Rifle Scopes Mil Mil Scopes that are SFP?

[BadBowtie03]

Hey guys, im new to all this and im trying to figure out my options for a new scope. My Falcon went dead and im returning it so now im back at the beginning. I was considering trying the TRS-1 because it is mil mil, but are there any other scopes out there that are mil mil and sfp? The reason i ask is because of price. I originally bought the FM because it was FFP mil mil and a darn good deal. but its broke and now im scared of them. So i was thinking about going with the trs to see if that would work for me, or go with the SS 3-9x ffp mil mil.

But I had been thinking are there any other offerings that are mil mil and sfp? because I figured that would be cheaper. But does that make any sense at all? can you still match the clicks on a sfp with whatever magnification and it match the reticle? I know you need ffp for ranging with the mildot, but are there any other advantages? thanks guys

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Mil Mil Scopes that are SFP?

Nightforce.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Mil Mil Scopes that are SFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Badbowtie03</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But I had been thinking are there any other offerings that are mil mil and sfp? because I figured that would be cheaper. But does that make any sense at all? can you still match the clicks on a sfp with whatever magnification and it match the reticle? I know you need ffp for ranging with the mildot, but are there any other advantages? thanks guys </div></div>

Not quite sure what you mean. You can range with ANY scope that is equipped with mil-dots. The difference is, with FFP, you can range at any power that the dots are discernible. For example, on my Falcon 4-14, the dots are useless at 4 or 5 power because they appear so small.

With my TRS-1, I can range at the normal 10X or at 5x (half mil value).
Ypu are more restricted with SFP scopes, however, it is MUCH easier to see the retcle at low power with a SFP scope.

 

[decodeddiesel]

Re: Mil Mil Scopes that are SFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nightforce. </div></div>

This, or wait for the Viper PST. Still won't compair to a NF.

 

[mclevela]

Re: Mil Mil Scopes that are SFP?

+1 on the Nightforce

 

[scotharr]

Re: Mil Mil Scopes that are SFP?

It's easy to say NF and that's what I'd say....but its nowhere in the same price range. So, for a more practical recommendation....

I'd suggest focus less on all the bells and whistles and focus more on quality. A lot of crappy companies advertise lots of features to sucker in the unknowing. Instead focus on companies known to make quality at an affordable price. Find a modest magnification, SFP, 40mm OBJ scope that is well built Weaver, Sightron, Leupold, Nikon are a couple companies that can fit this bill.

 

[BadBowtie03]

Re: Mil Mil Scopes that are SFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Not quite sure what you mean. You can range with ANY scope that is equipped with mil-dots. The difference is, with FFP, you can range at any power that the dots are discernible. For example, on my Falcon 4-14, the dots are useless at 4 or 5 power because they appear so small.

With my TRS-1, I can range at the normal 10X or at 5x (half mil value).
Ypu are more restricted with SFP scopes, however, it is MUCH easier to see the retcle at low power with a SFP scope. </div></div>

I know you can range only at a set power with SFP scopes... what i was curious is with mil turrets, are they useful at the other power settings? For example if in the reticle you are one mil off, so you dial one mil on your turrets. Can you only do that at the set 10x power? or can you do it all the time? thats what im confused about.

So, are there any other SFP mil mil scopes that are less than 800 bucks?

 

[Lindy]

Re: Mil Mil Scopes that are SFP?

Scopes adjust the point of impact by changing the angle of the line of sight of the scope with respect to the line of the bore.

So, a turret changes that angle according to the turret measurement.

Now, with a SFP scope, if you see a difference between the point of impact and the point of aim which you measure with the reticle, you can only dial a correction which matches the reticle <span style="font-weight: bold">IF</span> the scope was dialed to the one power at which the reticle is correct for mil measurements.

That's because the reticle in an SFP scope has different values depending on the power. But the turrets are always changing the point of aim by the nominal amount, which is always the same amount.

 

[BadBowtie03]

Re: Mil Mil Scopes that are SFP?

Ok yeah I understand. So obviously the turrets are changing it the same amount... but the TRS1 would have to be on the correct magnification for the adjustment to do what you want inside the reticle. Does that make sense?

Basically the TRS1 in my opinion might not be worth it because you can only use the reticle while ranging on the correct magnification AND you can only adjust with the Mil knobs CORRECTLY with what you want to happen with the bullet impact on that same setting.

So in theory, you need FFP to take advantage of the whole mil mil thing.

Right?

 

[eleaf]

Re: Mil Mil Scopes that are SFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's easy to say NF and that's what I'd say....but its nowhere in the same price range. So, for a more practical recommendation....

I'd suggest focus less on all the bells and whistles and focus more on quality. A lot of crappy companies advertise lots of features to sucker in the unknowing. Instead focus on companies known to make quality at an affordable price. Find a modest magnification, SFP, 40mm OBJ scope that is well built Weaver, Sightron, Leupold, Nikon are a couple companies that can fit this bill. </div></div>

There are 2 new Bushnell FFP scopes that are reasonable. Contact Liberty as he has them.

 

[Basher]

Re: Mil Mil Scopes that are SFP?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Badbowtie03</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok yeah I understand. So obviously the turrets are changing it the same amount... but the TRS1 would have to be on the correct magnification for the adjustment to do what you want inside the reticle. Does that make sense?

Basically the TRS1 in my opinion might not be worth it because you can only use the reticle while ranging on the correct magnification AND you can only adjust with the Mil knobs CORRECTLY with what you want to happen with the bullet impact on that same setting.

So in theory, you need FFP to take advantage of the whole mil mil thing.

Right?

</div></div>

1) No. With any scope, regardless of what reticle type you have (mildot/duplex/post, FFP/SFP, etc) or what power it's set to, if you adjust a turret up four clicks, the reticle (and thus point of aim, or POA) will move that amount. So a .1mil/click turret moved 4 clicks up will adjust you POA .4mil. An .25MOA/click turret will move the POA 1MOA, etc.

2) An SFP reticle can only used for ranging at the magnification it was set for at the factory UNLESS you've mapped it out for proper use at other powers. There are threads elsewhere on how to do this. Once done, you'll have to mark the magnification ring and look at it while adjusting it if you wish to mil a target at a different power.

3) Mil/mil refers to the reticle and turrets both using common adjustments or measures. A mil/mil scope has a mil-based reticle and turrets that use milliradians for measurments. A MOA/MOA scope has a MOA-based reticle and turrets that adjust in minutes of angle. A Mil/MOA scope generally has a mil-based reticle and MOA-based turrets. As these measurements are different, a conversion must be done for your MOA turret adjustments to match your mil reticle. What plane the reticle is in has nothing to do with how the reticle pattern and the turrets interact. A mil/mil scope can be either FFP or SFP and work fine. The issue is that with an SFP scope, if the reticle is set for accurate ranging at 10x and you're at 6x, holding over the target by 1.5mil won't actually be changing you POI by 1.5mil since the reticle isn't setup for accurate hold overs at 6x. With an FFP scope you can, as the reticle changes size in accordance with the target.

That help any?

 

[Lindy]

Re: Mil Mil Scopes that are SFP?

A FFP scope allows you to use the reticle for ranging, wind holds, holdovers, holdunders, and moving target leads at any magnification.

A SFP scope does not.

It's pretty easy to calibrate a SFP scope for use at half power. See:

http://www.arcanamavens.com/LBSFiles/Shooting/Downloads/ScopeChecking/

But being able to use the reticle accurately at any power is handy.

 

[BadBowtie03]

Re: Mil Mil Scopes that are SFP?

Thanks guys that helped!