine (c. 55,000) participates, that's 700 rounds each. But not every infantry marine, by any means, is going to take their free time to go to the range and shoot regularly... even with unlimited ammo. So if just 30 percent of them did (wildly optimistic... bet it's less than 10 percent)... that's 2100 rounds a year. The math is that 'unlimited ammo' would not even be a rounding error in the Marines budget. And imagine the payoff if 10 percent of every Marine unit was not just a superb shot... but was Davy damn Crockett with his rifle? For the cost of one Amtrak. Never happen, though. Supply officers will never allow their precious hordes to be looted for something like... self-motivated training!

RCOs have been used for annual Qualifications since like 2010, it's nothing new.

But giving people ammo allotments and letting them draw weapons and SL3 for individual range training is extremely bad idea, IMO. We just saw an example of how a unit was too lazy to use their ammo because they had to clean their guns afterwards. Even so, we don't need marines out there shooting like whatever instagram star of the week tells them to do, we need them trained in groups, to marine corps standards, which people and units already can't keep up with. Treating a random infantry marine like hes an 18b on an A team is a recipe for disaster. They are not comparable skillsets. It would lead to nothing but stolen and lost gear (Guarantee they would have to shut the base down every weekend because some dingus lost his weapon), gratuitous safety issues (range control would lose their minds trying to keep everyone from killing each other), and a net benefit of almost nothing.

Safety regulations, RSOs, Safety corpsmen, and regimented training are all there so people of the lowest common denominator don't die.

 

[308pirate]

It would lead to nothing but stolen and lost gear (Guarantee they would have to shut the base down every weekend because some dingus lost his weapon), gratuitous safety issues (range control would lose their minds trying to keep everyone from killing each other), and a net benefit of almost nothing.

Sounds like your typical public range

 

[pmclaine]

So your unit was too concerned with a 96 than they were with actually training with "unlimited" resources? Sounds like it was your unit's problem, not a Marine Corps problem.

Never experienced "unlimited resources".

It was much the opposite.

At CAX though it was the only place when I ever saw ammo boxes being broken open and you could take whole bandoleers if you wanted.

There were live fire excercises - assaulting a trench, and night live fire, - when in order to make the final protective fire look cool they wanted lots of ammo being fired.

Kind of defeated the purposes of night live fire for the Dragon section I was in because they had us using the thermal night tracker system. There were so many flares and tracers going down range it looked like daylight. I was just one hole away from the corporal that was to fire the Dragon and I could hear him saying he couldn't see shit with all the heat down range.

When they yelled fire the Dragon it fired than blew up just about minimal distance for arming.

It was good though because they called a seize fire and put us in our sleeping bags.

CAX was the only place I saw that amount of readily available ammo. The next time was in Liberia. First 2/4 than 3/8 came to visit the embassy and it was the only instance I saw boxes of magazines and actual boxes of frags available for ready use.

Every 96 was a period of torture. You booked three flights and sweated whether or not either the rifles or barracks would pass inspection to get libo called in time to make one of your flights.

 

[TheGerman]

Whats the current night time qualifier with the PEQ15? I saw a shot where they had a guy 6 feet from a full sized target lol

I love how the new target is James Yaeger in a watch cap.

 

[pmclaine]

RCOs have been used for annual Qualifications since like 2010, it's nothing new.

But giving people ammo allotments and letting them draw weapons and SL3 for individual range training is extremely bad idea, IMO. We just saw an example of how a unit was too lazy to use their ammo because they had to clean their guns afterwards. Even so, we don't need marines out there shooting like whatever instagram star of the week tells them to do, we need them trained in groups, to marine corps standards, which people and units already can't keep up with. Treating a random infantry marine like hes an 18b on an A team is a recipe for disaster. They are not comparable skillsets. It would lead to nothing but stolen and lost gear (Guarantee they would have to shut the base down every weekend because some dingus lost his weapon), gratuitous safety issues (range control would lose their minds trying to keep everyone from killing each other), and a net benefit of almost nothing.

Safety regulations, RSOs, Safety corpsmen, and regimented training are all there so people of the lowest common denominator don't die.

No the problem is not treating Troops like adults.

Prior to the 1950s period Troops were issued their one rifle and it went everywhere with them.

They were expected to be responsible for their gear and the constant threat was lose your shit and your pay will be docked.

And you know what.....some guys lost their shit.....even rifles...and it didn't end their careers.

An infantryman was treated like shit in my time.

Looked at as though any freedom would be a means to fuck up. For the most part they were right but rather than being nannies, how about letting Darwin and individual punishment be the remedy.

The entire unit got fucked with for the one fuck up.

I get only as strong as the weakest link but there comes a time when you should find that link unfit for service and save the morale of the many.

I would love to have shot more. The armory games, the motor pool games, the field day games just really sucked.

We damaged more rifles, hummers and actually made the barracks dirtier using methods to try and pass a dumb stringency of inspection that wasn't applied to save gear but to mess with the ranks.

I only knew one infantry unit having served with 3/8.

I was an embassy guard when 2/4 came to Liberia. They were shortly thereafter replaced by 3/8.

Few of the guys I had been in the unit with still remained.

2/4 didn't make a footprint on the Embassy in their operations.

3/8 clogged the toilets at the pool, put the pool itself out of order, had an ND with a SAW on auto one floor above the Embassy Marine House..........

You are right it may have been my unit.

 

[TheBigCountry]

No the problem is not treating Troops like adults.

Prior to the 1950s period Troops were issued their one rifle and it went everywhere with them.

They were expected to be responsible for their gear and the constant threat was lose your shit and your pay will be docked.

And you know what.....some guys lost their shit.....even rifles...and it didn't end their careers.

An infantryman was treated like shit in my time.

Looked at as though any freedom would be a means to fuck up. For the most part they were right but rather than being nannies, how about letting Darwin and individual punishment be the remedy.

The entire unit got fucked with for the one fuck up.

I get only as strong as the weakest link but there comes a time when you should find that link unfit for service and save the morale of the many.

I would love to have shot more. The armory games, the motor pool games, the field day games just really sucked.

We damaged more rifles, hummers and actually made the barracks dirtier using methods to try and pass a dumb stringency of inspection that wasn't applied to save gear but to mess with the ranks.

I only knew one infantry unit having served with 3/8.

I was an embassy guard when 2/4 came to Liberia. They were shortly thereafter replaced by 3/8.

Few of the guys I had been in the unit with still remained.

2/4 didn't make a footprint on the Embassy in their operations.

3/8 clogged the toilets at the pool, put the pool itself out of order, had an ND with a SAW on auto one floor above the Embassy Marine House..........

You are right it may have been my unit.

One of the few reasons I got out. One shitbag ruined the whole section, and punish everyone for one. That and being constantly treated like a child with the constant fuck-fuck games over standards the higher-ups didn’t even follow themselves

 

[pmclaine]

One of the few reasons I got out. One shitbag ruined the whole section, and punish everyone for one. That and being constantly treated like a child with the constant fuck-fuck games over standards the higher-ups didn’t even follow themselves

I really hope it's different.

We expound on the education of and technological superiority of our troops yet treat them like babies.

That's done well in the latest shootings on bases by getting an Annapolis grad killed for lack of access to a gun.

If we doubt the ability of average GI Joe to be armed why do we defend the Second Amendment for citizen fuck up?

 

[M8541Reaper]

RCOs have been used for annual Qualifications since like 2010, it's nothing new.

But giving people ammo allotments and letting them draw weapons and SL3 for individual range training is extremely bad idea, IMO. We just saw an example of how a unit was too lazy to use their ammo because they had to clean their guns afterwards. Even so, we don't need marines out there shooting like whatever instagram star of the week tells them to do, we need them trained in groups, to marine corps standards, which people and units already can't keep up with. Treating a random infantry marine like hes an 18b on an A team is a recipe for disaster. They are not comparable skillsets. It would lead to nothing but stolen and lost gear (Guarantee they would have to shut the base down every weekend because some dingus lost his weapon), gratuitous safety issues (range control would lose their minds trying to keep everyone from killing each other), and a net benefit of almost nothing.

Safety regulations, RSOs, Safety corpsmen, and regimented training are all there so people of the lowest common denominator don't die.

All. Of. This.
Fuckin IG wannabe stars and rando civis with a gun shot the shit out of my target this weekend at the range. Zero awareness of what their projectile does once it leaves the muzzle as long as they get it on film or show off to their friends. Giving weapons and ammo to service members for use after hours is a huge cluster fuck waiting to happen. Special units are special for a reason...because there’s an actual standard. Same goes for security contractors. Just cause your IG says you’re a merc (you aren’t), you’re still nothing more than a former E3 (or worse, E7) who can barely be trusted to walk and chew gum.

 

[hankpac]

That target is about racist as fuck,what's up with using a white guy?

That isn't racist, that is mentally, subliminally and overtly preparing troops to fire on American Patriots.

 

[pmclaine]

I really liked the UKD range with reactive targets we shot up one time. Full kit and have to engage the targets as they popped up; you had to snap in and drop it before time ran out. That and the night shoots/transition drills.

More of that into the POG units would be awesome to see

Civilian club I belong to gets access to the local mil range via the CMP.

Sometimes we shoot the 400 yard army Combat Target course....

Stop checking out my ass and note the pop up Ivans......

Better is the 900 Meter Saw Range....

Of course the military being anal retentive couldnt have just dispersed targets at any range they have to be in line 100M, 200M, 300M etc. but still its good fun.

If a bunch of civilians can utilize these ranges with no DOD oversight why cant Troops under the watchful eye of a suitably attired @MarinePMI ....

Have access to a range on their own time?

I would have paid for my own ammo to been able to draw a rifle and head to the range. If you want to nanny it than get a bus, have it meet at the armory, use it to take all enthusiasts to the range than have it take them back to the armory at the end of the day.

Trigger time.....Nice thing about the 900M range they added some steel on concrete bases spread amongst the "Rainbow Warrior" Ivans. These are UKD until you mil them out and find they are at the half mark between two 100M lines so this is 5 shots at the 550M steel...



That complex contains my nirvana of shooting experiences. A place called Curry Range. I intend to be able to shoot it at some point. It is 20 steel plates at "Unknown" distances out to about 1000Y. I want to shoot that range with one box of FGMM and nothing but scope milling. Ill spend a good hour or two drawing a range card before even unpacking the ammo. A perfect day will be twenty shots and twenty hits.

 

[pmclaine]

All. Of. This.
Fuckin IG wannabe stars and rando civis with a gun shot the shit out of my target this weekend at the range. Zero awareness of what their projectile does once it leaves the muzzle as long as they get it on film or show off to their friends. Giving weapons and ammo to service members for use after hours is a huge cluster fuck waiting to happen. Special units are special for a reason...because there’s an actual standard. Same goes for security contractors. Just cause your IG says you’re a merc (you aren’t), you’re still nothing more than a former E3 (or worse, E7) who can barely be trusted to walk and chew gum.

So than rather than hold the miscreant accountable lets hold everyone to the lowest common denominator.

Better start collecting up them guns now for destruction.

Seems you support banning.

 

[M8541Reaper]

So than rather than hold the miscreant accountable lets hold everyone to the lowest common denominator.

Better start collecting up them guns now for destruction.

Seems you support banning.

lol What?

To your first point, that’s literally how the military has to be run due to its size and standards for entry.

Dude the average service member cannot be trusted with uncontrolled access to their system or ammo. The same millennials people here butch about are the same millennials in service lol. You can’t talk about how incompetent they are one minute and then say they should be allowed to have their govt-issued systems and an ammo allotment to do as they wish with on libo. So by allowing this we’re talking nightly 100% formations, after already having a 100% libo formation earlier that afternoon, until the armory count is up and all vehicles/brass/targetry/equipment has been accounted for and policed? Oh one is missing/not back in time? Lock down the entire base until it’s found. ...which is exactly what happens when one isn’t accounted for. Oh you did a low-light shoot and a PEQ or NODs are missing? Get the entire unit out there to police call on line until it’s found. Because that’s exactly what that would entail and I wouldn’t wish that on the shittiest of units.

I’m all about holding people accountable for their incompetence. If you can’t demonstrate a competent understanding of basic firearms safety, and you put those around you at risk of death or serious bodily harm, you don’t rate to press a trigger. The 2A doesn’t prohibit others from calling you out for being a dangerous and incompetent piece of shit while you flag your neighbor with a weapon, discharge into the roof of the public range, have zero regard for where your rounds impact, or fingerfuck a firearm while others are downrange changing targets.

Being pro safety and competence doesn’t equal being pro ban/anti-2A.

 

[TheBigCountry]

Civilian club I belong to gets access to the local mil range via the CMP.

Sometimes we shoot the 400 yard army Combat Target course....

View attachment 7202926

Stop checking out my ass and note the pop up Ivans......

Better is the 900 Meter Saw Range....

View attachment 7202927

Of course the military being anal retentive couldnt have just dispersed targets at any range they have to be in line 100M, 200M, 300M etc. but still its good fun.

If a bunch of civilians can utilize these ranges with no DOD oversight why cant Troops under the watchful eye of a suitably attired @MarinePMI ....

View attachment 7202928

Have access to a range on their own time?

I would have paid for my own ammo to been able to draw a rifle and head to the range. If you want to nanny it than get a bus, have it meet at the armory, use it to take all enthusiasts to the range than have it take them back to the armory at the end of the day.

Trigger time.....Nice thing about the 900M range they added some steel on concrete bases spread amongst the "Rainbow Warrior" Ivans. These are UKD until you mil them out and find they are at the half mark between two 100M lines so this is 5 shots at the 550M steel...



That complex contains my nirvana of shooting experiences. A place called Curry Range. I intend to be able to shoot it at some point. It is 20 steel plates at "Unknown" distances out to about 1000Y. I want to shoot that range with one box of FGMM and nothing but scope milling. Ill spend a good hour or two drawing a range card before even unpacking the ammo. A perfect day will be twenty shots and twenty hits.

View attachment 7202931

View attachment 7202932

View attachment 7202933

If we had a range like that available here in sunny and stupid hot FL, I’d be all over it.

The time we got to shoot the Army range with pop-up Ivan’s was good training. You had to take a SWAG on the range it was, get a hold with the right stadia with the RCO, then nail it before it dropped on its own. Much more effective then the run of the mil yearly qual at 2,3, and 500. I asked some higher ups quite often why we didn’t do more of the high-speed stuff, and never quite got the answer I was seeking. Only one Gunny was real with me, and his answer was either go back to the Grunts or pay for it out of your own pocket on your own time

 

[M8541Reaper]

As for those calling the target racist or some sort of bullshit deep state training plot to target Americans...you’ve clearly never seen the old photo targets of random white people in various poses that some LE and Mil units used to use. Who could forget about Ron Jeremy and Macaulay Culkin or Jeffrey Dahmer? Go take a look at IZZY. That’s about the biggest example of a “racist” target used by the the biggest PC agency we have lol.

Photorealistic targets are the best for training, especially for quals and shoot/no shoots. Way better than Echos, Ivans, or B-21’s.

 

[pmclaine]

lol What?

To your first point, that’s literally how the military has to be run due to its size and standards for entry.

Dude the average service member cannot be trusted with uncontrolled access to their system or ammo. The same millennials people here butch about are the same millennials in service lol. You can’t talk about how incompetent they are one minute and then say they should be allowed to have their govt-issued systems and an ammo allotment to do as they wish with on libo. So by allowing this we’re talking nightly 100% formations, after already having a 100% libo formation earlier that afternoon, until the armory count is up and all vehicles/brass/targetry/equipment has been accounted for and policed? Oh one is missing/not back in time? Lock down the entire base until it’s found. ...which is exactly what happens when one isn’t accounted for. Oh you did a low-light shoot and a PEQ or NODs are missing? Get the entire unit out there to police call on line until it’s found. Because that’s exactly what that would entail and I wouldn’t wish that on the shittiest of units.

I’m all about holding people accountable for their incompetence. If you can’t demonstrate a competent understanding of basic firearms safety, and you put those around you at risk of death or serious bodily harm, you don’t rate to press a trigger. The 2A doesn’t prohibit others from calling you out for being a dangerous and incompetent piece of shit while you flag your neighbor with a weapon, discharge into the roof of the public range, have zero regard for where your rounds impact, or fingerfuck a firearm while others are downrange changing targets.

Being pro safety and competence doesn’t equal being pro ban/anti-2A.

Than let's let her RIF and bring the mil down to a size to protect the USA while putting the onus on the rest Of the world to Police their own areas.

If a guy can't be trusted on a square static range why would he be trusted in a combat zone.

Agreed incompetent people should be called out. Better to find out in a somewhat sterile place than a place where observation can not be guaranteed.

PEQs or NODs go missing cost to Private Bailey is paying $6K you wont be getting paid for 3 months but we are going to let you stay in because we are optimistic you will never lose another piece of gear after that lesson.

If we can't let soldiers access to their weapons because we "assume" incompetence than we have to train better or "assume" no one is competent.

And PS.......I know you are not anti 2A but why not jab that needle just to piss you off when you gave me the opening.

 

[pmclaine]

If we had a range like that available here in sunny and stupid hot FL, I’d be all over it.

The time we got to shoot the Army range with pop-up Ivan’s was good training. You had to take a SWAG on the range it was, get a hold with the right stadia with the RCO, then nail it before it dropped on its own. Much more effective then the run of the mil yearly qual at 2,3, and 500. I asked some higher ups quite often why we didn’t do more of the high-speed stuff, and never quite got the answer I was seeking. Only one Gunny was real with me, and his answer was either go back to the Grunts or pay for it out of your own pocket on your own time

Army friend tells me the trick is to shoot the berms and expect the dirt/stone to score a hit.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Than let's let her RIF and bring the mil down to a size to protect the USA while putting the onus on the rest I feel the world to Police their own areas.

If a guy can't be trusted on a square static range why would he be trusted in a combat zone.

Agreed incompetent people should be called out. Better to find out what n a somewhat sterile place than a place where observation can not be guaranteed.

PEQs or NODs go missing cost to Private Bailey is paying $6K you wont be getting paid for 3 months but we are going to let you stay in because we are optimistic you will never lose another piece of gear after that lesson.

If we can't let soldiers access to their weapons because we "assume" incompetence than we have to train better or "assume" no one is competent.

And PS.......I know you are not anti 2A but why not jab that needle just to piss you off when you gave me the opening.

Thanks boo ? you know me too well lol.

I agree with you 100% man.

 

[308pirate]

The entire unit got fucked with for the one fuck up.

You guys just failed to provide the proper motivation