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Marlin?
- Thread starter Runnineh
- Start date
Ouch. I was hoping it would be this year. Those Marlin Dark series really caught my attention, but not many made it out into the wild before they shut down. For some godawful reason I have a desire to suppress a 30-30 lever gun and I refuse/ can't bring myself to cut/thread my old pre-safety Marlins.
All Ruger got was prints and rights.
They’ve got to design, tool, source, test, all that good stuff from scratch.
They’ve got to design, tool, source, test, all that good stuff from scratch.
I picked up a threaded 357 mag fro the series that preceded the dark. Black stock stainless metal. It is a very nice rifle. I imagine the 3030 would be as well.
Not having tooling can be a good thing for the end user.
We all know Remington had a ton of quality issues. If they had tooling, they could potentially fall into the same trap of quality issues.
With just the cad files / drawings, they can approach it in a whole new way. Potentially do more operations in one setup, which will allow for a more consistent datum point.
Let's say a part needs 22 different operations or cuts. You can do 3 cuts per work holding. So you have to change your parts position 7 times. Each time you change work holding you have 0.02mm of allowable error in tolerance. It can get out of whack real fast and require hand finishing to complete. (How marlin back in the day did it).
Now Ruger might say, we have new fancy machines which can do 6 cuts per holding, and the last holding position can skim cut 18 of those cuts to help align things. The total cycle time goes up by 12%, and uses one extra cutter which they don't own, so need to buy that, and the end product goes up by 13% RRP cost, however the end product is made WAY nicer and it actually works.
Good, cheap, fast. When machining you can pick 2, and the 3rd will be blown out badly.
We all know Remington had a ton of quality issues. If they had tooling, they could potentially fall into the same trap of quality issues.
With just the cad files / drawings, they can approach it in a whole new way. Potentially do more operations in one setup, which will allow for a more consistent datum point.
Let's say a part needs 22 different operations or cuts. You can do 3 cuts per work holding. So you have to change your parts position 7 times. Each time you change work holding you have 0.02mm of allowable error in tolerance. It can get out of whack real fast and require hand finishing to complete. (How marlin back in the day did it).
Now Ruger might say, we have new fancy machines which can do 6 cuts per holding, and the last holding position can skim cut 18 of those cuts to help align things. The total cycle time goes up by 12%, and uses one extra cutter which they don't own, so need to buy that, and the end product goes up by 13% RRP cost, however the end product is made WAY nicer and it actually works.
Good, cheap, fast. When machining you can pick 2, and the 3rd will be blown out badly.
Agreed, I’m sure Ruger can do it better than what they would have received.
I have high hopes for the Ruger-era Marlins. There’s a reason we all snatch up Pre-Remington guns.
I have high hopes for the Ruger-era Marlins. There’s a reason we all snatch up Pre-Remington guns.
Now that Henry came out with a side gate you might want to look at one of them. I picked up a 357/38 Henry side gate at retail. I haven't put any rounds through it yet. Don't have any 357, but do have 38 Special. Nice fit and finish. Dry firing, the trigger feels better than a stock Marlin trigger. Also, it's easier to unload.
Yeah, Henry knows they’ve got a market gap and they’re going for it. I really like Henry, I’m glad they’re moving towards servicing the modern lever gun market too.
I’ll shoot anything other than crossbows.
Shit, I still build potato guns. Purple can Aqua Net for life.
Shit, I still build potato guns. Purple can Aqua Net for life.
I've played with lever guns for years, and had a reasonably nice collection of Marlins over the years. I still have a 336 in 30-30, 1984 manuf, new unfired in the box. Just sold a MXLR 308 the other week to make way for different one
Might like a “ Marger” .45-70 to accompany my #1 in the same caliber.
I always did sort of want a pre Remington model, a buddy bought a new one 5 years ago and the stock busted at the tang. I warned him about the 1/8” gap in the inlet.
I tried to buy a Marlin 94 .45 Colt a couple years ago. Looked at two new ones. Both were turds. Bought a Henry. Like it so far.
Hopefully Ruger can un-screw Marlin.
I always did sort of want a pre Remington model, a buddy bought a new one 5 years ago and the stock busted at the tang. I warned him about the 1/8” gap in the inlet.
I tried to buy a Marlin 94 .45 Colt a couple years ago. Looked at two new ones. Both were turds. Bought a Henry. Like it so far.
Hopefully Ruger can un-screw Marlin.
Lack of a SHOT Show this year is sad. Only a few big names I've seen do a virtual roll out, even if it is announcing the .pdf of the 2021 catalogs. I thought I heard a rumor that Ruger wanted to release something this year under the Marlin name. But if Ruger has to start from square one, I do think that is a good thing. Anything that the Freedom Group owned I would be suspicious of since they only cared about short term profits, not the health of the company.
As for levers, I am more of a Winchester fan:
As for levers, I am more of a Winchester fan:
I tend to like Winchester for pistol caliber and Marlin for 45-70. My prize lever action is a 12" Marlin SBR in 45-70 that Grizzly Custom Guns did for me. My wife got it for me a couple of years ago as a birthday gift. Great little gun.
Still have my 1978 Wnchester Big Bore in 375 Win. Seldom use it anymore, but treasure it and the memories it and I have made.
I think Ruger is doing fine. The panic buys are for guns like ARs and semi auto pistols. October was the last time I was in a gun store, and the 'FUD' guns were well stocked, and the 'tacticool' shelves were bare.
Plus if Ruger has to build the tools and dies for the Marlin line, it will take them some time. Add on testing to make sure they got it right, and then make a bunch so they will be shipping when they are ready. I would rather have Ruger roll out the new Marlins when they are ready instead of racing to meet some marketing deadline. Ruger invested a lot to have the name and guns, I'm sure they do not want to have the Freedom Group reputation also.
I was really pleased to see that Ruger bought the rights to the Marlin rifles. I started shooting cowboy competitions with a Marlin Lever gun. Hoping Ruger will bring the quality back to pre Remington levels. I still have a 35 Remington and a Cowboy 45-70.
i am hoping they put out a 1894 in 357. if so, i’ll be buying one out of the gate, if for no other reason, to support the fact that they bought marlin.
i am really looking forward to seeing what they do!
i am really looking forward to seeing what they do!
I read somewhere (forum speculation) that when Remington first took over marlin, they (marlin factory) made the components, shipped to NY (Remington) and they assembled.
The problem started when there was no skilled workforce who could and would "tune" and hand fit each gun individually. Remington had a production line and there was no care or love on assembly, thus things went south.
No idea if that story is true, so use your own judgement.
The problem started when there was no skilled workforce who could and would "tune" and hand fit each gun individually. Remington had a production line and there was no care or love on assembly, thus things went south.
No idea if that story is true, so use your own judgement.
Hand fitting of a production level firearm in the 20th/21st century? LMAO! GTFO with that. A modern (and by that I mean post WWI) firearms production line, setup correctly and maintained properly should be able to churn out parts that require minimal- if any- hand fitting. You should be able to take a “random” assortment of parts and assemble a functional and reliable firearm. If you are a big manufacturer and an appreciable amount of labor is being spent hand fitting parts to make a gun functional, your tooling is probably beat to shit. I suppose that’s the flip side to the “there just weren’t any craftsmen at Remington” coin...
Correct.
People forget that old guns needed hand fitting because the machining and assembly capabilities of 70 - 100 years ago could not make parts to variation levels small enough.
Old gun designs can be made on modern machinery and with modern processes to eliminate or greatly reduce hand fitting. The flip side is that there are no component drawings showing the dimensions and tolerances needed to make the parts without the need to be fitted. You have to develop that knowledge in house and in order to develop that knowledge you have to really understand how the gun is supposed to work.
Ruger will do a good job on these, I'm pretty sure of that.
They're well run at the top also, they know what works for their business. Some things just need miracles to work, and building lever guns from scratch when your bandwidth is already exceeded by market conditions is definitely miracle territory. When they do though, they'll be better than Remington's efforts, much more supported pre and post-purchase, and much more readily available.
They're well run at the top also, they know what works for their business. Some things just need miracles to work, and building lever guns from scratch when your bandwidth is already exceeded by market conditions is definitely miracle territory. When they do though, they'll be better than Remington's efforts, much more supported pre and post-purchase, and much more readily available.
According to Ruger, they bought everything except the Marlin factory. They're hoping to have some products available in the second half of 2021. A guy from Ruger talked about it on Gun Talk Radio a few weeks ago. He talks about Marlin starting at the 34 minute mark.
Smarter than you think.
Marlin/Remington was in the toilet. They didn't want those factories, unions or bullshit.
Well this might explain why Ruger has not shipped Vaqueros since last July......prob focusing on getting the Marlin line going, as well as the typical covid excuse and AR’s and semi-autos flying off the shelf. I’m trying to find a 357 4.62“ Vaquero to go with my JM 1894 357. Making the Uberti Evil Roy tuned pistols, which are still shipping from time to time, very tempting. Some say the Ubertis are better anyway. I’m glad Ruger has the Marlin rights!
Yeah, mostly agree with you. My translation of the story would be more "a single operator assembles a whole gun from parts (like Wilson combat I think) VS a production line where the first operator assembles 2 screws, puts back in the conveyor, next operator installs the next item or 2, etc.."
You don't get to the level of operation like marlin did by being a back yard operation.
Now where's my salt shaker ?
I have 2 of the Evil Roy's. The actions are very smooth and very light triggers. Great guns.
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