Medium length vs long action..what am I missing.

[brianf]

As I understand it, the medium length action is becoming more popular or at least spoken about more.

The common reason I see for the medium length is a cartridge like a 6.5PRC etc.

The question I have is why not just build a long action?

Unless I’m missing it:

The mags are proprietary more or less (you can’t buy AI mags which are the standard)

It needs, special bottom metal

Most chassis designers do not have a inlet for many models

The bolt throw isnt much shorter than a long action.

It’s not a dual use action for competition like PRS where guys complain about bolt cycle time


In theory the long action can do everything a medium action but also do “long action stuff”

The long action already has mags, chassis, bottom metal galore…

Is it really so one can still shoot a regular short action length cartridge with out a different size mag?

Wouldn’t it be easier to just make a mag spacer kit for a long action than a whole new “system”

There are designers smarter than me so I prob don’t know the whole story.

Thanks

 

[Leatherlunger]

I kinda think along the same lines. I really like running sa cartridges in la platforms. I do think that the medium thing will probably grow and become easier to support as time goes by with all the big players being involved in it already. I still dont get the why but hey its cool theres more options i guess.

 

[Drew M]

My 2c would be base off a long action & have the bolt stop being what dictates the throw length like Howa does with the 1500, 308 vs 233 for example & their .223 bolt stop needs modifying for use with AI mags.
Presume their 6.5 PRC would be long action with bolt/stop etc to suit ?

So yes long action with either custom mags or spacer kits without the need for different inlets, bottom metals etc would make sense

 

[beetroot]

If folks just want to run a 65PRC, 7mmSAUM type cartridge do just want a little bit more length (3.2" COAL) its a bit over kill going to an action that may be designed up to 338 Lapua sized cartridges.
There are lots of folk who want to shot the likes of a 284win who don't want a LA and in theory it is a SA cartridge but with the pills they want to use for long range you're looking at a 3.1"ish COAL.

Medium actions have been around for a long time from many European manufacturers but there has never been a standard (like the AICS SA that everyone does), with the rise in popularity of medium length cartridges it makes sense the market is moving this way.

It won't be long before there is a standard medium/short mag action length and magazines and chassis to go with it which would be good as even the Rem LA "standard" is not particularly well supported across the industry, at least not to the same level as the AICS/Remington SA standard.

 

[brianf]

If folks just want to run a 65PRC, 7mmSAUM type cartridge do just want a little bit more length (3.2" COAL) its a bit over kill going to an action that may be designed up to 338 Lapua sized cartridges.
There are lots of folk who want to shot the likes of a 284win who don't want a LA and in theory it is a SA cartridge but with the pills they want to use for long range you're looking at a 3.1"ish COAL.

Medium actions have been around for a long time from many European manufacturers but there has never been a standard (like the AICS SA that everyone does), with the rise in popularity of medium length cartridges it makes sense the market is moving this way.

It won't be long before there is a standard medium/short mag action length and magazines and chassis to go with it which would be good as even the Rem LA "standard" is not particularly well supported across the industry, at least not to the same level as the AICS/Remington SA standard.

I’m following but your saying “overkill” but if I’m using heavy for cal bullets..I’d want as much room as I can get.

Once you break the mold why hamstring oneself.

3.1 to 3.2” is 100 thou

R700Long and short action bodies are the same diameter so it’s not a huge chunk of metal like a 338 action is.

As for mags and support I can get 300wm AI, from a hundred vendors tomorrow and almost every chassis or smith already has a inlet.

 

[Leatherlunger]

Gotta love the .284 with 180’s and a “proper” freebore still a touch long for the mediums but i can definately see how the mediums could be pretty sweet for the saum’s and prc

 

[Leatherlunger]

Maybe theyll start doing wyatt extended cuts for the mediums

 

[beetroot]

I’m following but your saying “overkill” but if I’m using heavy for cal bullets..I’d want as much room as I can get.

Once you break the mold why hamstring oneself.

3.1 to 3.2” is 100 thou

R700Long and short action bodies are the same diameter so it’s not a huge chunk of metal like a 338 action is.

As for mags and support I can get 300wm AI, from a hundred vendors tomorrow and almost every chassis or smith already has a inlet.

I don't disagree about with you at all.
Just going LA is certainly easier and does already have good market support and is more future proofed for compatability.

There are a surprising amount of cartridges that would benefit/require only. 2" of additional mag lenth and that seems to be what the medium actions are doing.
There're guys with money to burn and happy to pay whatever it takes to get the perfect rifle for whatever there purpose may be.

Personally I'm not sure I'd buy one not until there was better market support.
Who knows maybe it will take off and become the new standard for guys running these short mags or the likes of 6.5x55, 260, 284 etc to get a better COAL.

If the market support is there i can see people asking why bother with an SA if a medium action is more versatile/future proof.

 

[CMP70306]

When I put the 6.5 PRC in a long action I ran into feeding issues as the cartridge would start to dip in the AICS mags and hit the front of the feed ramp. In order to get it to work properly I put LRI mag spacers in which have their own feed ramp built in.

 

[BigPrince]

I'm building a 300wsm now on a LA Defiance Anti because I don't want to wait for a medium inlet stock and Hawkins decided not to support Defiance XM Hunter dbm/mags. If parts were more available I'd go XM to save 1.4oz but as you mention, while parts are hard to get all around, SA and LA parts or much more available than Defiance XM or LonePeak/Zermatt Mediums. Doesn't help anyone that those three couldn't get on the same page for a medium action inlet either.

 

[BreisV]

I recently built a 6.5 PRC with a Defiance Ruckus XM action, Bartlein LH gain twist barrel, and MDT ACC chassis. It is the perfect answer for the 6.5 PRC cartridge. Frankly, if I built another 6.5 Creedmoor, it would be with the XM action. The MDT XM magazines give you that extra room for longer bullets and shallow seating depths.

 

[brianf]

When I put the 6.5 PRC in a long action I ran into feeding issues as the cartridge would start to dip in the AICS mags and hit the front of the feed ramp. In order to get it to work properly I put LRI mag spacers in which have their own feed ramp built in.

Just so I’m clear,

You were using a 300wm Aics mag, and it was nose diving

You then used a PVA short action mag kit to help feeding

Thanks

 

[brianf]

I recently built a 6.5 PRC with a Defiance Ruckus XM action, Bartlein LH gain twist barrel, and MDT ACC chassis. It is the perfect answer for the 6.5 PRC cartridge. Frankly, if I built another 6.5 Creedmoor, it would be with the XM action. The MDT XM magazines give you that extra room for longer bullets and shallow seating depths.

I’m guessing there aren’t many feeding issues with regular short action rounds in MDT XM mags, like CMP has bumped into?

 

[BCX]

I built a 7 Max (7 SAUM IMP) on a LP Fusion TI long action. Running heavies for caliber, OAL 3.186-3.225 from a HS mag. No issues running from a mag in my setup. No damaged Berger hollow points as this is a hunting build. Easier for me down the round if i want to step up to a true LA cartridge.

 

[brianf]

I built a 7 Max (7 SAUM IMP) on a LP Fusion TI long action. Running heavies for caliber, OAL 3.186-3.225 from a HS mag. No issues running from a mag in my setup. No damaged Berger hollow points as this is a hunting build. Easier for me down the round if i want to step up to a true LA cartridge.

Your “thinking” is you would rather run a long action so you can go “bigger” than buying a medium so you were able to go smaller/regular short action length…

Thanks.

As the answers posts are coming I’m still trying to figure if guys wanted special package just to have something to play with …like we all do

Or

If guys want to shoot short action 90% of the time but have the ability to change a barrel and extend range for a hunt etc.

 

[BCX]

Yes, i like to have room to play with. I ran into issues w internal mag length and having to notch feed ramps w short mags years ago.

I do have a itch to build a 308 on a XM length for solids tho.

I don't run any TRUE short action cartridges anymore.

 

[CMP70306]

Just so I’m clear,

You were using a 300wm Aics mag, and it was nose diving

You then used a PVA short action mag kit to help feeding

Thanks

MAGAZINE FILLER BLOCK FOR SA MAGNUM CARTRIDGES

This solves the fundamental feeding challenges associated with running LA magazines loaded with SA magnum type cartridges such as the 6.5mm PRC/6.5MM RSAUM. These are made specifically for magazines produced by MDT and Accuracy International. They function the same, the difference is the...

www.longriflesinc.com

Mostly correct and above is what I used.

My plan was a dual purpose hunting rifle, 6.5 PRC for deer hunting then the ability to switch barrels and run the .300 Win Mag for larger game. In the end I ended up splitting the parts into two rifles and putting the 6.5 PRC barrel on a SA Archimedes while the .300 stayed on the Mausingfield.

One caveat is that I could get the 153.5 Berger to feed but that was at a COAL of 3.05”, if it got shorter they would start to hang up and my 123gr Hammers at 2.937” wouldn’t feed at all out of a 5 round mag. The 3 round mag had enough spring pressure that they would only hang up every once in a while.

 

[BCX]

Look at AI AXSR. One long action, user has the option to run 3 bolts w mag spacers to cover most cartridges on 1 action.

 

[cwinner]

I love my XM actions for hunting rifles in 7-300WSM and 6.5 PRC, like others have said the ability to load out to 3.2" is a game changer.

As for why not just use a long action.... if your going to go LA then there are better cartridges like the .280 ackley or a 6.5-06 that I'd go to and likely get a bit better performance as well..... id question why a 6.5 PRC in a long action!

Medium length actions fit the niche gap between long and short.

 

[b6graham]

 

[brianf]

MAGAZINE FILLER BLOCK FOR SA MAGNUM CARTRIDGES

This solves the fundamental feeding challenges associated with running LA magazines loaded with SA magnum type cartridges such as the 6.5mm PRC/6.5MM RSAUM. These are made specifically for magazines produced by MDT and Accuracy International. They function the same, the difference is the...

www.longriflesinc.com

Mostly correct and above is what I used.

My plan was a dual purpose hunting rifle, 6.5 PRC for deer hunting then the ability to switch barrels and run the .300 Win Mag for larger game. In the end I ended up splitting the parts into two rifles and putting the 6.5 PRC barrel on a SA Archimedes while the .300 stayed on the Mausingfield.

One caveat is that I could get the 153.5 Berger to feed but that was at a COAL of 3.05”, if it got shorter they would start to hang up and my 123gr Hammers at 2.937” wouldn’t feed at all out of a 5 round mag. The 3 round mag had enough spring pressure that they would only hang up every once in a while.

View attachment 7838842

what a moron i am ...LRI not PVA

wondering why i didnt see it on their site lol

 

[Mike Casselton]

I love my XM actions for hunting rifles in 7-300WSM and 6.5 PRC, like others have said the ability to load out to 3.2" is a game changer.

As for why not just use a long action.... if your going to go LA then there are better cartridges like the .280 ackley or a 6.5-06 that I'd go to and likely get a bit better performance as well..... id question why a 6.5 PRC in a long action!

Medium length actions fit the niche gap between long and short.

Because a 6.5-06 is old school shit for Boomers, (I'm a Boomer) and it's the latest rage to create a cartridge that duplicates something that has existed for decades, is easy to shoot, easy to make and you can actually find brass for it.

^^^Sorry for the run-on sentence.

The PRC and WSM types are near unobtanium for brass and powders.

I keep thinking about building a 6.5 PRC or a 7 or 300WSM.
Then I look at the action lengths truly needed, the cost of components if they can be found, and then reality hits.
I already have a 280, a 7 Mag and a 300 Win Mag.
What would I accomplish by building one of the above?

My only reason for building one would be for mile and 2000yd shooting.
Might as well go 300 PRC or Norma.

 

[brianf]

Because a 6.5-06 is old school shit for Boomers, (I'm a Boomer) and it's the latest rage to create a cartridge that duplicates something that has existed for decades, is easy to shoot, easy to make and you can actually find brass for it.

^^^Sorry for the run-on sentence.

The PRC and WSM types are near unobtanium for brass and powders.

I keep thinking about building a 6.5 PRC or a 7 or 300WSM.
Then I look at the action lengths truly needed, the cost of components if they can be found, and then reality hits.
I already have a 280, a 7 Mag and a 300 Win Mag.
What would I accomplish by building one of the above?

My only reason for building one would be for mile and 2000yd shooting.
Might as well go 300 PRC or Norma.

from what ive seen so far, a medium action is a action for a hunter to play around with for a new build

if i want to go farther i want the extra length of a LA or a LM action length

a long action with a mag kit seems to be the more obvious answer for a 6.5 prc

but its still early in the am, lol

 

[Chickentoast]

I think it goes Short Action, Tikka, Long Action

 

[308pirate]

If folks just want to run a 65PRC, 7mmSAUM type cartridge do just want a little bit more length (3.2" COAL) its a bit over kill going to an action that may be designed up to 338 Lapua sized cartridges.

Long action = 30-06. Not 338 Lapua.

 

[308pirate]

Because a 6.5-06 is old school shit for Boomers, (I'm a Boomer) and it's the latest rage to create a cartridge that duplicates something that has existed for decades, is easy to shoot, easy to make and you can actually find brass for it.

+1

 

[b6graham]

Long action = 30-06. Not 338 Lapua.

except in the case of Lone Peak or ARC long actions with 338 boltface

 

[beetroot]

If guys want to shoot short action 90% of the time but have the ability to change a barrel and extend range for a hunt etc.

This is the use case I think makes the most sense.
Currently a guy would have an LA to run a 6br (ish) cartridge 90% of the time, the other 10% would be a short mag that doesn't need a full LA.

Maybe there could be a future where there are AICS mags that work like Tikka mags, you can by a full length medium (3.2"), standard AICS, BR/Dasher length, and 223.

Thats my thoughts anyway.
I see that MDT does a Defiance XM inlet, if this catches on and becomes a standard offering I could see guys (myself included) buying a medium action just incase. I'm unlikely to want to shoot a 300WM class cartridge in place of a 6.5CM/6BR but a 284 or 6.5 PRC would not be out of the question, especially for hunting/field matches/NRL hunter.

 

[cwinner]

Because a 6.5-06 is old school shit for Boomers, (I'm a Boomer) and it's the latest rage to create a cartridge that duplicates something that has existed for decades, is easy to shoot, easy to make and you can actually find brass for it.

^^^Sorry for the run-on sentence.

The PRC and WSM types are near unobtanium for brass and powders.

I think we're saying the same thing here...... i use both standard 6.5-06 and the AI version's on long actions.... either one will beat the 6.5 PRC in velocity with equal bullet weights.... it's simple and it works and like you said the brass is easier to source. If your going to build on a long action there is no reason to mess with the PRC!

 

[Huskydriver]

MAGAZINE FILLER BLOCK FOR SA MAGNUM CARTRIDGES

This solves the fundamental feeding challenges associated with running LA magazines loaded with SA magnum type cartridges such as the 6.5mm PRC/6.5MM RSAUM. These are made specifically for magazines produced by MDT and Accuracy International. They function the same, the difference is the...

www.longriflesinc.com

Mostly correct and above is what I used.

My plan was a dual purpose hunting rifle, 6.5 PRC for deer hunting then the ability to switch barrels and run the .300 Win Mag for larger game. In the end I ended up splitting the parts into two rifles and putting the 6.5 PRC barrel on a SA Archimedes while the .300 stayed on the Mausingfield.

One caveat is that I could get the 153.5 Berger to feed but that was at a COAL of 3.05”, if it got shorter they would start to hang up and my 123gr Hammers at 2.937” wouldn’t feed at all out of a 5 round mag. The 3 round mag had enough spring pressure that they would only hang up every once in a while.

View attachment 7838842

Which arc action do you like better and how much does that bad boy weigh?

 

[CMP70306]

Which arc action do you like better and how much does that bad boy weigh?

If I remember correctly it sits around 7.75 pounds bare and around 13 as pictured with the Revic, bipod and Nomad L. With just the rifle and an NX8 2.5-20 it sits right at 9.75 pounds which is within an oz of my Pre-war Model 70 which was my main hunting rifle before I built that one.

As for which action I like best it’s hard to say but the Archimedes definitely has an advantage when it comes to dealing with stuck cases.

 

[CybrSlydr]

Wanted to necro this thread as I have a question.

I'm going to be building a 6.5 rifle and it was suggested to go with a medium action so I could use longer COAL bullets. I can find a medium action but medium stocks aren't as easy.

Can/Should I go with a long action to achieve this? Is it possible?

 

[spife7980]

Wanted to necro this thread as I have a question.

I'm going to be building a 6.5 rifle and it was suggested to go with a medium action so I could use longer COAL bullets. I can find a medium action but medium stocks aren't as easy.

Can/Should I go with a long action to achieve this? Is it possible?

6.5 what?
6.5 creed? No.
6.5-06? Yes.

 

[Huskydriver]

6.5 what?
6.5 creed? No.
6.5-06? Yes.

Obviously..... a 6.5×54mm Mannlicher–Schönauer right?

 

[spife7980]

Obviously..... a 6.5×54mm Mannlicher–Schönauer right?

Only if he’s got class

 

[CybrSlydr]

6.5 what?
6.5 creed? No.
6.5-06? Yes.

Creedmoor, yes.

So it's either SA and skip the longer COAL or get medium and try to find a medium stock.

Ok, thanks!

 

[spife7980]

Creedmoor, yes.

So it's either SA and skip the longer COAL or get medium and try to find a medium stock.

Ok, thanks!

Short action is fine for a creed

 

[BigPrince]

Short action is fine for a creed

This. Zero reason not to go short for creed.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Maybe getting off of the subject, but I feel like all Short actions should be actions long enough to properly accommodate the 6.5x55 and 7mm Mauser. All long actions should be long enough to accommodate the .375 H&H. The extra length and few extra ounces would hardly make a difference with the exception of mountain hunting rifles. Now, I understand that the many fellows shooting the BR series of cartridges, (BR, BRA and Dasher) would need a short action, but I suspect a Mini action would meet their needs better. Just makes sense to offer two good actions that do not cramp the space of typical cartridges then have a short, medium, long and magnum length actions.

The Remington Long Action can accommodate magnum length but other long actions can’t.

 

[brianf]

Medium actions are a solution looking for a problem.

Aftermarket kit is virtually nil

And as soon as a new cartridge or longer bullet comes out they’re “old”

 

[Chickentoast]

Creedmoor, yes.

So it's either SA and skip the longer COAL or get medium and try to find a medium stock.

Ok, thanks!

I think the gist was, manbun is gay, so when you realize this and want a SAUM, at least start with a medium. Of course, continue the logic until we're all shooting single shot RUM's @4.1"

 

[Forrest]

When I put the 6.5 PRC in a long action I ran into feeding issues as the cartridge would start to dip in the AICS mags and hit the front of the feed ramp. In order to get it to work properly I put LRI mag spacers in which have their own feed ramp built in.

I built a 6.5 cm on a rem 700 long action. I used Accurate-Mag steel 300wm magazines (.300 Win. Mag. SSSF Magazine 5 rds).
The feed lips are longer and it fed fine. I had to tweek the lips in a little. I screwed in a 308 barrel to check it and it also fed fine.

 

[Ziloooo]

I sorta agree with you tho i also don't shoot any other than short action in 6.5CM and 308.

I actaully spent some time figuring out the terminologies here, so they are all called Rem 700 footprint, but Rem 700 'factory footprint' are only about SA and LA (few varients now). Now here it comes the Medium Action, some manufacturer also called it Rem 700 footprint but it's basically Rem 700 pattern.

If I figured it correctly, we now have:

Rem 700 Pattern Actions

• Short Action:
  • Rem 700 SA
• Medium Action:
  • Lone Peak Medium = Zermatt Medium = Stiller Medium = Defiance XM Plus
  • Defiance XM
• Long Action:
  • Rem 700 LA 3.560
  • Rem 700 LA 3.715
  • Rem 700 LA 3.850 CIP

A good virtue of previous Rem 700 SA and LA is it's more like an industry standard formed spontaneously. Medium Action is not well defined and support imo, and it's more like an early stage stuff. Lone Peak's MA footprint seems to gain major popularity now.

More option = More confusion = Less choice per propriatary footprint = Higher cost you may end up paying. You know what, i really wish those action / chasis makers can form up an association that will figure out and publish 'the standard' like USB 1.0 / 2.0/ 3.0 etc, and be more manufacturers following the standard. And for now, I'd prefer stick with Rem 700 SA / LA.

 

[Drebs1]

I know this is an old thread and I’m better starting a new thread, but the people here have the answers I’m looking for but haven’t yet found …

Building a rifle off a defiance anti action with a WTO switch lug, , if you’re not familiar turns any action into a day terminus Zeus or any other quick change no action vise just hand tight and set screw ..

Where I’m caught up is I was originally going LA with a XLR mg chassis they offer all Sa,xm, and la .. being that I can just switch a barrel in under a minute and swap bolts I was envisioning going from a 300 prc to a 6.5 creedmoor.

Then I got the reality check that most likely will have feeding issues with a 6.5 creedmoor or 308 i then found the lri spacer mentioned before but the element 4 runs a aICS mag and the site says this spacer is for tikka mags..

The the question now is if I build on an xm and settle on a 7 Saum or 300 wsm(hunting ) can I still get reliable feeding on a 6.5 creedmoore or 308(target) ? Also I’ve seen accurate mag also now makes an aICS la action mag for Sa rounds .. might solve my problem

https://accurate-mag.com/shop/magazines/308-win-long-action-sssf-magazine/