MAson DIxon Series shooters - A thought

[bohem]

Is there any interest in having a hybrid stage incorporating some basic pistol usage for the match?

I can setup a stage at my match where pistol shooting is incorporated at some spots, but want some feedback before dropping that bomb on folks. My intention would be that the round count would be such that each stage could be shot with any semi-auto 9mm+ pistol and a strong-side holster that has some kind of retention.

 

[Seuss]

Yes!
Great idea Sheldon!

 

[SteveInMd]

I like it, are you thinking of doing a combined arms stage where we will have to transition from one to the other or a separate stage for the handgun only?

Steve

 

[bohem]

I was thinking a combined arms stage where the stage starts with the rifle slung and the pistol either in the holster or at the low ready. Engage pistol targets. Stow pistol on a table or reholster, then shoot the rifle targets.

 

[peaceatwar]

I'm in! I love the dueling tree!

 

[bohem]

I don't know that we have a dueling tree, I have to check with the IDPA program. If we do, great, I'll try to incorporate that, but if we don't then I'll figure something out using the steel plates that I know we do have.

 

[jonesturf]

I think its a great idea. How about a two story shoot house with a final hide position upstairs for the rifle?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Shrek183]

Be careful of what you wish for, you might get it!

I like the pistol/ rifle stage with a transition from one to the other.

Might be interesting.

 

[bohem]

Ok, I doubt that anyone does NOT have a semi-auto 9mm or larger pistol, you will need 20 rounds of pistol ammo in at least 2 magazines for the stage(s) that I have in mind. Consider this a Heads-up, if anyone DOES NOT have a 9mm or larger semi auto let me know before March 15th and I will figure out an alternate stage CoF for 6 shooters. I haven't out how to score the disparity in platforms so don't hold out for the CoF because I won't announce it until after registration is complete in the morning.

You will need a strong side holster with at least 1 level of positive retention, friction is not considered a positive retention level.


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[peaceatwar]

Ok, I doubt that anyone does NOT have a semi-auto 9mm or larger pistol, you will need 20 rounds of pistol ammo in at least 2 magazines for the stage(s) that I have in mind. Consider this a Heads-up, if anyone DOES NOT have a 9mm or larger semi auto let me know before March 15th and I will figure out an alternate stage CoF for 6 shooters. I haven't out how to score the disparity in platforms so don't hold out for the CoF because I won't announce it until after registration is complete in the morning.

You will need a strong side holster with at least 1 level of positive retention, friction is not considered a positive retention level.




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Is this for additional safety reasons?

Not that I'm opposed to purchasing a new holster as I LOVE having a reason to buy new gear but a holster that is suitable for USPSA or IDPA not being suitable for MDSS has raised my eyebrow.

 

[bohem]

Yes, safety reasons, I don't want an IWB from a carry gun being used, they tend too be much slower to re-holster and I don't want to get into a witch hunt about what is acceptable or not with noon retention holsters.

I will expand to say this instead. An IDPA or uspsa holster is acceptable, if the gun falls out of your holster at any time you get a stage DQ due to safety. Twice in the day is a full DQ.

I would suggest using a holster with positive retention for this reason

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[flounderv2]

Yes, safety reasons, I don't want an IWB from a carry gun being used, they tend too be much slower to re-holster and I don't want to get into a witch hunt about what is acceptable or not with noon retention holsters.

I will expand to say this instead. An IDPA or uspsa holster is acceptable, if the gun falls out of your holster at any time you get a stage DQ due to safety. Twice in the day is a full DQ.

I would suggest using a holster with positive retention for this reason

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Personally I would not allow an IDPA or ISPSA allowed holster. You are not wearing near as much gear which can snag a pistol nor are you crawling around on the ground, or climbing things in USPSA or IDPA which is the reason for a retention holster. IDPA basically allows any holster but a cross draw. I would suggest doing this right the first time consistent with the other Rifle Series and require a retention holster. Just my .02.

Of particular interest in the IDPA rules is below. USPSA is pretty much the same. They do not require any particular type of holster.


8.5.1.14. Retention devices may be permanently removed or permanently disabled, but not temporarily
disabled for a match.


8.5.1.18. Not Permitted:
8.5.1.18.1. Cross-draw carry
8.5.1.18.2. Shoulder holsters
8.5.1.18.3. Small of the back carry
8.5.1.18.4. Appendix carry
8.5.1.18.5. Pocket carry

 

[bohem]

Good point, I didn't know the IDPA holsters could be without retention.

I will go back to my initial statement, it must have at least 1 level of retention for safety reasons.

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[toyotatrdt]

whens registration start

 

[SteveInMd]

Registration for the first match is open. http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...2014-match-1-registration.html#post3052146rst

 

[bohem]

Shooters, below are match day details.


Arrive, Check-In & Safety - 0830hr
Begin match - 0940hr
Live Fire - 1000hr
Rifle Rounds - 45 max
Pistol Rounds - 20 max

Must have:
2 rifle mags
2 Pistol mags
Safety Glasses for pistol stages. No glasses the shooter gets DQ'd for the stage.

If using a top-loader rifle or revolver type pistol then the mags aren't an issue and the shooter won't be penalized.

Holster MUST be strong side AND at have positive retention
Shooters are strongly encouraged to have a sling

Match Fee is
$30 members ($10 goes to prize table)
$40 non-members ($10 goes to prize table)

Checks are payable to "NHRPC" though cash is preferred strongly because the prize table fee comes out of the entrance fees.

The facility has outhouses at the ranges, getting in to use the clubhouse bathroom is unlikely with the pace I've set for the match. Bring appropriate weather gear, the only way we're going to call the match is for T&L conditions. Rain, sun, mud, etc.

Bring lunch, water, and other necessities.

Looking forward to seeing you there.

 

[jbailey]

I'm even more upset I can't make this one after reading above...
"getting in to use the clubhouse bathroom is unlikely with the pace I've set for the match"
"only way we're going to call the match is for T&L conditions"
and then a whole 1 and half between check-in and live fire... what evilness does the mad engineer have planned!?!?

Best of luck guys and hope to see you all soon on the range!

-Jammer

 

[bohem]

Thanks, James. You'll be missed.


All shooters,

You must have a non-graphing calculator. A 4-function or regular scientific is acceptable however cell phones with calculator apps will not be allowed whatsoever. Be sure you have. We're going to do some old-school stuff and ballistic apps are not allowed this time.

This is an example of a 4-function calculator.

 

[AR is for Argyle]

I have a grey one that has faith based functions. Will it still work for sunday?

 

[GBanta]

Great another Math match.

 

[bohem]

Simple math, I almost said no electronics but figured that a calculator was a good idea.

 

[bohem]

Scores are below:

The ranging exercise was calculated as a series of % Difference Calculations and based upon where shooters were aligned on the shooting line (hence why I instructed shooters to line up in order).

It was based out of 80 points as follows:
Mill Score = 80-(4%diff*20+200yd%diff*20+405%diff*20+Host%diff*20)

Raw scores with a complete stage by stage are available through the Series coordinator Steve B. Don't ask me, I won't send them.



ID Name Raw Series Finish Position
11 Wissing, F 415.3 100.000% 1
13 Jones, J 394.9 95.085% 2
20 Duprey, R 388.4 93.510% 3 No Count in Series
16 Mack, S 386.3 93.020% 4
10 Koch, R 370.9 89.311% 5
4 Resslar, J 352.3 84.817% 6
7 O'Conell, S 350.0 84.261% 7
18 Bechtel, S 342.0 82.348% 8
2 Osif, Z 323.1 77.789% 9
12 Jepson, C 320.4 77.146% 10
3 Strasavich, T 303.3 73.035% 11
17 Kleban, T 284.9 68.604% 12
8 Olfati, B 283.0 68.151% 13
14 Curran, P 258.3 62.188% 14
19 Kelly, B 257.6 62.019% 15
15 Banta, G 249.5 60.082% 16
6 Beitler, C 248.4 59.806% 17
24 Ellwanger, K 227.9 54.868% 18
23 Ellwanger, R 222.9 53.664% 19
9 Peabody, R 216.6 52.148% 20
1 Sforza, J 214.9 51.749% 21
5 Bonargo, P 182.5 43.941% 22
22 Rosasco, J 170.6 41.070% 23
21 Rosasco, J 140.6 33.847% 24

 

[41mag]

Thanks for a great day of shooting. Really enjoyed the addition of the pistol stages.
Bob

 

[jonesturf]

Freddy - Congrats on the win!

Josh - Great match! Very well thought out with interesting stages that kept everyone engaged. I wish we could do this every Sunday.

 

[capnswervon]

Congrats Freddy on the win today.....the ChocoChip camo came thru again. Josh, thank you for a very interesting course of fire and I agree that the pistol portion added a nice bit of variety to the event. Looking forward to June.

The Capn'

 

[EventHorizon]

Freddy - Congrats on the win!

Josh - Great match! Very well thought out with interesting stages that kept everyone engaged. I wish we could do this every Sunday.

Agreed. A challenging and fun day, insightful and nothing better than realizing where you're weak to dial in on the follow up practice.

More!

 

[fargo007]

Wow - thank you guys! After four years of running everything it's nice to be able to just relax and shoot.

I felt like I shot well but I was really surprised. I've been on a jihad to show that a .223 DMR gun can do it and I felt like I connected with everything well except that CBS.

Josh put a great match together and I thought it was an excellent kickoff for the series. I also enjoyed the pistoleering. The Rifle CoF had some new twists in it.

Raise your hand if you are making up a close range dope card today...... LOL

--Fargo007

 

[jbailey]

Nice work out there Freddy -
you consistently shoot at the top. Consistency, in my mind, is the most valuable skill.

 

[AR is for Argyle]

Agreed, it was a nice start to the series with an enjoyable and slightly different cof.


If I may make a suggestion...

Freddy should offer a class in Shooter's Alchemy: How to make a stable position out of thin air.

 

[fargo007]

Maybe I will put an advanced or comp-specific class back on the calendar. But every time I have tried to run it I never get enough shooters to put it over the line.

The sitting stage I shot using a modified sitting position. We were on a downgrade in the grass so it was clear during the prep period a traditional one wouldn't work. My knees were way too low and my ass wasn't sitting flat on the ground when I tried it. I opened up my legs a little and let my left leg go downhill a little. That meant my left knee could offer two things: 1 - a place to put my left elbow/forearm and 2 - an additional point of contact for the rifle since I could now jam the magazine against the inside of my knee (I was shooting a .223 AR with a 30 rounder) and let the sling do the rest. Movers and pop ups I shot off the ruck. I track movers and the gun swings like buttah.

I only got one hit of six from the barricade so it looks like I gotta practice too. ;-D

 

[jbailey]

Maybe I will put an advanced or comp-specific class back on the calendar. But every time I have tried to run it I never get enough shooters to put it over the line.

I have been waiting for years for you to do the advanced class... please consider it again and I will hope that weekend is clear

 

[capnswervon]

I have been waiting for years for you to do the advanced class... please consider it again and I will hope that weekend is clear

I agree with James on this one. Had it on my calendar last year but it was scrapped for lack of interest.

The Capn'

 

[RRP II]

Ready to sign up! Check Book Open.....

 

[trebark]

I have been waiting for years for you to do the advanced class... please consider it again and I will hope that weekend is clear

+1...an advanced comp class would be good.

 

[capnswervon]

Steve/Josh/Freddy,
Are you submitting these scores/COF description to the T.R.L Gods? No one has really mentioned the League or "matches in a box" since before the new year. Any idea how or where the scores are being tabulated or if one can check status etc. It kind of seems like the idea has fallen by the wayside but I could be wrong.


The Capn'

 

[bohem]

I see no reason why it wouldn't be, however I am not handling any of that. I believe that James is doing that part.

 

[jbailey]

I see no reason why it wouldn't be, however I am not handling any of that. I believe that James is doing that part.

Sure, as the official score keeper, I can handle that, as long as I get the OK from the powers that be saying its OK.

 

[capnswervon]

Sure, as the official score keeper, I can handle that, as long as I get the OK from the powers that be saying its OK.

James/Josh,
Just to be clear, the "fallen by the wayside" comment was not towards any of you guys but instead pointing out that it seems like the whole concept of the TRL seems to have faded. Do you have a place to send results etc and if so is there a website that competitors can go to and check out scores and standings?

The Capn'

 

[SteveInMd]

The TRL never really got off the ground. As far as I know there is nowhere to send the results, if the league gets going I intend to submit our scores but for now it's a done.

Steve B.

 

[capnswervon]

Thanks for the clarification Steve.

The Capn'