Mark7 Evolution or Revolution?

[SkyScrapin]

Anyone have hands on experience?

I like fancy stuff and I dislike spending time at the reloading bench for plinking ammo. This seems to make pretty good sense to me, but I’m not sure what all is involved with a caliber change and I’m not spending 5-10k for multiple presses.

On a sliding scale, how similar is it to a XL650 caliber change?

What type of runout would I be looking at if I decided to use it for precision loads?

Looking at it for 556, 6.5cm, 308, and 9mm.

 

[Jumper]

Following.
Was talking to an IPSC shooter who reloads LOTS of pistol (40sw) on a Dillon 650 with the Mark 7 Auto drive. He says he just starts it up and listens to it while he works nearby. Sounded like a nice setup. If the costs were similar between that setup and the Evolution I'd go with the Evolution. More die stations and easily integrated with the Auto Drive.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

Following.
Was talking to an IPSC shooter who reloads LOTS of pistol (40sw) on a Dillon 650 with the Mark 7 Auto drive. He says he just starts it up and listens to it while he works nearby. Sounded like a nice setup. If the costs were similar between that setup and the Evolution I'd go with the Evolution. More die stations and easily integrated with the Auto Drive.

The Evolution is like $3k. The kit to automate either would be an extra $1900.

I really want to get into a Mk7 for pistol stuff. I currently have a Lee Loadmaster. While its probably regarded as the shittiest press ever, its done fine for me. The caliber changeover on a lee take 1 minute and are really cheap. But the press is a bitch to run.

I'd recommend looking into the dillon 1100 as well. Is really good. You just have to understand, that you'll need to have some extra, and sometimes expensive, stuff to do change overs on the higher end presses.

 

[SkyScrapin]

I’m okay with the added expenses.

What I absolutely need to confirm is does either press have a stage 1 or 2 (before priming) primer de-crimp station. It’s not fun to decrimp on a small Dillon tool or even on my 650. I want something that’s belt or chain driven to do the manual aspect.

Once you get a 1050 or 650 and all the necessary shit, you’re so close in dollars it seems like a wash. The added bonus of the Mark7 is the gear drive on the shell holder which is way better than the BB that is in the Dillon. I get powder fucking everywhere and I have modded nearly every component of my 650. I want something that requires little to no maintenance and works right out of the box.

An added bonus is if it’s capable of running near single stage press run out numbers. That would be ideal. And if a caliber change was similar to a 650, that or even if it was slightly more time consuming, that would be totally okay. One hour or less setup for a new caliber, let her run for 30 minutes and crank out a nearly a couple thousand rounds.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Anyone have a clue as to the best place to source one of these presses? Direct may be the best option but I prefer to throw money at hide vendors.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

Yea the Mk7 is a single pass press. It will deprime, swage, and all that.

Titan reloading has them. Not sure if titan is a vendor on here. Mk7 was bought by lyman so anyone that sells lyman will likely be able to get you a mk7

Ultimate reloader did a video intro on one and has a few other videos on them.

 

[Jumper]

I know the Dillon 1050 de-crimps and I know the Mark 7 does as well. I'm just not sure exactly where it happens in the process. My first progressive press was a Lee Loadmaster, which had some issues but did OK for pistol ammo. Upgraded a long time ago to a Hornady LnL AP. Been thinking for awhile about moving up to the Mark 7 Evolution. With a bullet feeder and case feeder on the Hornady, I can make good ammo pretty fast. The only bottleneck is keeping the primer tubes filled.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Is the difference between the Evolution and the Revolution simply that one comes fully loaded and the other is pieced together? or is it the automation component?

I'm at the point where I need to call these dudes to talk through my goals. I have a feeling they're going to be taking my moneys here pretty quick. Would be a cool office ornament no less.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Let me know if the powder throw is as accurate as advertised!!
We have been looking at them for a few months now; to the point have spoken about putting the new Gen Promethues' onto them.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[SkyScrapin]

Hi,

Let me know if the powder throw is as accurate as advertised!!
We have been looking at them for a few months now; to the point have spoken about putting the new Gen Promethues' onto them.

Sincerely,
Theis

Luckily, I have a Prometheus (not s' ), but have little clue on how that would all hook up. If they already have a mount and sensor for it, I'm 100% in.

Frankly, I use my AutoTrickler more than the green jelly bean. It's faster for me. Might sell the old green machine since it aint a lease.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Small update. I had a 20m convo with the Mark 7 peeps. Some new stuff coming out so they told me to chill if I’m not in a rush. Then I asked for a fully kitted revolution with 9 and 556 dies. Well see how long I can wait.

 

[ormandj]

Small update. I had a 20m convo with the Mark 7 peeps. Some new stuff coming out so they told me to chill if I’m not in a rush. Then I asked for a fully kitted revolution with 9 and 556 dies. Well see how long I can wait.

Any ETA from them, even a rough ballpark? I'm in the market right now, but not in a huge rush (have lots of other presses).

 

[Ryridesmotox]

Regarding changeover from 9mm to 223

 

[SkyScrapin]

Any ETA from them, even a rough ballpark? I'm in the market right now, but not in a huge rush (have lots of other presses).

Didn’t ask. I’ll fire off an email and find out

 

[SkyScrapin]

8-10 weeks.

 

[ormandj]

8-10 weeks.

Appreciate it! Wonder what the new stuff is. Two to three months is no sweat and worth waiting just in case it’s something notable.

 

[BigPrince]

Regarding changeover from 9mm to 223

Watched that. Man that is an involved caliber change and if I'm looking at the parts list close to a grand per caliber. yikes.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Watched that. Man that is an involved caliber change and if I'm looking at the parts list close to a grand per caliber. yikes.

The press is like 13k fully kitted for one caliber. What's another 1k?

 

[BigPrince]

The press is like 13k fully kitted for one caliber. What's another 1k?

You have a point but an evolution autodrive fully kitted is $8k and when you think about for each caliber you're almost buying another whole dillon press just for the caliber change... to each their own. Hope it works well for you.

 

[ormandj]

Well, just had a very disappointing call with Mark 7. Nice people, but no plans for 6mm ARC or even 6.5mm Grendel. I'm not going to machine my own shell plates/caliber conversions for these presses, they aren't that nice. I'll machine upgrades to fix the few complaints I have with my Lnl APs or buy some Dillons - I can get a lot of presses at this price. I'll circle back in a few years when they've hopefully got a few more calibers available.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Yeah .. I get what you mean.

After watching that caliber change vid, it looks like a beating. I'd need to load like 5k rounds at a time to justify the time spent. Initially I was looking to load 2k rounds at a time. Need to readjust expectations now.

 

[SkyScrapin]

At the end of the day, I don't think the Mark7 is really a great precision rifle machine reloader. You will be slowed down by dropping powder charges unless you're okay with .1 variance in grain charging. I'm not. This press would be most ideal for high volume range plinking or moderate hunting loads. See little use beyond that for the regular dude.

If you want to optimize precision rifle cartridges (6arc, or whatever flavor is your thing), you're still best to look at a Dillon Progressive and dropping charges one at at time. Otherwise, single stage it.

 

[ormandj]

At the end of the day, I don't think the Mark7 is really a great precision rifle machine reloader. You will be slowed down by dropping powder charges unless you're okay with .1 variance in grain charging. I'm not. This press would be most ideal for high volume range plinking or moderate hunting loads. See little use beyond that for the regular dude.

If you want to optimize precision rifle cartridges (6arc, or whatever flavor is your thing), you're still best to look at a Dillon Progressive and dropping charges one at at time. Otherwise, single stage it.

That's the direction I'm leaning. I've got a fx120/autotrickler/autothrow combo, so I can drop charges quite rapidly for semi-precision loads. My plan was to do the same with the M7, since I wasn't going to use autodrive. I'll grab a case/bullet feeder for my Lnl APs or just kit out a 1100 or something sans the powder drop and put a funnel at that station, problem solved. Having a bullet/primer/case feed is going to be the massive time savings.

I'll stick to the co-ax (or new 419 press) + my arbor press w/ hydraulic readout for the true precision loads.

 

[CMP70306]

I plan on getting one to primarily do .300 Blackout, .223, 9mm and .45 colt though it would be nice if I could also do 6.5 Creedmoor as well. Did they give any hints as to what the new stuff coming out would be?

 

[ormandj]

I plan on getting one to primarily do .300 Blackout, .223, 9mm and .45 colt though it would be nice if I could also do 6.5 Creedmoor as well. Did they give any hints as to what the new stuff coming out would be?

When they told me they weren't interested in the cartridges I cared about, I stopped asking. Just give them a call, they were super nice and helpful on the phone. Business is business, I get it!

 

[SkyScrapin]

Coming back to this ...

Following up with Joe @ Mk7 to figure out what changes are coming for 2021. Haven't seen an announcement yet; not sure if that's how they operate.

I'm specifically looking at the Revolution in 5.56 and 7.62, and the Evolution in 9mm.

The big point of contention is brass prep. Currently using a Dillon 650, and wouldn't mind replacing it with a CP 2000. Unsure how well that setup works, but I have to assume it's a decent machine. This would be used for short action precision brass prep only. Anyone have one setup? Feedback?

 

[nmcclure]

If you talked to Joe, you know about the new automatic primer feeder coming instead of the current 2200.00 one.

Caliber changes are super expensive, as in, i can buy a new 750 for the cost. Shell plate/case slide is 200, tool head i think is 200. Powder measure is 350 for mech or 500 for digital.

Of all my presses, 2x 1100s 1x 750 and one evo pro, the mk7s is the most inaccurate. .1 is optimistic, and most owners will tell you that. They recently changed to a cast measure from billet, so not sure what other changes have been made to improve accuracy.

I use it for high volume 38sc and 40 only.

 

[nmcclure]

Oh, highly recommend not 1 pass reloading. Would do a brass prep run first otherwise you'll have too many clutch stoppages etc to really make it sing. I load at 1500 as much higher i feel starts slinging powder on my full loads. Plus it's tough keeping it fed, there is now walking away as you're always adding brass bullets or primers.

 

[SkyScrapin]

@nmcclure

To confirm, they changed the powder charge mechanically from a billet machined part to a casted part, expecting better accuracy?!

This is disheartening. I wanted the Evo to work like a machine and at least throw .1 consistently. The thought of an 1100 or 750/650 throwing a more accurate charge could sway me back to Dillon...

For the price of all the Mk7 stuff, I could easily have dedicated 1100 series machines and two processing machines for both large and small primer based stuff.

Wish there was a way to get hands on with the Rev/Ev locally before stroking a check on what could be a used car.

 

[NiteQwill]

Good friend had a Mark7 and recently sold it. He went back to loading on a 1050. He just had too many hiccups with it and spent hours and hours on the phone with Mark7 trying to figure it out. His powder charges were all over the place, they replaced the hopper 3 times! The several times I've seen it in action it stopped 10% every 100 rounds or so. This was using brand new Starline brass loading 9mm (major) with 124 JHP (we shoot USPSA Open together - so lots of rounds for matches and practice). If you follow the thread on Brian Enos, he's not the only one having issues. It ended up being a $10k mistake with about a $2.5k loss when sold (probably more with all the time lost troubleshooting it).

It lead me to stick with Dillon until something else comes along that does something similar.

 

[SkyScrapin]

@NiteQwill

Jesus. I'm glad you provided input. These things aren't cheap and they better run like a sowing machine for the price they command. Making me want to take another look at Dillon products.

I used to shoot Open, had an SVI IMM running 38sc. Such a slick setup. Miss it... But I would go 9 maj all day these days.

 

[ormandj]

Agreed, all of this feedback has been very helpful. I know what press to avoid. Thank you to everyone who's contributed feedback!

 

[cat-mechanic]

Making me want to take another look at Dillon products.

No opinion from me about the Mark 7 reloaders. I haven't seen them or used them at all.

I went with Dillon. For me it's a quick trip across town to get parts when needed. When they have them in stock.

I got the 1100, and it is sitting on a Mark 7 pro auto drive with a bullet feeder.

You can get that whole setup for $4400 from Double Alpha When they have it in stock.

I went with quick change kits for swapping conversions. Quick run down.

Quick change kit, $280
Conversion kit, $135
Dies, Depends on what you use. Say using Dillon pistol, those are mostly $75.99
Separate conversion for bullet feeder, $149
Dillon tool head stand, $50

So just shy of $700 per caliber. Again, depends on your dies and any other goodies.

I did buy a primer conversion kit, as those parts don't come with the machine or conversion kit. That was $125 and gets the primer slide, seater, swage, magazine tube.

Now, when doing rifle brass, It still takes 2 passes. Just like the Mark 7 machines, if you are trimming on the machine.

My process, rifle
1 clean brass
1. deprime on machine, station 1
2. Swage primer pocket, station 2
3. Trim with Dillon trimmer, station 4,5, or 6.
4. Rest of the way around to the catch bin.

second trip through.
1. Size die on station 1, expander ball for case mouth
2. Still swages on station 2.
3. Prime on station 3.
4. Powder on station 4.
5. Bullet feeder on station 5.
6. Seat on station 6.
7. Crimp if needed on station 7.

Pistol is just 1 trip through though.

Some people will say I numbered those wrong and say that case feed insertion is station 1. But I really don't care.

Hope that helps.

 

[nmcclure]

@nmcclure

To confirm, they changed the powder charge mechanically from a billet machined part to a casted part, expecting better accuracy?!

This is disheartening. I wanted the Evo to work like a machine and at least throw .1 consistently. The thought of an 1100 or 750/650 throwing a more accurate charge could sway me back to Dillon...

For the price of all the Mk7 stuff, I could easily have dedicated 1100 series machines and two processing machines for both large and small primer based stuff.

Wish there was a way to get hands on with the Rev/Ev locally before stroking a check on what could be a used car.

The manual evo now comes with a cast measure. Anything automated is still the billet part.

That said, I have an early machine, and there have been several updates to it, as well as the powder measure. I'm about to send in the whole press for updating, on their dime. I will say, the customer service is great.

The cost of these is where I would say, not worth it for me. At times, they have run sales, where there is a free sensor of choice, and they even did a free MBF too, and or 10% off. There is a military discount as well, so if that applies you may want to ask. It makes it tough to compare machines as they are constantly being updated, so if you go used, buy as recent as possible or an updated one. With the current boom, it seems like no specials and Lyman is trying to recoup as much as possible.

I love it, but it is not as simple as fire it up, hit a button, and go. You calibrate, you check your sensors, and then you're off. I usually load around 2-3k at a time, 4.7gr of N320. I randomly spot check measurements and powder and on average 1 in 6 will throw 4.8, and 1 in 10 will throw 4.6. I've never not made major PF at a match, and I don't shoot for a huge overage either. I'm a 169-170PF guy and I'm good.

I'm anxious to see what dillon does with ammobot now that they own it. Should be a good product one day.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

Cast vs billet for the powder measure isn't a big deal. You may want to try a different powder. I run Vectan BA-9 for 9mm minor. It meters very well and never spills out of a cast and plastic lee powder drum. I don't think a cast message would do worse.

If you're loading rifle using long extruded stick powders, it will be worse. I use IMR4064 for my 308 and it meters like shit.

 

[SkyScrapin]

This won't be for anything precision rifle. I'm primarily looking at blasting ammo in 5.56, 7.62 and 9mm. I like getting my Juan Wick on, and I'm fearful that my ammo stockpile that was wide and deep is dwindling faster than I care for it too. Loading on a 650XL is a solution that's available, but I'd rather automate a few thousand rounds at a time. I'm not shooting USPSA any more and haven't in ages, so I'm not really overly emphasizing powder throw accuracy, but if I can somewhat control that variable to a decent level of tolerance, that would be a cherry on top for me.

So my train of thought was:

Evolution Automated and Fully Loaded for 9mm
Revolution Manual and Fully Loaded for 5.56 and 7.62 (two seperate machines).
Add in a Dillon 2000 for Case Prep on precision loads, and I'm in bidnis w/ my single stage for the rest of the reloading process.

What I'm hearing is I might need to look at:

Dillon 1100 for 9mm, 5.56 and 7.62 in complete kits, automated, bullet feeder, etc.
Dillon 2000 for Case Prep.

Hmm...

 

[SkyScrapin]

I tell ya, the primer auto feed is a pretty sweet feature... That's a big draw to the Mk7 line-up. Maybe Dillon has something like that now?

 

[Jumper]

For the price of the MK7 primer auto feed, you could just get the dillon auto primer tube filler. It's one additional step compared to just dumping primers into a collator I guess but that seems like a good trade off.

 

[nmcclure]

For the price of the MK7 primer auto feed, you could just get the dillon auto primer tube filler. It's one additional step compared to just dumping primers into a collator I guess but that seems like a good trade off.

Correction, you could buy a dillon feeder AND a rl1100.

The new yet to be released on should be 550. And if they are smart, they will make an adapter to fit it to the dillon line. Or someone with a 3d printer will.

 

[cat-mechanic]

I tell ya, the primer auto feed is a pretty sweet feature... That's a big draw to the Mk7 line-up. Maybe Dillon has something like that now?

For small primers, look at the DAA primer collator. That's what I went with. Have about 15 tubes, and they refill pretty quick. I've had great results with nearly no upside down primers.

Now that I read more, maybe I'll make a stand with a curved tube to feed directly into the primer magazine of the RL1100. Alright, I have more to think about now. Where did I put that tubing bender?

 

[nmcclure]

In all reality why hasn't someone done that. All you need is the rf100 and an optical switch and a primer feed and bam, auto primer feeder.

 

[erwos]

I just bought a Mark7 Evolution for reloading blaster 223 in bulk, so I guess we'll find out how it goes. It's definitely more than an 1100, and I do expect more of a learning curve, but 10 flexible stations is just a huge advantage. I also like that I can have an officially supported autodrive for a future upgrade (because reloading isn't really a thing I find particularly fun).

 

[nmcclure]

I just bought a Mark7 Evolution for reloading blaster 223 in bulk, so I guess we'll find out how it goes. It's definitely more than an 1100, and I do expect more of a learning curve, but 10 flexible stations is just a huge advantage. I also like that I can have an officially supported autodrive for a future upgrade (because reloading isn't really a thing I find particularly fun).

Make sure and join the FB group, they have 2 factory reps on there and tons of support between all the owners.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Reviving this thread.

Anyone have anymore experience with these two machines?

Thanks

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Mark 7 just announced the Apex 10 which is going to replace the Evo.

 

[_Windrider_]

Mark 7 just announced the Apex 10 which is going to replace the Evo.

I’m prolly gonna go in on an apex. It’s so choice, especially when that new priming system is released.

 

[_Windrider_]

Reviving this thread.

Anyone have anymore experience with these two machines?

Thanks

Dave look up ultimate reloader on the tube, he has full videos on all the machines.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I’m prolly gonna go in on an apex. It’s so choice, especially when that new priming system is released.

I'm thinking about a manual Apex. I'm burned out on spending time loading commodity ammo but don't want automation.

 

[FuhQ]

I used to work with, and on, both the automated Mark 7 Pro with the Dillon Super 1050's, and the Revolution presses all day when I worked at the ammo plant. The Mark 7 Pro with the Dillon Super 1050's were amazing compared the shitty AmmoBot setups on 1050's we used for processing brass. The Mark 7 was just lightyears ahead and so much better to operate. And then we got a Revolution press, and it was a game changer...It was a beast! Then we ended up with 3 Revolutions, and I'm sure they're running more Revolutions now, even though I haven't worked there since late 2018.

As a matter of fact, I need to call and see if he's not using those Mark 7 Pro 1050 units anymore...And if not, make him an offer for my own personal use for reloading for the ARs and pistols.

 

[SkyScrapin]

I used to work with, and on, both the automated Mark 7 Pro with the Dillon Super 1050's, and the Revolution presses all day when I worked at the ammo plant. The Mark 7 Pro with the Dillon Super 1050's were amazing compared the shitty AmmoBot setups on 1050's we used for processing brass. The Mark 7 was just lightyears ahead and so much better to operate. And then we got a Revolution press, and it was a game changer...It was a beast! Then we ended up with 3 Revolutions, and I'm sure they're running more Revolutions now, even though I haven't worked there since late 2018.

As a matter of fact, I need to call and see if he's not using those Mark 7 Pro 1050 units anymore...And if not, make him an offer for my own personal use for reloading for the ARs and pistols.

Ask him if he has two