Rifle Scopes Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

[NikolaiS]

I'm new to this board, learning about marksmanship and trying to soak up as much info as I can...

The entire MOA and Mil Dot math required zero a rifle has been almost voodoo to me, (figuring out distance conversions off target to clicks) until I ran across Lowlight's article on using a Mil-based scope here: http://www.snipershide.com/node/1

Everything suddenly became clear to me. No more conversions. Just something so clear and easy as 2.3 mils = 23 clicks, .5 mils = 5 clicks. Or just as easily, holding off as far. Wow. Simple, straightforward. No math!

Except..

Now I'm looking at my scope (Super Sniper 16x42) and the reticle is Mil Dot, but my dial is 1/4 MOA. And now I'm thinking CRAP. Am I screwed on using that nice and simple zeroing system?

Thanks,

Nik

 

[Lindy]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

Yes. When you measure something in your reticle, and want to adjust the scope by that much, you'll have to multiply the number of mils by 3.438 to know how many MOA to adjust.

That's why scopes which adjust in the same system the reticle is graduated in are preferable, whether that's milliradians or MOA.

 

[CoryT]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

if you are in a hurry, You can just call it 14 clicks to a mil, 7 clicks to .5 mil. Subtract 1 click every 3 mils and you'll be within a 1/4 MOA. I find that simpler than the multiplication.

Now, that's not as neat as .5 = 5 and 1 = 10, but it's not terribly difficult either.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

Look at the Falcons if you don't mind a variable that is still proving itself for matching adjustments in the "affordable" category

As CoryT pointed out-its not too hard to convert mils seen to moa adjustments. Its been the way everyone did it for over 2 decades. While matching adjustments are agreeably superior, I think a SS scope and time spent shooting is better for a new guy than waiting until he can afford the latest and greatest!

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

BTW Nik, welcome, thanks for filling out your profile, and come out and shoot the local matches!

 

[NikolaiS]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

Ah ok, that little 14 click conversion is easy to understand, maybe not as immediately intuitive as the 1:10 ratio, but I least I can get past those formulae.

Right now, I'm using one of those AccuShot cards to determine clicks to zero, and it "works" but I feel somehow that I'm doing something without knowing what I'm doing.

I'd like to be able to just look at a target, and just know, "ok 7 clicks left" and BANG. That helpful conversion sounds good, and I'll give it a try. Thanks!

Just to be clear, when you say "Subtract 1 click every 3 mils", that would be 41 clicks at 3 mils, 82 clicks at 6...?

On a side note, I'm scratching my head now why a manufacturer would mix Mil/MOA. Any sound reasons for that kind of setup?

Nik

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

It's really not that hard once you get used to it.

However the Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA setup is better because it works independent of range.

 

[NikolaiS]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW Nik, welcome, thanks for filling out your profile, and come out and shoot the local matches! </div></div>

Thanks. When I feel I've upped my skills to some point where I'm not disrespecting competitors with my amateurism, I might! Working on it...

Right now, I'm practicing at Ben Avery. Would like to get out to the desert to get past 200yds.

Nik

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

Use 1 MOA for every .25 Mil in your reticle... so in the end 1 Mil will equal 4 MOA. it will be quick easy and close enough for government work.

No real conversion necessary, see a splash or read an impact at .5 Mils, simply dial on 2 MOA to your scope, .75 Mils dial 3 MOA, etc.

Its down, its dirty, but its effective and works well under field conditions

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW Nik, welcome, thanks for filling out your profile, and come out and shoot the local matches! </div></div>

Thanks. When I feel I've upped my skills to some point where I'm not disrespecting competitors with my amateurism, I might! Working on it...

Right now, I'm practicing at Ben Avery. Would like to get out to the desert to get past 200yds.

Nik </div></div>

You won't be disrespecting noone!! Come on out, Phoenix Rod and Gun Club (7th Ave at the base of south mountain 08/01 0645), rifle/ammo and good attitude is all that's needed! We'll give you dope if you need it and you will learn all sorts of good stuff!! Everyone starts somewhere!!!

 

[Lindy]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

What he said. Not only will you learn more in the competition, but you'll give the other competitors a chance to give you tips so you can improve faster. Competition is a great teacher.

 

[NikolaiS]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use 1 MOA for every .25 Mil in your reticle... so in the end 1 Mil will equal 4 MOA. </div></div>

Ok that looks really easy to grasp. Thanks!

Nik

 

[IrishArrow]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's really not that hard once you get used to it.

However the Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA setup is better because it works independent of range.</div></div>

+1

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

Geez, Frank has you guys like robots on the "independent of range" line. Mils and MOA both work independent of range. If your shot is 3/4 mil low in your old mil/moa scope, dial 3 moa correction and re-engage. sheesh.......
Matching reticle and adjustments is just alot faster because there's no conversion.

 

[chad3]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

Sobr,
But the Mil/Mil is the S*$T. No really, once you match, you dial on the scope and fire. I've forgotten come ups at the range, and it has taken me exactly one shot to figure them out. Are you out of the game, of course not, but the new wave is very sweet.
Chad

 

[Lindy]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Matching reticle and adjustments is just alot faster because there's no conversion.</div></div>

If you're a paper puncher who shoots on square ranges, then speed doesn't matter.

If you shoot in tactical competitions, or, more important, on two way ranges, then speed matters very much. So, for those folks, "just" is a word that doesn't belong in that sentence.

 

[CoryT]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

Nik, you've got the 14 click conversion right. It's a bit more precise than LL using 1 MOA to .25 mil, but for a normal field application I doubt anyone would notice.

Since I started back in the Dark Ages when a mil adjustment was simply unknown, that's what I've used so for me it seems pretty simple.

I actually very seldom use a dialed on correction after a shot, I just hold and send the followup. To me, the match of knob to reticle is a minor feature. If I've got it, that's nice, if not, no big deal. I do like all my reticles to match, so everything I own is mil based, no MOA based reticles in my safe.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

I wasn't questioning the premise, just pointing out that range has nothing to do with either setup.

I gree fully Chad, and my primary optics match. But I have to keep the mil/moa conversion fresh in my head as my backup scope is a 16XMK4 that has the old school mismatch going on. I'm stuck dealing with it until the PR 5-25 wait's over. When its back on the shelf it'll probably be up for trade for a Falcon and an Aimpoint/Eotech.

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Mil Reticle, MOA dial?

no big deal at all, like Coryt alluded to, mil/moa is the classic old school standard that many still go by.
basically you'll want to range w/ your retical in mils obviously, got your range, now go to your range card/dope table. This info will be in moa (or alteast elevation in moa) and you're there...need a correction? then use LL 4 moa to a rough mil formula for speed. Its just nice having one measurement of angle, not having to convert, and having a turret to adjust perfectly w/ the ret...just makes life a little easier.
ps..find the "MIL/MOA which is better?" thread, but use the potty first. Maybe someone can link that here.