Rifle Scopes Minox ZP5 5-25x56 & Steiner M7Xi 4-28x56

[BallisticPrimate]

These X vs X threads are usually annoying but regardless I'm interested in an overview from someone who has both of these scopes. I have a backorder on a Steiner M7Xi 4-28x56 MSR2 II and have the option to switch to a Minox ZP5 5-25 MR4 reticle - price is essentially a wash (I'm based in Australia).

My uses are comp shooting and occasional hunting - optic will sit on a 6.5x47

Is it worth waiting a month or so for the Steiner M7Xi or getting on a ZP5? Does anyone actually have both of these optics in hand?

Thanks,

BP

 

[just browsing]

@jwknutson17 should soon if he doesn’t already.

I have the M7Xi and it’s been outstanding so far.

 

[MOUNTIC]

I should have two of the M7xi's this week and will do a side by side Thursday or Friday vs the ZP5 MR4. I'm out of town til then so that's as soon as I can get hands on.

 

[MDT_Josh]

I can't speak for the M7xi other than what I've seen on this forum, but I can tell you that the Minox is worth every penny! I've been running one for some time now and after the initial adjustment period (as I got used to the scope) I can't find anything that I don't like about it!

Feel free to ask questions you may have about that scope and I am interested to see a comparison

 

[MOUNTIC]

I can't speak for the M7xi other than what I've seen on this forum, but I can tell you that the Minox is worth every penny! I've been running one for some time now and after the initial adjustment period (as I got used to the scope) I can't find anything that I don't like about it!

Feel free to ask questions you may have about that scope and I am interested to see a comparison

I also really like the ZP5. Enough that I have had 7 of them. 4 currently. But excellent value for what you get. Hoping the M7xi is right there in value/performance.

 

[BallisticPrimate]

I should have two of the M7xi's this week and will do a side by side Thursday or Friday vs the ZP5 MR4. I'm out of town til then so that's as soon as I can get hands on.

Excellent, thanks. There's no way for me to get hands on with these scopes before making a purchasing decision, so any side by side you can provide is appreciated. BP

 

[MOUNTIC]

Excellent, thanks. There's no way for me to get hands on with these scopes before making a purchasing decision, so any side by side you can provide is appreciated. BP

No worries. If there is anything specific let me know. Ill try to capture what I can to get you the best representation of the optic.

 

[never_summer]

Just ran my Minox zp5 in a course and match this weekend. Tracked out to 1100 yds in my 6.5 creed reliably. Had to use holdovers for one stage from 300 to 700 yards, and the reticle made it real easy. This is my only high end optic so can’t really give you any in depth comparison, but I like this Minox.

 

[BallisticPrimate]

I can't speak for the M7xi other than what I've seen on this forum, but I can tell you that the Minox is worth every penny! I've been running one for some time now and after the initial adjustment period (as I got used to the scope) I can't find anything that I don't like about it!

Feel free to ask questions you may have about that scope and I am interested to see a comparison

Josh, I'm interested in the turrets on the ZP5. I already know I like the MR4 reticle, and by all accounts the glass is top tier. The only things I see pop up in regards to issues with the Minox are turret related complaints. How are the Turrets on yours? Likewise @jwknutson17, you've had a bunch of the ZP5's, is there consistency in the turrets from scope to scope?

 

[Discogodfather]

Really would love to hear a good comparison of the optics of the M7Xi vs the ZP5 and other high end glass like the Schmidt, etc. My experience with Steiner in the past is that the optical performance is damn good but not 100% up to a TT or Schmidt or Minox or Henny. What is the resolution like?

 

[C_R_Slacker]

Josh, I'm interested in the turrets on the ZP5. I already know I like the MR4 reticle, and by all accounts the glass is top tier. The only things I see pop up in regards to issues with the Minox are turret related complaints.

I got a zp5 a few months ago. It's my first "tier 1" optic. In my opinion the turrets feel nice and distinct and are audible. I do wish they were 10 or 12 mil per revolution instead of 15 though. The markings on the turret are so close together that it's hard to tell sometimes which exact click you're on. Not sure if other scopes with 15 mil/rev have the same issue. maybe they could address it with the way they mark them in the future.

The only other complaint i have with the scope is the illumination knob. Honestly, it's garbage. My gen 1 pst had a better illumination knob. It moves way too easily and i can barely feel the detents between each position. Does anyone else's feel the same? I wonder if something is wrong with mine. But i almost never use illumination so it's not a deal breaker to me.

Anyway, other than those two minor complaints, i love the scope, and I'm not considering trading it for something else.

 

[MOUNTIC]

The main complaints of the ZP5 are hard second rev and inconsistencies from turret feel from scope to scope. I would say I had 2 with much harder second rev but it smooths out after use. The newer white box generally has a smoother second rev then the early ones. But that's not always the case. I have some super early ones... In the teens serial numbers and 100s that are just as good as the newer white box ones I have. The latest one I has a smoother parallax the the previous ones. Illumination is the same on all of them and I haven't seen many complaints. Yes it rolls pretty smooth through the adjustments. Never thought of that being an issue. Glass on all have been fantastic. Some of the older ones I have, have the best turrets out of the bunch. Generally they are all great.

There are probably 100 ZP5 reviews on here and generally they are mostly positive.

15 mil turrets are close no matter what. I don't have issues dialing or seeing where I'm at in them. Clicks are positive and feel good.

 

[BallisticPrimate]

@jwknutson17 should soon if he doesn’t already.

I have the M7Xi and it’s been outstanding so far.

Thanks. What have you compared it to? Cheers, BP

 

[MDT_Josh]

Josh, I'm interested in the turrets on the ZP5. I already know I like the MR4 reticle, and by all accounts the glass is top tier. The only things I see pop up in regards to issues with the Minox are turret related complaints. How are the Turrets on yours? Likewise @jwknutson17, you've had a bunch of the ZP5's, is there consistency in the turrets from scope to scope?

The turrets for me were the thing that took most getting used to on this scope. Those and the floating centre dot reticle I guess.

I am used to taller, 10 MIL/Rev turrets with larger spacing between clicks and large numbers, so to go to the lower profile turrets with closer clicks took some adjustment. At first, I was much like @C_R_Slacker and had issues trying to determine if I was a click out and spent quite some time adjusting the cap on my zero to ensure that I was happy.

Once I played with it a little more, ran it in a handful of training sessions and matches and just got used to it, the turrets have become second nature and dialing to where I need to be seems to be faster. I am now a huge fan of the turrets and going back to a NF or a Bushnell feels slower to me, even though I can easily see the MIL markers.

As for the 2nd turn window, I have yet to shoot that far in actual use (topped out at 13.3 MIL with my 6 Dasher) but playing with it (on my scope) didn't appear to be an issue. Yes, there is a noticeable "oomf" required to get over that second rev, but it doesn't bother me and it's not as bad as some of the reviews I have seen out there.

The illumination I have actually used for some trickier shots into dark scenery and low light and can say that it works very well without blurring the reticle for my eye. Best illumination I have used to date. The only issue I have had so far is the one time I accidentally bumped the illumination on between stages, started the next stage and had it at max power (which I quickly shut down).

 

[C_R_Slacker]

Yep, @MDT_Josh summed it up well on the turrets. I think it's just something you get used to. There are some small changes i would make if i could, but none of the small issues make me regret my decision.

 

[BallisticPrimate]

The turrets for me were the thing that took most getting used to on this scope. Those and the floating centre dot reticle I guess.

I am used to taller, 10 MIL/Rev turrets with larger spacing between clicks and large numbers, so to go to the lower profile turrets with closer clicks took some adjustment. At first, I was much like @C_R_Slacker and had issues trying to determine if I was a click out and spent quite some time adjusting the cap on my zero to ensure that I was happy.

Once I played with it a little more, ran it in a handful of training sessions and matches and just got used to it, the turrets have become second nature and dialing to where I need to be seems to be faster. I am now a huge fan of the turrets and going back to a NF or a Bushnell feels slower to me, even though I can easily see the MIL markers.

As for the 2nd turn window, I have yet to shoot that far in actual use (topped out at 13.3 MIL with my 6 Dasher) but playing with it (on my scope) didn't appear to be an issue. Yes, there is a noticeable "oomf" required to get over that second rev, but it doesn't bother me and it's not as bad as some of the reviews I have seen out there.

The illumination I have actually used for some trickier shots into dark scenery and low light and can say that it works very well without blurring the reticle for my eye. Best illumination I have used to date. The only issue I have had so far is the one time I accidentally bumped the illumination on between stages, started the next stage and had it at max power (which I quickly shut down).

Thanks for that explanation, Josh. I've got 15mil turrets on my S&B ultra short, so I'm well aquatinted with short spacing between clicks. Given my use for this rifle is crossover comp/hunting I'm leaning towards the Steiner at this point (For size/weight/reticle reasons). But I'm definitely interested in learning more from users who have both the Minox and the M7xi.

 

[generalzip]

Based off the comments above I’m sure this opinion won’t be a popular one but here goes anyway.

I’d honestly hesitate to do any sort of comparison with a Minox ZP5. The reason I say that is their QC is so bad that one scope that leaves the door could be Schmidt like glass and quality and then the next scope that leaves the factory is a steaming pile of poo. I’ve had black box, white box, new and used and a friend bought one at the same time. None of them were similar to each other at all. The one I played with at shot show had turrets that were wayyyy better than both of mine. One had awful glass as well. My razor was better than it. Clearly a lemon.

That said, for the reason above I don’t think you’d get much out of a comparison of these scopes because it’s easentially a moving target. There’s no way to really tell what you’re comparing it to in terms of a known quantity (the Minox). I’d suggest comparing the Steiner to maybe a Schmidt or kahles 525 or something along those lines which seem to be a much more known quantity without the massive quality issues Minox seems to suffer from.

Just a suggestion and I’m sure not a popular opinion but I think it would help you get a better picture of what you’re looking at with the Steiner in terms of what to expect.

 

[BallisticPrimate]

Based off the comments above I’m sure this opinion won’t be a popular one but here goes anyway.

I’d honestly hesitate to do any sort of comparison with a Minox ZP5. The reason I say that is their QC is so bad that one scope that leaves the door could be Schmidt like glass and quality and then the next scope that leaves the factory is a steaming pile of poo. I’ve had black box, white box, new and used and a friend bought one at the same time. None of them were similar to each other at all. The one I played with at shot show had turrets that were wayyyy better than both of mine. One had awful glass as well. My razor was better than it. Clearly a lemon.

That said, for the reason above I don’t think you’d get much out of a comparison of these scopes because it’s easentially a moving target. There’s no way to really tell what you’re comparing it to in terms of a known quantity (the Minox). I’d suggest comparing the Steiner to maybe a Schmidt or kahles 525 or something along those lines which seem to be a much more known quantity without the massive quality issues Minox seems to suffer from.

Just a suggestion and I’m sure not a popular opinion but I think it would help you get a better picture of what you’re looking at with the Steiner in terms of what to expect.

Thanks for the input, "unpopular" opinions are extremely useful if they help us understand things more clearly. I've yet to do much digging but at first glance the feedback on the ZP5's I've come across has been extremely positive. Would you mind referring me to more of the criticisms you're alluding to? Given I'm based in Australia I've no interest in gambling on a scope. Getting anything repaired from this part of the world is a long and arduous process that I'd prefer to avoid. That said, the single best customer service experience I've ever had was with Minox, so I don't doubt they'll make things right if needed. Purely from a ruggedness perspective I wonder if there's good reason to rate the Steiner more highly than the Minox?

 

[generalzip]

Honestly I haven’t seen much in the way of ruggedness being an issue. It just seems to be a matter of getting a good one or not. It seems as though Minox has a very high rate of issues/returns. In the US that’s a big deal when a scope has to go back to Europe. Especially when vortex and Nightforce turn a scope around in a week.

If you do a quick search for Minox here you’ll come across quite a few threads with people having both good and bad experiences.

If you don’t have a couple backups scopes I’d personally be very hesitant to recommend a Minox. Not sure what turnaround times are like down under for them though

 

[patriot07]

Based off the comments above I’m sure this opinion won’t be a popular one but here goes anyway.

I’d honestly hesitate to do any sort of comparison with a Minox ZP5. The reason I say that is their QC is so bad that one scope that leaves the door could be Schmidt like glass and quality and then the next scope that leaves the factory is a steaming pile of poo. I’ve had black box, white box, new and used and a friend bought one at the same time. None of them were similar to each other at all. The one I played with at shot show had turrets that were wayyyy better than both of mine. One had awful glass as well. My razor was better than it. Clearly a lemon.

That said, for the reason above I don’t think you’d get much out of a comparison of these scopes because it’s easentially a moving target. There’s no way to really tell what you’re comparing it to in terms of a known quantity (the Minox). I’d suggest comparing the Steiner to maybe a Schmidt or kahles 525 or something along those lines which seem to be a much more known quantity without the massive quality issues Minox seems to suffer from.

Just a suggestion and I’m sure not a popular opinion but I think it would help you get a better picture of what you’re looking at with the Steiner in terms of what to expect.

Couldn't agree more. I would never buy a Minox for 2 reasons: poor QC and extremely long warranty service (primarily due to customs, but reasons aren't relevant when I don't have a scope for 3-4 months). They're fantastic scopes when they're working, but there are too many intangible drawbacks for me at that price point.

If their glass was all as good as their units with good glass, and if their turrets were all as good as their units with good turrets, and if you got the scope back in 2-4 weeks if I had a problem, then I'd break down and buy one. But that just isn't the case.

 

[MOUNTIC]

So Kahles gets thrown in that mix too. Took many months to get mine looked at. Came back working but over 3 months and had to pay my way to ship it to Swarovski... Wasn't happy about that.

So any overseas service center would be in that category also.

If you want the best with the least amount of issues, buy a TT and be done with it. Couldn't stand the CA in the Kahles. Sold both I had. Sent more Leupolds back then I can count. Sent a few Vortex back. Minox replaced a optic for me out of there TX Blaser location. Never had to send a Steiner or a TT back. Had to send a USO back. Sent a Bushnell elite back. If you look hard enough you will find that every scope manufacturer has issues. Guy who just got the first TT h59 in the states from EO (he said) had to send it back.

Stuff happens. You will find whatever you want on either side for every optic if you look hard enough.

 

[918v]

You guys are full of shit. You don’t have a clue about the qc or rate of return and opine on both by virtue of reading posts on this forum. Your posts are about as useful as phillip61’s

 

[generalzip]

So Kahles gets thrown in that mix too. Took many months to get mine looked at. Came back working but over 3 months and had to pay my way to ship it to Swarovski... Wasn't happy about that.

So any overseas service center would be in that category also.

If you want the best with the least amount of issues, buy a TT and be done with it. Couldn't stand the CA in the Kahles. Sold both I had. Sent more Leupolds back then I can count. Sent a few Vortex back. Minox replaced a optic for me out of there TX Blaser location. Never had to send a Steiner or a TT back. Had to send a USO back. Sent a Bushnell elite back. If you look hard enough you will find that every scope manufacturer has issues. Guy who just got the first TT h59 in the states from EO (he said) had to send it back.

Stuff happens. You will find whatever you want on either side for every optic if you look hard enough.

It’s not just the fact it’s an overseas company. It’s an overseas company that has a track record of subpar quality control. Kahles sells a shit ton of scopes and the vast majority of customers don’t experience quality issues.

I totally agree with you every manufacturer has issue. It’s just Minox seems to have that problem a lot more than others considering how few people actually have them compared to vortex, kahles, etc.

I also agree with you the kahles has an unacceptable level of CA in a scope this price

 

[generalzip]

You guys are full of shit. You don’t have a clue about the qc or rate of return and opine on both by virtue of reading posts on this forum. Your posts are about as useful as phillip61’s

So owning two Minox scopes and knowing friends with them and having issues with both is “reading posts on this forum”? Again I didn’t expect the opinion to be popular in a thread with a lot of Minox fans. I’m not saying they make a bad scope. Just saying they can’t make a good one that consistently.

 

[Discogodfather]

I am kind of curious of the Steiner service, never had to send my old Military 3-12x56mm back. I was told on the phone to Burris that they do all the German scope service in the USA, is that true? Or does it have to go back to Bavaria?

 

[hk dave]

I sent back a Minox ZP5 for a reticle change, the first one ever I think and found out they couldn’t get it back through customs.

They sent me a new one.

The glass rivals my TT.

Turrets are awesome. Guess I got lucky?

I’ve also sent back two Steiner Military scopes.

They too sent me new ones.

I think I might just be a lucky bastard.

I am ok with this.

 

[BallisticPrimate]

No worries. If there is anything specific let me know. Ill try to capture what I can to get you the best representation of the optic.

Circling back to this, thanks for the offer. In this class of optic my order of priorities are:

• Tracking & general reliability (I don't expect you'll be able to test this on short notice )
• Turrets & controls (I can put up with anything except slack/mushy turrets that don't perfectly align with markings 100% of the time. Crisp/distinct clicks that snap into place and are clearly audible are a large bonus). In addition I'm interested in how stiff/easy to use the parallax and magnification rings are?
• Glass/IQ (a lowlight comparison would be extra useful)
• Eye-box
• Reticle (I know it's subjective and I like both the MR4 and the MSR2, but they are quite different)
• Illumination (Any bleeding? Daylight visible, ease of use of illumination controls)
• Weight/Size (I can get the specs from the respective websites but a side by side picture paints a 1000 words re size)
• General comments on things you'd change if you could and any surprising features that you particularly like/don't like would be useful.

Any input is much appreciated
Cheers,
BP

 

[918v]

I have 2 Minoxes and no problems. I also have a bunch of other alpha scopes. The qc problems and return rates cited in this thread are based on total sample size of what 10 scopes?

 

[Discogodfather]

I sent back a Minox ZP5 for a reticle change, the first one ever I think and found out they couldn’t get it back through customs.

They sent me a new one.

The glass rivals my TT.

Turrets are awesome. Guess I got lucky?

I’ve also sent back two Steiner Military scopes.

They too sent me new ones.

I think I might just be a lucky bastard.

I am ok with this.

It feels like scope companies fall into two categories: the ones that have another one on the shelf and send it out as soon as anything gets hairy and the companies that actually service stuff. Schmidt and March from my experience never send out a new one first time. I would have thought Minox and Steiner would be similar in that they want to actually fix it, but who knows these days.

I prefer the companies that service, I always jot down my serial # so I can be sure they are sending the same one back. I don't like it when I have a completely new scope and have to run everything through it's paces again to make sure everything else is ok. Feels like I need to check everything again when I just had 1 problem that needed to be solved.

It begs the question when you have an older scope that isn't made anymore (like my Steiner Military 3-12x56) and it has the lifetime warranty and there isn't another one on the shelf........what do they do? Seems like they have to service it or they will go out of business sending the latest version as a replacement?

 

[generalzip]

I have 2 Minoxes and no problems. I also have a bunch of other alpha scopes. The qc problems and return rates cited in this thread are based on total sample size of what 10 scopes?

There's been WAYYY more than 10 reports of mushy turrets, finicky parallax, poor glass quality, or turrets not lining up. Do a search on the forum here and you'll be able to cite several examples. Not trying to start anything, but if you look at the total number of reviews/comments about the Minox and then see what percentage were issues it's way higher than most brands out there. There's not a ton of people out there that own the Minox compared to other brands. You need to look at the percentage of failures/returns, not just the number.

 

[RyanM]

There's been WAYYY more than 10 reports of mushy turrets, finicky parallax, poor glass quality, or turrets not lining up. Do a search on the forum here and you'll be able to cite several examples. Not trying to start anything, but if you look at the total number of reviews/comments about the Minox and then see what percentage were issues it's way higher than most brands out there. There's not a ton of people out there that own the Minox compared to other brands. You need to look at the percentage of failures/returns, not just the number.

I have said this before in another thread but myself and @MDT_Josh are up in Canada and things are a bit different. We got our ZP5s much later (later production units )than you guys down south and I am pretty sure that by the time they started to ship in Canada a lot of the kinks were worked out.

Also, our distributor up here is very good and on the ball. In contrast, our Steiner distributor up here is terrible and I could never recommend a Stenier to anyone up here but maybe I could in the US is the service was good.

I think the ZP5 as a scope is great scope and I am very pleased with my 3. They are all identical in terms of glass quality, turret feel, and parallax adjustment.

If you want to talk warranties look no further than Vortex - with that said I still thing Vortex is good.

 

[Statie07]

I was at the range yesterday with a few friends and was able to compare the glass on a S&B 5-25 MSR, Steiner M5 MSR, My M7Xi MSR2, and my gen II razor 4.5-27 EBR-7C. I have looked though a Minix MR4 but not at the same time as the others.

In my opinion the S&B was the clearest/brightest glass of all the scopes. Next was surprisingly the Vortex by a small but noticeable margin. The Steiner M5 and M7Xi seemed the same to me.

I’ll be shooting in a PRS match at Mount Victoria this coming weekend with a friend who will be running his MR4 and I’ll be using the M7Xi, so I should be able to compare both.

 

[just browsing]

I am kind of curious of the Steiner service, never had to send my old Military 3-12x56mm back. I was told on the phone to Burris that they do all the German scope service in the USA, is that true? Or does it have to go back to Bavaria?

Never had any of my Military scopes go back, but all those years ago when the T5Xi had the turret and tracking issues, Burris/Steiner CS was very good in getting them fixed and turned around quickly. Pretty sure most of those issues were dealt with in the U.S. but can’t be sure... Either way, I haven’t heard of any other issues since that whole debacle.

What I will also say is that while Steiner is relatively “under the radar” as far as tactical/precision shooting disciplines go - especially in the States - they are probably best renowned for their ruggedness and durability. They may give up “some” in terms of glass quality or something if one feels so compelled to split hairs, but I’ve not seen or heard of one having to go back for any type of failure.

 

[GeoffatBurris]

It begs the question when you have an older scope that isn't made anymore (like my Steiner Military 3-12x56) and it has the lifetime warranty and there isn't another one on the shelf........what do they do? Seems like they have to service it or they will go out of business sending the latest version as a replacement?

We try, at Burris and Steiner, to fix/repair rather than replace. I think it would be very rare for a M-series scope to need replacement. On older items, we keep a few in reserve and keep any necessary parts stocked here in Greeley. I'm sure Steiner Germany also has parts in reserve if needed, although that would make a big delay.

The Heritage warranty is lifetime for anything purchased new since that warranty went into effect (I think 2014 - I can get a better answer if you're curious). If you bought an item before then, it's covered by the warranty that was in effect when the item was purchased.

 

[GeoffatBurris]

Pretty sure most of those issues were dealt with in the U.S. but can’t be sure

Absolutely. The T5Xi is completely done here in USA.*

*there's a weird legal disclosure on that statement: if a "significant component" of a product comes from overseas, you can't say "made in USA" and the glass is not US. But machining, assembly, etc. etc., all done in Greeley Colorado.

 

[PrairieDeke]

I have only looked through a M5, so i cannot comment on the M7. I did pick up my Minox ZP5 at the end of last year and could not be happier, it checked the boxes on everything I was after. Glass is clear, the MR4 reticle is extremely versatile and uncluttered and no issues with the turrets. Yes the getting to the second revolution takes a smidge more effort, but I never have to dial that high so it is a non-issue. I am looking for a replacement scope for another build and will go with another Minox ZP5 due to the experience with the first one.

 

[BallisticPrimate]

I was at the range yesterday with a few friends and was able to compare the glass on a S&B 5-25 MSR, Steiner M5 MSR, My M7Xi MSR2, and my gen II razor 4.5-27 EBR-7C. I have looked though a Minix MR4 but not at the same time as the others.

In my opinion the S&B was the clearest/brightest glass of all the scopes. Next was surprisingly the Vortex by a small but noticeable margin. The Steiner M5 and M7Xi seemed the same to me.

I’ll be shooting in a PRS match at Mount Victoria this coming weekend with a friend who will be running his MR4 and I’ll be using the M7Xi, so I should be able to compare both.

Thanks for the input, I was under the impression that the M7Xi has significantly better glass than the M5, a believe a poster in this thread compared them. Anyone else have a M5 and M7Xi they can compare? After import taxes etc I can basically get a NF 7-35 for the same price as the M7Xi/Minox, so any info is appreciated. Right now still leaning towards the Steiner, but not being able to get hands on with the optics makes the decision that much harder.

 

[just browsing]

Thanks for the input, I was under the impression that the M7Xi has significantly better glass than the M5, a believe a poster in this thread compared them. Anyone else have a M5 and M7Xi they can compare? After import taxes etc I can basically get a NF 7-35 for the same price as the M7Xi/Minox, so any info is appreciated. Right now still leaning towards the Steiner, but not being able to get hands on with the optics makes the decision that much harder.

The M7 is notably better than the M5. Splitting hairs with the 7-35 NF.

 

[BallisticPrimate]

The M7 is notably better than the M5. Splitting hairs with the 7-35 NF.

Roger that, that was my assumption. I'd happily give up 7x on the top end to gain 3x on the bottom end of the mag range and the extra FOV the Steiner provides. That said I totally understand the appeal of the 7-35 for certain applications. I used March 5-40 for a while which did open my eyes to the benefits of extra mag.

 

[PrairieDeke]

Thanks for the input, I was under the impression that the M7Xi has significantly better glass than the M5, a believe a poster in this thread compared them. Anyone else have a M5 and M7Xi they can compare? After import taxes etc I can basically get a NF 7-35 for the same price as the M7Xi/Minox, so any info is appreciated. Right now still leaning towards the Steiner, but not being able to get hands on with the optics makes the decision that much harder.

Pricing from country to country is a little mesmerizing. The NF 7-35 is around $4800 CDN, the Minox ZP5 is $3750 CDN .... I could not locate a vendor that has a Steiner M7Xi in Canada, heard it was to be in the $4000 CDN range though.

I am sure you would be happy with any of the scopes that have been discussed, differences at the top end of the optics seem to be very minimal

 

[Glassaholic]

Roger that, that was my assumption. I'd happily give up 7x on the top end to gain 3x on the bottom end of the mag range and the extra FOV the Steiner provides. That said I totally understand the appeal of the 7-35 for certain applications. I used March 5-40 for a while which did open my eyes to the benefits of extra mag.

Curious why you sold the March, I too have heard great things about that scope and am very curious how the new PRS 5-42x56 with HM glass will do

 

[BallisticPrimate]

Curious why you sold the March, I too have heard great things about that scope and am very curious how the new PRS 5-42x56 with HM glass will do

Hey Bill. I didn't sell it, I was sponsored by March for a while and shot it in 4 matches. I returned the scope when I decided I'd prefer not to be a "jersey shooter". I was extremely impressed with the March 5-40, it's highly underrated.

 

[BallisticPrimate]

For me the eye box was a little finicky

Which scope are you referring to?

 

[lennyo3034]

I ran my Minox next to @just browsing’s M7 at the match this past weekend. I’ve also owned a M5 until recently.

I think the turrets on the M7 are better. I don’t remember how many mils per rev, but I remember thinking the elevation turret was slightly better. Was sad to see the M5/T5 second rev indicator gone. That was the coolest in the industry. My Minox’s windage turret is trash. Very mushy. Luckily I don’t use it much.

Glass wise we just took a quick peek behind each other’s glass. I couldn’t tell a difference and I highly doubt anyone could in a match situation.

I think I still prefer the MR-4 over the MSR2 but that’s personal preference.

I also have a March 3-24x52 and it holds its own against the Minox. Have not gotten behind both at distance for a detailed comparison but for actual shooting they were comparable. I did not think the M5 I had was quite as good in this regard.

 

[Statie07]

@Katahdin and I were down at W.A.R. Rifles too. He was running his Minox and I the M7. I also prefer the turrets on the M7 to the M5. Both are 15 mils mils per rev.

 

[Katahdin]

Ok Guys here goes, I own a S&B 5-25 DT MSR, Steiner M5Xi 5-25 MSR, Steiner Military 4-16 G2MD, Minox ZP5 5-25 MR4, and a few other entry model scopes. I have looked through a Vortex Gen 2 razor 4.5-27 EBR7C, Leupold 5-25 Mark 5 TMR, and the new Steiner M7Xi 4-28 MSR 2.

To me the Minox, S&B, and Steiner 4-16 are darn near equal as far as image and glass go and I could not find any chromatic aberration in any of them. All 3 of these are really easy on the eyes and they are pretty equal in what features you get.

I would group the M5XI, M7XI, Gen 2 Razor, and Mark 5 in the next group. They all have a little bit of chromatic aberration on high contrast targets when your eye is not directly behind the scope. I agree the Gen 2 razor has more "pop" or a brighter image than the Steiners but both are nice to my eyes. My least favorite is the Mark 5, mainly because of the 35mm tube, TMR reticle, and the 10.5 mil turrets.

None of them are bad scopes, it really does come down to what reticle you like or specific features you can't live without.

 

[Crang]

Love my ZP5. Glass and turrets are great. The only knock was I had to take a strap wrench to it to break the diopter adjust loose the first time but its been fine since. I leterally twisted it with hand strength until my hands bled before trying the wrench. Since I got it from CSTactical and was literally on the phone with them when I did it I had no worries about returning it if something was amiss. Just get it from a great vendor like them and be confident you can swap it out if its not up to your expectations.

 

[Glassaholic]

Since I got it from CSTactical and was literally on the phone with them when I did it I had no worries about returning it if something was amiss. Just get it from a great vendor like them and be confident you can swap it out if its not up to your expectations.

I cannot stress enough how purchasing from a great Hide vendor offers such a huge advantage over buying from other places - the Hide vendors truly take care of us, they are usually the cheapest (if you call them and tell them you're a SH member) and even if there are a bit more expensive I think it's worth it because of their support after the sale.

 

[robeast2000]

Ok Guys here goes, I own a S&B 5-25 DT MSR, Steiner M5Xi 5-25 MSR, Steiner Military 4-16 G2MD, Minox ZP5 5-25 MR4, and a few other entry model scopes. I have looked through a Vortex Gen 2 razor 4.5-27 EBR7C, Leupold 5-25 Mark 5 TMR, and the new Steiner M7Xi 4-28 MSR 2.

To me the Minox, S&B, and Steiner 4-16 are darn near equal as far as image and glass go and I could not find any chromatic aberration in any of them. All 3 of these are really easy on the eyes and they are pretty equal in what features you get.

I would group the M5XI, M7XI, Gen 2 Razor, and Mark 5 in the next group. They all have a little bit of chromatic aberration on high contrast targets when your eye is not directly behind the scope. I agree the Gen 2 razor has more "pop" or a brighter image than the Steiners but both are nice to my eyes. My least favorite is the Mark 5, mainly because of the 35mm tube, TMR reticle, and the 10.5 mil turrets.

None of them are bad scopes, it really does come down to what reticle you like or specific features you can't live without.

This^^

Since I don't have the budget to own several top tier optics i actually sold my M7XI to buy the ZP5. When i got behind the my buddy's ZP5 for the first time I just had to do it. Best glass I've ever looked through.