Masterpiece Arms- Atrocious QC, Poor Customer Service. (Vids and Pic)

[THEIS]

Hi,

The problem with a business owner in any category of business attempting to blame miscommunication and/or lack of communication on an employee just does not make a lot of sense.

The employees email account can be mirrored so that you have direct access as to what email complaints (Based on what flags you set) are coming into your business AND direct access to how and which complaint emails have been taken care of instead of file 13'ed.

You can set alerts on internet browsers that will send you an email anytime someone types your company name and the word "issue", "problem", "customer service", "poor", etc etc in any forum, review portal, etc etc.

NOW the open products is a complete separate BUYER issue and too many people are wanting to take the walmart approach to that and think manufacturer/retailer should just eat that cost because you thought you might like something but turned out you didn't.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[scharfschutze762]

ddd for damage control. Thanks for the advice. So you understand correctly-- all this happened way before my initial post. He/They had months to do whatever they were going to, which is nothing. The owner being accommodating after being aired out on a forum doesn't really impress me nor change what happened.

I did not have any access to Phil directly, nor did I feel I should do that. I suppose I foolishly assumed that the two folks I spoke w innumerable times were theoretically handling things and speaking for the company.

The scope issue was not in the initial post as I wanted to focus on the rifle. It was secondary, though relevant, which is why I added it.

You have every right to be upset and its obvious your over the entire thing. You IMO have every right to ask for a full refund since they didnt deliver what was promised in a timely manner. Who gives a fuck the owner of a small gun company came online to explain himself and do damage control after the fact.

 

[scharfschutze762]

The problem with a business owner in any category of business attempting to blame miscommunication and/or lack of communication on an employee just does not make a lot of sense.

YES thank you.

 

[Triple D]

Hi,

The problem with a business owner in any category of business attempting to blame miscommunication and/or lack of communication on an employee just does not make a lot of sense.

Sincerely,
Theis

I don’t believe Phil was doing that. It appears that he was admitting that the fix that the employee performed wasn’t acceptable. That said, if the RMA came in and the employee implemented a fix, it likely appeared that it was fixed within the system and wouldn’t be escalated.

It appears that he’s trying to implement training to address these issues in the future.

And, while it never should have made it to a customer, I don’t believe this is a rampant issue and is likely isolated, yet, it is being responded to like this is a common occurrence.

 

[RoninISC]

Though it's clearly described above, and is a secondary issue, I'll reiterate the scope thing.

As Mr Aggie posted, the return policy states "You may return any unused or unneeded parts or accessories, with their original packaging, within 30 days from the date of invoice. Shipping is nonrefundable." They did not follow this policy. The scope was not mounted, totally NIB (and pretty much still is, unless you consider simply taking it out 'used')
In addition, given all the issues with the gun, them not doing the scope return as even a minor recompense imo is incorrigible, and was kind of the icing on the cake.

Phil has stated changes were made. time will tell if this is so. Hopefully people are not afraid to post accurate and unbiased reviews of all things here, as that what forums are for. The more data points, the better.

 

[BANG...ping]

The fit and finish on my MPA is flawless. Well machined, and no tooling marks, Alot of thought went into this chassis. However, my customer experience was not so good. Would I buy again? Yes. Hopefully customer service picks up.
Bang

 

[K.B.808]

The scope issue was not in the initial post as I wanted to focus on the rifle. It was secondary, though relevant, which is why I added it.

MPA opened up communication to you in a very public way. I’d go that route rather than to start adding on to your already existing complaint. It just does not look good doing that. IMHO

 

[K.B.808]

I don’t believe Phil was doing that. It appears that he was admitting that the fix that the employee performed wasn’t acceptable. That said, if the RMA came in and the employee implemented a fix, it likely appeared that it was fixed within the system and wouldn’t be escalated.

It appears that he’s trying to implement training to address these issues in the future.

And, while it never should have made it to a customer, I don’t believe this is a rampant issue and is likely isolated, yet, it is being responded to like this is a common occurrence.

I’d agree with this seeing as none of the two posts made by the owner attempted to put blame on communications being dropped... or part of the problem for that matter. It read like MPA has found out and knows that they aren’t firing on all cylinders but at least they seemingly want to be.

 

[RoninISC]

MPA opened up communication to you in a very public way. I’d go that route rather than to start adding on to your already existing complaint. It just does not look good doing that. IMHO

Great idea. I in fact did just that. I requested a return of the scope-- again-- still being essentially NIB. Phil replied that he considered the scope used and refused the return, again.

Almost if not every other vendor allow returns after simply being out of the box. And that's stand alone, not even after having to compensate for major multiple screw ups.
https://www.eurooptic.com/ReturnForm.aspx
https://www.opticsplanet.com/return-policy.html
https://www.cstactical.com/return-policy.aspx

Despite the hot air, it's evident where the average consumer stands on MPA's radar. Caveat emptor.

 

[K.B.808]

Return policies for MPA?

 

[Triple D]

Great idea. I in fact did just that. I requested a return of the scope-- again-- still being essentially NIB. Phil replied that he considered the scope used and refused the return, again.

Almost if not every other vendor allow returns after simply being out of the box. And that's stand alone, not even after having to compensate for major multiple screw ups.
https://www.eurooptic.com/ReturnForm.aspx
https://www.opticsplanet.com/return-policy.html
https://www.cstactical.com/return-policy.aspx

Despite the hot air, it's evident where the average consumer stands on MPA's radar. Caveat emptor.

OpticsPlanet-
OpticsPlanet will gladly fulfill an exchange whenever you are not fully satisfied with a purchase within 30 days of receipt. Please ensure the returned item is in NEW condition (i.e., not used, opened, broken or tested) and does not fall under our Return Policy Exceptions.


From CSTactical-
To be eligible for a return, your item must be unused and in the same condition that you received it. It must also be in the original packaging.

That was pulled just looking quickly at the links you provided. It does appear that you have “tested it” in your comparison.

I don’t know if trying to resolve the issue with Phil before continuing to bash MPA on a public forum would have changed his response, but I doubt it helped. It does appear that their policies are inline with numerous other vendors.

 

[K.B.808]

Phil replied that he considered the scope used and refused the return, again.

When you say “again” does that mean you tried to return it prior to bringing it up here then attempted to return it again after getting Phil to open up communications with you about your chassis?

 

[mercracing]

Dude you fingered and “used” the scope. You admit you “used” it to compare to another scope. I don’t blame MPA for not taking the scope back. Don’t buy another scope from them, sell it here or elsewhere and move on.

 

[Lesco Brandon]

I’ve emailed Lisa from MPA on different occasions and don’t get results. Phil on the other hand went so fucking far out of his way to help me fix a problem that I personally bet he would be hurt to know there was an unhappy customer out there. My folder came a little loose. I tightened it up and it’s been rock solid.

 

[K.B.808]

3. This forum is so big (over 130,000 members) that when one person mentions a problem
it's potentially heard by all members and we are their buyers, so the squeaky wheel
gets greased.

I don’t think there’s 130,000 dissatisfied MPA customers here though.

 

[Stoweit]

I’ve emailed Lisa from MPA on different occasions and don’t get results. Phil on the other hand went so fucking far out of his way to help me fix a problem that I personally bet he would be hurt to know there was an unhappy customer out there. My folder came a little loose. I tightened it up and it’s been rock solid.

Makes you wonder how Lisa keeps her job. I’m sure Phil is a great guy, but if he has to get involved every time there is a problem, seems pretty inefficient. Just saying.

 

[RoninISC]

All: Please utilize the '<Prev' in conjunction with your mouse scroll wheel for answers to these questions/criticisms. Since I know that wont happen-- yet again, Yes I immediately requested a return within no more than a week, while all the screw ups with the rifle were happening. The scope is and was in NIB mint condition. Given the issues with the gun, its the least they could have done.

To the absurd 'it was used' justification-- no respectable vendor considers a scope used unless it's mounted or rigorously tested, which mine was not; you can read that in most of the vendor policy links I provided. I've returned optics to Eurooptic under similar circumstance with full refund. This attack is just sad and desperate.

Since I know folks are simple, visual and conceptual creatures, here are some photos for you of the ragged out piece of junk in question. More links of up-close images follow.

Up close:

20190416_163822.jpg

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20190416_163940.jpg

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20190416_164058.jpg

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20190416_164148.jpg

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Any small white dot is residual styrofoam, not imperfections.

 

[K.B.808]

They said all issues the scope goes back to Kahles in Austria. \

Any attempt to contact Kahles?

 

[RoninISC]

Any attempt to contact Kahles?

lol ok. We'll pretend briefly-- based on all your posts here-- you dont have some major vested interest in MPA and aren't scrabbling to come back with any dumb thing you can think of to do damage control.

I requested the MPA return in accordance w policy during the rifle screw up period. I never said for certain it was defective, only that I disliked the CA and wanted a return. MPA simply didnt want to deal w it, and told me 'any issues it goes back to Kahles'. I indeed did then call Kahles, who said that it goes through the vendor, and that it was strange MPA told me that. Kahles told me to get back w MPA for the return, and MPA reluctantly agreed. I sent it back to MPA, still asking for a return, but they sent it to Kahles on their own volition.

Anything else? We can do this all day private.

 

[Huskydriver]

lol ok. We'll pretend briefly-- based on all your posts here-- you dont have some major vested interest in MPA and aren't scrabbling to come back with any dumb thing you can think of to do damage control.

I requested the MPA return in accordance w policy during the rifle screw up period. I never said for certain it was defective, only that I disliked the CA and wanted a return. MPA simply didnt want to deal w it, and told me 'any issues it goes back to Kahles'. I indeed did then call Kahles, who said that it goes through the vendor, and that it was strange MPA told me that. Kahles told me to get back w MPA for the return, and MPA reluctantly agreed. I sent it back to MPA, still asking for a return, but they sent it to Kahles on their own volition.

Anything else? We can do this all day private.

Lol dammmnn... hit kb with the knife hand! Shoulda told him parade rest while you were at it haha

 

[K.B.808]

I have nothing invested in MPA. Genuinely curious if you got your issues resolved.

 

[RoninISC]

I’ve emailed Lisa from MPA on different occasions and don’t get results. Phil on the other hand went so fucking far out of his way to help me fix a problem that I personally bet he would be hurt to know there was an unhappy customer out there. My folder came a little loose. I tightened it up and it’s been rock solid.

I was in contact w Lisa and... a different major MPA person not Phil. I cannot be certain they were talking w him or not. I did speak directly w Phil after this initial post about the scope though, and he's rejected it directly.

 

[RoninISC]

Lol dammmnn... hit kb with the knife hand! Shoulda told him parade rest while you were at it haha

I get a bit fired up after a certain level of bs. But sure, we'll give everyone the benefit of the doubt here.

 

[lawofsavage]

Do you still have the scope?

 

[mercracing]

Now I’m confused. Go ahead and call me slow if you want, I’m not worried. Today you say MPA took the scope and sent it to Kahles. Yesterday you were saying MPA didn’t want the scope. Please spell it out for me.

 

[Triple D]

Most open box scopes come at a discount from vendors. I doubt a vendor is going to be big on taking back items that they are going to potentially have to sell at a discount just because someone didn’t like the scope or do enough research on their end. The k624i is WELL known as having CA. Even the simplest of visual creatures knows that.

To be clear, I’m not affiliated with MPA. I agree the stock wasn’t acceptable, but the scope issue is on you. If other vendors will allow you to order and send back opened merchandise for issues that are inherent with a product line, then you should probably deal with those vendors exclusively.

 

[LA260]

Most scopes come in boxes without a shrink wrap. Isnt that the case? Technically they are all "open box". Unless it's been mounted in rings it shouldn't be considered used.

 

[Triple D]

Stickers are found on some optics. I’m not sure if it is on the Kahles.

 

[K.B.808]

Lol dammmnn... hit kb with the knife hand! Shoulda told him parade rest while you were at it haha

My interest in this story is based on the customer service failure. Failures will happen. How one (person or company) responds to those failures will either add to or take away from their integrity. Responding to being called out like this openly in such a public way can be a slippery slope. Phil did well in his response.

 

[TripleBull]

I bought a Masterpiece 338 LM rifle from MPA around the time Al became the manager of the bolt action rifle section. I ordered it with a folding stock and received a problem stock that folded while shooting on day 1 at the range. Phil and Al were good to me. Over time, I saw the need to re-torque the action screws more often than expected and decided to have Mile High bed the action. Problem solved, but not cheap. A rifle that shot .5MOA at 1K yards became a .3MOA rifle with that mod and MPA only guarantees .5MOA, and I think that's at 100 yards. So it's been a great rifle for us and Phil, AL and the rest of the crew at MPA have treated us as humans with thin wallets. Hint: call 5 minutes after they open in the morning or get Al and Phil's emails. .3 MOA feels great to an old fuck like me with failing eyesight.

 

[jacer961]

Just took possession of my new MPA in 6mm creed, opened the box looking for the test fire cartridge and target. None to be found, emailed customer service to see if this was normal, they promptly answered my email with, We DO NOT test fire rifles. I have never bought a firearm that wasn’t test fired. Looks like I’m going to have to be the test fire dummy, lol

 

[scharfschutze762]

If they dont test fire rifles how can they give a .5 MOA guarantee?

 

[K.B.808]

If they dont test fire rifles how can they give a .5 MOA guarantee?

I’d be more concerned about receiving a rifle that’s safe and free/clear of defects.
Edit: Found the accuracy guarantee. Eyes aren’t what they used to be. This just got really strange.

 

[palmettoman]

I almost bought a MPS chassis, but decided on an Envy when I learned MPA's were now being made as ambi with a plug to cover the unused bolt handle area. Love it. XLR has been great in their communication and their product is top notch. I would return it and buy elsewhere.

As a small business owner myself, I know sometimes things don't go as planned, but I wonder why the employee who installed the shim in the stock thought that was an acceptable fix. As a main integral part of the chassis, (and big selling point) there must be guidelines in place at MPA on how to resolve this. Training issue? Lack of supervision? Or just poor employee performance?

How in the world did the trigger/safety problem and loose stock ever make it out of QC in the first place?


As for the scope issue, I just don't understand how a vendor who sells online expects to sell product without giving the customer a chance to evaluate that product. If an item is returned that isn't still in "new" condition, then the retailer has the right to refuse that return and ship it back.

Easy returns help to grow an online retailer's business...ask Amazon.

 

[seansmd]

MPA positive update, after this thread I reached out to Phil and conveyed my concern and worry about ordering a chassis. His response and plan to address issues he highlighted convinced me to stick with MPA. He indicated 6-8 weeks to ship, they shipped in 4 weeks. First step looking good, I am looking forward to the final build at Spartan Tactical.

 

[RoninISC]

Just checking back here.

Now I’m confused. Go ahead and call me slow if you want, I’m not worried. Today you say MPA took the scope and sent it to Kahles. Yesterday you were saying MPA didn’t want the scope. Please spell it out for me.

It's already been spelled out several times, nothing you've said is contradictory. MPA sent the scope to Kahles under the pretense of warranty repair, since they just didnt want to deal w it (despite being perfectly within policy, and in light of their horrible rifle failures). Kahles sent it directly back to me. MPA at no time 'took the scope'-- as in accepted the return and refunded me. That is what we are talking about.

If anyone has any doubts as to the comparable service and policy backing vs other shops. Here is my EuroOptic return from a couple weeks ago. This was the other scope I used in the comparo thread. Both were utterly babied, flawless, and most definitely 'new'. Reminder, I asked MPA for the return on the Kahles way before that comparo, within a week of initially receiving it.

There is really no more room around this coffin lid for more nails, so I'll leave it at this. People will stand by their allegiances and biases regardless. All the hard evidence is given in this thread. Utilize at your capacity.

 

[RoninISC]

Just checking back here.


It's already been spelled out several times, nothing you've said is contradictory. MPA sent the scope to Kahles under the pretense of warranty repair, since they just didnt want to deal w it (despite being perfectly within policy, and in light of their horrible rifle failures). Kahles sent it directly back to me. MPA at no time 'took the scope'-- as in accepted the return and refunded me. That is what we are talking about.

If anyone has any doubts as to the comparable service and policy backing vs other shops. Here is my EuroOptic return from a couple weeks ago. This was the other scope I used in the comparo thread. Both were utterly babied, flawless, and most definitely 'new'. Reminder, I asked MPA for the return on the Kahles way before that comparo, within a week of initially receiving it.
View attachment 7070379

There is really no more room around this coffin lid for more nails, so I'll leave it at this. People will stand by their allegiances and biases regardless. All the hard evidence is given in this thread. Utilize at your capacity.

Correction, not even 'not refunded me'. I actually asked for store credit for perhaps another optic they could get me. Still no.

 

[RoninISC]

Most open box scopes come at a discount from vendors. I doubt a vendor is going to be big on taking back items that they are going to potentially have to sell at a discount just because someone didn’t like the scope or do enough research on their end. The k624i is WELL known as having CA. Even the simplest of visual creatures knows that.

To be clear, I’m not affiliated with MPA. I agree the stock wasn’t acceptable, but the scope issue is on you. If other vendors will allow you to order and send back opened merchandise for issues that are inherent with a product line, then you should probably deal with those vendors exclusively.

This is like a court battle where one side keys in on semantics. 'New' means new condition. That is the standard for virtually all vendors of everything, not the anomaly. Several policies even explicitly state new condition. The Kahles doesnt have a seal anyway. Again, if you were to examine this scope under a microscope, you would see 0 difference.

And just for reference, when I purchased the 624i (when it came out), every gee-wiz review I saw in gun rags, boards and youtube mentioned nothing about the CA. Oops, guess they were even simpler visual creatures. I had no idea until I looked through the glass.

 

[RoninISC]

And sorry just one more refocus. The MAIN issue is the utterly poor QA and customer service. Had to send this thing back twice. Very little concern from Al or Lisa; heard nothing from Phil until this thread, months later.

--Safety not functioning correctly. https://drive.google.com/open?id=14x94jTUMw-iI6U63wByXIC6tUZVVapev

--Wobbly stock. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pZtuePJnbyb4jvvXJmk3CI1Zfgp_Q9PN

Returned, came back w bad jury rig ‘fix’, still wobbly. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XqK3NXPaYMKEPu4Cx0tY1bRJ0erXf62c

--Wrong mount sent.

--Missing ordered magazine.

--Had to contact them a few times each on most of these issues; obviously not a priority.

--Never a single apology or accommodation, let alone some kind of even petty reimbursement for 3 mos of lost time and hassle.

 

[Triple D]

--Never a single apology or accommodation, let alone some kind of even petty reimbursement for 3 mos of lost time and hassle.

You mean, the apology that Phil gave on page one wasn’t good enough for you?

It sucks that you received a rifle with issues and your concerns weren’t addressed properly, but damn, you honestly seem hard to deal with.

- Two recent scopes you purchased/reviewed you’ve sent back.
-You’ve returned several scopes in the past per your own admission.
-Bringing up items that apparently have been resolved, for the purpose of just bringing them up again?
-Not sure what reviews you’ve seen, but all Gen. of the k624i have reported bad CA. Again, it’s WELL known.

 

[huntnh]

Hopefully mpa is fixed the customer service issues I'm a fan of the comp chassis I purchased from one of there dealers.
Was thinking about grabbing a barreled action from them now I'm not sure.

 

[mercracing]

Hopefully mpa is fixed the customer service issues I'm a fan of the comp chassis I purchased from one of there dealers.
Was thinking about grabbing a barreled action from them now I'm not sure.

Well they’re still selling a ton of chassis a year and a half after this post was made, so I’m willing to bet they’re putting out good work.

 

[mpk1996]

Hopefully mpa is fixed the customer service issues I'm a fan of the comp chassis I purchased from one of there dealers.
Was thinking about grabbing a barreled action from them now I'm not sure.

I wouldn't be concerned with them at all. They have a great product and one of the best reputations in the industry. Phil personally cares about his product and supports the industry. People need to understand that sometimes things do happen. somehow a product goes out and something got missed on QC. In this case it wasn't handled as well as it could be. Phil comes on and admits there was an issue. What more do you want?

People on here always talk about "all the problems" or "we are seeing this more and more". do you realize how many thousands of chassis MPA has produced? And just a couple have had "issues". So, bartlein has never had a bad barrel? defiance has never had an action go out that something was missed? triggers work always? scopes never go down or have issues? bullets are always perfect? its not realistic. I can give you examples from every stock/chassis manufacturer of similar "issues". If you got worried about it, you would have nothing you could buy

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Hopefully mpa is fixed the customer service issues I'm a fan of the comp chassis I purchased from one of there dealers.
Was thinking about grabbing a barreled action from them now I'm not sure.

IMO they have the best competition chassis on the market and Phil is just an awesome guy.

I’d go a different route on the BA though but just because I don’t really care for the actions they use and think Impact is the best and I’m not a fan of cutting any corners. Impact BA in a MPA chassis is tits. If I ever seriously get back into the PRS game (doubtful) and decide I want to run a gamer gun instead of an AI then that’s what I’ll be buying.

 

[mustang-cars]

I have 2 competition chassis. One older and one a couple years old. They work great for me. Customer service as a tad slow at teams but they always get back to you and solve any problems that arise.

 

[S3th]

Here's my experience:
I emailed Phil back and forth probably ten times over several weeks with questions ~ circa Q4 2018. When I was ready to order Phil told me to give him my number and the best time for him to call me. Phil called me at our scheduled time and spent 40 minutes going over my build and really dove deep into everything as if I was an engineer lol. Phil had my build written down and sent over to Lisa. I spoke to Lisa and placed my order. My order arrived on time and exceeded my expectations. Obviously, PRS has grown a lot as well as MPA as a brand and company. Phil has extreme accountability so I am not surprised to see him here personally addressing concerns. My only suggestion is switching from Curtis to Terminus on their builds

 

[Rpaape342]

MPA has had my back from start till now. I’d feel safe spending more of my money with them. CS has been there when needed and in fact gone to good lengths to get me sorted straight. Good people and product

 

[MrBill1954]

I have a chance to buy an MPA 65BA now, instead of ordering a complete rifle and waiting eight to ten weeks. My only concern is the rifle that is immediately available is a Switch Lug version. I am struggling with the idea of having a barrel that is installed only hand tight, with the proper barrel to action fit depending on a relatively small clamping device and a small Torx screw instead of the typical seventy five to ninety foot pounds of torque holding most barrels in place. The idea of being able to easily swap barrels sounds good, although I am not going to be changing barrels in the field where I care if it took thirty minutes or five minutes. I would like to take quick delivery of the rifle, and have the option to add another caliber with easy barrel change, but would feel better about it if I had some feedback from other shooters who have had good experiences with the switch lug set up.

 

[moaorbust]

I have spoken to Phil once before on an issue. Given the interaction I believe he does want his customers happy. Give him a call.

 

[Sticks]

I've got north of 1k rounds on my MPA 6.5 PRC with the switch lug, have not had a problem yet. Put that concern to bed. 75-90 ft# of rotational torque, vs the clamping force of a split nut (simple description). It is not unscrewing without a vice and action wrench and doing damage.