Athlon Cronus comes in Mil or MOA I'll be shooting distant Steel and Montana Prairie Dogs. I have an excellent Leica rangefinder. Is there an advantage over one are the other ?
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Rifle Scopes MIL/MIL or MOA
- Thread starter Iron Worker
- Start date
No. It's just personal preference. As far as pros for both over the other, some people prefer moa because a 1/4 moa is a finer adjustment than a .1 mil, but that only becomes a usable/noticeable advantage at ELR type distances beyond a mile. The pro for the mil is everything is in perfect decimals of .1 as opposed to working with fractions, so it's easier to add and subtract dopes in your head, since it's no different than adding and subtracting integer values. Neither advantage is really meaningful to be honest. It's best to just pick whatever the people you shoot with use so you can all be talking the same language.
I changed from MOA to Mil a few years ago and can't imagine going back. With a matching reticle it's simpler and way faster. The trick if you grew up on moa like me is to stop thinking in inches. Just learn your dope in mils and realize it doesn't matter how many inches it drops.
This is one of those debates that go back and forth forever. However considering you are shooting little critters at distance I'd go MOA for the finer adjustment.
Go MIL. I stick with MOA because I had too many MOA scopes already. Should have just bit the bullet.
You might want to read this (Spoiler alert: it does NOT matter, and it is all a matter of what you are used to or want to use — don't overthink it).
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...ship-questions/6262844-moving-from-moa-to-mil
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...ship-questions/6262844-moving-from-moa-to-mil
Two different ways to get to the same place. The "MOA is finer advantage" isn't one as the difference is literally 1" at 1000 yards and you ES will show more difference. Pick the one you like, your shooting buddies use so you can all spot for each other can call corrections easily, whatever you are comfortable with or combo of the three. Makes no difference.
I am selling a moa Cronus and switching to mil simply because the guys i shoot with have mil and makes the wind calls easier for me. If it wasn't for that i would be keeping moa since it's all i ever used.
I grew up on MOA, but recently switched to MIL and have no regrets. I thought I would miss the finer increment of 1/4 MOA clicks, but I don't. MOA is nice for paper targets, but for me, the simpler "in the head" math of MIL is more practical for real world situations.
If you understand one, you understand the other. They are both angular measurements. The only difference is adjustment values.
I grew up on MOA turrets with MIL reticles. I learned as much of the math as my brain would absorb. It was this way for a long time, and I didn't switch until SWFA came out with their 5-20HD. I decided to go the MIL route, and I wish I had done so a LONG TIME AGO!! The math for MIL to me is much easier. Dollars and dimes. Biggest key to it all, get matching turrets and reticles!!
DK
DK
I use MOA for the simple reason that when I started shooting long range, I picked up a G7 BR2 it was in MOA only as far as the firing solution that it gave you. All my scopes are in MOA/MOA. If your looking at the Athlon Cronus, I think you will find the MOA version of the reticle much more appeasing to the eye than the MIL version. I just sold/traded my Athlon Cronus MOA here on the hide. It was a great scope almost a nice as my Vortex gen2 razor(thats another trolling thread). For the $, the Cronus is worth every penny. Especially if you can find one gently used around here.
You can stay with what you like but he is right. You run your data for either and dial on what you get. If you need to make a correction you look through the reticle and it tells you how much you need to dial or hold to get on target. Works the exact same with MOA and Mils.
I've never done much of ranging targets using the reticle and that is where trying to understand the difference between one and the other would make a difference, IMO. Using mil reticle and changing from inches to mils seems easy because one mil is a 36 inches at 1000 yards. If you need to calculate drop or scope adjustment it's pretty easy. If you're shooting any PRS style match then about the only way you can communicate wind calls and misses with your spotter is in mils.
Should be no reason to bring inches or any other linear measurement into it. Run your data in mils or MOA.
For ranging again both are the same but use a different constant in the formula. 27.78 for mils and 95.5 for MOA when using target sizes in inches. You can make it even easier and buy a Mildot Master which works for both Mils and MOA.
He's not trying to convince you to convert. People are pointing out that there's something inherently WRONG with the presumption that "I can understand MOA but can't understand MIL." That just doesn't make sense because neither one require the use of inches or feet or centimeters or meters. They are angular measurements and hell... they don't even require you understand THAT part of it either. Like... who thinks in minutes or arc seconds? You use MOA, right? When was the last time you pulled the trigger on your rifle and made some calculation in arc seconds? Same goes for MRAD. Nobody is sitting there with a calculator doing math with radians and Pi.
The unit of measurement doesn't matter one bit. The rational and reasonable shooter uses their reticle (as long as it matches their turrets). MOA could stand for Minute of Angus Steaks for all it matters.
The point here is, you are definitely smart enough to understand the Mil system if you already understand the MOA system. Again, I'm not trying to convert you. It's just a weird stance to take, for you to sit there and 'put your foot down' about being too dumb to understand MRAD. Because you're not. You're probably a smart guy, so don't be so hard on yourself.
To put it another way, let's pretend there's a new ruler out there that isn't set up in inches or centimeters, but in pepperonis. If someone comes along and asks you to draw a line that is 17 pepperonis long, all you'd do is count 17 pepperonis on that pepperoni ruler. Not that difficult. So it doesn't matter if your turrets are in MOA or Mil. If your dope calls for turning your turret 17 pepperonis, you just turn your turret to 17. And if your reticle shows your impact landed 2.5 pepperonis to the left, you would correct your hold or dial 2.5 pepperonis in the other direction. Easy. You do it already with MOA. No reason why MIL would be any different. Again... not. trying. to. convert. you.
At the end of the day people are going to choose whichever one they are going to choose. If you're already shooting MOA, stick with it. If your'e already shooting Mil, stick with it. But if you're just starting out and you need to pick one, most people would say go with the one everyone else in your shooting circle uses, that way you're all speaking the same language. Is there ever a reason to switch? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. But I think it's important, as an actual marksman, to understand BOTH. And that is incredibly easy to do because... drum roll please... if you understand one, you already understand the other.
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MOA is the old guard(Hunting). MIL this the new Hipster(Military) and the Industry is/has been slanting that way now for some time.
MILs and MOA as long as turrets and reticles match will get you to the same place. But if you do comps or LR hunting where it might important to do drops on the fly, under time pressure then MILs is both easier and faster. Also for LR shooting up to and over a mile, a scope with Mil adjustments can get you there where as the same model of scope in MOA will not.
As an illustration, here are the drops in 100 yd increments out to 1000 yds for the popular Hornady 6.5 mm 140 gr BTHP launched at 2800 fps at sea level:
In Mils
100 - 0.0
200 - 0.4
300 - 1.1
400 - 1.9
500 - 2.8
600 - 3.7
700 - 4.8
800 - 6.0
900 - 7.3
1KY- 8.8
In MOA
100 - 0.0
200 - 1.5
300 - 3.8
400 - 6.5
500 - 9.5
600 - 12.9
700 - 16.6
800 - 20.6
900 - 25.2
1KY- 30.2
So which set of numbers is easier to memorize and interpolate in-between: MILs or MOA??
The next thing you have to consider is clicks available in your turret per turn. It is very common to have 100 click turrets. That is 100 clicks per turn. In MILs that will get you 10 MILs or 100 0.1 MIL clicks. Fashion that same turret in MOA with the same 100 clicks you get 25 MOA per turn or 100 0.25 MOA Clicks.
So in the example above to reach 1K yards it would be accomplished in less than one turn of a 100 click MIL turret , where as with an MOA turret you would be on the second full turn to reach 1K yards.
And if your turret is turn limited as many turrets today are, you will less total vertical adjustment with a MOA turret, than with a MIL turret. Which can be very important if you shoot long range, as you want all the internal elevation you can get.
As an illustration, here are the drops in 100 yd increments out to 1000 yds for the popular Hornady 6.5 mm 140 gr BTHP launched at 2800 fps at sea level:
In Mils
100 - 0.0
200 - 0.4
300 - 1.1
400 - 1.9
500 - 2.8
600 - 3.7
700 - 4.8
800 - 6.0
900 - 7.3
1KY- 8.8
In MOA
100 - 0.0
200 - 1.5
300 - 3.8
400 - 6.5
500 - 9.5
600 - 12.9
700 - 16.6
800 - 20.6
900 - 25.2
1KY- 30.2
So which set of numbers is easier to memorize and interpolate in-between: MILs or MOA??
The next thing you have to consider is clicks available in your turret per turn. It is very common to have 100 click turrets. That is 100 clicks per turn. In MILs that will get you 10 MILs or 100 0.1 MIL clicks. Fashion that same turret in MOA with the same 100 clicks you get 25 MOA per turn or 100 0.25 MOA Clicks.
So in the example above to reach 1K yards it would be accomplished in less than one turn of a 100 click MIL turret , where as with an MOA turret you would be on the second full turn to reach 1K yards.
And if your turret is turn limited as many turrets today are, you will less total vertical adjustment with a MOA turret, than with a MIL turret. Which can be very important if you shoot long range, as you want all the internal elevation you can get.
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