Night Vision MAWL Video with comparisons to PEQ-15, etc.

[Terry Cross]

If you fast forward through some of the first parts you will get to some comparisons between the MAWL-C1 , MAWL-DA and PEQ.
Not scientific but fair comparison when there is not a lot of similar videos out there.



./

 

[MarinePMI]

Great. Now I have something else to buy...

 

[_Windrider_]

If you’ve ever watched a garand thumb video and bought a plaid shirt after, go ahead and smash that like button.

 

[TheGerman]

meh all the way around

The output is nice but the footprint on the gun has always sucked for me.

 

[RyanScott]

I love it in my SBR but it doesn’t do it for me on an SPR.

 

[MarinePMI]

I guess the thing that piqued my interest, was it's ability to burn through existing light sources, to illuminate behind them. I'm a NV noob (and still learning a lot), but that seems like a good thing to be able to do, no? Until recently, most of my NV experience was pretty dated and with shitty, beat up, hand me down units that the Corps had in the early 90's.

 

[Terry Cross]

I guess the thing that piqued my interest, was it's ability to burn through existing light sources, to illuminate behind them. I'm a NV noob (and still learning a lot), but that seems like a good thing to be able to do, no? Until recently, most of my NV experience was pretty dated and with shitty, beat up, hand me down units that the Corps had in the early 90's.

To be honest, I didn't know that this was unique to the MAWL but it does work and very well. In L.E. courses, I show several before and after pictures of specific examples.

./

 

[WhereNow&How]

To be honest, I didn't know that this was unique to the MAWL but it does work and very well. In L.E. courses, I show several before and after pictures of specific examples.

./

Punching through Photonic Barriers is NOT unique to the MAWL. Full Powered Dbal A2's and A3's, PEQ15 LA5 and several other full powered MFLAM will all punch through Photonic Barriers and illuminate dark areas 100's of yards past those Photonic Barriers. It is simply a matter of putting stronger energy through said Photonic Barrier. No magic required. Strong Illuminator is required.

 

[MarinePMI]

Punching through Photonic Barriers is NOT unique to the MAWL. Full Powered Dbal A2's and A3's, PEQ15 LA5 and several other full powered MFLAM will all punch through Photonic Barriers and illuminate dark areas 100's of yards past those Photonic Barriers. It is simply a matter of putting stronger energy through said Photonic Barrier. No magic required. Strong Illuminator is required.

But in civilian units?

 

[WhereNow&How]

The statement made was about "unique to the MAWL" with no clarification of whether the MAWL-C or MAWL DA. Additionally, Garand Thumb had both the MAWL-C and MAWL DA in that review.

I just wanted to clarify that the MAWL line of MFLAM does NOT have some kind of "Unique" ability to punch through Photonic Barriers.

The term "Civilian Units" is a pretty subjective term. Just because current policy is that US based manufacturers of MFLAM and LAM's do not directly sell to "civilians" does not mean one cannot legally purchase or own full power units. Example: The Perst line are full power units and can be readily purchased by civilians all day every day. I can assure you that they will punch through Potonic Barriers with a Perst 3 and it has a really clean focusable illuminator.

To me, a focusable illuminator is an absolute must on a MFLAM. YMMV. The MAWL does not have a focusable illuminator.

In fact the Perst 3 is a pretty nice full powered unit that is well worth the purchase price. Having a pressure switch with a Rheostat on it that allows you to control the output power of the Illuminator and IR & Vis Pointer is a really nice unique feature rarely found out there.

Garand Thumbs review and comments were obviously slanted to push the MAWL. Other units that he did not have lined up for comparison said a lot. A lot of times its not what you say, but what you don't say. What was really funny is if you look at some of Garand Thumbs recent prior videos you will notice a Perst 3 on one of the rifles he has in his video.

Kinda strange that he has access to one but did not include that as a comparison to the MAWL line both C and DA which a discerning viewer of his videos would quickly notice

 

[WhereNow&How]

So for inquiring minds here is Garand Thumb running a Perst 3 on a January 7th video. Hmmm, wonder why that was not shown performing up against a MAWL C or DA. Taking a PEQ 15 with a lowly 30 mW Illuminator that has one of the dirtiest Illuminator beams out there and using it as a comparison MFAL is really not much of a comparison.

 

[swage2712]

So for inquiring minds here is Garand Thumb running a Perst 3 on a January 7th video. Hmmm, wonder why that was not shown performing up against a MAWL C or DA. Taking a PEQ 15 with a lowly 30 mW Illuminator that has one of the dirtiest Illuminator beams out there and using it as a comparison MFAL is really not much of a comparison.

Isn't the Perst 3 manufactured in Russia? Seeing as he had the DA on hand as well perhaps he was comparing U.S. Military grade options.
Just a guess.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Well if he was comparing US Military Grade Options, he sure got the lowest performing one on the totem pole to compare against the MAWl's.

So here is the MAWL C Illuminator spec:

IR ILLUMINATOR - SHORT RANGE 40 mW at 60° (Fire Button A), 5 mW at 60° (Fire Button B)
IR ILLUMINATOR - MID RANGE 80 mW at 16° & 50 mW at 4° (Fire Button A), 40 mW at 16° & 50 mW at 4° (Fire Button B)
IR ILLUMINATOR - LONG RANGE 50 mW at 4° (Fire Button A), N/A (Fire Button B)


So here is the PEQ 15 Illuminator spec:

OUTPUT 3.5mW (Low), 30mW (High)
DIVERGENCE 1-105 mRad
WAVELENGTH 820nm - 850nm


So the maximum MAWL C Illuminator power is 80 mW and maximum PEQ 15 Illuminator is 30 mW.

I rest my case Your Honor. Review was so biased as to even be obvious to Ray Charles.

 

[MarinePMI]

What are the specs of the Perst 3?

 

[WhereNow&How]

What are the specs of the Perst 3?

So the Perst 3 has a 500 mW max Illuminator. It will walk all over the MAWL. Plus you can buy 2 of these for the price of 1 MAWL.

• Visible green+ powered up laser ( 0,56 mW min, 18 mW max).
• IR laser (850 nm, 0,015 mW min, 20 mW max, three low power modes are eye safe, less then 0,7 mW).
• IR laser illuminator with adjustable focus (850 nm, 500 mW max).
• Power – single CR123 (included).
• Weight: 335 gram.

ZenitCo Perst-3 gen.4 dual visible/IR tactical green+ laser designator with IR illuminator | IvanTactical Store

Superior quality Russian made ZenitCo Perst-3 gen.3 dual visible green+ and IR tactical laser designator with IR illuminator. CNC machined aluminum body. Features gen.4 plug. New KV-2D switch can be mounted on M1913 rail or directly on Zenitco Basis chassis. Visible green+ powered up laser (...

ivantactical.com

This reviewer compares the Perst 3 against the MAWL, full power Dbal and even a Civi unit. So a much more informative non biased review vs Garand Thumbs obvious pushing the MAWL review.

Zenitco Perst-3 IR Laser/Illuminator




This reviewer even puts the PEQ15 LA5 B up against the Perst 3 to show you how powerful it is.

Black Phase Tactical Perst IR Laser Review & Comparison

 

[Terry Cross]

The statement made was about "unique to the MAWL" with no clarification of whether the MAWL-C or MAWL DA. Additionally, Garand Thumb had both the MAWL-C and MAWL DA in that review.

I just wanted to clarify that the MAWL line of MFLAM does NOT have some kind of "Unique" ability to punch through Photonic Barriers.

This is getting way off track for no reason.

I posted the link simply because SH members have asked about how the MAWL compared to the PEQ on multiple occasions and the end of this unscientific video showed some basic visual comparisons.

I do not think anyone should perceive any of Garand Thumb's videos as authoritative and there is no question that he specifically spotlights certain kit for his own reasons. To believe otherwise is foolish.

My comment about the MAWL having the unique ability to blow through strong light paths was a sarcastic reply to his comment.
Ability to tailor the beam size and power into the right area is what allows ANY unit with those capabilities to break through. We have worked with several that can and the MAWL in that group.

There have been shit tons of threads just on this forum about the PERST and others so I thought is was a given that everyone already knew there were other options, features and capabilities out there.

So for anyone just now viewing this thread, I would say you could bypass 75% of the posts here ( just like I suggest bypassing 75% of the video) as just a repeat of already discussed topics.

For those my initial post was intended for (see the 2nd sentence in this post)..., just bypass the theatrics of the first part of the video and glance at his few minutes of comparing the MAWL and PEQ while he is standing in the street.

For what we use it for, the MAWL does a very good job for us. It is fast, flexible and adaptable. I can select power output and beam divergence quickly with buttons to suit the need.

There are other units with more power and different layouts for sure. The MAWL-ER and IzLid are just 2 from B.E.Meyers that are more powerful. The IZLID Ultra could illuminate targets in the next state but is useless up close and is not what this thread was about.

Let your mission drive your equipment choices. Let your mission drive your training.


./

 

[WhereNow&How]

@Terry Cross, so you state: "I do not think anyone should perceive any of Garand Thumb's videos as authoritative and there is no question that he specifically spotlights certain kit for his own reasons. To believe otherwise is foolish."

Yet Garand Thumb uses the "authoritative" title of : B.E. Meyers MAWL, the best IR device for NVG's

So a well respected reviewer makes that kind of "authoritative" statement that it is the "best" yet when all data and statements are truly vetted out, well maybe that title statement should not have been made as authoritative as it was.

Critiquing any subject is how we really learn, and reasonable, respective and credible critiquing with backup data of an issue, should not be suppressed.

Enquiringly minds want to know or should want to know.

 

[Terry Cross]

@Terry Cross, so you state: "I do not think anyone should perceive any of Garand Thumb's videos as authoritative and there is no question that he specifically spotlights certain kit for his own reasons. To believe otherwise is foolish."

Yet Garand Thumb uses the "authoritative" title of : B.E. Meyers MAWL, the best IR device for NVG's

So a well respected reviewer makes that kind of "authoritative" statement that it is the "best" yet when all data and statements are truly vetted out, well maybe that title statement should not have been made as authoritative as it was.

Critiquing any subject is how we really learn, and reasonable, respective and credible critiquing with backup data of an issue, should not be suppressed.

Enquiringly minds want to know or should want to know.

I 100% agree and figured that was a given. That is exactly why I said what I did about getting into another lane on this thread. All the other tangents and conflicts to what he said has been covered profusely right here well prior to this video.

Most reviewers that have YouTube channels are going to be biased and of narrow scope.

If I thought the video was "authoritative", I would not have suggested fast forwarding through it in the opening post.


./

 

[stefan73]

Interesting, I wish we could get the high power units here. I miss my Atilla.

Terry off topic, are you shooting on the 26th?

 

[JWG]

The Perst may have more raw power, but hows the actual quality and uniformity from unit to unit, vs. BE Meyers?

 

[Takashi]

The Perst may have more raw power, but hows the actual quality and uniformity from unit to unit, vs. BE Meyers?

The MAWL-C1+ is comparable to the Perst 3. I've had both side by side, got rid of the perst because it wasnt the most confidence inspiring in terms of robustness or maintaining of zero, and switch interfacing was starting to get non-trivial.

 

[redrad]

it wasnt the most confidence inspiring in terms of robustness or maintaining of zero, and switch interfacing was starting to get non-trivial

Do you have a video of that you can share?

 

[Dvlray6]

This is getting way off track for no reason.

I posted the link simply because SH members have asked about how the MAWL compared to the PEQ on multiple occasions and the end of this unscientific video showed some basic visual comparisons.

I do not think anyone should perceive any of Garand Thumb's videos as authoritative and there is no question that he specifically spotlights certain kit for his own reasons. To believe otherwise is foolish.

My comment about the MAWL having the unique ability to blow through strong light paths was a sarcastic reply to his comment.
Ability to tailor the beam size and power into the right area is what allows ANY unit with those capabilities to break through. We have worked with several that can and the MAWL in that group.

There have been shit tons of threads just on this forum about the PERST and others so I thought is was a given that everyone already knew there were other options, features and capabilities out there.

So for anyone just now viewing this thread, I would say you could bypass 75% of the posts here ( just like I suggest bypassing 75% of the video) as just a repeat of already discussed topics.

For those my initial post was intended for (see the 2nd sentence in this post)..., just bypass the theatrics of the first part of the video and glance at his few minutes of comparing the MAWL and PEQ while he is standing in the street.

For what we use it for, the MAWL does a very good job for us. It is fast, flexible and adaptable. I can select power output and beam divergence quickly with buttons to suit the need.

There are other units with more power and different layouts for sure. The MAWL-ER and IzLid are just 2 from B.E.Meyers that are more powerful. The IZLID Ultra could illuminate targets in the next state but is useless up close and is not what this thread was about.

Let your mission drive your equipment choices. Let your mission drive your training.


./

Exactamundo! For a true c1 laser, it is clearly head of the class. For what most of us would use it for, it competes head to head with full powered units.

 

[theLBC]

recently got a dbal d2 and that performs very well (although being a poor, i cannot compare it myself to others).

 

[TheHorta]

Sorry to keep another Zombie alive, but...

Perst is a fun toy and great for low speed hogschwacking, but at the end of the day it’s not a serious tool for serious dudes (and I realize no one is saying it is). Anyone can put a high-output laser diode into a brick and brag about how much juice it pumps out. That’s where PEQs, RAIDs, NGALs and MAWLs come in. These are bombproof, reliable tools for dudes who may need to count on them with their lives. You’ll never see a Perst 3 fielded in any professional LE or MIL capacity. That’s just silly. You might say “Because... Russia!” but that’s only true in part. The Perst 3 is a large, heavy brick with highly questionable reliability and Soviet-era design and ergonomics. It’s a great AK match, and a blast for engraving your initials on the surface of the moon, but comparing it in any professional capacity isn’t even a reasonable premise, let alone a reality.

Terry deals with LE/MIL pros for a living. These guys use professional tools. Anything “Perst” will never play in that sandbox.

 

[TheGerman]

I just watched this again.

Ok kids, at 1400 when he does some weird 180 drill where he shoots, then turns, shoots again, turns the IR off, then on again and scans - thats literally NOT how any of this works.

Basic rule of NV shooting is even if you have the advantage, either fire on the move (sideways or towards target) or shoot, and instantly displace. It's a bit different indoors, but outside like that, you want to shoot, get the IR off and move at literally the same time. Until you've seen it firsthand, the fucking amount of random 'where did that come from' shooting that occurs after only you can see shit in the dark and then you send off a few rounds, is fucking eye opening.

Do not stay there after shooting to 'scan'. If they can't see you, the last thing they saw was the muzzle flash or the tiniest flash from the suppressor. They will literally just shoot at it. Hell, the old school Army training routine for night combat was to have you at the line at night, and then have targets in the distance generate a flash and you shoot at it. Yeah, don't stand there and scan for shit 20 yards away after shooting at night.

Head up, move, keep looking. Everything slows down in the dark but never stops moving.

 

[TheHorta]

I just watched this again.

Ok kids, at 1400 when he does some weird 180 drill where he shoots, then turns, shoots again, turns the IR off, then on again and scans - thats literally NOT how any of this works.

Basic rule of NV shooting is even if you have the advantage, either fire on the move (sideways or towards target) or shoot, and instantly displace. It's a bit different indoors, but outside like that, you want to shoot, get the IR off and move at literally the same time. Until you've seen it firsthand, the fucking amount of random 'where did that come from' shooting that occurs after only you can see shit in the dark and then you send off a few rounds, is fucking eye opening.

Do not stay there after shooting to 'scan'. If they can't see you, the last thing they saw was the muzzle flash or the tiniest flash from the suppressor. They will literally just shoot at it. Hell, the old school Army training routine for night combat was to have you at the line at night, and then have targets in the distance generate a flash and you shoot at it. Yeah, don't stand there and scan for shit 20 yards away after shooting at night.

Head up, move, keep looking. Everything slows down in the dark but never stops moving.

M.O.V.E.

Motionless Operators Ventilate Easily.