No not different types but the powder I use I could not find 8lb jugs of so I bought eight 1 lb jugs. They are not all the same lot number. Would it be a bad idea to mix all eight of them together so that I have more consistent results through the 8lbs vs having to check everything for each pound?
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Mixing powder
- Thread starter chungus
- Start date
Some food for thought.
Have you ever tested for the differences between batches?
Why not take the opportunity to try this with a sample of say 30 shots from the different batch numbers?
One of two things will happen, you will see no significant difference, or, you might see a significant difference.
If you did see a significant difference it would imply two things, one is that your shooting is good enough to care, and two, what would mixing do to your powder if there really was a difference? Would that create an "averaged" powder, or one that is always confused?
On the other hand... If you don't see a significant difference, then mixing is irrelevant. Good Luck and in for the range reports.
Have you ever tested for the differences between batches?
Why not take the opportunity to try this with a sample of say 30 shots from the different batch numbers?
One of two things will happen, you will see no significant difference, or, you might see a significant difference.
If you did see a significant difference it would imply two things, one is that your shooting is good enough to care, and two, what would mixing do to your powder if there really was a difference? Would that create an "averaged" powder, or one that is always confused?
On the other hand... If you don't see a significant difference, then mixing is irrelevant. Good Luck and in for the range reports.
ORRRR…
you remove the variable and mix it all together from the get go, and make it all “consistent” so you don’t waste any on testing
most guys who really care about lot # stuff, buy 24-32-40lbs at a time or more sometimes, of the same lot #
fun story time:
the navy marksmanship in previous years, would get issued MK262 (77gn 223) for matches. some guys would disassemble all the rounds, and put all the powder in one container. weigh it, and divide the powder evenly to go back in the rounds. cheap man’s way of getting all your issued rounds, as consistent as you possibly could with even charge weights/etc. used to work pretty well
mk262 is great ammo, but not super consistent on SD/ES. i’ve seen some pretty rough 10rd strings myself, during testing
enjoy!
you remove the variable and mix it all together from the get go, and make it all “consistent” so you don’t waste any on testing
most guys who really care about lot # stuff, buy 24-32-40lbs at a time or more sometimes, of the same lot #
fun story time:
the navy marksmanship in previous years, would get issued MK262 (77gn 223) for matches. some guys would disassemble all the rounds, and put all the powder in one container. weigh it, and divide the powder evenly to go back in the rounds. cheap man’s way of getting all your issued rounds, as consistent as you possibly could with even charge weights/etc. used to work pretty well
mk262 is great ammo, but not super consistent on SD/ES. i’ve seen some pretty rough 10rd strings myself, during testing
enjoy!
Sounds simple but in reality if there is much difference in the lots its going to be difficult to actually get a consistent mix of 8 lbs. You will need a much larger container than an 8 lb jug. You would also need to mix up the addition of the powder so the powder lots starts out with some mixing. Without some type of mechanical agitation it is difficult to get good mixing.
LOL
I am forever amused at how some here will paralyze themselves instantly with indecision and insane what ifs.
I do it all of the time, when I can’t find a keg and all I can get are one pound cans. Yep mix it, all you are doing is creating a lot of your own. I’ve done it for almost 20 years….
Some people have never made a batch of cookies
Nope just a fact. Didn't say not to do it but if you've never actually worked with mixing two or more batches of fine granulated materials and tested the mix you have no idea whether you have a true mix or what it takes to get one.
mix the lots to make one
ive done 100s of pounds over the years with the main types of powders i use...not a big deal in my opinion, i just take care not to contaminate or crush/break up the kernels
ive done 100s of pounds over the years with the main types of powders i use...not a big deal in my opinion, i just take care not to contaminate or crush/break up the kernels
So that test (@4Gunguy) has no control in that you do not know the variations in the powder lots or the various weights that make up the mix, would there have been a significant variation in the velocity of any of the lots in the mix? The test he actually ran was comparing a random sample of a random mix of lots of powder to the lot he was testing against. It says nothing about the consistency of the mixed lot.
As for mixing I don't have a problem with it. I do, based on experience with sampling and testing of mixed batchs, know that it takes a good amount of mixing of different granular materials to get a uniform mix, more so than most people imagine.
I have mixed small amounts of powder just as 4Gunguy did. Never tested it but I'm not surprised at all in his results. However, in the powders that I have used I never saw a discernible difference in the powders to begin with.
In most cases I don't think mixing is an issue but when I see references to powders giving 100 fps or more difference that is significant and its going to require more that dumping 8 1lb bottles into an 8 lb jug and shaking and rolling for a minute or two to get a uniform mix.
What facts? You haven't showed us any facts.
Show us your mix analysis results from whatever aggregate you're talking about. Then we will all decide if we should listen to you or not.
I don't have any test or analysis other than the 43 years of experience in industry some of which involved sampling and testing of mixed granular materials, predominately coal. I personally don't care whether you believe me or not.
But since you seem to be claiming that you can mix lots and you know that you are getting a reasonable mix that is representative of the weighted averages of the lots I will assume you have data to back that up?
But since you seem to be claiming that you can mix lots and you know that you are getting a reasonable mix that is representative of the weighted averages of the lots I will assume you have data to back that up?
Mix 2, call them 1a and 2a.So, what if I have 4 8lb kegs, is it ok to mix half of one with half of another in one 8 lb jug, then do the same with the other two and then take the resulting 2 mixes and do it again combining the two new mixes?
Then mix the other 2, call them 1b and 2b.
Now mix 1a and 1b, now call them 1c and 1d
Now mix 2a and 2b, call them 2c and 2d
Now mix 1c and 2d and 1d and 2c. Of course, now we need to call them 1e and 1f and 2e and 2f.
When you get finished you will have 4 8 lb jugs labeled 1y and 1z and 2y and 2z.
I think.
Just kidding...
I mixed a big bunch of H1000, something like 80 lbs. You really should try to mix it to be as homogeneous as you can. Also, you do want to be careful of static but that's not difficult to mitigate. I used a wheelbarrow and a shovel and garden rake. I've mixed other powders, as well, but I don't usually have as much on hand as I do H1000.
I'm not making claims, you are. And I'm skeptical of them. Good try at misdirection but failure.
@Doom has a valid point, and isn’t wrong.
However, I think it can be adequately mixed with simple means to a usable level. If done well then any slight variation will be lost in the noise.
I knew a guy that would mix Al powder and ‘another fine powder’ by rolling it in a sheet of paper. That was static free and mixed very thoroughly in a short amount of time. Perfectly mixed to a scientific level? Probably not, But it worked well!
Cookies, a tiny amount of baking powder or soda is mixed throughout several cups of flower to a fair degree of consistency, with not a whole lot of mixing.
However, I think it can be adequately mixed with simple means to a usable level. If done well then any slight variation will be lost in the noise.
I knew a guy that would mix Al powder and ‘another fine powder’ by rolling it in a sheet of paper. That was static free and mixed very thoroughly in a short amount of time. Perfectly mixed to a scientific level? Probably not, But it worked well!
Cookies, a tiny amount of baking powder or soda is mixed throughout several cups of flower to a fair degree of consistency, with not a whole lot of mixing.
The devil is in the details. It depends on how they are mixed. And how close you want to be to a uniform mix. Think in these terms. You take an 8lb jug and you put in 1lb of red sand first and 1 lb of white sand on top of the red in the jug. You cap it and turn it upside down and then back upright. Now do the same thing with but with 2lbs of each and flip it the same way. Which one is going to have more mixing? The answer is the 1lb will mix more because less sand is flowing down before the second powder is flowing down through the free space. It requires more mixing for the greater mass in the fixed volume. If you filled the jug with the sands and had no free space you would never be able to create a homogenous mix. A more efficient method would be to feed the powders at equal flow rate into a funnel and have the funnel drop on a couple of plates that break and then mix the flow stream. So in the case you mention you have very little free space so trying too mix in that case is going to take a lot of physical back and forth and round and round.So, what if I have 4 8lb kegs, is it ok to mix half of one with half of another in one 8 lb jug, then do the same with the other two and then take the resulting 2 mixes and do it again combining the two new mixes?
In most cases with gunpowder the differences are not that great and probably are believed to be greater than they are. Sochem publishes data for their powders which typically show between 1.5 to 2.5% velocity variation between the fastest and slowest lots.
If I were going to mix powders on a routine basis, and let's say I have 8x1lb bottles and 3 lbs each of 2 lots and 2lbs of the third. I would put 1 lb of each of the 3 bottle lots and about 2/3 of a bottle of the 2 bottle lot in the 8 lb jug. This amount could be mixed pretty easily by turning the bottle over and over. How many times? That is educated guess. But probably 25 times minimum would give a good mix. Call it good. and bottle it. Do the same again two more times. There is no need to mix the mixed lots. The key is to split the odd lot evenly in the batches and this can be done rather easily by dumping the 1 lb bottle into a suitable glass measuring cup to determine how much is 2/3 of a pound. Obviously this requires some spare bottles. In the case of 4x8lb I would do something similar probably determining the amount of powder to keep the amount of powder in each batch under 3 lbs. Also, if you mix be sure to note on the bottles the lot numbers that make up the mix in case of a powder recall!
I’ve mixed lots many times to make one big batch. You do need to mix thoroughly since just putting in a jug and shaking doesn’t really do enough. If you pour small amounts from each 1lb bottle rotating through that helps make mixing much easier.
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