Mk 13 Mod 0 stock

[RWSGunsmithing]

The index pin isn't necessary.

It just creates a tight spot in the bore.

I mean the suppressor is only going to fit two ways and how often do you plan on installing it in the dark?

Also speaking with an armor who worked on them, he said the pins are notorious for breaking/shearing off.

I give my customers the option of having it installed or not. After telling them a few of those points, most don't do the index pin.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I hate having to make this post and I don't want to talk shit about a gunsmith, but I need to show the work Alan Brown is currently putting out. Many people have been happy with his Mk13 builds over the years, but this has changed in the past year or so. Multiple people have contacted me regarding the quality of his builds and there's definitely issues with them. So much so that everyone had to send their Alan builds to other gunsmiths in order to be fixed. I'm not sure what's happened to Alan, but I hope he can improve his quality and regain our trust/confidence.

This is not a shit post, I just want my fellow collectors to see the work that coming out of Alan's shop. Money doesn't grow on trees and you should always do your due diligence when selecting a gunsmith for your build. I don't want to start any fights, so I'm not going to say who is currently rebuilding this Alan Brown built Mk13 Mod 2. Until Alan is able to turn his build quality around, I won't be able to recommend him as a gunsmith. There are some great builders out there, I highly suggest looking to them if you need to complete a build.

Lets start with the receiver, which was never trued. It's common practice for gunsmiths to true the receiver, chase the threads and lap the bolt lugs, etc. However, none of that work was done on this receiver, even though it was supposed to have been done. The finish is also subpar and appears to have discoloring or runs in the finish.

Next up is the barrel, which was especially bad. My friend said the rifle shot very poorly and that's what really tipped him off to have the rifle checked out by another gunsmith. Alan only cut the front part of the barrel, he didn't remove ANY material from the chamber end. In fact, some of the numbers Lilja stamped on the face of that end are still visible! I've seen this on a few of his other builds, but I've never heard of another gunsmith doing this. A barrel should always be cut at both ends of the blank.

Since the barrel was only shortened from the muzzle end of the blank, this led to another problem. When the barrel is only cut from the muzzle end, you end up with a larger outer diameter at that end. This problem doesn't occur with a properly cut blank that had material removed from both ends. Because the outer diameter was larger towards the barrel's muzzle end, it caused the barrel to come into contact with the nightvision front rail.

This contact led to poor accuracy and scratched the hell out of the barrel. Alan knew about this mistake because he used a dremel tool to remove metal from the underside of the front rail..... and then colored the bare metal with a sharpie marker. After all this extra "work," the barrel was still contacting the front rail!

The crown/threads were poorly cut and the custom thread protector is an absolute joke. The protective cover has 2 very shallow threads cut into it, so it doesn't do too much protecting when it doesn't stay in place.

This is not a good way to run a business. I don't have any problems with the man living and enjoying his life, I just have a problem with the unprofessional attitude towards his customers. There's been a lot of lies, broken promises, no communication and shoddy craftsmanship. All he has to do is update his customers and put out quality work in a timely manner.

The market for custom built rifles has absolutely exploded over the past decade and a simple Google search puts people in contact with dozens of amazing gunsmiths. There is absolutely no reason why anyone has to wait 2+ years for a build, with no communication and terrible quality. I get texts and emails from people every single week asking me if I've heard from Alan and we've seen people ask the same question across a few forums.

Even if he's older and not in the best health, the business problems he has can easily be remedied, but apparently he's just choosing not to do anything about it. I've personally sent 50+ people over to him for Mk13 builds, I had the trust and confidence in him to take care of my friends and customers. I also waited 2 years for my rifles be built and I got sick of the runaround, so I asked for my parts back a few months ago. I can't in good conscience recommend him for builds.

I hope you guys find this information useful and I hope Alan is able to turn his shop around. Do not wait 2+ years for a build with this type of work!

I’ve been a fan and known Alan for a long time... I did an armorers course with him c. 2002. He was, at that point at Crane, definitely at the top of his game! But that was almost 20 years ago.

Thanks for sharing. My Mk 13 Mod 0 was finished a couple of years ago and has none of those issues. But I know he has had health problems since then and a bunch of challenges with workload and finding help.

Even the best have to hang up some time and maybe it’s his time. I’ve always lived by the idea that you bow out at the top of your game... not when it’s past prime. So people say “Why did he stop...” not “Why didn’t he stop?”

Seems like I may have gotten one of the last great rifles from a great builder. But , as you say, we all get past our prime.

Thanks for the well-written and well-photographed post.

Sirhr

 

[cherokeefan03]

The index pin isn't necessary.

It just creates a tight spot in the bore.

I mean the suppressor is only going to fit two ways and how often do you plan on installing it in the dark?

Also speaking with an armor who worked on them, he said the pins are notorious for breaking/shearing off.

I give my customers the option of having it installed or not. After telling them a few of those points, most don't do the index pin.

I mean clone correct is clone correct whether it breaks off easily or not. Personally, I'd rather be 100% than 99% when talking about this much money.

 

[nn8734]

The index pin isn't necessary.

It just creates a tight spot in the bore.

I mean the suppressor is only going to fit two ways and how often do you plan on installing it in the dark?

I believe every Mod 5 that left Crane had a pin and some probably did break off but as cherokeefan said, I would’ve rather it be as correct as possible.

What is the typical difference in inner bore diameter at the pin’s location vs everywhere else in the bore?

I only take the suppressor off when I clean the rifle, which is typically every 40 rounds or so, otherwise it’s on all the time. Shooting these without the suppressor installed sucks.

 

[sandwarrior]

I mean clone correct is clone correct whether it breaks off easily or not. Personally, I'd rather be 100% than 99% when talking about this much money.

I believe if something doesn't make any sense, rather than to make some collector happy, I'd say leave it off. It's a clone. It's going to be shot, not pampered in a glass gunsafe so everyone can see it. And not see the part that breaks on it.

 

[FatBoy]

I believe if something doesn't make any sense, rather than to make some collector happy, I'd say leave it off. It's a clone. It's going to be shot, not pampered in a glass gunsafe so everyone can see it. And not see the part that breaks on it.

Agreed. You see the deletion or modification of stuff that was tried and abandon in each generation. For a pure clone 100% correct may be the ultimate goal but for most of us, visually the same is acceptable. Funny thing about that though. we each have our own idea of what's close enough.

 

[sandwarrior]

Agreed. You see the deletion or modification of stuff that was tried and abandon in each generation. For a pure clone 100% correct may be the ultimate goal but for most of us, visually the same is acceptable. Funny thing about that though. we each have our own idea of what's close enough.

I do agree that getting as close as possible with a clone is the goal. But, when a part breaks, you don't want that on there. I have to be clear, that leaving one part off or another isn't acceptable if it's doable. The propensity to, "ah this don't matter, then that don't matter," kind of thinking needs to be curbed. We still want to get it as "right" as possible without detriment to the project.

 

[FatBoy]

I do agree that getting as close as possible with a clone is the goal. But, when a part breaks, you don't want that on there. I have to be clear, that leaving one part off or another isn't acceptable if it's doable. The propensity to, "ah this don't matter, then that don't matter," kind of thinking needs to be curbed. We still want to get it as "right" as possible without detriment to the project.

That's why I left the Remington extractor in. I know a few end users personally and they hated them. So I took their advice and left the stock M700 extractor. To me personally, this takes nothing away from the build. That said, I do appreciate those here who have the patience and will to source all the tiny parts and research the details to get it exactly right. I just like to shoot 'em

 

[Triggered]

I hate having to make this post and I don't want to talk shit about a gunsmith, but I need to show the work Alan Brown is currently putting out. Many people have been happy with his Mk13 builds over the years, but this has changed in the past year or so. Multiple people have contacted me regarding the quality of his builds and there's definitely issues with them. So much so that everyone had to send their Alan builds to other gunsmiths in order to be fixed. I'm not sure what's happened to Alan, but I hope he can improve his quality and regain our trust/confidence.

This is not a shit post, I just want my fellow collectors to see the work that coming out of Alan's shop. Money doesn't grow on trees and you should always do your due diligence when selecting a gunsmith for your build. I don't want to start any fights, so I'm not going to say who is currently rebuilding this Alan Brown built Mk13 Mod 2. Until Alan is able to turn his build quality around, I won't be able to recommend him as a gunsmith. There are some great builders out there, I highly suggest looking to them if you need to complete a build.

Lets start with the receiver, which was never trued. It's common practice for gunsmiths to true the receiver, chase the threads and lap the bolt lugs, etc. However, none of that work was done on this receiver, even though it was supposed to have been done. The finish is also subpar and appears to have discoloring or runs in the finish.

Next up is the barrel, which was especially bad. My friend said the rifle shot very poorly and that's what really tipped him off to have the rifle checked out by another gunsmith. Alan only cut the front part of the barrel, he didn't remove ANY material from the chamber end. In fact, some of the numbers Lilja stamped on the face of that end are still visible! I've seen this on a few of his other builds, but I've never heard of another gunsmith doing this. A barrel should always be cut at both ends of the blank.

Since the barrel was only shortened from the muzzle end of the blank, this led to another problem. When the barrel is only cut from the muzzle end, you end up with a larger outer diameter at that end. This problem doesn't occur with a properly cut blank that had material removed from both ends. Because the outer diameter was larger towards the barrel's muzzle end, it caused the barrel to come into contact with the nightvision front rail.

This contact led to poor accuracy and scratched the hell out of the barrel. Alan knew about this mistake because he used a dremel tool to remove metal from the underside of the front rail..... and then colored the bare metal with a sharpie marker. After all this extra "work," the barrel was still contacting the front rail!

The crown/threads were poorly cut and the custom thread protector is an absolute joke. The protective cover has 2 very shallow threads cut into it, so it doesn't do too much protecting when it doesn't stay in place.

This is not a good way to run a business. I don't have any problems with the man living and enjoying his life, I just have a problem with the unprofessional attitude towards his customers. There's been a lot of lies, broken promises, no communication and shoddy craftsmanship. All he has to do is update his customers and put out quality work in a timely manner.

The market for custom built rifles has absolutely exploded over the past decade and a simple Google search puts people in contact with dozens of amazing gunsmiths. There is absolutely no reason why anyone has to wait 2+ years for a build, with no communication and terrible quality. I get texts and emails from people every single week asking me if I've heard from Alan and we've seen people ask the same question across a few forums.

Even if he's older and not in the best health, the business problems he has can easily be remedied, but apparently he's just choosing not to do anything about it. I've personally sent 50+ people over to him for Mk13 builds, I had the trust and confidence in him to take care of my friends and customers. I also waited 2 years for my rifles be built and I got sick of the runaround, so I asked for my parts back a few months ago. I can't in good conscience recommend him for builds.

I hope you guys find this information useful and I hope Alan is able to turn his shop around. Do not wait 2+ years for a build with this type of work!

Usually watch this thread like a damn hawk; escapes my mind for a few weeks and come back to see this shit.

Not a great feeling knowing this guy has had all my stuff for 2.5 years and probably looks the exact same.

Emails sent, phone calls made. I'm tired of waiting on this guy, especially for something like this. I'm getting my shit back if it's not too late.

He erk'd me off a while back simply with how he was running his business, or lack of it, and now knowing the quality of his "finished product" is truly absolute garbage I am done letting this slide by.

Fingers were crossed, but gloves are off now.

 

[USMCSGT0331]

Usually watch this thread like a damn hawk; escapes my mind for a few weeks and come back to see this shit.

Not a great feeling knowing this guy has had all my stuff for 2.5 years and probably looks the exact same.

Emails sent, phone calls made. I'm tired of waiting on this guy, especially for something like this. I'm getting my shit back if it's not too late.

He erk'd me off a while back simply with how he was running his business, or lack of it, and now knowing the quality of his "finished product" is truly absolute garbage I am done letting this slide by.

Fingers were crossed, but gloves are off now.

Good luck trying to get the parts back, it's next to impossible to get in touch with Alan on a good day. A bunch of people have contacted me over the past few days asking if I've heard from Alan (last time I talked to him was last fall), everyone wants their parts back, but can't reach him. Hopefully he won't slap a bunch of crap together and start charging people

 

[sandwarrior]

That's why I left the Remington extractor in. I know a few end users personally and they hated them. So I took their advice and left the stock M700 extractor. To me personally, this takes nothing away from the build. That said, I do appreciate those here who have the patience and will to source all the tiny parts and research the details to get it exactly right. I just like to shoot 'em

I'll say that while appearing chincy, it's always capable if the load is within what the rifle will shoot. For me hard extractions were always because of hot loads, not the extraction system on a 700.

I'm not certain, but the early military 300 Win Mags used hot, hot loads in the form of the -A191. Those had a LOT of difficult extractions. This may have been why the extraction system was changed. Within that community, many calls for going to the Winchester classic (pre-64 style) with the claw. Yes, it may be better, but now you have to feed from a mag. That got overridden. The result was I believe the Sako style extractor. What cloners are looking for when they buy a clone.

I will add on this argument about how close to get a clone to the original, if someone where to buy a clone based on original or accepted parts during the era that model was active, then yes, I'd say make the effort to get it 100% if possible. That way, someone knows they got a clone, but it's as true to the model that was used as possible. These are pretty much show guns for representation.

As far as using a clone to shoot vintage or something, I think 90% of the basics have to be there. Action and barrel have to be of that style and era. Scope and stock have to be also of a given era. You can't be shooting vintage with a brand new S&B because....well, it's a scope. It's gotta be what they had in that era. But, having a pin that isn't reliable or some other doo-dad part that broke alot then isn't going to make or break a vintage shoot. As long as what breaks is not a safety issue.

 

[mallen45]

Just out of curiosity what was Alan charging for the builds?

 

[USMCSGT0331]

Just out of curiosity what was Alan charging for the builds?

Currently, way too much for not enough

 

[mallen45]

Sounds about like it.

 

[USMCSGT0331]

I have some great news for everyone who is building a Mod 3 (it's pretty much a Mod 0, but with a Mk11 silencer), my buddy found an original barrel and it still has the collar that was made/installed by Crane armorers. This friend works at a CNC shop and they're in the process of reverse engineering these collars for us clone guys. He just made some jigs and is going to work on making a few prototypes. He's making them out of the same stainless steel the Lilja barrels are made from, so everything will be homogeneous.

We're not sure if he's just going to sell the collar piece or offer a service to have it correctly mounted to the customer's barrel blank. Either way, these will be the only 100% correct barrel collars on the market. Also, if anyone needs a stock, shoot me a message, I have a few left.

First pic shows the Mod 3 barrel with a new Lilja blank, second pic shows the jigs he just made

 

[USMCsean]

I just received my Mod 5 from a guy who was also connected with the program. He looks to put Alan's work to shame. I also notice that some people say that they have the correct profile, but in looking at what they post, I do not believe it to be correct and from looking at a lot of photos of real guns, it to be correct. If you look at crisp, clear photos, you will see it too. If you look at a lot of the reproduced and mutiple copied pics on the internet, the detail gets lost in the degradation of the photo. I included a picture of the correct profile to show the difference.

 

[mallen45]

I just received my Mod 5 from a guy who was also connected with the program. He looks to put Alan's work to shame. I also notice that some people say that they have the correct profile, but in looking at what they post, I do not believe it to be correct and from looking at a lot of photos of real guns, it to be correct. If you look at crisp, clear photos, you will see it too. If you look at a lot of the reproduced and mutiple copied pics on the internet, the detail gets lost in the degradation of the photo. I included a picture of the correct profile to show the difference.

View attachment 7298188

View attachment 7298192

Is your smith taking builds or just doing a little on the side for folks he knows?

 

[nn8734]

I just received my Mod 5 from a guy who was also connected with the program. He looks to put Alan's work to shame. I also notice that some people say that they have the correct profile, but in looking at what they post, I do not believe it to be correct and from looking at a lot of photos of real guns, it to be correct. If you look at crisp, clear photos, you will see it too. If you look at a lot of the reproduced and mutiple copied pics on the internet, the detail gets lost in the degradation of the photo. I included a picture of the correct profile to show the difference.

View attachment 7298192

I noticed the non bead blasted portion of your barrel extends well beyond the notches/pin area in the direction of the action...I haven’t seen any mod 5 with that feature.

Mine and the mod 5’s pictured in the hands of US service personnel all show the bead blasted portion of the barrel extends nearly to the pin such that when the suppressor is installed, only a very small sliver of unfinished stainless barrel is showing.

Was that a personal choice or did your smith state that is correct?

Here is mine, for example

Here is one at Ft Benning circa 2009ish

 

[Pinmaster]

All this Alan Brown shoddy work makes me question my build from him... He was the "go to" guy. Sad to see the recent examples of his work.

 

[USMCSGT0331]

I noticed the non bead blasted portion of your barrel extends well beyond the notches/pin area in the direction of the action...I haven’t seen any mod 5 with that feature.

M and the mod 5’s pictured in the hands of US service personnel all show the bead blasted portion of the barrel extends nearly to the pin such that when the suppressor is installed, only a very small sliver of unfinished stainless barrel is showing.

Was that a personal choice or did your smith state that is correct?

Here is mine, for exampleView attachment 7298240
Here is one at Ft Benning circa 2009ish
View attachment 7298241

A buddy of mine has a real Mod 5 barrel, it's bead blasted, then it has a section with machining marks (similar to what's seen on Schneider M40xx barrels) and bead blasting, then finally the polishing to the muzzle. If USMCsean's barrel had some deeper machining marks in the section behind the index pin, it would perfectly match my buddy's barrel. If it were my gun, I'd be extremely happy with the way it turned out, I wouldn't change a thing!

SMGLee has some great pics of a Mod 5 on other forums, that rifle has the bead blasting up to the index pin, exactly as you just talked about. That's 2 slight variations for a legit Mod 5 barrel, go with either, both are correct.

 

[USMCsean]

I have pics that show this profile on issued guns. I have compared it with a rack full of these, and is spot on. I wish I could share the pictures that I have. I am not.

I also have seen the earlier profile going back close to the Mk11 suppressor, as you have questioned. I supposed I should have stated that it wasn't THE only profile. It came out that way, and I am definitely wrong for portraying it that way. The goal of my build was to have a "Stiller Mod" gun built. This was the profile that was used on those. I have also seen the same profile used on earlier guns that didn't have the Stiller Mods on them.

I'd really be interested in knowing why the change occurred. Any idea on that @USMCSGT0331?

 

[Steel head]

I just received my Mod 5 from a guy who was also connected with the program. He looks to put Alan's work to shame. I also notice that some people say that they have the correct profile, but in looking at what they post, I do not believe it to be correct and from looking at a lot of photos of real guns, it to be correct. If you look at crisp, clear photos, you will see it too. If you look at a lot of the reproduced and mutiple copied pics on the internet, the detail gets lost in the degradation of the photo. I included a picture of the correct profile to show the difference.

View attachment 7298188

View attachment 7298192

I noticed the non bead blasted portion of your barrel extends well beyond the notches/pin area in the direction of the action...I haven’t seen any mod 5 with that feature.

M and the mod 5’s pictured in the hands of US service personnel all show the bead blasted portion of the barrel extends nearly to the pin such that when the suppressor is installed, only a very small sliver of unfinished stainless barrel is showing.

Was that a personal choice or did your smith state that is correct?

Here is mine, for exampleView attachment 7298240
Here is one at Ft Benning circa 2009ish
View attachment 7298241

very nice looking rifles!!!

 

[spooledup]

And now it's time for the cutaway picture of the proper profile......

 

[nn8734]

A buddy of mine has a real Mod 5 barrel, it's bead blasted, then it has a section with machining marks (similar to what's seen on Schneider M40xx barrels) and bead blasting, then finally the polishing to the muzzle. If USMCsean's barrel had some deeper machining marks in the section behind the index pin, it would perfectly match my buddy's barrel. If it were my gun, I'd be extremely happy with the way it turned out, I wouldn't change a thing!

SMGLee has some great pics of a Mod 5 on other forums, that rifle has the bead blasting up to the index pin, exactly as you just talked about. That's 2 slight variations for a legit Mod 5 barrel, go with either, both are correct.

Interesting, thanks for the information. I look at SMGLee’s pics frequently (he’s a hell of a photographer) but wasn’t sure if the bead blasting pattern on USMCSean’s was correct or not (suspected it wasn’t) so appreciate the clarification.

I have pics that show this profile on issued guns. I have compared it with a rack full of these, and is spot on. I wish I could share the pictures that I have. I am not.

I also have seen the earlier profile going back close to the Mk11 suppressor, as you have questioned. I supposed I should have stated that it wasn't THE only profile. It came out that way, and I am definitely wrong for portraying it that way. The goal of my build was to have a "Stiller Mod" gun built. This was the profile that was used on those. I have also seen the same profile used on earlier guns that didn't have the Stiller Mods on them.

I'd really be interested in knowing why the change occurred. Any idea on that @USMCSGT0331?

USMCsean, it looks great, sorry I didn’t convey that earlier...Did you have the rifle built without the mk11 can or is it just not in the picture?

 

[USMCsean]

The guy who profiled my barrel has the CNC program, the actual dimensional drawing, and a set of go/no go gages. So I did not have to have my Mk11 can for him to profile the barrel.

 

[Samson-dogg]

 

[USMCsean]

That profile makes me sad.

 

[Samson-dogg]

View attachment 7298444

That was my barrel from Allen Brown. Yes I need a complete new barrel and yes I’m running the MK11 can but only on that barrel. God knows what damage may occur. I was referred to Chris Higgins at Red Bull armory to replace the barrel. He’s going to do it right. I’m having him completely redo the build. I’m out 1k plus shipping from Allen. Then 400 for a new Lilja barrel. With shipping and all probably 1800-2000. Not the end of the world but 2 years waiting for it to only have to send it away again before firing one round totally sucks. It has to be right though. It is what it is.

 

[Samson-dogg]

I specifically asked him to taper the barrel. I heard some smiths did this step profile. I asked him to please taper it. Yet here it is.

 

[mallen45]

That was my barrel from Allen Brown. Yes I need a complete new barrel and yes I’m running the MK11 can but only on that barrel. God knows what damage may occur. I was referred to Chris Higgins at Red Bull armory to replace the barrel. He’s going to do it right. I’m having him completely redo the build. I’m out 1k plus shipping from Allen. Then 400 for a new Lilja barrel. With shipping and all probably 1800-2000. Not the end of the world but 2 years waiting for it to only have to send it away again before firing one round totally sucks. It has to be right though. It is what it is.

I’m hearing some solid things coming out of Red Bull. I wish they had a website to check out. I’m planning on having a convo with them about my MK13 build. Thanks for sharing your misfortunes with everyone. That’s a tough one to come across. Hopefully this wakes up a bunch of those who have been waiting on Allen for some time now with builds sitting on some shelf for 10-18 months.

 

[nn8734]

I specifically asked him to taper the barrel. I heard some smiths did this step profile. I asked him to please taper it. Yet here it is.

So sorry you have had to deal with that shit. Alan has essentially flushed his legacy of a lifetime’s worth of work down the drain in these past few years or so.

The stepped profile may also render using the Mk11 suppressor a no-go. The last inch or so of the barrel muzzle has to be .75” in diameter for a length of 1.1875” to engage with mounting lugs inside the front end of the can. Not sure if that final step will facilitate mounting.

Hope you can get it properly rebarreled and shooting before long.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

This is unfortunate. Anyone know the reason for the drop in quality?

 

[ilikebmxbikes]

This is unfortunate. Anyone know the reason for the drop in quality?

from my observation, the drop in quality first began to show with communication / commitment to deadlines then to actual work. Its all unfortunate. All of us in this thread are brought together for our shared enthusiasm of mk13's and its sad to see anyone get burnt in our community - unintentional, health related, or not.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

from my observation, the drop in quality first began to show with communication / commitment to deadlines then to actual work. Its all unfortunate. All of us in this thread are brought together for our shared enthusiasm of mk13's and its sad to see anyone get burnt in our community - unintentional, health related, or not.

Thats what I mean tho, I just dont understand the drop in quality of the actual work. Does his health condition have mental side effects?
Either way, Mr Obermeyer hung up the gloves when his health went downhill.. looks like Mr Brown should follow suit
ETA not trying to be harsh or anything, it just doesnt make a lot of sense someone who knows how to do something correctly would decide to do a half @ssed job all the sudden. Is he subcontracting the work out to someone else?

 

[cherokeefan03]

I'll say that while appearing chincy, it's always capable if the load is within what the rifle will shoot. For me hard extractions were always because of hot loads, not the extraction system on a 700.

I'm not certain, but the early military 300 Win Mags used hot, hot loads in the form of the -A191. Those had a LOT of difficult extractions. This may have been why the extraction system was changed. Within that community, many calls for going to the Winchester classic (pre-64 style) with the claw. Yes, it may be better, but now you have to feed from a mag. That got overridden. The result was I believe the Sako style extractor. What cloners are looking for when they buy a clone.

The SAKO extractor was replaced by the M16 extractor in later builds due to issues the sako had.

Just out of curiosity what was Alan charging for the builds?

He charged me $1000. I'm not sure other peoples rates but I'm glad I finally got a refund with my parts.

 

[sandwarrior]

The SAKO extractor was replaced by the M16 extractor in later builds due to issues the sako had.

...

That's what I understand as well. I also heard (as I have not owned one...any version) that it works pretty well. Which is why I wanted one on my 7 WSM that I broke the lower face boss that holds the extractor for a CRPF. Too many mixed reviews on the Sako extractor.

 

[USMCSGT0331]

Time to call the gunsmith!

 

[ilikebmxbikes]

Time to call the gunsmith!

green precursor rifle is so stylish

 

[Vargmat]

Time to call the gunsmith!

That is one serious collection of quality parts! Damn!

 

[Random Guy]

Very nice collection of parts(!). That's the 4 primary generations of NSW 300 WinMag rifles.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Thats what I mean tho, I just dont understand the drop in quality of the actual work. Does his health condition have mental side effects?
Either way, Mr Obermeyer hung up the gloves when his health went downhill.. looks like Mr Brown should follow suit
ETA not trying to be harsh or anything, it just doesnt make a lot of sense someone who knows how to do something correctly would decide to do a half @ssed job all the sudden. Is he subcontracting the work out to someone else?

Sadly, I have seen craftsmen/machinists/toolmakers and similar craftsmen whose health -- physical or mental -- has caused their work to slip and they really don't know it. And so don't know to hang things up. They are going through motions and muscle memory at times. But are missing the small details that separated them from the pack for their careers. The end results are often what we seem to be seeing above.

At the peak of his career, Alan produced everything the we are trying to replicate here. So maybe it's appropriate to stop the bashing and do what we can to get parts back... find the next generation of 'smiths who can continue his legacy. And remember that if he had not, at one time, been at the top of his game, none of these guns would have existed. And none of the guys doing them now would have been doing them.

As I have been a proponent of sending guns to Alan (along with 0331), I will say 'sorry' for sending people to a place that has not worked out. I am pleased my rifle turned out on time and great... and feel bad for you whose rifles did not.

But instead of trashing the master... maybe we should be asking whether there is anything he needs or how we can honor his legacy instead of destroying it over a handful of guns that he probably should not have taken on. But did. Last I checked, noone in this thread 'needs' a Mk13 Mod-anything. It's something we want. But our life does not depend on it... it's a luxury and a fine one at that. So instead of complaining that our special rifle is not ready... maybe we should be trying not to add to someone's stress level. Wreck his legacy, etc.

I thought 0331's post was honest, clear and laid out a good case that says that a new generation of builders should become the go-to guys. So is the subsequent pile-on needed? Ok, we can see that things are not as they should be on recent guns. It was timely and, sadly, necessary to let people know where things stand.

So get your parts back. Politely and respectfully. And I would add... with some sensitivity to a guy who may be going through some tough times.

Then move on.

Without Alan, you'd have nothing to base your builds on. We'd have no thread. Stocks would be just surplus junk with no 'legend' behind them. You'd have nothing without the guy who made them great in the first place. None of us would be building these if they weren't amazing pieces of the gunsmith's art to begin with.

Whatever happened recently should not diminish a lifetime of accomplishments... or shape Alan's legacy. Get your parts back. FInd new builders, especially the ones who stand on the shoulders of the masters and learned all there is to learn... and took those skills further. Get your guns done. And recognize that whoever re-built them, the DNA of a master is still all over them. And will be long after he has passed from the scene.

Just my two percent of a dollar.... Drive on. But be nice about it. Alan Brown earned that over a lifetime.

Sirhr

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

@sirhrmechanic to be clear I wasnt tryna bash em in any way. He made sure the right stuff was in the hands of the tip of the spear snipers that gave their blood sweat and possibly lives so we could enjoy shooting those same weapons at inanimate targets instead of enemies on our home soil.. What I was getting at is it seems like hes just handing the work off to someone who dont know what they're doing? I could be wrong tho and perhaps you're right that he himself is still doing the 'smithing but cutting corners knowingly or unknowingly..

 

[FatBoy]

Of all the disappointment and/or sadness in this thread as of late, I'm excited that a new source for an obscure part may be popping up. Almost no chance I'll spring for a mk11 can BUT if I do at least there is hope now.

 

[ilikebmxbikes]

Sadly, I have seen craftsmen/machinists/toolmakers and similar craftsmen whose health -- physical or mental -- has caused their work to slip and they really don't know it. And so don't know to hang things up. They are going through motions and muscle memory at times. But are missing the small details that separated them from the pack for their careers. The end results are often what we seem to be seeing above.

At the peak of his career, Alan produced everything the we are trying to replicate here. So maybe it's appropriate to stop the bashing and do what we can to get parts back... find the next generation of 'smiths who can continue his legacy. And remember that if he had not, at one time, been at the top of his game, none of these guns would have existed. And none of the guys doing them now would have been doing them.

As I have been a proponent of sending guns to Alan (along with 0331), I will say 'sorry' for sending people to a place that has not worked out. I am pleased my rifle turned out on time and great... and feel bad for you whose rifles did not.

But instead of trashing the master... maybe we should be asking whether there is anything he needs or how we can honor his legacy instead of destroying it over a handful of guns that he probably should not have taken on. But did. Last I checked, noone in this thread 'needs' a Mk13 Mod-anything. It's something we want. But our life does not depend on it... it's a luxury and a fine one at that. So instead of complaining that our special rifle is not ready... maybe we should be trying not to add to someone's stress level. Wreck his legacy, etc.

I thought 0331's post was honest, clear and laid out a good case that says that a new generation of builders should become the go-to guys. So is the subsequent pile-on needed? Ok, we can see that things are not as they should be on recent guns. It was timely and, sadly, necessary to let people know where things stand.

So get your parts back. Politely and respectfully. And I would add... with some sensitivity to a guy who may be going through some tough times.

Then move on.

Without Alan, you'd have nothing to base your builds on. We'd have no thread. Stocks would be just surplus junk with no 'legend' behind them. You'd have nothing without the guy who made them great in the first place. None of us would be building these if they weren't amazing pieces of the gunsmith's art to begin with.

Whatever happened recently should not diminish a lifetime of accomplishments... or shape Alan's legacy. Get your parts back. FInd new builders, especially the ones who stand on the shoulders of the masters and learned all there is to learn... and took those skills further. Get your guns done. And recognize that whoever re-built them, the DNA of a master is still all over them. And will be long after he has passed from the scene.

Just my two percent of a dollar.... Drive on. But be nice about it. Alan Brown earned that over a lifetime.

Sirhr

I don't think people are bashing Alan personally or discrediting his work at Crane or post Crane when he was making beautiful mk13's for civilian customers. No one can question that and as unacceptable as some of the recent works are, it does not deminish his accomplishments or 'legacy'.

That being said I don't think people are selfish when they are upset after spending thousands of dollars on parts and tremendous amounts of time hunting and finding out of production stuff and then waiting a years only to get back with questionable or sub par work and have to get new barrels and start over. The culmination of time and money wasted is a reasonable thing for anyone to be upset about and an expression of that should not be interpreted as a bash against Alan but more as a signal for others to get their stuff back so hopefully they can avoid the same outcome.

 

[teufelhunden]

Well, I finished work early today and decided to dive into this thread again and reread from the beginning. There are a lot of good take-aways and there are definitely some amazing builds that were accomplished over the past few years.

Now I have the Mod 0 fever. I may have to keep a look out to see if a build surfaces for sale in the near future.

 

[USMCSGT0331]

Using these guys for Mod 3 builds, one of them is extremely close to my sequential Kalispel cases!

 

[Random Guy]

Neat, is you case marked Mk 14 Mod 3 or just the serial #?

I'm using an E-prefix for mine too, but its E6364xxx. It was a good deal. I ordered the Lilja barrel this week, so I'm still quite a ways off...
(The stock may look familiar, gray one painted tan).

 

[USMCSGT0331]

Neat, is you case marked Mk 14 Mod 3 or just the serial #?

I'm using an E-prefix for mine too, but its E6364xxx. It was a good deal. I ordered the Lilja barrel this week, so I'm still quite a ways off...
(The stock may look familiar, gray one painted tan).

It's not marked Mod 3, but it breaks up the monotony of using tons of C prefix receivers for Mod 0/3 builds, lol.

I remember that stock, the dope card on the cheekpiece is awesome! That's going to be an amazing build once you get it put together! Which gunsmith are you going to be using?

 

[ilikebmxbikes]

Finally took my mk13 mod 0 built by RWS out for sight in and mild stretch. Rifle shot beautifully out to 1000 yards. Looking forward to taking it further.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Finally took my mk13 mod 0 built by RWS out for sight in and mild stretch. Rifle shot beautifully out to 1000 yards. Looking forward to taking it further.

Very nice. What loads are you planning on, and are you gone get the Mk 11 can in the future?

Have any yall experienced any accuracy change with the can on/off? Seems like sometimes a suppressor will help accuracy a bit, I suppose acting like a tuner.