Market Curiosity Question--Barrels

[THEIS]

Hi,

Since I actually have what I am going to consider a slow Friday here at the shop, lol; my curiosity has gotten the better of me in regards to pure curiosity of the barrel market.

Primary curiosity:
How many prefits are sold in the USA on a monthly basis, lol?
What the percentage of market share that each of the custom barrels makers hold?

Secondary curiosity:
How many of the larger side prefit sellers are feeling the delivery time issues for 2021 schedule of barrels?

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Skunkworx]

Who’d have that raw data to answer that though? With that said, the last 7 barrels I’ve purchased were all of the shouldered prefit style. For me, the convenience factor is huge.

 

[PlinkIt]

Interesting question, and I'm just as curious who can actually answer this one....

As an individual I am moving towards actions that allow me to call up and have barrels delivered vs sending rifles off and then having only one smith that can make barrels for that rifle....or fiddling with barrel nuts
So
I imagine the market is moving more and more on that direction as well because it is a convenient system and with the push towards barrel burning calibers it's a huge benefit I think

 

[Sniperwannabee]

I only do shoulder pre fits as well. I ain’t shipping my gun no where

 

[theLBC]

i am curious if your barrels will have small freebore that is barely bigger than the bullets for each caliber.
for example, will your .308 rifles have the tight freebore of typical 6.5CM rifles?

 

[spife7980]

i am curious if your barrels will have small freebore that is barely bigger than the bullets for each caliber.
for example, will your .308 rifles have the tight freebore of typical 6.5CM rifles?

 

[theLBC]

if you didn't understand the question, it pertains to a recent article on 6.5 western, where they cite the .0001 freebore clearance for 6.5CM and 6.5 western, and they attribute some of the accuracy to this, stating that this keeps the round more centered when it contacts the lands, making them inherently more accurate than the "typical" .001 clearance of the freebore for typical 30-06 or .308.

 

[Highbrass]

My last 2 were Criterion Remage barrels.
Easy to install and off the shelf delivery in less than a week.
High Quality, great accuracy and affordable.

 

[Another Casual]

All prefits for me, savage or shouldered. It was a big selling point for me to pick up an Origin action (and then the second that quickly followed). Preferred barrels doing the shouldered prefits under $400 (and with many chambering options, including sherman wildcats) makes a lot of sense. If my 7mm-08 barrel shows up and shoots well, they'll get more of my business. Wish they would offer lighter sporter contours though, seems many prefit companies dont want to (Criterions and preferred barrels sporters are quite heavy, X-caliber doesnt guarantee accuracy under their #4 contour).

 

[brianf]

For the guys who have a blueprinted action, do you send the thread specs to the smith or still send the whole rifle?

 

[Steel head]

So far every barrel I’ve gotten was a savage prefit.
My next one will be a shouldered barrel.
Pre fits are so convenient.

 

[Familydude]

Have one of each. One accepts Remage and the other is a manufacturer/model that accepts widely available pre-fits. I’ve yet to swap out the barrel on that one but plan to myself when the time comes. The Remage Heavy Palma in 6.5 Creed was easy enough for me to install with the right tools, to include go and no-go gauges.

 

[moosemeat]

I have never ordered a prefit, but the next action I get will be one that people make shouldered profits for.

 

[Tnc]

I’ve ordered 4 prefits in the last 2 years. All for Impact actions. It’s too easy to swap them out at home so it’s all I will order from now on.

 

[lte82]

if you didn't understand the question, it pertains to a recent article on 6.5 western, where they cite the .0001 freebore clearance for 6.5CM and 6.5 western, and they attribute some of the accuracy to this, stating that this keeps the round more centered when it contacts the lands, making them inherently more accurate than the "typical" .001 clearance of the freebore for typical 30-06 or .308.

The clearance is a moving target depending on what bullet you are shooting. The bullet diameter of say a 224 cal bullet may actually be .2237 to .2242 depending on the manufacturer or even vary this much from lot to lot of the same bullet. I usually spec my reamers about .0005 over nominal to avoid any issues, and the barrels shoot great. .001 over is probably not bad for a field rifle.

I personally think the leade angle is more important for proper bullet alignment & accuracy.

 

[theLBC]

The clearance is a moving target depending on what bullet you are shooting. The bullet diameter of say a 224 cal bullet may actually be .2237 to .2242 depending on the manufacturer or even vary this much from lot to lot of the same bullet. I usually spec my reamers about .0005 over nominal to avoid any issues, and the barrels shoot great. .001 over is probably not bad for a field rifle.

I personally think the leade angle is more important for proper bullet alignment & accuracy.

right on, but i am talking about some rifle makers that ask the customer what bullet they want to shoot, and won't build them a rifle without the customer specifying exactly what he/she intends to shoot.

 

[lte82]

right on, but i am talking about some rifle makers that ask the customer what bullet they want to shoot, and won't build them a rifle without the customer specifying exactly what he/she intends to shoot.

Doing a custom freebore diameter with only .0001 clearance based on one lot of bullets is a losing proposition. One, there’s zero accuracy advantage. Two, if the next lot of bullets is even .0002 fatter it’s not going to work. I get setting your freebore length for a specific bullet, but not diameter.

A lot the 223 Wylde reamers have a .2240 freebore diameter. Works fine with most Sierra and Berger bullets that are .223x diameter, but grab a box of 80 or 88 ELDs that measure .2241 and you have problems. Ask me how I know, and why I had mine ground to .2245 lol.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I've had 7 barrels done in the past 2 years for a nuke and AI. All were prefits.

 

[theLBC]

Doing a custom freebore diameter with only .0001 clearance based on one lot of bullets is a losing proposition. One, there’s zero accuracy advantage. Two, if the next lot of bullets is even .0002 fatter it’s not going to work. I get setting your freebore length for a specific bullet, but not diameter.

A lot the 223 Wylde reamers have a .2240 freebore diameter. Works fine with most Sierra and Berger bullets that are .223x diameter, but grab a box of 80 or 88 ELDs that measure .2241 and you have problems. Ask me how I know, and why I had mine ground to .2245 lol.

i'm not a gunsmith, and as i said i was referring to an article (on 6.8 western by tom beckstand in the march issue of gun and ammo).
i connected this to a rifle maker that is requiring the exact bullet for the intended rifle.

 

[TxWelder35]

Precision Rifle Media has a podcast with the guys from Hawk Hill and they said in there how many barrels they made a month. Can’t remember how many it was but it’s in there

 

[brianf]

Precision Rifle Media has a podcast with the guys from Hawk Hill and they said in there how many barrels they made a month. Can’t remember how many it was but it’s in there

Can you send along what number podcast.

Thanks

 

[LeftyJason]

Can you send along what number podcast.

Thanks

161 is the only one I see where he talked to them. Dated July 30 2020

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Ain’t nobody got time for anything but prefits

 

[Weapon_50BMG]

My next action will be prefit, looking forward to the convenience of it.

 

[Supersubes]

i'm not a gunsmith, and as i said i was referring to an article (on 6.8 western by tom beckstand in the march issue of gun and ammo).
i connected this to a rifle maker that is requiring the exact bullet for the intended rifle.

Most reamer manufacturers wont/cant hold to .0001 in diameter. The 6.8 western folks can specify it, but they’re not getting it. Below are two prints, one JGS and one Manson.

 

[E. Bryant]

Most reamer manufacturers wont/cant hold to .0001 in diameter. The 6.8 western folks can specify it, but they’re not getting it. Below are two prints, one JGS and one Manson.

Exactly. If 0.0001 is the target for clearance, what is the allowable tolerance? Typically it'd be something less, correct? So now we're talking about jamming a reamer into a chamber and expecting to hold a tolerance somewhere in the range of 1-2 microns

And we haven't even yet talked about the folly of holding this clearance over a normal range of temperatures; even a perfect nominal chamber leade and a perfect nominal 0.264" bullet will go from this theoretical clearance of 0.001 to jammed tight (or twice as large) with a temperature shift of about 35°F (assuming COTE values of 6.5E-6 for stainless steel and 16.5E-6 for lead; actual values may vary depending upon the specific alloys involved).

The point, of course, is that such tiny values are not regularly achievable in practice in real-world conditions. This sounds like yet another case of a gunwriter being suckered into repeating a line of garbage from some marketing guy, which presumably is the only reason that mags such as G&A still exist, and why you won't see articles posted by these writers anywhere that they are likely to receive critical feedback.

EDIT: None of the above is intended to suggest that @THEIS cannot hold a chamber dimensional tolerance of 1-2 microns. Hell, his team can probably do that on a Monday morning or Friday afternoon. But that ain't gonna fix the other issues noted throughout this thread.

 

[Steel head]

This sounds like yet another case of a gunwriter being suckered into repeating a line of garbage from some marketing guy, which presumably is the only reason that mags such as G&A still exist, and why you won't see articles posted by these writers anywhere that they are likely to receive critical feedback.

More gun mag BS!

 

[_Windrider_]

I’m looking at chambering my own barrels here in the hopefully near future once I decide if I’m moving or staying put. I really don’t want to move a lathe if I don’t have to. But, some of the prefits are very good and very repeatable. I wouldn’t have an issue using one. But if I have the choice of custom vs prefit, I’d go custom when I could. But id also hoard prefits as well

 

[Steel head]

I’m looking at chambering my own barrels here in the hopefully near future once I decide if I’m moving or staying put. I really don’t want to move a lathe if I don’t have to. But, some of the prefits are very good and very repeatable. I wouldn’t have an issue using one. But if I have the choice of custom vs prefit, I’d go custom when I could. But id also hoard prefits as well

I’m working on doing my own as well.
Might go to the shop today to build the spiders and I have most of the necessary bits on order or in hand.

 

[brianf]

@Steel head @TacticalDillhole

Where would you guys buy blanks from?

or since your chambering your own as long as it’s a reputable company it won’t matter

 

[_Windrider_]

@Steel head @TacticalDillhole

Where would you guys buy blanks from?

or since your chambering your own as long as it’s a reputable company it won’t matter

Bartlein. Always Bartlein. But I’ll practice on some junk stock

 

[Steel head]

@Steel head @TacticalDillhole

Where would you guys buy blanks from?

or since your chambering your own as long as it’s a reputable company it won’t matter

Bugholes is an excellent source.
I’d like to try some green mountain blanks as well for some cheaper barrels.
Lots of places sell barrel blanks.

 

[Supersubes]

Bartlein. Always Bartlein. But I’ll practice on some junk stock

Coward! My first self chambered barrel was a bartlein. Dont waste your time on shit.

 

[E. Bryant]

Coward! My first self chambered barrel was a bartlein. Dont waste your time on shit.

Yep, same here.

EDIT: just remembered this isn't 100% true. While my first centerfire barrel was a Bartlein, I did a 17HMR for a buddy using a Green Mountain blank. My editors apologize for the error.

 

[Choid]

Hawk Hill has done a few prefits for me. All are great, but the last one is ridiculous. It was for my 300 wsm hunting rifle. Got it two days before the season started, after two shot to zero, it put 8 rounds in one hole during velocity testing, then I killed two deer and an elk in the next three shots, then back into the safe for next year. A years worth of work in less than a box or Hornady factory ammo. Shawn is a joy to work with as well.

 

[_Windrider_]

Coward! My first self chambered barrel was a bartlein. Dont waste your time on shit.

In my defense I’m a total schlep when it comes to metal working. I’ve only barely learned how to use a lathe and a mill. Wood I’m good with, still learning the metal stuff.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Bugholes is an excellent source.
I’d like to try some green mountain blanks as well for some cheaper barrels.
Lots of places sell barrel blanks.

+1 for Bugholes

 

[Supersubes]

In my defense I’m a total schlep when it comes to metal working. I’ve only barely learned how to use a lathe and a mill. Wood I’m good with, still learning the metal stuff.

I figured I could isolate the “me”portion of it by using a premium barrel. It worked out, barrel shot amazing.

 

[TxWelder35]

In my defense I’m a total schlep when it comes to metal working. I’ve only barely learned how to use a lathe and a mill. Wood I’m good with, still learning the metal stuff.

Just weld back the parts you mess up and try again.

 

[_Windrider_]

Just weld back the parts you mess up and try again.

. I’m worse at welding

 

[theLBC]

one of my jobs out of college we had a "machine shop" with a couple drill presses, an older mill, a lathe and other things you need like presses, brakes, belt sander and bench grinder...but i was not really trained on any of it beyond what i learned my from my dad or metal and wood shop in high school.
my boss was a flight test engineer for MD/Boeing and had started the company on the side (still going)
we built our own machines to make computer disk components, but the kinds of things we made were from aluminum plates only.
any parts that required steel or extremely tight tolerances (or we needed a lot of them), we farmed out to real machinists.

 

[Jabot]

For the guys who have a blueprinted action, do you send the thread specs to the smith or still send the whole rifle?

Send action

 

[Jabot]

That being said I only got one Remy action that I'm going to keep. I got one with a 6xc barrel on it now as soon as barrel is done I'm selling it. All other action r bighorn origin including hunting rifle. Just makes sense u can put any barrel u got on it and go. I will say the Remy action I'm keeping is super sweet, lri bolt stop , trued up. Bigger recoil lug , and is actually really smooth

 

[Johnny00K]

More gun mag BS!

Recoil Magazine ~~~~ "The 300 PRC wins against the 300 Norma as you just can't get enough gunpowder into the Norma casing to fill it up, it's too big"

I trust gun magazines about as much as I trust the news and politicians.

 

[Newbie2020]

Whut the....? Makes zero sense. 300NM is the apex predator. No knock on the 300PRC but whats he even talking about?

 

[theLBC]

Recoil Magazine ~~~~ "The 300 PRC wins against the 300 Norma as you just can't get enough gunpowder into the Norma casing to fill it up, it's too big"

I trust gun magazines about as much as I trust the news and politicians.

valid point on the actual specifications, but i believe the idea of customizing a rifle that takes specific ammo into consideration for every dimension they can control (within realistic tolerances), including freebore and distance to the lands makes sense, versus getting a rifle that takes everything and then having to try various projectiles to find the one that works best in it, assuming they have demonstrated consistent success with this.

 

[Johnny00K]

Whut the....? Makes zero sense. 300NM is the apex predator. No knock on the 300PRC but whats he even talking about?

"Norma gives up ground when it comes to case capacity. There’s a ton of room in there, and it’s impossible to fill it all up. This makes the cartridge sensitive to the rifle’s orientation when firing."

IDK, I run mine at 100% case fill.

Theis~~~ In the future I will be moving entirely to prefits, I've had nothing but great experiences with them. I have not had great experiences with gunsmiths. Prefit barrels will become more and more popular.

 

[Steel head]

Recoil Magazine ~~~~ "The 300 PRC wins against the 300 Norma as you just can't get enough gunpowder into the Norma casing to fill it up, it's too big"

I trust gun magazines about as much as I trust the news and politicians.

Recoil mag should try a case full of varget, that will fix their problems.