I need help. I am deciding on my next scope. I've narrowed it to either the minox or the razor. I've looked through the razor and like it. love the scope. never seen a minox and have only ever heard absolute great things about it. which would you get/recommend and why? i know there are other scopes in the very broad price gap between the scopes so i'm open to hearing about those also. however these are the two i would be willing to purchase as of right now. purpose for the scope is to be on a 300 win mag shot out to 2000. i know ffp scopes aren't typically the most desired for long range but this gun has more than 1 role and will be used considerably inside 1500 yards and in a "tactical" sense. and no, i'm not worried about weight. i've humped a lot heavier than an extra few ounces.
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Rifle Scopes Minox ZP5 5-25 mr4 vs......... gen 2 razor.
- Thread starter manscout
- Start date
We'd love to discuss the pros and cons of these scopes plus others in its class, please give us a call at 916.670.1103 and Mike can go over the fine details of them.
The Minox is truly stunning. Almost no CA. Turrets are very nice indeed. The MR4 reticle is just perfect for long range. That dot is so fine and accurate. I never feel fatigued after shooting my Shots. After you look through the Minox it will ruin you because it's so hard to beat. If u have the loot there's no comparing another. Full disclosure. I've not looked through a razor. I have compared the Minox directly to the gen 3 kahles and found the Minox to be much better. And from what I've been told the kahles is better than the razor. Some is subjective. But I'm telling ya. Don't look through the Minox unless you intend to buy it cause it's amazing.
The Razor has a lot going for it. I like the locking turrets on the Razor, but the turrets on the Minox are good, they just don't lock. I love the non-rotating/locking diopter on the Minox. The Minox comes with good lens caps, you'll need to buy them for the Razor. Minor beef with the Minox; please put numerical values on the parallax knob scale. I know the numbers won't accurately reflect distance, but I don't care (and I won't take points away.......). The Razor has numerical values and it's faster/easier to reset parallax, when changing distances. Get the EBR-2C reticle on the Razor, the MR4 on the ZP5. Both are Xmas tree with a dot and high res images can be found on their respective mfr's website.
I have standardized on the Minox, specifically because of the glass. I had a Razor and went to the Minox,with no regrets. Again, I have a very high regard for the Razor, it is a great scope. Vortex CS is the benchmark by which all others are judged. If you are on a budget and/or can't swing the extra coin for the ZP5, the Razor is a great choice. If you have the coin and IQ/complete lack of CA is important to you, invest in the ZP5.
Call Mike/Richard @ CST, they'll take care of you, I've been dropping a bunch of my kids inheritance there lately.
I have standardized on the Minox, specifically because of the glass. I had a Razor and went to the Minox,with no regrets. Again, I have a very high regard for the Razor, it is a great scope. Vortex CS is the benchmark by which all others are judged. If you are on a budget and/or can't swing the extra coin for the ZP5, the Razor is a great choice. If you have the coin and IQ/complete lack of CA is important to you, invest in the ZP5.
Call Mike/Richard @ CST, they'll take care of you, I've been dropping a bunch of my kids inheritance there lately.
I'm curious as to why you would say that? I would say that FFP scopes are desired for long range, they are typically not desired for hunting but that is because many hunters are uneducated (myself having been one of them for many years) and think that SFP is superior because the reticle doesn't change size with magnification; however, there are definite benefits to know that the hash marks on your reticle are the same at any magnification, especially for long range. Sorry, I digress. Anyway, I've never looked through or used a Razor HD Gen II but it seems they are highly sought after for many reasons. The Minox ZP5 5-25 has the best glass I've ever looked through, better than the Schmidt scopes I've had, but glass isn't everything (unless you obsess about it like I tend to) so you should make your decision based off other features you'd like, and many times that comes down to the reticle and/or turrets. I have a Minox ZP5 and think it is phenomenal, but it has the weight, the reticle and the turrets that I like.
i'm talking about elr. in those cases the ffp reticle at high mag can get gigantic against a small, distant target. also, if you use sfp, you can zoom out a bit and substantially increase the amount of reticle for holding because it multiplies.
With the open center of the Vortex 2C reticle that isn't an issue. Even with the reticle itself, which is .03 mils wide which equates to about 1.1" covered at 1000 and 2.2" at 2000 yards. No problems shooting most any target at those ranges with those widths.
This^^^
I often see folks talk about "thick reticles" on ffp scopes. It makes me wonder if I just suck because I sure as heck can't shoot to within 1" at 1k.
When you zoom out on an FFP scope, there's just as much FOV as with the SFP scope at the same mag, but more of the reticle is visible AND it actually subtends properly. No math to do. With the FFP scopes I have run with 20 MOA cant in the past 5 years (quite a few) that gives me a total of at least 32 mils of elevation (22 mils turret plus 10 mils reticle).
If someone gave me a really high end SFP scope I'd sell it immediately and buy an FFP with the proceeds. Zero interest in SFP high powered scopes.
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I played with a Minox and a new Kahles side by side over the weekend. A couple guys in my squad were running them.
I'm incredibly impressed with the Minox. I always enjoy the view through a Razor or Kahles, but I must say, that Minox is tough to beat. They have a pretty good gig going there.
I'm incredibly impressed with the Minox. I always enjoy the view through a Razor or Kahles, but I must say, that Minox is tough to beat. They have a pretty good gig going there.
you're failing to see the point. it's the fact that the reticle sub-tensions are no longer 1 for 1. now they are 2 for 1. that allows you to double your amount of hold over, i.e. every 1 mil of reticle = 2 mils on target. for extreme long range precision, sfp is more dominant for that reason but more for the fact the reticle stays very fine no matter what mag setting unlike ffp.
i understand what you're saying and have witnessed it. that's also why i'm not very concerned with it and am still using ffp over sfp. i threw that bit in there to keep the sfp topic subdued. apparently that didn't work. however, there is no doubt a smaller reticle is more precise. at 2k it's ridiculously hard to make sure your poa is the same when the reticle is half as thick as the target.
The typical line weight of an FFP reticle is less than .06 mil, or less than a fifth of one MOA. Can you shoot with .2 MOA precision at ELR? Twice that is .4 MOA, can you even hope to hit a target that is twice as large as the reticle line weight at ELR?
obviously not. but that's what the sfp guys support. which again.... that's why i said what i did about sfp to avoid these arguments. what is with people on the hide and throwing their opinions down people's throats when it's not what they are asking for. this is not the topic of the post. so either stick to that or stop, please.
I was in the same position about 5 months ago, though it was Kahles v. Gen2. However that's only because I didn't know about the Minox til I traveled to NorCal over Thanksgiving and shot the monthly NCPPRC match and got sqauded up with a Minox shooter. I already got a Kahles, but I was at CS Tactical the next day.
Both are great, but I think it comes down to the reticles, weight, and locking dioper v. locking turrets.
For me, my next scope will be the Minox, but the Kahles isn't going anywhere either.
Both are great, but I think it comes down to the reticles, weight, and locking dioper v. locking turrets.
For me, my next scope will be the Minox, but the Kahles isn't going anywhere either.
I've owned every scope you can name other than the Tangent Theta and still have the Schmidt and Vortex Gen 2. Since I've gotten the Minox, none of the other scopes get used. The Minox is amazing and CS Tactical was great to deal with as always.
premier/nightforce/SuB/Minox,.ONE prevalent designer
i keep hearing that, can anyone expand on this with detail? it's interesting how these top tier scopes are all somehow tied together.
Yes,..Andreas Schaefer was a senior design engineer at SuB.He moved to OPTRONIKA in germany and worked first on the Premier scopes before also providing input at MINOX. Subsequently he formed Schaefer Optronics that I believe have consulted to Nightforce.He is an outstanding and modest individual to work with. A classic example of modern german industrial intellect.I belive he has also just worked on something a little more ground breaking, but that will be revealed later this year.
Let us know and hopefully we'll have enough to get you in on the next shipment
Believe me, i'd like nothing more than to upgrade from the Gen1 PST on my 308. Hopefully at some point this year. Hopefully.
this is strong advise coming from someone who chooses Vortex to compete with. Vortex has great glass and nice simple features, not to mention first class support. I would now love to see them make an ultra short scope.
