Sidearms & Scatterguns Marines to field Colt .45 1911

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

ok seriously guys stop, i have to say it STOP. ask travis haley what he thinks of the 1911. i have had more failures with my glocks then any of my 1911's. and i have had 2 glock 19's and 2 glock 17's from multiple gens. i still like my glocks but they aren't the be all end all, i have sigs, i have HK's. for those that want to use it the 1911 is a valid combat pistol. carry what you like cuz you are a civi and will shoot paper targets and hopefully never have to draw a gun in defense of yourself and your family. leave the choices of what would make a good combat pistol to those who actually have seen or have to go to combat.

 

[hatidua]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Apparently the Marines forgot to ask the readership here as to what they really need, most forum members seem to know what's best for others...

 

[Win70chris]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

"ask travis haley what he thinks of the 1911?"

Doesn't he carry a Glock 17 with the grip cut to G19 length for EDC?

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

ask him as a combat pistol considering he carried one for almost 15 years. i actually has a real meusoc pistol that he holds very dear to his heart. i'm not saying glocks are bad but i hate this "1911's are outdated and what were they thinking" talk cuz i know for a fact some operators would and do happily take 1911's into combat. The marsoc guys i have talked to LOVE their pistols.

 

[CavCop]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Colt is going with a set name that been around a bit...

Rather have a lighter pistol with more rounds.

But rather see American Colts vs imported Springers or rusty Kimbers.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

i have over 100k rounds through p226's, i have plastic pistols and they are good but i like the feel of a all steel piece when it comes down to it. i like sigs, i like 1911's, i like the feel of metal.

 

[ShortRangeSniper]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok seriously guys stop, i have to say it STOP. ask travis haley what he thinks of the 1911. i have had more failures with my glocks then any of my 1911's. and i have had 2 glock 19's and 2 glock 17's from multiple gens. i still like my glocks but they aren't the be all end all, i have sigs, i have HK's. for those that want to use it the 1911 is a valid combat pistol. carry what you like cuz you are a civi and will shoot paper targets and hopefully never have to draw a gun in defense of yourself and your family. leave the choices of what would make a good combat pistol to those who actually have seen or have to go to combat. </div></div>

Glocks are considered the most reliable pistols on the planet, period. Not trying to be disrespectful, but your experience means nothing compared to all the other data out there. Also, noone cares what Travis Smiley thinks. All the other SMUs got rid of their 1911 within months of going into combat in Afghanistan. That means something. Noone is arguing that the 1911 is not a valid combat pistol. But it is not the best, not by a long shot.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

what SMU? and who are you talking too? there is no "best" anything in any firearm. which some people on this site have a stupid hard time figuring out. there is no "do all". they ditched their 1911's for what? a beretta? if thats the case then more power to em, you'd have to force me to carry that POS. if my choice was a 1911 or a 9mm of any type guess what the 1911 is riding my hip. i don't care what 9mm you offer me. but who am i to say i don't do anything special.

the only other service pistols i know of are the sig p226 and hk45c

there are some p228's and g19's in rotation. i don't know about the tier 1 boys haven't touched base in a while.

of all of those i would carry a 1911, the 226 is a awesome pistol, i own one and like i said have 100k + rounds through em. the saying goes "9mm may expand but 45 will never shrink"

the hk45c is good but as issued needs a seriously better trigger the DA trigger pull is HORRIBLE.

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

With all due respect, a statement like "Glocks are considered the most reliable pistols on the planet, period." is kind of one-sided and baseless. Don't get me wrong, they are one of the most popular pistols out there. But who is "considering" them to be the global dominator?
Looking at a lot of the European military and LE agencies, I see a toss up of Glock, Sig, and HK as standard sidearms. Being more realistic, also consider initial cost, and lets not forget armorer training, parts, and other little odds and ends when it would come to a new contract. A 1911 being a good candidate because of how copied it is. Nearly every major manufacturer has their own version, parts and trained armorers are very abundant. But you could say almost the same with Glock as well. Diffrence is, the 1911 already has made its mark in the US military, and there is a lot of familiarity with it.

The Mark 23, in all its awesomeness, just would not make a viable choice. 1) Its more mission specific. 2) A $2300 price tag for the pistol alone. 3) Its just fucking big. The SEALs picked it, but there are way less of them, and it was not regularly carried. That duty went to the P226. The HK45 isn't bad, a solution to the trigger would be the LEM. I have that on my USP45 and its the tits.

I can understand brand loyalty, we all get it to some degree. Some have it just so they can justify the purchase they made. But like WD said. There is no end all. Glock is good, i'll even go so far as to say a great pistol, but there is no cake topper. I have seen almost EVERY type of pistol have a failure. Its not to discount the maker or the model, its a fact of life. I have a friend with a little Kel-tek .380. Cheapest, ugliest, most horrific little turd of a pistol. Has a few thousand rounds through it, not a single malfunction with some of the cheapest shit ammo you can get. Doesnt mean I am going to give it any nominations.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

also and to why most instructors carry glocks. its really hard to teach someone to shoot a plastic gun with a steel one.

even sigs, cz's etc all have extra steps in holstering then plastic guns for the most part. when there is a DA/SA involved over XD's, etc. As a instructor you want to shoot what the majority of your class is shooting. Ever try teaching a bunch of guys to shoot a scar with a aug? same concept. I know for a fact that God himself chris costa has a few full house custom 1911's he likes very much as well as travis, larry vickers, pat rogers, etc. BUT, when the majority of your class shoots 500 dollar glocks why bring a 4k dollar 1911 to teach them with.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShortRangeSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not trying to be disrespectful, but your experience means nothing compared to all the other data out there.</div></div>

I have to say it because I don't have verbal impulse control...

1. You don't really know what his experience is, so for all you know he could be an engineer for glock.

2. Experience trumps online data. Empirical knowledge is the best knowledge.

3. Just starting a sentence with "Not trying to be disrespectful" implies the self awareness that statement about to be given will be in fact that.

Just sayin...

And Sig > Glock

 

[Rem7]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Everyone is going to have their preference in what they want to carry. You won't ever change that. at my work, all we carry are Sigs. Not my preference, I would rather carry a 1911 or a Glock, they feel better to me, but I never had a failure with my Sig that I didn't cause myself. Glocks, Sigs, 1911's are all really good guns. This is a never ending dilema as it has gone in circles amongst my agaency and it doesn't change in the armed forces either. Everyone will have their opinion as to what is best. There is no one hand gun that shines way brighter that the other. Guns are like sportscars, there is more than just one that we want. Just my 2 cents fellas.

 

[cobaltbomb]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Empirical data of one guy does not qualify as enough evidence to proof anything

what does qulaify is the list of glock users:
majority of US police forces
and a huge number of military and police forces worldwide

17 rounds > 8
i like my 1911 for target shooting a lot, but for a fight i would rather have a glock, more reliable, lighter, more firepower. if you would test a 1000 glocks and a 1000 1911 you would come to that conclusion too, just like the afore mentioned groups of users

i think the marines are making a dumb move there.
when it comes to personal side arms,
there is better stuff out than the M4 the 1911 or beretta`92 for sure.
why doesnt the most advanced military on the planet equip its troops with the best sidearms?
i think due to political bullshitting...

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

cobalt you bring you 17 rounds of 9mm and i'll bring 8 round of 45, all day any day. same with the argument of 30 5.56 versus 20 7.62... true sign of ignorance.

how about you have your m40a5 with 10 rounds of 7.62 and i'll take a AIAX with 5 rounds of 338LM

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobaltbomb</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 17 rounds > 8 </div></div>

17 rounds doesn't mean anything if they're not all well placed...

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

 

[cobaltbomb]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">17 rounds doesn't mean anything if they're not all well placed...</div></div>
so you suggest going back to bolt action rifles?

hey big joe out of arguments already? that was quick
instead of duelling to find out what gun is better, lets agree that we disagree

 

[O_W]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

^^Just to make sure this doesn't get buried.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

i don't need to argue, your line of reasoning is the same as every other internet commando and has no basis in actual experience.

Yes we agree to disagree

 

[cobaltbomb]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

this one is my favorite

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobaltbomb</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">17 rounds doesn't mean anything if they're not all well placed...</div></div>
so you suggest going back to bolt action rifles?</div></div>

No... I'm suggesting you learn how to actually put your bullets where you aim so you won't need 17 rounds to do a job that should take only 1.

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

A thread about the USMC fielding the 1911 again turned into a Glock vs 1911 debate?!?! Never saw that one coming...

Morphed into a 9mm Luger vs 45 ACP debate... (Shocker...)

and then devolved into a "You're an internet commando" name calling fest. Cool!

 

[Rem7]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Its all about shot placement.....I have seen people killed with a single well placed 22 rim fire and have seen people shot multiple times with 9mils,40's, and 45's. If it isn't a well placed shot, you might be able to continue to fight and survive to fight another day. Hope the shit storm settles. I have to agree with Broker and Big Joe.....

 

[Pusher591]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HathcockWannebe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A thread about the USMC fielding the 1911 again turned into a Glock vs 1911 debate?!?! Never saw that one coming...

Morphed into a 9mm Luger vs 45 ACP debate... (Shocker...)

and then devolved into a "You're an internet commando" name calling fest. Cool! </div></div>


HAHAHAHA

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Now its going to de-evolve into "One well placed shot with my .45 vs. your multiple shots from a 9mm."

 

[Turk]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

People still ride Harleys! Tough to overcome that love affair; regardless of what logic is applied.

 

[CTown137]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

As a person who has carried the M9 and who currently carries a Glock. I am just glad to see the Corps going back to the 45. I carry a Glock 21 on a daily basis and I will take 13 rounds of 45 over 15 of 9mm.

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CTown137</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As a person who has carried the M9 and who currently carries a Glock. I am just glad to see the Corps going back to the 45. I carry a Glock 21 on a daily basis and I will take 13 rounds of 45 over 15 of 9mm.</div></div>

Agreed. Just wish those .45 rounds were being delivered via Glock...

However, since they neglected to ask my advice on this move, I will wish another generation of Marines happy butt-whooping with the fine old 1911! Somehow I don't doubt that they will do just fine even with the old war horse.

-The Kid.

 

[leprechaun]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Over 100 years and still going strong!!!

 

[gits]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

I am issued a Glock 19 for work in the Army. Definitely way better than carrying an M9 and definitely a lot nicer to shoot and carry. I wouldn't mind carrying a 1911 i would indeed prefer it. But we are starting to go into the whole whats better 45 or 9mm category moving back and forth. Size of bullets are nice but shot placement has the final say. You also have to consider the fact that transitioning to your hand gun isn't also always likely on a deployment.

 

[Limedust]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Hmmm. Seems like those who choose combat pistols choose Glocks more than any brand of 1911.

I find it hard to believe that your Glocks have failed more than your 1911s . . . but what do I know?

 

[ShortRangeSniper]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

Joe,
When you use Pat Rogers to try and support your argument it makes me think this is a self portrait.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Yep that's me

 

[KYS]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

ShortRangeFailure..... do you know who you are arguing with?

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

its cool KY, i ain't nobody.

i dissed on the mighty glock evidently, lol. considering i have three of them and probably 20k rounds through a g17 i have no room to talk on what kind of combat pistol it would make.

you talk at all about a glock, scar, or KAC and people LOSE THEIR FUCKING MINDS

 

[KYS]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

I have several Glocks, and my EDC was a Glock 27. Then I went to the ol trust 357 S&W air weight.... best decision ever. They are not the best combat pistol, they are just what most people recognize and see being used.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Ok lets get this back on track the marine's picked it, stop crying in your cheerios. Good on em for picking what they liked.

 

[longguntoter]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CE1371</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is being purchased by MARSOC which is more a subsidiary of SOCOM than it is of the Marine Corps. Only MARSOC will be fielding these, not our average Marine infantry. </div></div>Man, I got all worked up for nothing? Damn.

 

[teal325]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

If forced to deliver ball ammo to an enemy - I much prefer 45 caliber ball over 9mm ball. For me, glad to see the switch to 45 caliber.

As to platform - I'll assume the USMC knows better what it needs than I do but spitballing here from the comfort of my couch - I can see the REAL advantage to having an American made pistol with American sourced parts.

Politics (unfortunately) gets in the way sometimes of the war fighting. We decide to go to war with someone, the country we're sourcing pistols or parts from may not agree and restrict companies based in THEIR country from supplying us with parts in OUR country as needed.

I've owned 2 Kimbers and 2 Colts. I'll take the Colt every day. Last Colt I purchased was 2004 and it's bank vault tight.

Another advantage of the 1911 platform, as I see it from a logistical stand point is if Colt can't meet demand, spec or there are issues there - we have MANY MANY other mfg's right here in the US that can source or make parts that require very little as far as fitting to the Colt 1911. Dropping a Springfield extractor into a Colt 1911 isn't re-inventing the wheel. Many of those other 1911 mfgs will have the parts the USMC may need to source right on the shelf. I believe the USMC has the armorer capacity to handle such a thing - given the 1911 won't be general issue.

I'm sure someone will comment that a Haas can be spooled up to make "whatever" for "whomever" but that takes time, costs more and there's no guarantee.

Can't say that about another platform. Logistics matter. Logistically - I believe the 1911 (with it's American aftermarket industry spread across over 100 manufacturers) presents a better scenario for the USMC and that factored into their decision.

 

[Tflhnd1]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Ya' gotta remember that this was not about glock v. HK v. FN v. Colt v. whatever. The USMC solicitation was for a semi-auto that fit their million in stock 1911 magazines. Kinda obvious what they were looking for.

And...Marsoc/Meusoc, Force, and some security forces (FAST), were and are already fielding 1911's and have for some time. THAT is why the solicitation came about in the first place! The USMC 2112's have been building these pistols for years from whatever surplus 1911 they could find of quality and then spec'ing out certain other parts. The solicitation was to help increase the number of weapons in the system for those operators without killing the 2112's who have a decreasing number of available parts suplies.

ALLLLLLLLL weapons can and will malfunction. If you cite problems inherent with the 1911 I am BEYOND confident the 2112's can get it worked out....top notch peeps in that group.

This is better than that...that is better than this...whatever.

I've put 10's of thousands of rounds through sigs (220/226) with little or 0 problems.

I've done 5-10k with Colt and Springer 1911 with minimal problems all stemming from bad magazines.

I've gone 10-15k with Glock and broken at least four, (seen at least 9 team members glocks go down), and even had the rail (Holds slide onto frame) break off.

EVERY GUN CAN BREAK or have failures. DONE.

As a former jarhead I'm happy for the 2112's lees work that they may have to perform. I do wish they went for the Springer Marine Corps Operator but whatever.

My Force team had M9's with knights suppressors.

I like where we are at today!

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

amen

 

[ShortRangeSniper]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ShortRangeFailure..... do you know who you are arguing with? </div></div>

Nope, but I know who Pat Rogers is, and who he is not. I do not really care whether Joe thinks I am some 500 pound acned dude somewhere in a basement with an XBox headset on.

So I will sit back and watch as you all extol on the virtues of the 1911. If I want to talk guns I can do that at work.

Peace, out.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShortRangeSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ShortRangeFailure..... do you know who you are arguing with? </div></div>

Nope, but I know who Pat Rogers is, and who he is not. I do not really care whether Joe thinks I am some 500 pound acned dude somewhere in a basement with an XBox headset on.

So I will sit back and watch as you all extol on the virtues of the 1911. If I want to talk guns I can do that at work.

Peace, out. </div></div>

Lol... That was Joe's online image of himself... he plays a LOT of Call of Duty...

Joe is in the center...

 

[ShortRangeSniper]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Yeah, the guy's face is obscured, he must be an operator.

And yes, I am kidding.

 

[Ronin1973]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

Dont think thats what their parents had in mind when they told them to get out of the basement and go out and play.

 

[thumper49802]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

finally a 1911.

 

[Turk]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tflhnd1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The USMC solicitation was for a semi-auto that fit their million in stock 1911 magazines.




</div></div>
Show me where it states that? And if that is the case; In the older MEU-SOC hand fitted pistol that is about the only part that probably is interchangable in another pistol. Some don't consider that ideal in the field!

 

[Tflhnd1]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

That parameter was in the solicitation I think maybe a year or more ago...and then cited again earlier in this post and other site threads. 2112s have been putting these guns together with parts from many different decades.they wanted similar but new it seems. Jeff

 

[shotscott]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

SEMPER fI... On better to have and not need, than need and not have

 

[baldwinskyshark]

Re: Marines to field Colt .45 1911

It's all about looking cool.