Rifle Scopes Measuring Optical Clarity

[gilk]

How do you judge differences in optical clarity between scopes?
I've spent countless hours reading opinions on scope glass quality and selection and I can't tell the difference in a $300 scope and a $1500 scope.

I have 3 scopes at home I tried to compare side by side: Millett TRS-1 4x16x50, SFWA SS 10X42 HD, and Leupold Mark4 LR/T 4.5x14x40 (all 30mm tubes). I put them all on 10x and looked at a 300yd target. I could not tell a difference in clarity or light transmission between them, it was in the afternoon with the sun still fairly bright. I expected the SS to be significantly better than the millett and still slightly better than the m4 but I didn't see anything. Honestly I felt that the millett was the clearest.

So how do you compare two scopes to come up with a measurable, tangible difference other than saying "oh yea that one looks a little better"?

 

[cb_tikka]

How do you judge differences in optical clarity between scopes?
I've spent countless hours reading opinions on scope glass quality and selection and I can't tell the difference in a $300 scope and a $1500 scope.

I have 3 scopes at home I tried to compare side by side: Millett TRS-1 4x16x50, SFWA SS 10X42 HD, and Leupold Mark4 LR/T 4.5x14x40 (all 30mm tubes). I put them all on 10x and looked at a 300yd target. I could not tell a difference in clarity or light transmission between them, it was in the afternoon with the sun still fairly bright. I expected the SS to be significantly better than the millett and still slightly better than the m4 but I didn't see anything. Honestly I felt that the millett was the clearest.

So how do you compare two scopes to come up with a measurable, tangible difference other than saying "oh yea that one looks a little better"?

Start with a contrast resolution target around twilight.

 

[SomeOtherGuy]

How do you judge differences in optical clarity between scopes?
I've spent countless hours reading opinions on scope glass quality and selection and I can't tell the difference in a $300 scope and a $1500 scope.

I have 3 scopes at home I tried to compare side by side: Millett TRS-1 4x16x50, SFWA SS 10X42 HD, and Leupold Mark4 LR/T 4.5x14x40 (all 30mm tubes). I put them all on 10x and looked at a 300yd target. I could not tell a difference in clarity or light transmission between them, it was in the afternoon with the sun still fairly bright. I expected the SS to be significantly better than the millett and still slightly better than the m4 but I didn't see anything. Honestly I felt that the millett was the clearest.

So how do you compare two scopes to come up with a measurable, tangible difference other than saying "oh yea that one looks a little better"?

Afternoon with bright sun is the easiest conditions for a scope, so differences will be smaller. Still, if you look at a high-contrast target, like black on white, or upper tree branches silhouetted against sky, you are likely to see strong chromatic aberrations if the scope has them, giving you one indication. Using a resolution-test target - the series of black and white bars the gradually get smaller in size - will help you determine resolution.

I would have expected the SSHD and Mark 4 to be very similar, and both somewhat ahead of the Millett. Keep in mind that a lot of the value in higher priced scopes is in durability and repeatability of adjustments, not just glass quality.

Also keep in mind that a scope has to be perfectly focused to accurately judge the glass. A high end scope that's not quite focused may not look as good as a cheaper scope that is perfectly focused.

 

[gilk]

Focus could be an issue, I've always had a terrible time adjusting parallax.
I can never seem to get the reticle and target perfectly focused and when I think I have it the next time I shoot it looks terrible and I have to start all over again.

 

[roggom]

Start with a contrast resolution target around twilight.

Exactly, here is the chart 1951 USAF, print it out and put it up at 100Y compare scopes and see which patterns you can make out. Also dont forget that the Millett has a 50mm obj compared to the 42 and 40 of the other scopes. So it may be a bit "brighter" as more light is transmitted through the scope. The Leupold has some premium glass and coatings, you will pick that up when you look at the resolution patterns. Lastly do some extensive research on the Millett, they have somewhat of a cult following. Not sure if they just dont know better or maybe want to justify their purchase, but in the end you will be disappointed.



http://www.takinami.com/yoshihiko/photo/lens_test/USAF.pdf

 

[gilk]

I'll give that try. thanks.

 

[sandwarrior]

You also need to throw in there a scope that uses Schott Glass quality. I'm not impressed with Leupold's glass. Not nearly as much as Zeiss, IOR, Meopta, and U.S. Optics. Schmidt and Bender also has outstanding glass and they grind their own. Swarovski uses crystal and it is exceptional glass. When you look through any of those and compare to the ones you have. You'll see a difference.

Also as noted, look through the glass at non-optimal times. Mid-day under clouds, anything is going to look good. Mid-day/late afternoon in the sun you'll get what someotherguy explained with the contrast. A good scope the edges will be clear, a not-so-good scope you'll see colors and distortion along the edges. Bright sunlight can bring that out in a lower quality lens.

 

[bh-ltr]

Exactly, here is the chart 1951 USAF, print it out and put it up at 100Y compare scopes and see which patterns you can make out. Also dont forget that the Millett has a 50mm obj compared to the 42 and 40 of the other scopes. So it may be a bit "brighter" as more light is transmitted through the scope. The Leupold has some premium glass and coatings, you will pick that up when you look at the resolution patterns. Lastly do some extensive research on the Millett, they have somewhat of a cult following. Not sure if they just dont know better or maybe want to justify their purchase, but in the end you will be disappointed.



http://www.takinami.com/yoshihiko/photo/lens_test/USAF.pdf

When printing this make sure you use a good printer or you'll just be doing a resolution test on the printer and not on the scopes that you want to test.

~Brett

 

[bh-ltr]

This is the type of chart used for cameras and what not. You can use this chart at closer ranges but you probably won't find a printer capable of printing it all that well. Not to mention this chart will also allow you to view the differences in quality of monitors (and graphics display applications).
http://mos.techradar.com/Review ima...lution/JPG/Full/Olympus_E-P3_25mm_f8_i200.JPG

~Brett

 

[Lowlight]

If you are gonna use a test chart, use one with colors, they have them with Red, Yellow, Blue and you'll see a difference in how they resolve colors.

Everything should be able to see black & white with little difference, but once you look at colors you see how scopes start to deviate in clarity

Don't waste your time with a black & white chart... all you are doing is a magnified eye test.

 

[CMH]

I have a similar Millett laying on my bench that is pretty clear on its own. However you start doing tests side-by-side with alpha level scopes and the differences become readily apparent. Another interesting thing I have noticed - I don't know if it is just me or what. As I get older and my eyes age and worsen (Prescription gets a little more each eye Dr. visit) I can make out more of a difference in glass clarity. Used to not be nearly as noticeable to me.

 

[SPDSNYPR]

If you are gonna use a test chart, use one with colors, they have them with Red, Yellow, Blue and you'll see a difference in how they resolve colors.

Everything should be able to see black & white with little difference, but once you look at colors you see how scopes start to deviate in clarity

Don't waste your time with a black & white chart... all you are doing is a magnified eye test.

Any chance you could post a link to a colored chart? I'm curious now in the differences of the few scopes we have.

 

[Lowlight]

Color version

 

[bh-ltr]

Strange that there aren't any green bits.

 

[Lowlight]

Also as an FYI, there is a reason there is a "big" X in these official charts is, you are checking more than one place through the optic.

If you put a single chart up and fill the sight picture with it, you are testing your eyes as magnified through the scope.

By checking on an X axis you hare checking the middle, and edges of the optical instrument. Then add in the color to see if the coatings are doing their job.

Using a single page, one chart to check, waste of time...

 

[scudzuki]

LL,
Any idea what the dimensions of the chart are? It would take one hell of a scope to resolve much of it at 100 yards if printed on 8.5" x 11".

Joe

 

[pyrofx]

True story here .
I have had a millet 4-16 on my 260 for a year or so . We shot a match where you shot at pastel geometric shapes. I could see the shapes no problem . But the blue and green looked the same . I was screwed.
Then I go to the Hide Cup . There , someone gave me a ration of .... over a 300 dollar scope on a $3,000 rifle. I said hell does almost everything I want it to . He said Ok crazy , give your address and I'll send you something.

2 weeks later , an Steiner shows up in my mailbox. Holy *&#*^balls the thing is a beast. Mounted it up on the gun and took it to the range . It was like a Bose commercial . The colors were bright , the targets clear . The pastel colors could be identified . Oh , and the knobs felt like clicks , not rubber.

So , yes . Optic coatings do make a HUGE difference !

Greg

 

[Lowlight]

They are 4ft across ... you don't print it in on an 8.5x11 unless you print each color separate and then line them up.

 

[scudzuki]

One of my clients has a plotter that will do E size plots, that's the biggest I can manage.
Should do the trick, though.
I'd like to compare my Steiner to my March and a few Bushnell ETs.
Thanks for the image.

Joe

 

[Lowlight]

You can just go to edmund scientific and buy them. They sell all sorts of test targets for viewing

 

[SPDSNYPR]

http://www.edmundoptics.com/testing...ution-test-targets/resolving-power-chart/1665

Found the thing finally.